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Sub list - Sunfire? v. PB13 Ultra, F113

post #1 of 11
2/3/08 at 6:19am
Thread Starter 
I'm was planning to get the SVS PB13-Ultra or the F113, but my Paradigm dealer was really pushing the Sunfire subs. And of course, he'd give me a pretty good discount when I'm buying 7 Paradigm Signatures and the sub.

So the Sunfires aren't listed in CraigSub's list, and I was wondering roughly where they fall? Specifically compared to the PB13 Ultra and the F113? Since I can't possibly listen to every sub on that list, it's a really helpful way to focus my time on subs I can listen to. And when I was listening to the Paradigm's, I specifically didn't push the sub (and turned it off rather quickly) so I could isolate the speakers.

I know I'm comparing sealed to ported, but so be it. And size is an issue for me as well, which is why the Sunfire is a potential option. Unless it's just not that good.

(I currently have a Sunfire Junior, which is okay, but to me is pretty mushy and not powerful enough, even in my smallish HT room. I can go to roughly 2'x2'x2' if needed.)

So I guess, for those that know/have compared, is there any comparison between the top-of-the-line Sunfire, and the PB13-Ultra/ or F113?

Thanks!
-Mark
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post #2 of 11
2/3/08 at 6:33am
Unfortunately for Sunfire fans their subs fall well short of the overall performance of either the SVS or JL. Not to say that Sunfires wont be good subs, far from it. I have owned the Signature versions fo their subs as well as the others mentioned (although not all at the same time) and choosing the JL or SVS over the Sig. would be a no-brainer. Without going into too much detail the other subs provide superior performance across the board and the JL footprint is still relatively small. The discount for the Sunfire would have to be VERY generous because the JL F112 is even a better option than the Sunfire for even less money than the 113 or SVS. I will tell you this, get ready for the Internet-Direct bandidts to guide you over to their holy-grail, the Craigsub Sub Shoot-out for "scoring" and info on a bunch of subs you didnt ask about.
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post #3 of 11
2/3/08 at 6:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgb540 View Post

Unfortunately for Sunfire fans their subs fall well short of the overall performance of either the SVS or JL. Not to say that Sunfires wont be good subs, far from it. I have owned the Signature versions fo their subs as well as the others mentioned (although not all at the same time) and choosing the JL or SVS over the Sig. would be a no-brainer. Without going into too much detail the other subs provide superior performance across the board and the JL footprint is still relatively small. The discount for the Sunfire would have to be VERY generous because the JL F112 is even a better option than the Sunfire for even less money than the 113 or SVS. I will tell you this, get ready for the Internet-Direct bandidts to guide you over to their holy-grail, the Craigsub Sub Shoot-out for "scoring" and info on a bunch of subs you didnt ask about.

Okay, thanks. That's what I figured. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't ruling a brand out unfairly.

I'll still get the PB13-Ultra or F113. Fortunately SVS has a backlog until early March, so I can pain over this decision for a couple more weeks!
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post #4 of 11
2/3/08 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgb540 View Post

The discount for the Sunfire would have to be VERY generous because the JL F112 is even a better option than the Sunfire for even less money than the 113 or SVS.

The PB13 is $1200 cheaper than the F112. I'd go for the PB13 unless space is an issue. Both JL and SVS will outperform the Sunfire by a very large margin. How much can you get the Sunfire for?
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post #5 of 11
2/3/08 at 7:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

The PB13 is $1200 cheaper than the F112. I'd go for the PB13 unless space is an issue. Both JL and SVS will outperform the Sunfire by a very large margin. How much can you get the Sunfire for?

The better Sunfire (13" one) wasn't cheap, but I think he said list was like $2K, and he would give me 20% or so off it. I didn't push hard, because I had already decided against Sunfire, but I said I'd do a little research and reconsider.

For me, the decision between the PB13 and the F113 is coming down to:

1) Which one performs better if I only have one
2) Sealed v. Ported - I'm mostly HT, so I want more "punch"
3) Vendor - Which vendor will stick by me if there are problems

It seems like #1 leans slightly towards the PB13, #2 might be a wash for my room size, and #3 is where I'm really unclear.

Sound-wise they both seem to be in the upper-eschelon, so while there are some differences (F113 is slightly better for music), I think I'd be thrilled with either one.

Anyway, sounds like the Sunfire is back off my list.
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post #6 of 11
2/3/08 at 7:25am
$1600 for a Sunfire Signiture is just not worth it considering the other better options.
If you're mostly HT, you should order the PB13 and never look back. The JL sounds a little bit more articulation than the PB13, but falls short in HT. Both companies have spectacular customer service. My vote goes to the PB13 because it's cheaper and it will it you HARD.
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post #7 of 11
2/3/08 at 7:31am
You should look at the tests that Ilkka did. Someonelse can post the link.
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post #8 of 11
2/3/08 at 7:44am
Sunfire
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....&SQ=1178450584
PB13 (20Hz)
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....&SQ=1189180431
PB13 (15Hz)
http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index....&SQ=1189180431
IIkka's test (look at the PB13 and f113's results)
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ll-2007-a.html
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post #9 of 11
2/3/08 at 7:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post

You should look at the tests that Ilkka did. Someonelse can post the link.

Not that I understand all the charts, but it looked like the PB13 outperformed the F113 a little, and the F113 might even have had some minimal distortion?

In any case, they're both great, and I'm sure anyone (including me) will be happy with either one. I'm leaning towards the PB13 though.
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post #10 of 11
2/3/08 at 8:36am
The PB13 outperformed the f113 by a huge margin down low. Here is the comparison of the PB13 in 15Hz tune (the sweet spot) and the f113
f113/PB13
40Hz :114dB/116dB
31.5Hz:110dB/113dB
25Hz: 105.5dB/111dB
20Hz: 101dB/108dB
16Hz: 96.7dB/103.5dB
12.5Hz: 91dB/93dB

It takes about 2 f113 to outperform a PB13 down low. That's NOT a little difference. Mind you that the f113 is pushing out some serious SPL for it's size. The PB13 in sealed will not outperform the f113 even though the PB13 has a much larger enclosure.
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post #11 of 11
2/3/08 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

The PB13 is $1200 cheaper than the F112. I'd go for the PB13 unless space is an issue. Both JL and SVS will outperform the Sunfire by a very large margin. How much can you get the Sunfire for?

I stand corrected. I didnt intend to include the SVS in with the price comparison of the F112 vs. F113. I should have proof read better.
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