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GeForce 8200 - 8 Channel LPCM Output Fully Supported!! - Page 28

post #811 of 2308
5/17/08 at 12:04pm
Ok I was getting a "DO NOT ENTER" sign because for some reason it kept telling me i couldn't lpayback 1080p. I tired it againa and cut the resolution down to 540p, which as we know is unacceptable. I installed AnyDVD HD and it's working fine. that's right 1080p video with full PCM. Also I tried 1080p/24 and it works fine, but the IN76 has problems with it. This is the same outcome with my PS3. So Abmag, put me on the list of 1080p with PCM.

now I'll go back to my 720p MKV 72fps videos
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post #812 of 2308
5/17/08 at 12:52pm
BTW been messing around with the 1080p stuff...

Without HA I get perfect playback, with HA I get odd results including stuttering. Could be why people are having issues. Mind you this is Nero 8, WinDVD doesn't have this issue, but you also don't get LPCM...

For those who wonder, in 1080p WITHOUT HA I get about 45% on my CPU usage in Nero playing back AVC Level 4.1 Identity with FULL PCM. Take that for what it's worth.
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post #813 of 2308
5/17/08 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post

Ok I was getting a "DO NOT ENTER" sign because for some reason it kept telling me i couldn't lpayback 1080p. I tired it againa and cut the resolution down to 540p, which as we know is unacceptable. I installed AnyDVD HD and it's working fine. that's right 1080p video with full PCM. Also I tried 1080p/24 and it works fine, but the IN76 has problems with it. This is the same outcome with my PS3. So Abmag, put me on the list of 1080p with PCM.

now I'll go back to my 720p MKV 72fps videos

Okay, you're the only one on the list right now.
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post #814 of 2308
5/17/08 at 1:50pm
This is the heatsink I am using.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835116018

I had to modify my 8500GT's heatsink to give me clearance from the nut that holds the heatsink down. Just had to snip off one of the fins, basically got lucky that it worked out.
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post #815 of 2308
5/17/08 at 2:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post

This Phenom might be helping things. what's funny is that I'm not even spending much time watching Blu-ray/HD-DVD. I've been devoting most of my efforts with tripling frame rates in Avisynth. And as we know, that's all CPU there.

720p MKVs @ 72fps is tough to beat!

I have no idea what Avisynth is or does, so I'l have to take your word for it.

But just to update anyone interested, after disabling AMD Cool n' Quiet and setting the power plan to High Performance, BD's are playing in 1080p, CPU utilization is between 65 and 88%, Nero indicates Dolby TrueHD, receiver still reporting 192.0HKz, and stutter is much improved. I was watching Batman Begins and only noticed a few sections where playback was jerky.

I'm real close...
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post #816 of 2308
5/18/08 at 9:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

What exactly is your problem anyway? And why should you get to set criteria for the success of the product? You like your orphaned G35 board, and that's great for you, but this thread is about the 8200/8300 chipsets and HD audio out over HDMI.

Lots of people have 720p displays and if it works for 720p that's good for people to know too.

The main issue is that folks are successfully getting LPCM HD audio out from this board via HDMI. That is what separates this platform from others. If there are issues with the video output at 1080p, I am pretty sure a driver update will fix that. HD audio out and video are relatively uncoupled on this platform in terms of the underlying driver internals. I suspect that if there is a problem here it will get fixed in short order.

In the meantime, let the folks who care about this chipset post their experiences and stop trying to accuse people of not really getting HD out when they say they are. There are other threads for orphaned G35 chipset users, and I am sure you will be welcomed there.

Because the board SAYS it can do 1080 while also doing 8 channel digital sound.
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post #817 of 2308
5/18/08 at 9:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

Neither of those motherboards are based on the 8200/8300 chipset. In fact, they don't even have HDMI out.

The one is a 750 and the other is a 780. I thought they were 8200 and 8300 boards.

I did not notice the lack of HDMI, so you are right about ther.
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post #818 of 2308
5/18/08 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

What exactly is your problem anyway? And why should you get to set criteria for the success of the product? You like your orphaned G35 board, and that's great for you, but this thread is about the 8200/8300 chipsets and HD audio out over HDMI.

Lots of people have 720p displays and if it works for 720p that's good for people to know too.

The main issue is that folks are successfully getting LPCM HD audio out from this board via HDMI. That is what separates this platform from others. If there are issues with the video output at 1080p, I am pretty sure a driver update will fix that. HD audio out and video are relatively uncoupled on this platform in terms of the underlying driver internals. I suspect that if there is a problem here it will get fixed in short order.

In the meantime, let the folks who care about this chipset post their experiences and stop trying to accuse people of not really getting HD out when they say they are. There are other threads for orphaned G35 chipset users, and I am sure you will be welcomed there.

One person is getting HD audio with HD video. That's kind of the point. Until more than one person can make this happen, it's hardly viable.

I'm open to any new HTPC board, but I also am trying to clear the FUD (like everyone else) to see what this MB can really do right now.

I'll happily buy a new MB a month if they get better.

But sadly, right now, only the G35 is successful for multiple people (using multiple players) wih 720p/1080p and full HD audio.
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post #819 of 2308
5/18/08 at 7:03pm
I've only tried two players though. I guess I'll pop in PowerDVD. BTW if anyone needs help on the board, let me know and I'm willing to help out. I really did nothing special however, it just works. No registry hacks, no crazy settings in BIOS. Just installed the OS, used latest drivers and I was good to go.
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post #820 of 2308
5/18/08 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post

I've only tried two players though. I guess I'll pop in PowerDVD. BTW if anyone needs help on the board, let me know and I'm willing to help out. I really did nothing special however, it just works. No registry hacks, no crazy settings in BIOS. Just installed the OS, used latest drivers and I was good to go.

And only one of the players (Nero) works for multichannel audio with HD video, right?

Yeah, it would be great if you could try TMT or PDVD, as that's what most people are using for ISO/full disc playback. Nero seems sketchy on a lot of platforms, at least with some formats (like getting offset colors and such).
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post #821 of 2308
5/18/08 at 8:52pm
I'm beginning to wonder if my board itself is bad (GF8200A). At first I thought my audio problems were heat related, but I doubt that at the moment.
In all situations I have tried (XP SP2/3 and Vista 32bit), my audio has pops in it, much like a very poorly recorded mp3. It occurs with both the HDMI audio and the onboard audio, whether I select 2 channel speakers or 7.1 channel speakers in the control panel. It also happens regardless of what format I am sending to my receiver, including PCM, multichannel PCM, DTS, or DD. I doubt it is a problem with the receiver, since it works fine when hooked up via HDMI to my cable box, or my current HTPC, which has onboard nvidia 630a.

The only time it didn't happen (at least in XP, didn't check it in vista), was on a fresh install of XP and without the installation of the nvidia graphics drivers. However, without the graphics drivers, HDMI audio doesn't work. So, I suppose it could very well be tied to the drivers, maybe they really are in that bad a shape. I haven't spent much time investigating the video capabilties, since I couldn't get audio to work properly.

However, here are some other observations I have made. HDMI audio behavior seemed fairly similar in both XP and Vista. The main difference as far as configuration was concerned is that vista allowed you to specify whether or not your speakers were full range or limited. It did also let you select whether certain speakers were absent (for example, you could setup a 7.1 channel system, but then select you didn't have side surrounds). However, making this change doesn't really make any practical difference, since in both XP and Vista, unless I selected a 7.1 channel configuration, all I would get via PCM was 2 channel. If I did select a 7.1 channel configuration, I would always get 7.1 channel PCM, regardless of the source on the computer. For example, just 2 channel sound would send 7.1 channels to the receiver, though I would only get sound out of 2 channels. So, if you have a 7.1 system, you would need to expand 5.1 out to 7.1 in software via PLIIx or something similar if you wanted 7.1. I'm pretty sure both PowerDVD and Nero can do this, it didn't seem like arcsoft had this option.

Getting multichannel PCM was pretty easy, I was able to get it to play in both the trial of Arcsoft (in XP anyway, not vista) and via a FLAC file in mplayer classic (of course, I had my popping).

Also, I'm almost certain my popping isn't performance related, since as I mentioned in happened in all audio formats, and even with the multichannel flac, CPU usage never got above 30%.

Others with the ECS board, did you ever notice this popping in the audio? If so, did you find a solution? I'll probably send it back in a few days unless some exciting solution comes out.
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post #822 of 2308
5/18/08 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

And only one of the players (Nero) works for multichannel audio with HD video, right?

Yeah, it would be great if you could try TMT or PDVD, as that's what most people are using for ISO/full disc playback. Nero seems sketchy on a lot of platforms, at least with some formats (like getting offset colors and such).

TMT does not support 64-bit Vista yet.
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post #823 of 2308
5/18/08 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cghebert View Post

I'm beginning to wonder if my board itself is bad (GF8200A).

Others with the ECS board, did you ever notice this popping in the audio? If so, did you find a solution? I'll probably send it back in a few days unless some exciting solution comes out.

No popping whatsoever here on mine.
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post #824 of 2308
5/18/08 at 10:28pm
Thread Starter 
GeForce 8200's graphics does not work very well yet (at least in my system). I am sure that the driver and player updates will fix the problems eventually. Meanwhile I tried another route: a discrete graphics with the onboard HDMI audio. The result turned out to be extremely well. We can use a GeForce graphics card for better graphics performance and the GeForce 8200 HDMI audio for the perfect multi-channel LPCM sounds at the same time! This answers a question asked a long time ago in this thread in the affirmative.

Motivation

This approach has nothing to do with the current situation of not-so-good driver development. I don't think GeForce 8200 has enough post-processing power. So either

- Hybrid SLI (precisely "GeForce Boost", like 8200+8500=8600)
- or a discrete GPU + onboard HDMI audio
- or possibly Phenom

is necessary for the perfect post-processing. Hybrid SLI is not available yet (afaik) and only two cards (8400/8500) support it, whence the second approach. The third approach could be effective, but there is no proof of that (afaik).

Test Setup

- Athlon X2 4200+ 2.1GHz
- abit A-N78HD GeForce 8200 mATX motherboard
- DDR2-800 4GB
- ASUS GeForce 9600 GT graphics card (and the XFX GeForce 8500 GT card to make sure that the result is independent of a particular model)
- NVIDIA GeForce 175.16 driver
- NVIDIA nForce 780a/750a/730a/720a/710a/GeForce 8300/8200/8100 18.11 driver ("southbridge" driver)
- Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit
- PowerDVD 8 Ultra Build 1622 (and 7.3 Build 3730)
- Onkyo TX-SA606X receiver

Connection

- GeForce 9600 GT -> display via a DVI-HDMI adapter and a HDMI cable
- GeForce 8200 HDMI port -> Onkyo TX-SA606X HDMI IN 1 via a HDMI cable
- TX-SA606X is connected to a 7.1 channel speaker system. No display is connected.

Of course you can connect other devices (a DVD player, VCR etc.) to the receiver and the receiver's HDMI OUT can be connected to the display's another HDMI port. See the diagram below. Switching audio/video can be done by a single operation if you use a universal remote control, so that there should be no inconvenience in this setup apart from one extra HDMI cable.


Now the receiver is recognized as "Monitor 3" by Windows and as the display device "TX-SA606X" by NVIDIA Control Panel. That means Windows actually sends video signal to the receiver (the second half of the extended desktop) multiplexed with HDMI audio.


Receiver Configuration

In the receiver I selected the "Direct" listening mode.

Quote:


In this mode, audio from the input source is output directly with minimal processing, providing high-fidelity reproduction. All of the source’s audio channels are output as they are.

7.1 Channel HDMI Audio

7.1 channel HDMI audio works perfectly in the Sound dialog box > Configure Speakers ... > Test. Each time clicking a speaker, sound comes from the corresponding speaker and the receiver's LCD indicates "PCM MULTI CH HDMI". Well, this test is enough to prove the capability of 7.1 channel HDMI audio. No other HDMI solution in the PC can do this except for some Intel chipsets. BTW the side and the rear are reversed in this test. It's only in this test.


Here is a problem: you can't choose "5.1 Surround" in the Speaker Setup. That means Windows always sends 7.1 channel LPCM to the receiver whatever the source is and when you play 5.1 channel movies, you can't use Dolby PLIIx in the receiver. This is a NVIDIA HDMI Audio driver problem.

PowerDVD Configuration

In PowerDVD 8 > Configuration > Audio tab, I chose

- "Use HDMI" in Speaker environment
- "PCM output" in Output mode


BD Playback

I played Spider-Man 3 BD (Japanese edition) with PowerDVD 8 Ultra. The disc includes three audio tracks:

- LPCM 5.1 (English)
- Dolby Digital 5.1 (English) (a nice addition for S/PDIF users which the English version lacks)
- Dolby TrueHD 5.1 (Japanese)

I selected Japanese as the audio language (i.e. the Dolby TrueHD 5.1 track). Then the receiver indicated multichannel LPCM and I got perfect 5.1 channel sounds from the speakers (in Japanese, of course). I tested the movie with PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra and the result was the same (apart from that PowerDVD 8 gave noticeably better sounds). I haven't tested 7.1 channel movies, but I am pretty sure I will get 7.1 channel LPCM sounds as well. Of course the picture quality is perfect (in my eyes) because it's GeForce 9600 GT!

This approach vs. Hybrid SLI (GeForce Boost)

Right now you can use only two cards (8400 GS, 8500 GT) for GeForce Boost, while you can use any GeForce card in this approach for better post-processing (and 3D performance). A downside is you have to use separate HDMI cables for video and audio.

GeForce 8200 vs. G35/G45.

Obviously being able to use a discrete graphics with GeForce 8200 is a great advantage over Intel G35/G45. Please read the article MultiMonitor Support and Windows Vista to understand why a discrete graphics card does not work with G35 HDMI audio simultaneously.

GeForce 8200 vs. ATI Radeon HD 4850

The upcoming HD 4850 is rumored to support multichannel LPCM HDMI audio and possibly HDMI 1.3 (TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bitstream). If HD 4850 does not support HDMI 1.3, then GeForce 8200 with a discrete graphics (or Hybrid SLI) is a better solution in flexibility (and HD 4850 ~ $200 is overkill for HTPC). Otherwise go with HD 4850.
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post #825 of 2308
5/18/08 at 10:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- abit I-N78HD GeForce 8200 mATX motherboard

Did you mean the A-N78HD or is there another model that's not out yet?

This news may be the kick in the pants I need to get a new motherboard.
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post #826 of 2308
5/18/08 at 10:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Did you mean the A-N78HD or is there another model that's not out yet?

This news may be the kick in the pants I need to get a new motherboard.

Yes, it's "A". Corrected.

But I don't recommend abit A-N78HD. It never wakes up from S3 properly. USB keyboard is not recognized by Vista at start up very frequently (reconnect the USB connector fixes it). Hybrid SLI is not available in BIOS. I hope BIOS updates fix them soon. I still wait for MSI K9N2GM-FIH (late May) and GIGABYTE GA-M78UM-S2H (unknown release date).

Edited

The resume and USB problems were caused by my USB KVM switch. If I remove the KVM switch, everything works fine.
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post #827 of 2308
5/18/08 at 10:57pm
Thanks, I was cursing Google and Live for not giving me any results with the "I". Then I remembered that Abit probably had a website.

Ah, thanks for the warning. Those are actually the two motherboards on which I was waiting.
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post #828 of 2308
5/19/08 at 2:38am
I got a couple of ECS GF8200A boards and one of had that audio problem, but it was fixed by a driver update.

Quote:


Originally Posted by cghebert View Post
I'm beginning to wonder if my board itself is bad (GF8200A).

Others with the ECS board, did you ever notice this popping in the audio? If so, did you find a solution? I'll probably send it back in a few days unless some exciting solution comes out.

The ECS GF8200A came out with a fix for the audio issues some are having, just download the audio driver fix from the site.
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post #829 of 2308
5/19/08 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GeForce 8200's graphics does not work very well yet (at least in my system). I am sure that the driver and player updates will fix the problems eventually. Meanwhile I tried another route: a discrete graphics with the onboard HDMI audio. The result turned out to be extremely well. We can use a GeForce graphics card for better graphics performance and the GeForce 8200 HDMI audio for the perfect multi-channel LPCM sounds at the same time! This answers a question asked a long time ago in this thread in the affirmative. This has nothing to do with Hybrid SLI. You should be able to expect a similar result in Hybrid SLI, but the graphics cards supported by Hybrid SLI are very limited (only four right now: 8400 GS, 8500 GT, 9800 GTX, 9800 GX2).

GeForce 8200 vs. ATI Radeon HD 4850

The upcoming HD 4850 is rumored to support multichannel LPCM HDMI audio and possibly HDMI 1.3 (TrueHD/DTS-HD MA bitstream). If HD 4850 does not support HDMI 1.3, then GeForce 8200 with a discrete graphics (or Hybrid SLI) is a better solution in flexibility. Otherwise go with HD 4850.

This sounds like great news. I will hold off until the new 4850 is out, so we know more about it.
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post #830 of 2308
5/19/08 at 5:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Also note that Bahn Yuki is the only person to get the 8200 working. He has no idea why or how. There are a lot of talented people on this forum, and he's the only guy to get the 8200 sending multi-channel LPCM with HD video out of the 8200.

Take that for what it's worth. I know I'd wait until more than one person managed to get something working.

Thats not true. Mine is working 100% now.
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post #831 of 2308
5/19/08 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzyckz View Post

I got a couple of ECS GF8200A boards and one of had that audio problem, but it was fixed by a driver update.



The ECS GF8200A came out with a fix for the audio issues some are having, just download the audio driver fix from the site.

That would be great, do you have a link for this? And exactly which driver did you update?
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post #832 of 2308
5/19/08 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yes, it's "A". Corrected.

But I don't recommend abit A-N78HD. It never wakes up from S3 properly. USB keyboard is not recognized by Vista at start up very frequently (reconnect the USB connector fixes it). Hybrid SLI is not available in BIOS. I hope BIOS updates fix them soon. I still wait for MSI K9N2GM-FIH (late May) and GIGABYTE GA-M78UM-S2H (unknown release date).

Can I get your opinion on the Asus M3N78-EMH HDMI mobo that some users are currently using. I just bought this board, and was wondering why you weren't trying it. Also I still can't find anyone selling the mobo you're using (abit A-N78HD).
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post #833 of 2308
5/19/08 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GeForce 8200's graphics does not work very well yet (at least in my system). I am sure that the driver and player updates will fix the problems eventually. Meanwhile I tried another route: a discrete graphics with the onboard HDMI audio. The result turned out to be extremely well. We can use a GeForce graphics card for better graphics performance and the GeForce 8200 HDMI audio for the perfect multi-channel LPCM sounds at the same time! This answers a question asked a long time ago in this thread in the affirmative. This has nothing to do with Hybrid SLI. You should be able to expect a similar result in Hybrid SLI, but the graphics cards supported by Hybrid SLI are very limited (only four right now: 8400 GS, 8500 GT, 9800 GTX, 9800 GX2).

So does this mean you have two HDMI connections from your PC to your AVR - one for sound (from the MB), one for video (from the graphics card)?

I know Hybrid-SLI should eventually fix this, but it's nowhere on the horizon yet, is it?

If so, that's not viable for too long... most of us need every HDMI connection we've got available (I have 4 HDMI inputs, and already use them all).
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post #834 of 2308
5/19/08 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

So does this mean you have two HDMI connections from your PC to your AVR - one for sound (from the MB), one for video (from the graphics card)?

I know Hybrid-SLI should eventually fix this, but it's nowhere on the horizon yet, is it?

If so, that's not viable for too long... most of us need every HDMI connection we've got available (I have 4 HDMI inputs, and already use them all).

I believe the idea is that you can plug in audio to your receiver and video directly to your display.

- GeForce 9600 GT -> LCD monitor via a DVI-HDMI adapter and a HDMI cable
- GeForce 8200 HDMI port -> Onkyo TX-SA606X HDMI IN 1 via a HDMI cable
- TX-SA606X is connected to a 7.1 channel speaker system. No display is connected.
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post #835 of 2308
5/19/08 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cghebert View Post

I believe the idea is that you can plug in audio to your receiver and video directly to your display.

- GeForce 9600 GT -> LCD monitor via a DVI-HDMI adapter and a HDMI cable
- GeForce 8200 HDMI port -> Onkyo TX-SA606X HDMI IN 1 via a HDMI cable
- TX-SA606X is connected to a 7.1 channel speaker system. No display is connected.

That's not such a great idea, though. The point of an HDMI-capable AVR is to connect everything to the AVR, then have one cable from your AVR to the display. The AVR switching (AVR = audio video receiver) includes audio and video, not just audio. That's a big loss of functionality.

I don't want any cable going directly from a HTPC to the display. That defeats the whole purpose of HDMI switching in the AVR.

I sure hope they fix this board by the time they release the Intel version. I'd really like an upgrade from my G35 (which works great, but I want something new and need to set up a couple more HTPC's in my house).
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post #836 of 2308
5/19/08 at 8:43am
renethx - great report, I had been wondering about that same question.

A quick question for you. When you play the 5.1 PCM track, does your receiver see it as a 5.1 track or a 7.1 track? And I assume that your speakers are configured as a 7.1 setup from the control panel?

Thanks! (I guess that was two questions)
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post #837 of 2308
5/19/08 at 10:08am
Well, I just uninstalled all my nvidia drivers, and had clean audio through the onboard. Then I installed the 18.11 nforce and then 175.16 forceware, and the audio popping returned in both HDMI and onboard.

If I unplug the HDMI cable from the mobo, the popping stops in the onboard. But, it returns if I only have it plugged into the receiver (no video), or if I have it directly plugged into the TV (no receiver). So, I am definitely baffled.

The only other remote possibility (besides a bad board) I can think of is the BIOS? I updated to the latest BIOS on the website, and I don't remember checking the audio before doing this. I didn't think at the time to backup my old BIOS. Could someone with the old BIOS for the ECS board upload it so I could check this?
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post #838 of 2308
5/19/08 at 10:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakaw View Post

Can I get your opinion on the Asus M3N78-EMH HDMI mobo that some users are currently using. I just bought this board, and was wondering why you weren't trying it. Also I still can't find anyone selling the mobo you're using (abit A-N78HD).

I have no hands-on experience with the ASUS board, so I can't speak of it. Somehow I was able to get the abit board. There is no other reason for choosing abit.
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post #839 of 2308
5/19/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cghebert View Post

Could someone with the old BIOS for the ECS board upload it so I could check this?

I'll check to make sure, but I believe I'm still using the original BIOS- I'll see about getting it to you tonight or tomorrow.
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post #840 of 2308
5/19/08 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oildalemonkey View Post

I'll check to make sure, but I believe I'm still using the original BIOS- I'll see about getting it to you tonight or tomorrow.

Much appreciated.
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