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Denon or Yamaha for Klipsch speakers???

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
What receiver would sound better with Klipsch Speakers...Denon or Yamaha???
Specifically Denon 2808ci and Yamaha 1800???
post #2 of 24
Yamaha, without any doubt.

FYI - I was auditioning Klipsch RF-83 back in December and I had the opportunity to do so with Yamaha 3800, Onkyo 905 and Denon 2808.

With the Yamaha and Onkyo, these speakers sounded fantastic - full of detail and dynamics.

When I switched over to the Denon, all the detail and dynamics of this speaker were gone - sounded muffled.

All receivers were in pure or direct mode, thus is was not the configuration that was the diference.

Denon just sounded bad with these Klipsch speakers, as if it did not have the guts of the other two receivers.

I would not buy it even if it cost 50% of the Yamaha.
post #3 of 24
I have Klipsch RF-35 7.1 system and settled on Denon 4306. I listened to Yamaha 2600? and Pioneer Elite. The Yamaha sounded good and I actually had the Pioneer in house for two weeks. Denon just was better all around and sounded more balanced. Lots of folks will tell you not to match Yamaha with Klipsch but the new reference series is supposed to change all that. Bottom line, listen to all and then spend your money.
post #4 of 24
With respect to Dionyz, there is doubt. I have run a Yamaha receiver in my all-Klipsch system (Forte II mains, Academy, RS-3's and KG-3's) for 7 years. I have also used Sony and Denon with them. In addition, I have used NAD, Pioneer and currently Denon in a 2 channel system with KG-4's. I've owned Klipsch for almost 20 years. I have a lot of experience with various combos.

That said, I have found the Yamaha to be a decent but not perfect match with Klipsch. I used to believe that the Yamaha revealed the details in the music better than Denon but over time I've found it to be a bit too thin sounding. I'm upgrading my receiver this year and looking seriously at the Denon 3808 and Sherwood Newcastle R-972.

Here's my personal list of brands I've looked at and/or demo'd in the past year or so, in the order of personal preference:

Rotel - Sounded absolutely amazing, but feature set is lacking on receivers
NAD - Excellent match with Klipsch but new receivers are out of my price range
Denon 3808 - Excellent feature set, bass a little subdued compared to past receivers.
Sherwood Newcastle - No experience with this brand but the feature set of the upcoming R-972 is beyond amazing. I won't purchase anything until I have a chance to demo this when it's released.
Yamaha - Excellent build quality, apparently a bit warmer than past models
Pioneer Elite - Great warm sound


Finally, I always say this...No matter what any of us say the only thing that matters is how the combo sounds to YOU. Dionyz isn't wrong in his assessment. That's how it sounds to him and there's nothing wrong with that. Others will disagree with him, but we won't be any more right or wrong than he is.
post #5 of 24
Roland - With respect to Dionyz, there is doubt.

All I can tell you is what I heard.

And there was no doubt that the Denon sounded just plain bad with the Klipsch RF-83s. It had a lifeless, muddy sound.

I was using Yamaha with my KG-4 and it performed very well.

I ended up choosing Onkyo 905 to drive my RF-83, RC-64, RS-62 system.
It sound very good. Very detailed and dynamic sound, with a tight bass.

I respect your opinion and everyone else. That is why there is no substitute for audition
post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionyz View Post

Roland - With respect to Dionyz, there is doubt.

All I can tell you is what I heard.

And there was no doubt that the Denon sounded just plain bad with the Klipsch RF-83s. It had a lifeless, muddy sound.


That's why I have my last paragraph in the original post, where I said you weren't wrong in your assessment. There's no doubt for you, but that can only be said for you. You can only go by what your ears tell you but pardon me while I state the obvious...your ears are not the same as mine or the OP.

I think we're saying the same thing here. Demo'g the gear is the only way to know what you think works best. Some will like Denon/Klipsch and others will hate it. All I'm saying is that there is no clear cut answer for everyone.
post #7 of 24
Dionys and RolandOG are basically saying the same. Let your ears be the judge. And don't forget the room acoustics. That can be a factor also. As for myself, I have an old Yamaha DSP-A2070 integrated amp that sounded just a bit too harsh for my taste when paired with Klipsch RF-5. Same speakers sound better on my older Denon AVR-3802.
post #8 of 24
There's also the possible factor of auto setups being used or not being used when the amp was setup in the listening room. And any number of other settings people may have messed with.

A common issue with receivers in listening rooms is boomy bass. I am not sure why, but it often seems people have turned up the bass setting, and I often pick up on that, and ask the saleperson to set the response to flat.
post #9 of 24
I listened to Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer on Klipsch because I am a HUGE Klipsch fan. I picked the Pioneer VSX94TXH (auditioned the 92) I had done the same the previous year and picked the Denon 2307CI. Seems like the manufacturers tweak something or other from year to year.

The Pioneer and Klipsch pairing is really good. Sounds like my old Harman Kardon, or Adcom separates again. And I used the Adcom amp with the Denon with no perceptable difference.

That said, it is your ears that will be doing the listening. Audition whatever you can.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

There's also the possible factor of auto setups being used or not being used when the amp was setup in the listening room. And any number of other settings people may have messed with.

For instance, the 4308ci has an option to apply its equalization curves even when in pure or direct modes. Any number of things could be messed up in the typical listening room and you may not spot it unless you're familiar with the units and the setup.
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionyz View Post

...FYI - I was auditioning Klipsch RF-83 back in December and I had the opportunity to do so with Yamaha 3800, Onkyo 905 and Denon 2808.

With the Yamaha and Onkyo, these speakers sounded fantastic - full of detail and dynamics.

When I switched over to the Denon, all the detail and dynamics of this speaker were gone - sounded muffled.

...Denon just sounded bad with these Klipsch speakers, as if it did not have the guts of the other two receivers.

I would not buy it even if it cost 50% of the Yamaha.

You have made this assessment before and I respectfully suggest that your blanket statement of "Denon just sounded bad with these Klipsch speakers, as if it did not have the guts of the other two receivers," may have sounded that way to you, but goes against what others of us have experienced with the proper Denon AVR matched with Klipsch speakers.

Fwiw, the Denon AVR 2808ci doesn't have the amp section to run the RF-83s and the Yamaha and Onkyo you were comparing it to were higher end models in their lines compared to the Denon. {EDIT: The Yamaha RXV 3800 and the Onkyo 905 are both top of the line AVRs, where the Denon AVR 2808 is near their bottom of the line.}

The AVR 3808ci or 4308ci would have been a closer match however you would want to get a THX ultra II model for the better amps, to drive a RF-83 based Home Theater, imo.

Btw, the comparable Denons are more expensive than their competitors.
post #12 of 24
I am in the hunt for a new AVR as my Denon 5800 exploded a week ago. I have been a fan of the Denon / Klipsch combo, but I have also noted in listening in stores that it is quite important to take into account that older Klipsch vs. newer Klipsch make a huge difference in pairing. I run speakers from the Epic line (CF's), have some KG's as well. The sound from the current lineup of Klipsch seems to require different umpf then the older ones. That should be factored into this conversation as well.

I am so lost on what I want to go with as well. If this hunt was a little more planned I would just replace the old 5800 with the 5308ci, but I am keeping it down to ~2K and below. I really did not like the old Yamaha + Klipsch combo, but I hear they have changed a lot since then. Currently I have the Denon 4308 or 3808, Onkyo 905 or 875 on my short list. I do not know why I have always stayed away from the Pioneer offerings and Yamaha (new).
post #13 of 24
How would Marantz (7002 or 8002) fit in that list ?

I just bought my Klipsch RF-7 one week ago and I'm loving it.
But my Harman Kardon 7500 is lacking HDMi inputs, so I need to upgrade sometime later this year (When my wife has grown used to these huge speakers )
post #14 of 24
tyrannyPBE and AndreK,

As posted I am fond of driving my larger Home Theater, which is basically an all tower system, with the Denon AVR 4806 which is THX Ultra II rated and has a beefier amp section than the lower end models. I could drive this system with a Denon AVR 3805, but not as loud and the experience wasn't the same (I had to replace a pair of my SS towers with bookshelf speakers to achieve satisfactory results).

That being said the Denon AVR 3805 drove an RB-75 Bookshelf based HT (slightly different 1 3/4" compression driver as in the RF-7's) 5.1 HT with great results.

I would check and see if there are any discontinued Denon AVR 4806 available for under $2,000 and any of the AVR 43XX (or 38XX) series and above should be sufficient to drive most Klipsch Reference systems, imo.

Also, as posted earlier, I am curious to see how the Onkyo THX ultra II models pan out. They seem to be half as expensive as the Denons and if they are on par, I have no problem paying less money for the same quality in the next upgrade cycle....Inquiring minds would like to know how they are working out for Klipsch owners.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyrannyPBE View Post


....that it is quite important to take into account that older Klipsch vs. newer Klipsch make a huge difference in pairing. I run speakers from the Epic line (CF's), have some KG's as well. The sound from the current lineup of Klipsch seems to require different umpf then the older ones. That should be factored into this conversation as well.


I've been hearing this more and more recently. I had no idea that the newer Klipsch were so demanding on amps. I was driving my KG-4's with NAD separates (a 30w amp) to ear-splitting levels and it was clear as a bell. I know the quality of that amp is pretty good but still, it's 30 watts! My 100w yamaha has zero issues with the Forte II's and it's a low-end $500 receiver.
post #16 of 24
Hefeweizen, It is commonly known that Klipsch has made advances in engineering their newer models and diminishing the harshness of the horn (kinda like many cults watering down their doctrines to mainstream christianity). Klipsch today is still Klipsch (thank God ) but a little less harsh and retaining the sharpness. i believe what you may like will depend on what model you use. I purchased the RF-3 in 1999 & paired with a Sony ES which seemed to double up the harshness and hard rock was sounding good to me. I had grown weary of that harsh sound... missed the arrangement of the rest of the instruments (& vocals in films) so i ditched the Sony for a Pioneer 94. {aaahhhh... smooth jazz/blues} sorry to ramble, but i hope this helps. If you have older Klipsch get a smoother receiver (i.e. Pioneer... or Marantz comes to mind) If you will use any of the nwer models, either of those 2 you mentioned would be fine... listen for yourself... & listen with YOUR style of music... make sure one or the other is not equalized, one not stuck in the corner of the room, and remember your tastes may also change as you age. Good luck
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
thanks jjackknife...by any chance do you know if the Synergy Quintet SL's are considered old?...i will take a cd with me to the store and see which one I like best...I was at BB two days ago and heard both receives with some random music they had there...so i will have to take my own to see what i like best...thANKS...
post #18 of 24
Fwiw, The Quintets are basically Home Theater in a Box and the AVR discussion was more geared toward their larger speakers. The Denon AVR 2808ci should run those nicely. Good Luck.
post #19 of 24
yes, Zen is probably right on the Denon... i also had assumed we were talking reference series.... although there is a good forum at Klipsch where you can get much more specific and quality information on anything, including good matches, on all things Klipsch
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjackknife View Post

.... although there is a good forum at Klipsch where you can get much more specific and quality information on anything, including good matches, on all things Klipsch

More quality and specific information than he is getting here?
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

More quality and specific information than he is getting here?

The Klipsch forum is an excellent resource filled with a ton of really knowledgeable owners. As good as AVS is, there is no other forum on the web better than the one on the official Klipsch site.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post

The Klipsch forum is an excellent resource filled with a ton of really knowledgeable owners. As good as AVS is, there is no other forum on the web better than the one on the official Klipsch site.

yup, & yup!!!
post #23 of 24
I am getting ready to go Emotive for my Klipsch set up as soon as they are available. Can't wait to hear how they sound with 200 watts x 5.
post #24 of 24
I'm using a Denon 4308ci now and will be soon upgrading to a 5308ci. I've tested the Sony ES5300, the Onkyo 905, Denon 4308 and I tried my best to test an Integra 8.8 and 9.8. Out of this mix, the Denon was the clear leader in SQ and VQ. The Onkyo had serious SQ issues on the center channel during movie playback. The Sony sounded good but had a hiss on the HDMI inputs. There were several other issues that were not related to SQ on the Onkyo (like serious sound delay). After explaining my test, the Integra dealer would not let me purchase one of their units (I was floored by this). The Denon was flawless, allowed firmware updates, and after tuning (using Audyssey) the SQ was superior to any of the others (the others were tuned the same way). Denon costs more than the others but is well worth it. The video aspects on the Denon were superior as well.

I have a Klipsch RF-83 system with 2 subwoofers - the Denon brings them to life!
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