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Monoprice in-wall, in-ceiling speakers - Page 45

post #1321 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babypimin View Post


Hey mxpx5678,

Thanks for the response. This is very helpful.
Would I better off simply doing a 4 speaker system (4.1 with a phantom centre as someone above mentioned?) or even a 2 speaker system (2.1)?
Or with the 4929's, would I be able to possibly just pass on the sub and go with a 4.0 or 2.0 system?

Again I'm not looking for a killer system in this spot. I'm looking for a very clean look with simply an upgrade on the TV speakers.

Thanks in advance!

Are you not able to do a real center channel?
post #1322 of 1786
Advice needed please........I haven't been satisfied with the various center speakers I've had (Polk CS1 and CS10), due to low output during dialogue and overwhelming output during action scenes. I had to constantly increase/decrease the volume during movies. Over the past 4 years I tried just about every combination of EQ and crossover setting on my AVR (Onkyo 705). I used both Audyssey and manual settings to calibrate.

I have a 7.1 system and I've been really happy with my other speakers 4101's for L/R and surrounds, 4104's for backs, and a STF-2 sub (HSU research).

This weekend I installed a 7604 for my center and last night was the first time my family watched a movie with our new center. It sounded nice (better than the Polks), but the highs were slightly lacking, compared to the 4101 L/R (even after tweaking the EQ). In the quest for achieving perfection using Monoprice speakers, I really want my front sound-stage to be the best it can be. I'm seriously considering doing something that most people would not consider........using the 4101 as a center. I've tried both the 2-way (4101) and 3-way (6816) 8-inch speakers for L/R and the 4101s sound better. Even my wife could tell the difference. So I'm not considering the 6816 for a center at this point.

Maybe using the 7604 with the 4101s is fine, but with all the experience we have here, it can't hurt to hear what others think. Here's what I'm considering:

1) Nothing, keep it as is.
2) Replace the 7604 center with a 4101.
3) Replace the 7604 center with a 4881, or 6317.

Thanks in advance for the advice.
post #1323 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post

Are you not able to do a real center channel?

I would like to, but it's quite painful to throw a speaker into the mix when the fireplace surround will look so much better clutter free of speakers.
post #1324 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babypimin View Post


I would like to, but it's quite painful to throw a speaker into the mix when the fireplace surround will look so much better clutter free of speakers.

Well in ceiling will be passable. Just try and get it as close to the tv as possible.
post #1325 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by onorio56 View Post

so, would you only use one side of the speaker connectors on the Pyle OR would you have to run 2 subs

No you'd have the two RCA's side of the Y-cable plugged into the amp and then the one RCA side of the Y cable plugged into your subwoofer pre-out on the receiver. If you look at the pic from the link below you'll see two subwoofer outs, one is for a powered sub woofer and one is a pre-out for an passive subwoofer:

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=onkyo...1t:429,r:1,s:0

I purchased the following RCA male to female Y-cable for the job. I'll attach the Y-cable to a regular set of RCA male to male cables and I should be all set.

I've read somewhere on AVS that it may not be necessary to utilize both the line outs on the amp when using it to power a passive sub, but I can't seem to recall where I found it. In any event, the Pyle tech support indicated one should use both line outs on the amp when hooking it up to a passive subwoofer.

smithmal
post #1326 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post

Well in ceiling will be passable. Just try and get it as close to the tv as possible.

I'm hoping the phantom speaker arrangement should work well (for me at least). The way it's done is when selecting your speakers on the receiver, make sure the receiver indicates "No Center Used" or something like that and it should automatically push the center speaker audio to the front L & R.

I've read that certain receivers have a technology known as HRTF which excel with Phantom Centers, but I haven't found any recent models which provide this. I spoke to Onkyo tech support about this and they indicated that HRTF is new technology and they didn't currently have in any of their receivers. This link indicates that HRTF was present on older Pioneers but has since been removed.

I've just purchased a Onkyo HT-RC360 (7.2) and am hoping that it can push the center audio decently to the front L/F but we'll see. According to Onkyo the best receivers for this are their 509/609 line, but I wasn't real confident in the knowledge from the tech rep. I was speaking with.

Does anyone know which decode would work best with a 4.1 arrangement? According to a poster from the link above the best would be DD5.1 or DTS5.1.
post #1327 of 1786
I have an extra 7604 being delivered to me on 12/27 if anyone is interested let me know. This is a single speaker i'm using the other one for my center channel.
post #1328 of 1786
In my bedroom I ordered monoprice 7604 to put in LRC and intend to put in a couple of rears or sides in the ceiling since I have easy access to the attic. The issue that I am confronted with for my L&R speakers is that due to closet and entry doors I can not put the L&R the same distance away from the TV. One might be around 2.5 ft away and the other might be about 5 feet away on the other side. Is this OK? Would it be a better option to put the L&R in the ceiling between joists and close to the TV maybe 3 feet away on either side( and one foot in front?)? If I do put them in the cieling, for those familiar with Monoprice, would I be better off with the 4929 which have a 15 degree angled tweeter than the 7604s?

Because of the price differential I ordered the 4104s for the sides or rears. Are there any concerns about these speakers matched with the 7604's for music? I am not worried about HT for this setup

Thanks in advance for any replies!
post #1329 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithmal View Post

I'm hoping the phantom speaker arrangement should work well (for me at least). The way it's done is when selecting your speakers on the receiver, make sure the receiver indicates "No Center Used" or something like that and it should automatically push the center speaker audio to the front L & R.

I've read that certain receivers have a technology known as HRTF which excel with Phantom Centers, but I haven't found any recent models which provide this. I spoke to Onkyo tech support about this and they indicated that HRTF is new technology and they didn't currently have in any of their receivers. This link indicates that HRTF was present on older Pioneers but has since been removed.

I've just purchased a Onkyo HT-RC360 (7.2) and am hoping that it can push the center audio decently to the front L/F but we'll see. According to Onkyo the best receivers for this are their 509/609 line, but I wasn't real confident in the knowledge from the tech rep. I was speaking with.

Does anyone know which decode would work best with a 4.1 arrangement? According to a poster from the link above the best would be DD5.1 or DTS5.1.


If placement issues or music listening will be more of your focus, then I wouldn't rule out a phantom center setup. If movie watching is of greater importance to you, then I'd find a way to include a center channel. The surround format, as intended for movies, was designed to be executed with a center channel- not phantom center.
post #1330 of 1786
This thread has been incredibly helpful. Thank you to everyone for sharing your experiences.

Am I crazy to consider a 4101 as a center? I'm currently using a 7604 and it just doesn't timber match with the 4101s. After tweaking the EQ and bumping the db level all the way up on my receiver for the center, it lacks the "umph" and brightness of the 4101s. Perhaps it's due the difference in ohm ratings?! I have an Onkyo 705 (100 watts per channel), so the 7604 is getting the power it needs. If going with a 4101 is out of the question, my next choice would be a 4881. Any advice or opinions would be appreciated. I've posed the same questions to Monoprice, but they haven't responded yet.
post #1331 of 1786
To those of us who care about good sound quality, in-wall & in-ceiling speakers are crimes against humanity and the people selling them should be put on trial at the Hague.
post #1332 of 1786
Thats a pretty strong, totally bias statement....why you would even post this is beyond me.

I am sure that you are aware there are many in-wall speakers than can produce as good as or better sound than box speakers.

In-wall/ceiling also provide owners with a way to handle difficult situations where its nearly impossible to use anything else. Or if you are looking for a very clean look, ie WAF.

Oh yeah, who made you god or put you in charge of all things sound.
Geez, I hope that was just a joke post.
post #1333 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by onorio56 View Post

Thats a pretty strong, totally bias statement....why you would even post this is beyond me.

I am sure that you are aware there are many in-wall speakers than can produce as good as or better sound than box speakers.

In-wall/ceiling also provide owners with a way to handle difficult situations where its nearly impossible to use anything else. Or if you are looking for a very clean look, ie WAF.

Oh yeah, who made you god or put you in charge of all things sound.
Geez, I hope that was just a joke post.

That was mostly a funny post which happens to have some truth to it. I've never heard an in-wall speaker best an in-room speaker. In-ceiling speakers are always terrible. I can forgive in-wall speakers when there are no alternatives or the wifey won't let speakers be visible. In-walls are a last resort, not a choice for people looking for the best result.

There is an exception. If you have rounded pillars in your room and you install an in-wall into a pillar, you can actually make an improvement over in-room speakers. So, not all in-wall scenarios are going to be inferior, just most of them.
post #1334 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by zing1973 View Post

Advice needed please........I haven't been satisfied with the various center speakers I've had (Polk CS1 and CS10), due to low output during dialogue and overwhelming output during action scenes. I had to constantly increase/decrease the volume during movies. Over the past 4 years I tried just about every combination of EQ and crossover setting on my AVR (Onkyo 705). I used both Audyssey and manual settings to calibrate.

I have a 7.1 system and I've been really happy with my other speakers 4101's for L/R and surrounds, 4104's for backs, and a STF-2 sub (HSU research).

This weekend I installed a 7604 for my center and last night was the first time my family watched a movie with our new center. It sounded nice (better than the Polks), but the highs were slightly lacking, compared to the 4101 L/R (even after tweaking the EQ). In the quest for achieving perfection using Monoprice speakers, I really want my front sound-stage to be the best it can be. I'm seriously considering doing something that most people would not consider........using the 4101 as a center. I've tried both the 2-way (4101) and 3-way (6816) 8-inch speakers for L/R and the 4101s sound better. Even my wife could tell the difference. So I'm not considering the 6816 for a center at this point.

Maybe using the 7604 with the 4101s is fine, but with all the experience we have here, it can't hurt to hear what others think. Here's what I'm considering:

1) Nothing, keep it as is.
2) Replace the 7604 center with a 4101.
3) Replace the 7604 center with a 4881, or 6317.

Thanks in advance for the advice.

I just pulled the trigger on a 4881. I chickened out on going with a 4101 for a center. I'll let everyone know what I think of the 4881 in comparison to the 7604. If I'm still not sastified, I'll have to patch the drywall and try the 4101. It's pretty damn frustrating being content with all speakers except the center. A song comes to mind. Mick Jagger's I can't get no......satis-faction.
post #1335 of 1786
Ok, got the 4881 installed and I'm happy with it. Before removing the 7604, I listened to scenes from Transformers. Almost all dialog was coming from the 5.25 inch speaker that has the embedded tweeter. I could here a little low end bass coming out of the 6.5 inch speaker when Optimus spoke. After installing the 4881, I listened to the same scenes. Dialog was coming from both 5.25 inch speakers and the highs were clearer. One unexpected bonus was that the tweeter on the 4881 is aimable (a Monoprice tech told me it wasn't). I reduced the tremble, whereas with the 7604, I had it all the way up. Two cons or room for improvement......1) The 4881 is not microflanged, so the outer trim is about 5/8 to 3/4 inch compared to 1/4 inch on the 7604. This is only an aesthetic issue if you are using microflanged L/R. Since I'm using 4101s for my L/R, it isn't an issue. 2) The 4881 doesn't produce the lower end (between 50 and 65 Hz) that the 7604 has. These frequencies are produced by the 6.5 inch speaker on the 7604.

I said it before.....this thread has been incredibly helpful. More so than what you get from the Monoprice techs. When I asked them "technical" questions about the speakers, they regurgitated canned responses. All I could think was, "Thanks Captain Obvious".

That said, I have a 2 week old 7604 up for sale. PM me if you're interested.
post #1336 of 1786
Just installed 2 4103 speakers in my master bathroom, the install was only difficult because it required crawling over a lot of stuff in my attic.. Other than that it was pretty easy. Bought some in wall rated speaker wire from MonoPrice too and fished the wire through the wall. All in all it looks good and sounds pretty decent.

I paired this up with the bluetooth music receiver they also sell so I have a nice "wireless" system that can play music while i get ready in the morning.
LL
post #1337 of 1786
Has anyone built or found boxes for the in ceiling speakers? I think they would sound much better with boxes behind them
post #1338 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx5678 View Post

Has anyone built or found boxes for the in ceiling speakers? I think they would sound much better with boxes behind them

I have two 4104s and thought about it, but I haven't done it. This is going to "sound" crazy, but I have a 5-gallon bucket over each speaker. My intent was to use the buckets to see if they sounded better enclosed, but I never got around to doing a comparison. My 4104s are rear surrounds, and I strictly use my system for movies. They sound good to me and since I use a sub, I don't notice if they lack bass. If I used them for music, I would be more concerned.
post #1339 of 1786
I recently discovered that my cheapo Polk speakers that I've had since I was in college are failing. In fact, one is blown completely. So I'm thinking about purchasing a full set of Monoprice in wall speakers at the same time as I hang my TV on the wall. I would do 2 6816's for my front L and R. A 6317 for center speaker. And then 4 6816's for my rear surround. I have a couple of questions though.

First, I am limited in my room since it is open to one side and my couch is right up against the back wall. For mounting should I just place all 4 surround speakers in the wall right behind the couch at ear level?

Second, I am concerned about the center channel. I am running an Onkyo TX-SR608 receiver which is rated at 100 W per channel. However I see the 6317 center speaker is only rated for 80 W max. Would this be a problem? The rest of the speakers would be fine because they're rated for 100 W nominal and 200 W max.
post #1340 of 1786
Amazing thread -- takes a LONG time to read all 45 pages. Thanks to everyone for your input. I've never done this before so I have quite a few questions.

First, room set up and equipment:
Dimensions: 17' deep, 13' wide, 10' ceilings (perfect rectangle)
Projector: Acer H7531D DLP Home Theater Projector (1080P)
Receiver: Denon AVR-1507
Screen: TBD, thinking somewhere around 100"
Speakers: Have 1 7604 thus far to use as center, thinking of ordering 4/6 more (see below)

Room was prewired for 5.1 but I believe this receiver allows for 7.1 Need to read up and see if it would be worth running the extra speaker wire for the 2 additional channels. L/C/R are on front wall about 6 feet high. I am assuming I'll be happier with the sides being lower and the center getting lowered to just above or below my screen?

Surround speakers are prewired for side walls about 6 feet high as well and approx 4 feet forward of the back wall. Can I make this location work or would I be happier with them in the ceiling or elsewhere?

I am planning on ordering at least one more pair of 7604s for right and left, but what is recommended for my rears? Seems like opinions on all of the other options are all relatively good. 7604s? 7605s? 4929s with angled woofer?

Can I use the old powered sub I got with a Sony HTIB set up for now?

Thanks again to every person who has contributed to this valuable thread thus far, and thanks in advance to anyone who can provide me advice on my specific situation.
post #1341 of 1786
Hi just want to make sure what im ordering will be best. Already have it prewired with wires sticking out walls.
I have it wired for 3 separate inwall speakers on each side with a center below the TV plus a set of rears.

So was thinking
TOP > 7606 -5-1/4 Inches 3-Way High Power In-Wall Speaker (Pair)
MIDDLE > 7604 -6-1/2 Inches Dual Woofer- Micro Flange In-Wall Speaker (Pair)
BOTTEM > 4928 -10 Inches In-Wall Subwoofer (Passive)

CENTER > 6317 -5-1/4 Inches Center Channel Micro-Flanged In-Wall Speaker - 8 Ohm

REAR > 7604 -6-1/2 Inches Dual Woofer- Micro Flange In-Wall Speaker (Pair)

For now ill be using Denon 1907 reciever
post #1342 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotzostuff View Post


First, room set up and equipment:
Dimensions: 17' deep, 13' wide, 10' ceilings (perfect rectangle)
Projector: Acer H7531D DLP Home Theater Projector (1080P)
Receiver: Denon AVR-1507
Screen: TBD, thinking somewhere around 100"
Speakers: Have 1 7604 thus far to use as center, thinking of ordering 4/6 more (see below)

Room was prewired for 5.1 but I believe this receiver allows for 7.1 Need to read up and see if it would be worth running the extra speaker wire for the 2 additional channels.

The general concensus on the forums seems to be that the benefits of 7.1 over 5.1 are rather marginal - many "experts" seem to suggest spending more on upgrading 5.1 speakers over adding rear channels. There is a vocal minority, however, who do love the 7.1. I don't really have an opinion one way or the other since I've never had a 7.1 setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotzostuff View Post

L/C/R are on front wall about 6 feet high. I am assuming I'll be happier with the sides being lower and the center getting lowered to just above or below my screen?

The usual advice is to place the LCR at about ear level if possible, so the answer to your question is probably yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotzostuff View Post

Surround speakers are prewired for side walls about 6 feet high as well and approx 4 feet forward of the back wall. Can I make this location work or would I be happier with them in the ceiling or elsewhere?

That sounds just fine for the surrounds .... the usual advice is that they be placed a bit above ear level (say, 2 to 3 feet) and just behind the listener position ... they may be a foot or two high over optimum there, but I wouldn't worry about it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotzostuff View Post

I am planning on ordering at least one more pair of 7604s for right and left, but what is recommended for my rears? Seems like opinions on all of the other options are all relatively good. 7604s? 7605s? 4929s with angled woofer?

Most of the experts seem to recommend in-wall over in-ceiling, so if you go 7.1, I'd probably stick with an in-wall installation and use the 7604s. Personally, I don't think it matters that much though, especially for rears, and if for cosmetic reasons you wanted to do an in-ceiling installation, either of the in-ceilings should be fine. I have a pair of the 4929s installed in my kitchen ceiling for 2.0 music, and I think the angled woofer would work well for rears, pointed toward the listening position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotzostuff View Post

Can I use the old powered sub I got with a Sony HTIB set up for now?

Why not? If you don't like the way it sounds, then you can just upgrade whenever you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotzostuff View Post

Thanks again to every person who has contributed to this valuable thread thus far, and thanks in advance to anyone who can provide me advice on my specific situation.

I'm not an expert, so take my advice with that in mind, but I have read quite a bit on the forums over the past 6 months, and I'm not bad at regurgitating what I've read.
post #1343 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfire View Post

Hi just want to make sure what im ordering will be best. Already have it prewired with wires sticking out walls.
I have it wired for 3 separate inwall speakers on each side with a center below the TV plus a set of rears.

So was thinking
TOP > 7606 -5-1/4 Inches 3-Way High Power In-Wall Speaker (Pair)
MIDDLE > 7604 -6-1/2 Inches Dual Woofer- Micro Flange In-Wall Speaker (Pair)
BOTTEM > 4928 -10 Inches In-Wall Subwoofer (Passive)

CENTER > 6317 -5-1/4 Inches Center Channel Micro-Flanged In-Wall Speaker - 8 Ohm

REAR > 7604 -6-1/2 Inches Dual Woofer- Micro Flange In-Wall Speaker (Pair)

For now ill be using Denon 1907 reciever

Top, middle, bottom? OK, the bottom I kind of get (it's your subwoofer), but top and middle? I suppose that can be done, but I don't know, that's pretty adventurous in my mind. What made you go with that configuration?
post #1344 of 1786
FYI Monoprice has the 4103 (6.5 in in ceiling) on sale for $32.09. Wish I knew this 24 hours ago.

Tony
post #1345 of 1786
Has anybody used any of these for their in ceiling speakers?
http://www.atlassound.com/ProductCat...?id=389&pI=352

Thinking about putting these behind my in ceilings i just installed.
post #1346 of 1786
I have read the thread. I am very interested in getting some of these as an upgrade. I currently have an Integra DTR-5.8 which is rated at 7 channels @ 90W min into 8 ohm it seems. I am keeping that.

I have a 7.1 set up with what I think are some basic in walls and in ceiling speakers. I have a separate sub. I will try and post a pic of one of the in walls later. It looks like a no name something to me. The sub is a brand - I will have to look later.

Anyway, I am thinking of getting a pair of the 6816 for LR and a 7604 for center. The remainder of the surrounds i need to do also but I wanted to get the front stage set up and see the change.

Reading the positive comments on the 7604 it seems a good fit for center and even LR. I want to try the 6816 I think because they are 3 way and also did a good job.

Any comments appreciated.


post #1347 of 1786
I'm trying to decided between 2 different speakers; The 4104 and 4929, for my in-ceiling rears in my 5.1 set up.

any suggestions or experience with either one?

Thanks,
post #1348 of 1786
I'm using 4103's for in-ceiling rears in 2 rooms as well as music pairs in my house and they sounds very good. I wanted to keep the size at 6.5 especially for rears which don't carry a heavy workload. My drywall is also only 1/2" so I wanted to keep things lighter. I imagine 4104 would sound good too.
post #1349 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by nr1416 View Post

I'm trying to decided between 2 different speakers; The 4104 and 4929, for my in-ceiling rears in my 5.1 set up.

any suggestions or experience with either one?

Thanks,

Honestly I would go with the 4103. It is on sale right now. You arent going to notice hardly any difference in your rears if you go up to an 8inch woofer. Almost all of the bass is going to be handled by your sub anyways. The only reason I would go with one of the bigger woofers is if you were going to seal them and you were in need of more low end from your rears. In that case go with the 4104 but like I said I would be shocked if you noticed a difference between the 4104 and the 4103.
post #1350 of 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickster View Post

I have read the thread. I am very interested in getting some of these as an upgrade. I currently have an Integra DTR-5.8 which is rated at 7 channels @ 90W min into 8 ohm it seems. I am keeping that.

I have a 7.1 set up with what I think are some basic in walls and in ceiling speakers. I have a separate sub. I will try and post a pic of one of the in walls later. It looks like a no name something to me. The sub is a brand - I will have to look later.

Anyway, I am thinking of getting a pair of the 6816 for LR and a 7604 for center. The remainder of the surrounds i need to do also but I wanted to get the front stage set up and see the change.

Reading the positive comments on the 7604 it seems a good fit for center and even LR. I want to try the 6816 I think because they are 3 way and also did a good job.

Any comments appreciated.



If you have the room I would recommend a good Center channel that is not in wall. For the rear surrounds I would recommend the 4103. And then yes for the L/R speakers the 6816 or 7604 looks fine. These in wall / ceiling speakers sound good, but not nearly as good as traditional speakers.
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