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Natalie P towers, with a twist

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
After a lot of reading and advice from the forums, I've decided to start out my 5.1 DIY surround with a set of Natalie P floor standing left and right channels. Eventually, these may move to the rear if I decide to build Dayton TMWWs for L/R and a Dayton WTMW center. Also, an SDX15 sub is in the works.

I plan to build the ported 50L version of the Nat Ps, but I'd like to put a twist on the design or maybe a bend. I'm reasonably experienced in woodworking, though this would be my first try at panel bending. This can be accomplished by form pressing thin laminates into thicker panels, by saw-scoring MDF or Baltic Birch, by stacking polylam walls, or buying manufactured bendable ply. I'm not married to these plans, so I am open to creative ideas other than the standard rectangle.





Bending techniques

form bending


scored


bendable ply


translam




Questions:

1) The Swerve preserves the intended Nat P baffle dimensions, but the Vibe and the Wave are instead widen to 10 on average with curved edges. Will this affect the sonic qualities of the speaker?
2) Does anyone have experience with these bending techniques? Any advice?
3) Some building the 50L towers seem to prefer a higher tune (6 long, 3 diameter port = ? tune) to the designers recommendation of an 11 long, 3 diameter port for a 28Hz tune. Any thoughts on that?
4) Which design do you prefer?
post #2 of 13
Swerve? Vibe? Wave? what is that? edit ... I missed the link in the last few sentences...

I used all the bending techniques (in carpentry applications). For speakers I would not use the bendable ply or the scoring. Translam or make a form is what I'd go with.

I also prefer a highter tune and leave the bass duties out of the mains - no experience with the NatP's.

I need to find a solution for on wall and in column speakers to build...thinking of the Nat's with the no BSC cross over. What I can't find is if the baffle step applis to a complete and properly treated room and front wall (effectively increasing the distance the speaker thinks it is from the wall)
post #3 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by two-rocks View Post

Swerve? Vibe? Wave? what is that?
I also prefer a highter tune and leave the bass duties out of the mains - no experience with the NatP's.

Why build ported main speakers for home theater applications?

Phase lead from the high-pass function means ported designs integrate best with a sub-woofer when crossed over a healthy distance (octave?) above their roll-off. Since you need to throw away the lower frequencies you aren't getting any benefits from the ports.
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post

Why build ported main speakers for home theater applications?

Phase lead from the high-pass function means ported designs integrate best with a sub-woofer when crossed over a healthy distance (octave?) above their roll-off. Since you need to throw away the lower frequencies you aren't getting any benefits from the ports.

Thanks for all of the responses so far. Keep'em comin'. If I were to make this a sealed 50L tower, would I still have any roll-off advantage versus a sealed 30L bookshelf version?
post #5 of 13
Another option would be fiberglass. But making big long curves would require very nicely built molds and likely quite a bit of fill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post

Why build ported main speakers for home theater applications?

Phase lead from the high-pass function means ported designs integrate best with a sub-woofer when crossed over a healthy distance (octave?) above their roll-off. Since you need to throw away the lower frequencies you aren't getting any benefits from the ports.

Ported vs. Sealed is an decision the OP will have to make. There are pro's and con's to each. Personally, I'd go ported for the times I want to listen at low volumes without having to turn on my sub amp. Either way, there's no wrong answer, just an acceptance of trade-offs.
post #6 of 13
I've found its real nice to have speakers with decent extension so that I can just use them without bothering the neighbors with a sub, real deep bass can bother folks at very low volumes so just turning the gain down doesn't help, you need to cut out the deep bass altogether.
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
I think I'm leaning toward the Nat P Wave and possibly done in verticle polylam layout. In that case, the finish would be polyurethane over BB verticle layers on the wavy sides and a nice complementary veneer on the baffle. I just wonder if all of those verticle wavy lines would accentuate the curves or be too distracting? If I'm not going to see the polylam layers, I may opt for one of the other methods.

Rough dimensions would be as follows: H40" x W10" x D12", curve wavelength 20" and amplitude 1/2" --> If the sidewall were a soundwave, that corresponds to a audio frequency of 675Hz! Also an internal volume of 56L before driver, bracing and port subtraction.

Also, a higher tune or even a sealed enclosure for the mains may be easier to mate with that SDX15 sub in the planning stages. Any suggestions as to how best to tune and cross mains to the sub? My neighbors are all relatively young and enjoy HT and audio, so no problem with the sub.

Thanks for all of the advice!

post #8 of 13
Its really too early to tell, I wouldn't worry about, mate them when you finish the system, it shouldn't be hard, you can't predict these variables now. I'd just do the Nat P's sealed.
post #9 of 13
Thread Starter 
The Natlie P Wave build begins!!

To summarize the final build plan:
Design: Natalie P MTM
Cabinet: floor standing 50 liter (10" x 12" x 40" exterior)
Waves: wavy sidewalls formed with bendable ply
Port tuning: to be determined
Prefinish: Bondo seams and open grain, sand and seal
Finish: piano black lacquer (if I can figure it out)


Step 1: transfer waves to template
I laid out verticle lines for front baffle and rear wall on 1/4" hardboard as follows: midline left to midline right margins 8 1/2", as well as 1/2" deviation line to left and 0.5" deviation to right for both walls. Then at 5" intervals, I marked out points along the wave at left dev line --> midline --> right dev line --> midline, and so on. Finally, I used an adjustable ship curve tool ($20 at Rockler.com) to trace the curves based on the layout points. (this will all become clearer in the Step 3 picture)




Step 2: cut out template
Since my bandsaw conveniently fried just before this project began, I resorted to my jigsaw -- very slow going and not as accurate, but it gave me a decent rough result. I then sanded to my lines using a drillpress drum-sanding kit ($12 at Rockler.com).




Step 3: transfer template to 3/4" MDF, cut
I applied my template to MDF board with double-sided tape, traced the outline, and cut out by jigsaw. Since I already had a relatively smooth template curve, there was no need for sanding. I just used a bearing-guided flush router bit on a router table. The bearing moves smoothly along the template, while the flush bit duplicates the curve in the MDF baffles.
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post #10 of 13
Woah. Those are the baffles?

Looks cool, i just hope the odd baffle dimensions don't meddle with anything. There are programs and formulas to compute optimal baffle dimensions and layout which I'm willing to bet you did not consult first.

I'd love to see this finished however. Way to go and good luck. Glad you discarded slotting too; it's very involved and you'd have to fill the slots with something after the fact. The bendable ply is news to me, what do they make it out of? High compliance particle board or some synthetic stuff? Either way it doesn't seem dense enough for this, how could it be?
post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 
Step 4: baffle driver cut-outs
I laid out the driver midpoints on each baffle based on the original designer's plans on HTguide.com:




Then using my handheld router with a Jasper circle jig, a pin placed in the desired radius jig hole and also into the midpoint of each driver location. Mounting plate recesses are routed first. Then, the cutouts are are routed through the baffles. The appropriate router bit for this operation is called a spiral upcut -- best source: MLCS.




Here's how they turned out...
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post #12 of 13
Thread Starter 
Okay, I'm going to jump ahead a few steps, then come back to explain the details later...

I've wired the crossover boards and assembled one of the towers, except one of the wavy sides. I have to keep it open to stuff insulation, install the x-overs and to wire everything up. I've learned a lot from the first one, so the second one will go together much easier. That will be the one I chronicle step-by-step with pics.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Will I need post-assembly access to the x-over compartment? I'm open to any advice.
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post #13 of 13
That cabinet is going to look killer and original when it gets finished. Looks like things are progressing nicely. How was the attachment of the side panel to the baffle and rear panel? It was just glued and clamped correct? Did it go relatively smooth or did you have to persuade the side panel?
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