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JBL Synthesis - Page 2

post #31 of 71
"the center channel"
LL
post #32 of 71
the Klipsch THX is better suited for rooms size under 250sq ft. (25sq meters or less)
especially with just twin 6'' woofers.

the TANNOY DC12i and 6i or inwall for surround can go in larger rooms (20-40sq meters)
(subwoofers: either their 15" or JBLPRO or Velodyne etc. "plural")
the JBL PRO well there's no limits and large choices.

there's a french brand than probably no one knows here called GKF www.g-k-f.com
they have great success in France with custom installers.
large choices of high sensitive speakers (they were former Altec importers).
post #33 of 71
Quote:


Does the JBL version of the lexicon support LPCM over HDMI?

You can contact your friends at HDMI and determine if 1.2 supports LPCM and at what bandwidth.

The only difference between the Lexicon MC12HD and the Sythesis unit is the color of the face plate and the name engraved thereon.
post #34 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

You can contact your friends at HDMI and determine if 1.2 supports LPCM and at what bandwidth.

The only difference between the Lexicon MC12HD and the Sythesis unit is the color of the face plate and the name engraved thereon.

All versions of HDMI will support 8 channels of 24/192 LPCM. However, assuming the Synthesis unit is a pure rebadge, then the MC12HD can only handle 6 channels of 24/192 LPCM despite the fact that it is supposed to be HDMI 1.1. This is one of my main issues with it, and why I haven't pulled the trigger on an upgrade from the MC12 to the HD. Since it is only HDMI 1.1, it also will not accept a bitstream of any of the lossless HD audio codecs.
post #35 of 71
It is currently 1.2 (if you installed the upgrade) or purchased recently and the two units are identical (other than the face plate). You are correct as well in that it will not accept a bitstream of the lossless audio codecs.
post #36 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by brain sturgeon View Post

Since it is only HDMI 1.1, it also will not accept a bitstream of any of the lossless HD audio codecs.

What would it do with the bitstream ever if it could accept it?
post #37 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by faberryman View Post

What would it do with the bitstream ever if it could accept it?

Nothing. But I presume that Lex wouldn't even program the MC12HD to decode TrueHD or DTSHDMA if the HDMI spec they adopted wouldn't pass it anyway. You're pretty much stuck with getting source components (i.e. BD players) that will decode the codecs and pass them as LPCM via HDMI, although even if there is a 7.1 track, you are SOL and will only get 5.1 via the HDMI on the MC12HD (which can then get converted to 7.1 via Logic7 or PLIIx).
post #38 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post


Genelec is an option (a good one). Get a more current, fresh surround processor, along with something along the lines of the QSC DSP322UA ... less money better performance.

Dennis,

Tell me more about the QSC DSP322UA.

Not a lot of info out on this yet.. Is this like a DSP-4 with 8 inputs (rather than 2)??

Likely it is improved over the DSP-4 but how?? With all 8 channels in one box, calibrations would certainly be easier / better)..
post #39 of 71
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/net.../dsp_322ua.php

What I really want for Christmas (Bob Lee) is an SPDIF in/out model.

Lower noise floor to begin with. Addressable memory settings. Multiple unit can communicate and coordinate... so with six side surround speakers and five subs, two units can behave as one. The DSP-4 (two in two out) requires you cascade multiple DSP-4s when you go beyond two subs or two side surrounds per side.
post #40 of 71
Quote:


You can contact your friends at HDMI and determine if 1.2 supports LPCM and at what bandwidth.

The only difference between the Lexicon MC12HD and the Sythesis unit is the color of the face plate and the name engraved thereon.

Dennis Erskine, you said "The SD40HD processor is the Lexicon MC12HD which is NOT HDMI 1.3b and currently does not support any of the high resolution lossless audio formats." which is wrong since it can accept 5.1 LPCM over HDMI.
post #41 of 71
DW, it's kind of obvious that he means TruHD and DTS-MA. Otherwise, the word 'lossless' is redundant.
post #42 of 71
Quote:


DW, it's kind of obvious that he means TruHD and DTS-MA. Otherwise, the word 'lossless' is redundant.

Its still lossless, just because you can not bitstream the lossless codec does not take away anything. But I know what you are getting at.
post #43 of 71
Digital,

It was the Def. (no pun intended) Install series using Lab.Gruppen amps (C-Series as I recall, lower end LG amp) and some tricked out tweaking using Dolby Lake processing (same company, TC Group, owns them all).

You also have a PM.

Mike
post #44 of 71
Quote:


Klipsch THX system in this segment? Not really a comparable product. No thanks.

Not by price tag, but certainly by performance. But scale counts, and Synthesis scaling to room size provides flexibility. You're welcome anyway.
post #45 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Not by price tag, but certainly by performance. But scale counts, and Synthesis scaling to room size provides flexibility. You're welcome anyway.

I once got "ripped a new one" when I made an off-hand remark about Paul Klipsch. It was about the man and not about his pioneering products, but the retribution was swift and severe. He was a brilliant man and apparently a decent human being, including a sense of humor. However, the guy I made the comment to was having none of that. To him, Klipsch was a god.

I have a lot of respect for Klipsch products, old and new, but if you omit the legacy, special order stuff from the catalog, there's not much there today that I'm interested in. Still, it outperforms some of the much pricier boutique gear, no doubt.

James B. Lansing and his JBL brand get ripped pretty well by a lot of people today, and some of it is understandable. It's entertaining to see JBL's top gear get ridiculed in light of the gimmicky stuff that some people tout as superior. I assume those same people laugh at me for liking it.

I spent several thousand dollars listening before buying, including flying to other locations for auditions. I ended up with Synthesis.

No doubt there are much better systems, even in the Synthesis line, but for my money I got what represented the best system. I can't imagine spending the kind of money some folks do. It's unrealistic to think that any normal person would be able to, especially to end up with some of the atrocious environments I've seen and heard.

There truly is no accounting for taste.
post #46 of 71
I've owned a Syn system as well...(don't any more), customer service was non-existent. I do know much of what is a Syn system today is different from a few years ago. None-the-less, it is alot of money with an outdated SDEC and a sorely in need of an update surround processor. I'm not telling anyone not to get one, just there may be better choices out there until the electronic basis of the entire system is somewhat more contemporary.
post #47 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Not by price tag, but certainly by performance.

Eh. Maybe if Synthesis were a $3000 system. I never could understand the attraction to the Klipsch THX system. Reminded me of a hopped up monster truck in subtlety and involvement.
post #48 of 71
Quote:


Klipsch THX system in this segment? Not really a comparable product. No thanks.

I strongly disagree!
post #49 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Eh. Maybe if Synthesis were a $3000 system. I never could understand the attraction to the Klipsch THX system. Reminded me of a hopped up monster truck in subtlety and involvement.

Spoken like a true elitist. Are you speaking of the Klipsch THX Ultra system of the '90s? Your comparison to Synthesis would be reasonable, if that is the case.
Quote:


Reminded me of a hopped up monster truck in subtlety and involvement.

Many would use the same description for the sound of a large pro cinema stack in any home theater size room. The current Klipsch THX Ultra2 system voices extremely closely to the Grand Cinema array perfornance in a fine cinema (a photo of which Ray has provided). The history of the R&D of the system is pretty remarkable. It's original pass and investment was abandoned, re-started with a new project engineer, and the Grand Cinema being its new performance reference. Now if the Grand Cinema in a fine theater does not fit your ear, then neither will the home products which are designed to emulate it. A lot of folks like that. To each his own.
post #50 of 71
If you can fit one of those in your car, you can fit 5000 subs in your theater.
post #51 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

If you can fit one of those in your car, you can fit 5000 subs in your theater.

Roof Rack and Bungee cords my man.
post #52 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

If you can fit one of those in your car, you can fit 5000 subs in your theater.

But how many can you fit in your mode of aerospace transportation? "Dudes, this is your captain speaking. A flock of geese just flamed out both engines. Start jettisoning all those damned subs, and find me a piece of six or a convenient river now!"
post #53 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

I've owned a Syn system as well...(don't any more), customer service was non-existent. I do know much of what is a Syn system today is different from a few years ago. None-the-less, it is alot of money with an outdated SDEC and a sorely in need of an update surround processor. I'm not telling anyone not to get one, just there may be better choices out there until the electronic basis of the entire system is somewhat more contemporary.

Dennis

You're an AVS Moderator, an AVS Gold Club Member, and a practicing professional, all impressive credentials, none of which I have. Yet I will offer you a different perspective in the interest of friendly dialog.

There are five factors that are important to me. I'll pose them as questions.
1. Do I find the sound irresistible?
2. Will it integrate well in my space?
3. Can it reproduce my current, extensive media collection with a high level of accuracy and control?
4. Is there anything looming on the horizon that I'm interested in that will be impossible to integrate once I make the choice?
5. Am I willing to spend money on technology I don't intend to use in the hope that someday I might?

Your personal and professional measures are different than mine, though we may ask ourselves similar questions as we process a decision. What I have done is answer these questions (and lesser ones, to be sure) for myself, spend a decent amount of money and time seeking a system in my price range that meets those answers, and purchase it.

I'll spend another $25k on room reconstruction and sound treatments and a few grand more on some source upgrades.

For the amount of money I planned to spend and for the intended uses I planned to put it to, there was nothing else I wanted at the end of my search. Nothing else was close. The SAM1HF and SAM2LF modules were without peer.

I didn't get the SDP-40HD; I opted for the lesser SDP-5 as I couldn't justify the extra expense. If at some time down the road TrueHD or other options become widely accepted, adopted, and distributed, then I can easily incorporate the necessary equipment, which will be improved and advanced at that time. I'm not willing to gamble on it now. I've done enough of that in the past, and I'm not willing to buy something solely to be able to say I have the latest and greatest.

Your opinions are reasoned and based on experience, and I respect that. They do not reflect my priorities in making this decision, which after long deliberation I am happy to have made. Fortunately for both of us you will never have to come to my house to listen to it.
post #54 of 71
Actually, I'd probably enjoy a listening session in your room. I'm always up for that. Nor would I dispute anyone's personal choices with respect to their room, or equipment. As with my clients, I'll make my suggestions, provide the pros and cons of the various choices before them, and then move on to the next challenge.

I know they are working on improving the currency (an aviation term) of their pre-pro and the SDEC...we'll see when it hits the street! (I still am annoyed at their customer no-service; but, obviously others mileage has varied.)
post #55 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post

Spoken like a true elitist.

No, not at all. I just thought they were way overpriced, more so than normal Klipsch and that's saying a lot

I am pretty confident I'd feel the same about the JBL system, but I haven't heard it, so I give it the benefit of the doubt. For dedicated HT purposes, my new favorite is the PSB Synchrony One system. It will kill the Klipsch system and costs about the same.
post #56 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

I've owned a Syn system as well...(don't any more), customer service was non-existent.

Must be the same service department as Revel. I've been trying to get a grill and some spikes for Ultimas for 6 months now.
post #57 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

No, not at all. I just thought they were way overpriced, more so than normal Klipsch and that's saying a lot

I am pretty confident I'd feel the same about the JBL system, but I haven't heard it, so I give it the benefit of the doubt. For dedicated HT purposes, my new favorite is the PSB Synchrony One system. It will kill the Klipsch system and costs about the same.

Thank you for the extra info. In comparable environments the new JBL Syn and Klipsch THX U2 probably have similar sound. I would guess that the Klipsch would probably sound less aggressive than the JBL Syn. That could also be said of the Klipsch THX U2 compared to most of the Klipsch products. There is a significant level of refinement to them, especially as horn designs go. Certainly the PSBs will have a very different sound character...as do Revels. I have an associate who looked into the Klipsch, but prefered the Revel sound to which he was accustomed. All fine products, each with its own signature character that provides us with variety.
post #58 of 71
Well, you know, the sound I like is the *right* sound
post #59 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Must be the same service department as Revel. I've been trying to get a grill and some spikes for Ultimas for 6 months now.

I'm sure you already know this, but Harman is in the process of contraction, and many product lines are moving to the Northridge facility. That's no excuse for Revel, but perhaps an explanation.

I understand there is a wholesale retooling of the parts warehousing and distribution system. I've been waiting almost two months for a single output transistor for one of my HTPS400 subs. The drive from my house to the warehouse for this would take 35 minutes on an average LA day, but even though the system says they have it, the humans don't know where it is. So proximity does not help.

OTOH, this Harman move made it possible for me to get a sensational price on a system and move up from what I thought I could afford to a discernibly better system. Support by the Synthesis dealer has been stellar. Service? We'll see.
post #60 of 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Well, you know, the sound I like is the *right* sound

As in 'whatever floats your boat.'
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