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Samsung LED 81 Gamer Review?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Where can I find detailed info on how this unit does with motion from a game player? I'd like to grab a 46 inch since I see rainbows on DLP, yellow streaks on plasma and easily see blur on LCDs.

I'd like to know how this panel handles games compared to other LCDs, DLP and Plasma.

Thanks for any help/links.
post #2 of 21
I'm curious about this as well, is there any display for those of us who can see those defects? The 81 is still an LCD so it will probably still have motion blur.
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
Yeah I'm sure it would have some form of blur, but how much compared to others is the question.

OK so here's the info that has my confused.

http://hdguru.com/hd-guru-exclusive-...cd-102907/201/

Quote:


Samsung combines the local dimming feature with what it calls “Motion Plus,” a scanning technology that activates the horizontal rows of LEDs progressively from top to bottom to dramatically decrease motion blur in this 60Hz panel. With Motion Plus activated, the panel measured a record-setting (for LCD) 800 lines of horizontal measured resolution (using the “FPD Benchmark Software for Professional” 1080i Blu-ray Test Disc), which is 33% greater motion resolution than that of any other LCD panel tested to date including 120Hz models from Sharp and Sony. That ranks the LN-T4081F near the best set ever measured (900 lines, the soon to be reviewed Pioneer PDP-6010FD). With Motion Plus in the “off” position, resolution dropped to 550 lines, which is just short of the 600 lines of the best previously tested 60Hz LCD panels.

Should I believe that this LCD has motion as good as most Plasma units?
post #4 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynn View Post

Yeah I'm sure it would have some form of blur, but how much compared to others is the question.

OK so here's the info that has my confused.

http://hdguru.com/hd-guru-exclusive-...cd-102907/201/



Should I believe that this LCD has motion as good as most Plasma units?

Well, I can say that my current Panasonic Plasma has very little actual motion blur, the problem is that I see fringing on just about everything I do, I have even seen fringing on the Pioneer mentioned in that link so I have to rule it out as well. If that is accurate about the 81 I might just want to look into getting one, problem with that is the price of the display, I can get a 52inch LCD for the same price as the 4081 LED. It seems that if we want good motion, we either need to stick with CRT or sacrifice near perfect motion and get one of the new techs.

I would say if someone has the 81 already to let us know how it does with the Ninja Gaiden Sigma spin test.... actually sharpjunkie already did this, seach for the 71 vs 81 thread that he made, it should some real world results of how the 81 preforms. (although, lucky for him, he couldn't see the fringing and now has a 5080 Pioneer that he wouldn't give up for any LCD)

Here is sharpjunkie's topic.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=71+81
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the feedback! Still looking for more input though. Anyone else have info they could share?
post #6 of 21
i "auditioned" this tv before, its got some motion blur even with LED motion plus on...its not as bad as the new Sony's but it's not as good as the Sharps with motion. I'd say the 71 or 65 series are better, they have less blur than the 81, well thats the conclusion I came up after I auditioned them all.
post #7 of 21
I also had this tv for a little while and i thought there was a very distict ghost trail when ninja gaiden swung his sword. This was confirmed for me when i compared the sony xbr4 using the same game, needless to say i kept the sony.

Although i am very suprised about the motion resolution results from the above link, I am wondering if that test isn't somehow baised or maybe the led scanning isn't accounted for in the test. Very Interesting to say the least, and wierd to suggest that lcd motion resolution could be brought up to and past rptv levels by just changing the backlight, when everyone else thought it was pixel response. (or maybe i just did)
post #8 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

I also had this tv for a little while and i thought there was a very distict ghost trail when ninja gaiden swung his sword. This was confirmed for me when i compared the sony xbr4 using the same game, needless to say i kept the sony.

Although i am very suprised about the motion resolution results from the above link, I am wondering if that test isn't somehow baised or maybe the led scanning isn't accounted for in the test. Very Interesting to say the least, and wierd to suggest that lcd motion resolution could be brought up to and past rptv levels by just changing the backlight, when everyone else thought it was pixel response. (or maybe i just did)

Pixel response has nothing to do about motion blur. Blur is caused by the sample and hold nature of the LCD, the LED motion plus pulses the backlight and refreshes you retina better than the old backlight. Flicker that you see on a CRT is the main reason that they don't blur, it refreshes your retina. Rad through these two threads to get a better idea of how it works.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=960548

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=853744
post #9 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Pixel response has nothing to do about motion blur. Blur is caused by the sample and hold nature of the LCD, the LED motion plus pulses the backlight and refreshes you retina better than the old backlight. Flicker that you see on a CRT is the main reason that they don't blur, it refreshes your retina. Rad through these two threads to get a better idea of how it works.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=960548

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=853744

Then howcome i saw ghosting on the 81 but not on the xbr4?

Maybe the 81 was just brighter so it was more pronouced.
post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

Then howcome i saw ghosting on the 81 but not on the xbr4?

Maybe the 81 was just brighter so it was more pronouced.

Pixel response time deals with ghosting not motion blur, what you saw was ghosting and it seems that all the newer displays still have problems with this. (even the XBR4 with dark colors like in Call of Duty 4) the new 2008 displays are going to have true 4 ms displays that should take care of this problem.

XBR4 blur topic
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...tion+blur+xbr4
post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynn View Post

Thanks for the feedback! Still looking for more input though. Anyone else have info they could share?

I have the Samsung 4669, so this is a little bit outside what you were asking, but I get absolutely no motion blur at all. I play a lot of PlayStation 3 and XBOX360, and this set has blown away my previous 60" SXRD. I am extremely happy with the color reproduction and the black levels, so hopefully the 81 series is along similar lines.
post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveOP View Post

I have the Samsung 4669, so this is a little bit outside what you were asking, but I get absolutely no motion blur at all. I play a lot of PlayStation 3 and XBOX360, and this set has blown away my previous 60" SXRD. I am extremely happy with the color reproduction and the black levels, so hopefully the 81 series is along similar lines.

Hate to break it to you, but your set does have motion blur, as proven in the first link that I provided, you just don't know how to find it. In the second link I provided it mentioned the Ninja Gaiden Sigma spin test. This test is almost impossible for any display to do well on, only HD CRT sets have passed this test so far. To do this test load up the first level and fight your way until you beat the two ninja that attack you from above, now turn to face the trees and take note of how much detail you can see in the leaves, now spin the camera, if it goes out of focus, you have blur. On my old CRT I could spin the camera as fast as it could go and could not see any blur at all, all the details were locked in and never got blurry. My Plasma barely passes this test.
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Hate to break it to you, but your set does have motion blur, as proven in the first link that I provided, you just don't know how to find it. In the second link I provided it mentioned the Ninja Gaiden Sigma spin test. This test is almost impossible for any display to do well on, only HD CRT sets have passed this test so far. To do this test load up the first level and fight your way until you beat the two ninja that attack you from above, now turn to face the trees and take note of how much detail you can see in the leaves, now spin the camera, if it goes out of focus, you have blur. On my old CRT I could spin the camera as fast as it could go and could not see any blur at all, all the details were locked in and never got blurry. My Plasma barely passes this test.

Like you just said even plasmas show a little blur with this test, it's more so looking for flaws then seeing them and them actually bothering you during normal use of the TV. For me the ghost images bothered me with the 81 and were non existant with the xbr4 using ninja gaiden.
post #14 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

Like you just said even plasmas show a little blur with this test, it's more so looking for flaws then seeing them and them actually bothering you during normal use of the TV. For me the ghost images bothered me with the 81 and were non existant with the xbr4 using ninja gaiden.

Ninja Gaiden Sigma is the blur test, Call of Duty 4 has proven to be a great test for ghosting. If you want to test for ghosting load up "Charlie Don't Surf" The Helicopters will have a green trail as you move your target reticule around on a Plasma. The buildings will also show this. To test for color blur on an LCD load the "mile high club" and watch for blur around your allies. A video of this can be found in the XBR4 smearing thread so that you know what to look for.
post #15 of 21
I have read the blur thread and do know what to look for but I have only seen it a couple of times.

1. fudoh test
2. media center calibration videos of people shooting pool (this is the worst i had seen it)
3. Devil May Cry 4 (i think this is by the games design though)

But it doesn't bother me like everyone makes it sound in that thread whereas the 81 series ghosting really bothered me. I think it just goes to show that some things will bother certain people while other will bother other people. To each his own and diffrent strokes for diffrent folkes.
post #16 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Hate to break it to you, but your set does have motion blur, as proven in the first link that I provided, you just don't know how to find it. In the second link I provided it mentioned the Ninja Gaiden Sigma spin test. This test is almost impossible for any display to do well on, only HD CRT sets have passed this test so far. To do this test load up the first level and fight your way until you beat the two ninja that attack you from above, now turn to face the trees and take note of how much detail you can see in the leaves, now spin the camera, if it goes out of focus, you have blur. On my old CRT I could spin the camera as fast as it could go and could not see any blur at all, all the details were locked in and never got blurry. My Plasma barely passes this test.

If you're so nitpicky that you're looking for MotionBlur in the background of a video game on leaves, then you're more concerned about it than I am. I've been playing games on this TV since I got it, and I have not noticed anything that seemed blurry or out of place to me. I have also not had any ghosting on any of the games or movies that I have played on it. For the slimness of this TV, and the absolutely amazing PQ of it, I am extremely happy.
post #17 of 21
Thread Starter 
These replies are from people who either don't understand blur or are not aware of it in the first place. Is there anyone who is blur sensitive who has this HDTV that can comment?
post #18 of 21
sharp's 94u is the new king on the market 4ms piexl refresh time 27000 contrast ratio in from what i see on my set banding is gone
post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtwarrior View Post

sharp's 94u is the new king on the market 4ms piexl refresh time 27000 contrast ratio in from what i see on my set banding is gone

For the love of god please stop trolling threads with Sharp propaganda!
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeLTron View Post

i "auditioned" this tv before, its got some motion blur even with LED motion plus on...its not as bad as the new Sony's but it's not as good as the Sharps with motion. I'd say the 71 or 65 series are better, they have less blur than the 81, well thats the conclusion I came up after I auditioned them all.


I think there was a firmware update for the 81 that fixed the motion when you set the LED motion plus to get that 800 lines of resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjohns1997SS View Post

Very Interesting to say the least, and wierd to suggest that lcd motion resolution could be brought up to and past rptv levels by just changing the backlight, when everyone else thought it was pixel response. (or maybe i just did)

You know Sharp does the same thing, it has a 6ms response time for their 60hz sets & gets their quoted 4ms response time by turning on the quick shoot option which reduces the overall TV luminance by 30% & gets that 4ms response time.

I tested a scrolling horizontal bar with text in Ridge Racer 6 where you can speed up the scrolling by press one of the triggers & I did notice reduced bluring on the Sharp with the option on. It was very very subtle, but it was there, so yeah.
post #21 of 21
Hehe don't use Devil May Cry 4 on the PS3 as a motion blur test! The 360 version would be okay, as it uses 2X MSAA. But the PS3 version, on the other hand, uses temporal AA, which blends two frames together, and has the sideffect of creating motion blur.
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