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Monoprice in-wall, in-ceiling speakers - Page 38

post #1111 of 1786
Ok surfer, I started the side by side comparison tonight between the 6816 and 7604. Let me preface with saying this is with the speakers leaning securely at an angle between my carpeted floor and bar stools. With the speakers at a slight pointing upward direction, the weight of these speakers provided a pretty secure "lean". There were no enclosures of any type at this time, as I was getting too impatient to build some temporary ones for now.
I started the process by deciding which center I wanted to go with. I hooked a 7604 as my RF and a 6816 as my LF, and started with the 6317 as my center. I put in a movie (Transformers), which I love, and also has lots of detailed high-frequencies. I did a quick set-up of my receiver to balance the stage, and listened to some dynamic scenes. Then I switched out the 6317 with my 2nd 7604 as a center. I replayed the same scenes, paying close attention to voices, and sound details (like clarity of breaking glass, cracking ice, etc.)
Now I had a hard time trying to decide which one I liked better as a center. The 6317 did seem to produce more clarity, especially the upper frequencies, but did sound a bit bright. I toyed with the bass and treble settings on my receiver and it did sound better. This is one of those area which I'm thinking would be better once in the wall. I do like the idea of the traditional center channel driver arrangement. The 7604 however, had a more "fuller" sound, obviously able to reach slightly lower frequencies. I had my receiver settings at "large" center, and crossover at 80Hz. I switched the receiver over to "small", but did not notice much of a change in the center channel. I'm not sure if it was just me or not, but having the 7604 horizontally, the sound appeared to change depending on which side off-center I was listening from. One side was "richer, and more full", and the mid/tweet side was "brighter, and more detailed". Now I wanted to be able to do quicker A-B testing without having to switch wires back and forth, so I set the 6317 up as my LF, and the 7604 as the RF. I switched my receiver to "stereo" and played more scenes. I angled the speakers facing about a 60 degrees away from each other so I could walk back and forth across the room, and only hear one speaker at a time. I reset bass/treble settings to 0, and adjusted the LF (6317) volume up just a tad to equal volume levels. I'd find a scene I liked, listened to one side, then rewind the scene and listen to the other side with the same scene. I did this back and forth, over and over, using several different scenes, and found I liked the 7604 just a bit more for my liking. I also did some scenes with the sub turned way down, and some scenes with my sub at normal level. With the sub off, the speakers seemed closer in comparison, but with the sub on, the 7604 seems to "blend in" with the sub better than the 6317.
Now that I determined which center I liked, I wired a 7604 as center, and the other 7604 as RF. I wired a 6816 as LF. Now I did a quick receiver set-up to balance the stage, and repeated the scene tests, walking back and forth, back and forth, and back and forth. I did some with sub off, some with sub on, some in Dolby Pro Logic and some in just Stereo. I did some in 5ch stereo and a couple of other receiver settings as well. This part of the decision was HARD. They both sounded really good with Transformers. The 6816 did seem to "blend" into the sub better (as one would expect with the bigger driver). The 6817 also had better ultra-high frequency reproduction, but seemed to ignore some of the minor details that the 7604 produced. Scenes like the shattering glass falling onto the ground, and the sound of the ice breaking slowly sounded better to me from the 7604. Most of the other scenes played extremely close, but like I said, the extremely detailed scenes sounded better from the 7604 to me. Keep in mind, the whole time I'm trying a new scene, I do each in stereo mode, and Dolby Pro Logic. I wanted to single out one speaker, then listen to one side with center accompanyment.
Since I will be about 50/50 movies and music, I hooked up my iphone and played some music. Again, some in stereo, some in Dolby, some in 5ch stereo, and some in direct. I have to say, that I think the 6816 sounded slightly better with music. This was mostly attributed to slightly more bass coming from the 6817. I ran these tests trying both sub on, and off as well. I played a few different songs, and had my wife come to lend a listen. In the normal wife fashion, she picked one (I believe randomly), and said "that one sounds good". I think I bored her with dragging her back and forth between the two sides.
When it came down to choosing the 7604's or 6816's for the mains it remained a difficult choice. They both sounded really good (much better than I expected based on the price), and I ended up basing my decision on a couple very minor differences. 1) I liked the idea of having all three speakers microflange, 2) I wanted to go with the "more detailed" 7604's, rather than the "fuller, more complete" sounding 6816. I only have a 100W 8" Energy sub right now, and the 6816 sounded more blended and complete paired with it. But, getting a better sub is on my agenda, and I believe I can make up some of the lower range missing from the 7604's. Also, once placing them into the wall, should make the 7604's sound more "complete and full". Worst cake scenario, maybe I'll look into Monoprice's passive 8" in-wall speakers as a bridge. 3) I value others' opinions, and Pristas and I have been talking, and he is really pleased with how his 7604 mains sound, especially after them breaking in a little more.
All and all though, I think alot of my decision ended up being cosmetic, and going with three micoflange speakers. That should show you just how closely these speakers were. I could definitely do with the larger flange if the 6816 were the better speaker hands down, but they were MUCH closer than that. I have a moderate sized front room, that is joined to the large kitchen and breakfast nook. These speakers were NOT in the wall or any enclosure of any kind, and seemed more than adequate for my room size. As another note, I turned my amp up all the way, (90W @8 ohms for the 6816's, and 115W @6 ohms for the 4704's), and did not notice any distortion from either of them. In fact, the ONLY distortion I noticed was from the 7604 center at full volume, and only for a couple scenes, like when optimus prime and megatron were fighting. The distortion was only in the very high frequencies, and I don't think I would even notice it, if I weren't evaluating the speakers so closely.

Sorry this is such a long post, but I know when I read forums for answers/advice I like hearing the evaluation methods used, and not just "I think this speaker sounds better". I hope this is helpful to anyone who is still reading this 2 year old topic, and hope it helps any new subscribers.
post #1112 of 1786
I almost hit "quote" to respond to your post, then decided against it lol. Seriously, man, fantastic write-up. I'm sure a lot of people here will really appreciate it. And you've made me really reconsider going with the 6816's. If they really are that close, I might just have to go with the 7604's. They are a better-looking speaker (especially with a micro-flanged center as well), and since I'll most likely be upgrading to a 12" BIC America sub soon, I think it'll pick up any slack that might be there on the low end compared to the 6816. Thanks again!
post #1113 of 1786
Any chance you'll be publishing a Cliff Notes version of your post?
post #1114 of 1786
Haha, it was late, and I was tired.. Maybe that post WAS a bit long winded, lol!
Surfer, I plan on having the 7604's installed by the end of this weekend, I'll definitely report the findings! I'd LOVE to put both the 7604 and 6816's in the wall, but their cutout dimensions aren't close enough to get away with that, without doing sheetrock repair! Now, I CAN honestly tell you, that I have debated installing the 6816's in the same wall, and using them as "B" main speakers out of my amp.. That way I could have one set for music, and one set for movies! ;-)
But there is NO way my wife would let me get away with 4-mains and a center, all on the same wall!!

(or would she?)........
post #1115 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by onorio56 View Post

I wasn't asking as a safe/unsafe condition but as a better sound environment.
So as to getting better sound do I insulate and/or close off the cavities?

As far as the IC do I block off any of the floor joist or let it use the full
16 x 24 foot cavity?

Hi again Onorio56,

You do not need to close of the cavities or block of any floor joist. The whole cavity is going to act as a box so unless you build the box to perfection, to the exact specs of it the speaker, it may be a wasted effort. It may actually cause a reverse effect and cause it to sound different than intended.

That is why with car audio, you will notice different subs in different boxes. Some sound better in dual band pass box, and others sound better in a closed box. You will also notice that 90% of ceiling speakers don't even have a box to begin with. Reason is, is that they are designed to use the whole ceiling space as a box.

Same with car audio speakers, you never see them in a box, because they use the trunk and door as their box. If you added a box to those, you would get a completely different sound than the way they were designed. I hope this helps!

Thanks!

John Lingo
Tech Support
Monoprice.com
post #1116 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidout67 View Post
Haha, it was late, and I was tired.. Maybe that post WAS a bit long winded, lol!
Surfer, I plan on having the 7604's installed by the end of this weekend, I'll definitely report the findings! I'd LOVE to put both the 7604 and 6816's in the wall, but their cutout dimensions aren't close enough to get away with that, without doing sheetrock repair! Now, I CAN honestly tell you, that I have debated installing the 6816's in the same wall, and using them as "B" main speakers out of my amp.. That way I could have one set for music, and one set for movies! ;-)
But there is NO way my wife would let me get away with 4-mains and a center, all on the same wall!!

(or would she?)........
there's always a chance! when I realized that a traditional 7.1 wasn't going to work, and read more about using heights with dolby IIz, I mentioned real casual-like to the wife that that would be cool, just to gauge her reaction. surprisingly, she said it would be awesome and wanted me to do it. can't wait to move into the new house...
post #1117 of 1786
Hi All,

Man this thread is crazy. Skidout67 contacted me about trying the 7604 as the center channel, as opposed to the 6317 just as an experiment. All I can say is that I was blown away at the difference. The 7604's are so much more detailed in dialogue, especially in a man's voice, or a Hutt's. I watched some of the Clone Wars on BluRay and there is so much difference between the two speakers it isn't even funny. The 7604 excells in the deeper voices of the clone troopers, some admiral on a ship, and definitely Jabba's voice. Asoka's (young girl) voice sounded pretty much the same, except that her words were much more crisp and easier to hear. I should have listened to the tech support guy when he suggested using the 7604's across the front L/C/R of my living room. I'm kicking myself now... as it turns out, Monoprice totally rocks, and is issuing me a credit for the 6317 even though I'm well past my 30 days. With that I'm buying another 7604 for my center channel and I can't wait for it to get here!

Special thanks to Skidout76 for bringing this to my attention. You da man.
post #1118 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pristas View Post

Hi All,

Man this thread is crazy. Skidout67 contacted me about trying the 7604 as the center channel, as opposed to the 6317 just as an experiment. All I can say is that I was blown away at the difference. The 7604's are so much more detailed in dialogue, especially in a man's voice, or a Hutt's. I watched some of the Clone Wars on BluRay and there is so much difference between the two speakers it isn't even funny. The 7604 excells in the deeper voices of the clone troopers, some admiral on a ship, and definitely Jabba's voice. Asoka's (young girl) voice sounded pretty much the same, except that her words were much more crisp and easier to hear. I should have listened to the tech support guy when he suggested using the 7604's across the front L/C/R of my living room. I'm kicking myself now... as it turns out, Monoprice totally rocks, and is issuing me a credit for the 6317 even though I'm well past my 30 days. With that I'm buying another 7604 for my center channel and I can't wait for it to get here!

Special thanks to Skidout76 for bringing this to my attention. You da man.

you know, every time I finally decide on what I'm going to buy, I read this thread and second guess myself! How are you planning on mounting the center 7604? Horizontally or vertically? Would it make any real aural difference (from about 10' away)? I'm interesting in doing this now, but I really think a vertically mounted center would just look too weird.
post #1119 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by seven9st surfer View Post

you know, every time I finally decide on what I'm going to buy, I read this thread and second guess myself! How are you planning on mounting the center 7604? Horizontally or vertically? Would it make any real aural difference (from about 10' away)? I'm interesting in doing this now, but I really think a vertically mounted center would just look too weird.

I am interested as well but the only way I can make this setup work is to mount it above my TV which will be above the fireplace thus placing it pretty high up.

Will that screw up the sound acoustics? The only way I can mount the L/R speakers is about 4" beside the TV because of windows. I can take a pic this evening if I can get some help/ideas before ordering.
post #1120 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by seven9st surfer View Post

you know, every time I finally decide on what I'm going to buy, I read this thread and second guess myself! How are you planning on mounting the center 7604? Horizontally or vertically? Would it make any real aural difference (from about 10' away)? I'm interesting in doing this now, but I really think a vertically mounted center would just look too weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrength View Post

I am interested as well but the only way I can make this setup work is to mount it above my TV which will be above the fireplace thus placing it pretty high up.

Will that screw up the sound acoustics? The only way I can mount the L/R speakers is about 4" beside the TV because of windows. I can take a pic this evening if I can get some help/ideas before ordering.

I think it will be fine to have the 7604 mounted horizontally. It is essentially an LCR style driver, and the speakers are all on the same axis. What you are questioning is the spread of sound. Once mounted horizontally, the sound stage will be about equal if you are standing or sitting. It's moving too far off center that would dilute the sound, but this is true for any LCR style speaker. You and I know where the "best seat in the house" is. That's why we always sit there. You probably do the same thing when you go to the movie theater. I really don't foresee any problems going horizontally with the 7604. With the amount of clarity, detail, and lower frequency gained, it will be better than most any other offering from Monoprice as a center channel. In truth, they should probably have it listed twice if they are serious about it being an LCR. It should be listed under 6.5" in-walls, and center channel in-walls. I'll report back with my exact findings once I have the 7604 installed. This will be a while, since I just sent the 6317 back, have to get a credit, then order the 7604s again.
post #1121 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pristas View Post
Hi All,

Man this thread is crazy. Skidout67 contacted me about trying the 7604 as the center channel, as opposed to the 6317 just as an experiment. All I can say is that I was blown away at the difference. The 7604's are so much more detailed in dialogue, especially in a man's voice, or a Hutt's. I watched some of the Clone Wars on BluRay and there is so much difference between the two speakers it isn't even funny. The 7604 excells in the deeper voices of the clone troopers, some admiral on a ship, and definitely Jabba's voice. Asoka's (young girl) voice sounded pretty much the same, except that her words were much more crisp and easier to hear. I should have listened to the tech support guy when he suggested using the 7604's across the front L/C/R of my living room. I'm kicking myself now... as it turns out, Monoprice totally rocks, and is issuing me a credit for the 6317 even though I'm well past my 30 days. With that I'm buying another 7604 for my center channel and I can't wait for it to get here!

Special thanks to Skidout76 for bringing this to my attention. You da man.
Since they only sell the 7604 in pairs, you are stuck paying for 2 when you only need one. I'm in the same dillema. Any ideas?
post #1122 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanb61 View Post
Since they only sell the 7604 in pairs, you are stuck paying for 2 when you only need one. I'm in the same dillema. Any ideas?
You did the right thing. By posting here, someone else will probably have the same dilemma. You can do what Skidout76 and I am doing, one person buys it, then ships the "extra" to the other person. Good luck, and if you can't find someone to sell your extra to, PM me. I am finishing a bonus room, and would like to use the 7604s there too. I'll need three of them, so yours again would become my center. This bonus room of mine is in its infancy (read: I bought some wood at Lowes and basically have to rip out the space over my garage and build a flight of stairs). So it may be a while before I really need to buy speakers...
post #1123 of 1786
Once I get my room sorted out and know it will work I will be interested in buying a single 7604 from someone.
post #1124 of 1786
I've had my 7604s in place for a few weeks now and love 'em. I'm going to order another set soon to be part of the surround system.

What I'm curious to know is which set should I get for rears?
post #1125 of 1786
Thanks all for the compliments of the write-up. I was originally going a COMPLETELY different direction, using the 8" 3-ways as L/R and the 6317 as center. Pristas got me thinking about the 7604's and I'm glad I was able to help him out as well! I plan on mounting the center horizontally, and don't anticipate any big problems. The only one I can think of, would be if a seating position was extremely past the woofer side, away from the tweeter. but my seating is a L-shape couch, so I don't think I'll have a problem.
Also, I was only able to mount my mains about 8" away from the TV on both sides, due to contruction constraints. These are flanking a 47" phillips, and I think the sound is fine. So I don't think the windows restricting your mains to be at 4" from TV will be a problem. I used the 6.5" 2-way in-ceiling speakers as surrounds, and after turning them up just a tad, think they compliment the system well.
post #1126 of 1786
Anyone do a side by side comparison of the 4101 (2-way) and the 6816 (3-way) 8" speakers? I'd also like to know if the 6816 speakers "fit" in the holes cut for the 4101 - the dimensions on the website are in inches for the 4101 and are in mm for the 6186. Don't get me wrong - I am very happy with my 4101s, but curiousity is starting to get the best of me.
post #1127 of 1786
Can't help you with the side by side comparison
Those two speakers should fit the same hole or will be very close.

http://www.convertunits.com/from/cm/to/inches
just scroll down a little ways to get the calculator cm to in
post #1128 of 1786
Skidout67, good writeup but here's an acronym for you - BLUF (bottom line up front)! lol
post #1129 of 1786
I currently have Monoprice 4100s for fronts driven by a Denon AVR-790 (90wt RMS) in my 5.1 setup. I have a few questions I'm hoping someone will know the answers to.

1) What newer model is considered an upgrade beyond the 4100 6-1/2 and still a good match for my Denon (if any)?

2) Will that newer model fit the same cutout for the existing 4100?

3) Will the 7604 (microflange 6.5 dual) fit the same cutout as the 4100? Because it's much easier to cut away more wall for a bigger speaker than patch it up for a smaller one..

Thank you!
post #1130 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlem View Post

I currently have Monoprice 4100s for fronts driven by a Denon AVR-790 (90wt RMS) in my 5.1 setup. I have a few questions I'm hoping someone will know the answers to.

1) What newer model is considered an upgrade beyond the 4100 6-1/2 and still a good match for my Denon (if any)?

2) Will that newer model fit the same cutout for the existing 4100?

3) Will the 7604 (microflange 6.5 dual) fit the same cutout as the 4100? Because it's much easier to cut away more wall for a bigger speaker than patch it up for a smaller one..

Thank you!

1) The 7604 seems to be a favorite, and going by the specs (and some reviews on this page), it seems to be an upgrade for you

2) nope (see 3)

3)4100 cutout - 10.71" x 7.32"
7604 cutout - 13" x 7.09'"

Looks like the 7604 is taller but narrower than your 4100. gonna have to do a little patching
post #1131 of 1786
surfer thanks a lot for helping out with those questions!
post #1132 of 1786
well, I finally bit the bullet and made an order. The highlights are 2 pairs of 7604 for LRCs (1 speaker left over), 2 pairs of 4929 for side and back surround, and enough wire and connectors to make everything completely in-wall, without a wire visible, including the subwoofer. Also bought a Samsung UN55D6400 which should be here around the same time as the speakers, just in time for the weekend. Thanks to all here for the help in deciding on what to finally get. I'll try to get pics of the finished product up when I finally get everything set up
post #1133 of 1786
Would it cause any problems if I mounted a 7604 horizontally for my center?
I have space restraints and dont know if it will fit vertically.
post #1134 of 1786
Thanks for all of the info... putting together a new 7.1 setup for a basement home theater. I'm thinking of using the 7604's for L/C/R, based on suggestions in this thread. I have the same dilemma, though... what to do with the extra speaker (since the 7604's come in pairs).

What about a L/C/C/R setup, running the C/C in series? The 7604 is only 6 Ohms, so the series combo would be 12 Ohms. My receiver puts out 110W@8Ohms, which is equivalent to 73W@12Ohms. The 7604 is an 80W speaker. Sounds like a pretty good plan... ???

I'm putting in a 100" screen, so there's a lot of horizontal space. With a screen that wide, I don't think it'd look too strange at all to have 2 speakers across the bottom.

Thoughts?
post #1135 of 1786
I'm a bit confused in this thread now coming back, so many model numbers. What is the right in-wall ceiling speakers that everyone seems to like? (circle not square please)
post #1136 of 1786
First off, this is an excellent and very helpful thread. We're doing some remodeling and will have access before they sheetrock. Thinking about 7604 for L/R/C and 4929's for backs and surrounds.

In other rooms, I'm looking for round speakers of some sort for a Sonos setup. The rooms are kitchen, living room and bathroom. Do I need pairs in these rooms? Any suggestions on specific speaker models and setups?

Thanks.
post #1137 of 1786
I am trying to set up 5.1 system and the room is 22X22 plus two stories tall. I spoke with Monoprice Tech rep and they highly recommended 6816 over 7604 because of the size of the room, etc. My other worry is that I am trying to drive these with an old Kenwood receiver that is 100W max for 6 Ohms speakers. I currently have Definitive Tech and they sound excellent but are not in wall. I see that on this thread, folks are leaning towards 7604 but based on my situation, could someone comment which way I should go? Would a larger room tilt the balance towards 6816? OTH my receiver may not be able to support the large 6816s well, so I might have to change the receiver as well. I am leaning towards 2 pairs of 7604 plus 6317 Center and 4928 as the Sub. But the monoprice Tech rep is confusing me. Any help from the members of this great forum would be appreciated as I am trying to buy these in next day or two.
post #1138 of 1786
Thanks all for this great thread.

i'm looking to put a home theater setup in my family room (5.1) and ambience speakers in several rooms of the house as well

looks like the 7604s is a crowd favourite here so i'm planning to go with those for the fronts.

For the center, i notice some of you use 7604 side ways rather than go with a center speaker like 4881 or 6317?

as for the rears, and ambience speakers, it looks like some of you are going with 7604s as well, or am i reading it wrong?
post #1139 of 1786
Hi everyone!

Just purchased a Denon 2311CI receiver and set it up for use with my MonoPrice speakers. I am wondering what your crossover findings are for your speakers, but in particular, the center channel 4881. Mine was set pretty low. I am using the 8" 2-way in wall speakers for my front L/R mains as well as my L/R surrounds, rear surrounds are the in-ceiling 8" speakers.

FL/FR = 110hz
C = 40hz
SL/SR = 150 hz
BSL/BSR = 120hz

Audyssey was run multiple times, with the same results. Is 40hz too low?

Thanks for your help!
post #1140 of 1786
Does anyone have these installed on an exterior wall? What are the precautions taken? My only choice is an exterior wall in my living room unfortunately.
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