Monoprice in-wall, in-ceiling speakers - Page 22

Yes, the 4ohm business choked me up a bit too. If it weren't for that I would have ordered the microflanged version, but not for the microflange. It appears that the microflange version has a nicer crossover, and possibly better components throughout.

The width isn't going to matter much since our install is going to be quite destructive and then intensly reconstructive. We're going to build custom framing for the speakers and the tv. It's not a load bearing wall, so we have a little more freedom.

One more concern you may want to consider between using the D'Appolito speakers for L/C/R verses just for C with L/R being the 8" in-walls is that they may not timber-match. I don't know if anyone can confirm or deny this, and I certainly wouldn't rely on monoprice for this information. It's just another thing to consider.

I know that they use different woofer and different tweeter drivers in many of their units. This is clearly seen because some of them are yellow, and some are black! Whether or not these timber-match is what I am not sure of. Timber-matching can be guaranteed by using 3x exactly the same speaker. My inclination would be to use 3x the 8" units and turn one sideways. This probably introduces a slew of new problems with imaging and whatnot, but timber-matching is one thing that my ears are particularly sensitive to. I don't notice it as much with surround speakers (because they are used much less frequently versus the L/C/R).

Good points, thanks. And that's exactly the benefit I was referring to (3x the same speaker for L/C/R). Monoprice speakers are so cheap that I bought both and will try. And I hope the Audyssey will compensate for timbre as well as range.

Another choice I'm going to test is whether to do Height Extension or Rear Surrounds. My avr-1910 will only do one or the other, but I can wire them both to a switch (and also tell the Denon which processing to send out those channels).

Jmagee, I do not believe that Audyssey corrects for timber. However, the speakers in our delivery use yellow drivers (4102) and black drivers (4881) and they timber match to my satisfaction. YMMV and this is only heuristic when it comes to predicting timber matching with the 8” in-walls.

I want to correct a detail I failed to mention in my box design numbers before. Those boxes were designed using heavy internal stuffing. Changing the stuffing has a measurable impact on the response.

We decided not to construct boxes for the 4881's due to surprises behind the drywall and satisfactory response during test fitting. Cheif among the reasons to not build boxes was that audio contamination of other rooms was negligible in our test fitting trial.

I have composed 6 different box designs for PID 4102. Boxes 1 and 2 are designed for maximum output at the lower end, with no versus heavy stuffing. Boxes 3 and 4 are designed for maximum fidelity, with no versus heavy stuffing. Boxes 5 and 6 were designed for a target F3 of 85Hz. This was not possible with heavy or even medium stuffing, so they use no versus minimal stuffing.





The response boosts in Boxes 1 and 2 occur at too high of frequencies to be desirable. Boxes 1, 2, and 4 have F3’s above 99Hz. These are not desirable since home theatre low frequency crossovers occur around 80Hz (typically).

Boxes 3, 5, and 6 have virtually identical response graphs. Their F3’s are 84.6 Hz for box 3, and 85Hz for boxes 5 and 6. Their stuffing is none or minimal. Their volumes range from 10.45 L to 12.7 L. So you can see that they are fairly similar boxes. Our chosen box will be box design 3, or something reasonably close to it.

I looked at this, and ended up turning mine vertical. My seating does not require a wide dispersion.



I used the 8" for mains and the 5 1/4 for center. They match pretty well. The black has fiberglass woofers also, not sure if they are kevlar though.


The pivoting tweeters work pretty well. It does make a difference to pivot them, and if you don't have EQ the switch attenuators are a nice addition as these speakers are very bright.

Overall I am impressed and pleased, I have had to dampen the upper frequencies heavily since these speakers are very bright. In their defense though my room is very reflective.

It's not just your room, these speakers are VERY bright. I have the front L&R installed and playing the radio while we work. They are quite bright.

7.1 System:

I am definitelly ordering four 8" in-ceiling speakers from Monoprice, and two 6" for Presence speakers.

The question is what to do for my center and Main L & R.

So, what would be the best hi-fi bookshelf speaker to pair up with the Monoprice surrounds?

ALSO, no one seems to be buying the Monoprice center speaker. WHY NOT?

I was considering 2 center speakers side by side however on my RX-V1900 forum they're calling me crazy, not only for wanting two, but for even considering Monoprice at all!!!

Also Monoprice is now offering an 8 ohm version of the center speaker. Which one should I buy and why: the 4 ohm or the 8 ohm?
(Again, in the RX-V1900 forum everyone went all techie-head crazy and could not give me a straight up answer.)

BASS. Why hasn't anyone mentioned their passive in-wall sub-woofers? Are they worth considering? I wanted to install the 10", but realized that they're only filler sub-woofers, and I would still require a powered sub which I do not have...

Again - Please recommend one that would go nicely with this setup.

Thanks everyone!

My core questions:

1. Please recommend hi-fi bookshelf speakers that sound great with Monoprice surrounds and center.
2. Are the Monoprice center speakers any good?
3. 4 ohm or 8ohm center speaker?
4. 10" passive subwoofer any good, worth buying?

I am tempted to go with Bose 301 for my bookshelf speakers... will these sound good with the Monoprice surrounds with a Yamaha Rx-V1900 amp?

Also considering the Bose 191 in-walls instead of Monoprice. Only thing is that it's $360 CDN per pair and I want a 7.1 system... is it worth the upgraded price?

http://www.bose.ca/controller?url=/s...kers/index.jsp

If I were to buy one pair of Bose 191 and one pair of Monoprice 8" for surrounds, which would get preference for mid or rear? Which is more important?

My brother picked up some The speaker company mtm speakers and they sounded pretty good for the budget minded.

I've got a brand new set of 191's that were purchased for my home theater before I changed the layout. Will sell for $230 USD plus shipping. If interested, PM me at lotusguy@gmail.com

What are you guys doing for Center channel? Laying an 8 inch horizontally (doesn't seem like the best thing)? Getting a 5 1/2 Center to go with 8 in-walls for L / R - how does that match? Getting three in-walls regular and putting your Center vertical (doesn't "look" great)?

Thanks!

Until Monoprice introduced the center channel, going with the 3 in-walls was the way to do it. Plus, a vertical center channel usually offers better sound anyway.

Aesthetically, I don't see how a vertical bar above or below your display looks any worse than a horizontal bar above or below your display. Moreover, if you install your speakers for maximum audio goodness, your left, center and right channels are all at the same height anyway.

The wall hasn't had mud or paint yet, but you get the idea. This is 3x PID 4881 for the L/C/R. I think that these look great vertical for the L/R, and great horizontal for the C. They sound good. They do not sound as good as my bookshelf-sized 5.1 system.

Hmm.

It looks like only the center channel is sold individually.

I was originally thinking of purchasing :

3x PID 4101 [8" In-Wall]
2x PID 4104 [8" In-Ceiling]

Not sure if I am better off throwing the extra 8" In-Wall somewhere else in the house, or just buying a 5-1/4" Center channel.
Probably would be a fair degree better going 8" all around, eh? The 5-1/4" center seems like it would complement the 5-6" In-walls, but the 8" is considerably larger.


That is subjective. I think a horizontally aligned center channel looks better. It sort of "frames" the TV.

For a center channel a mtm design has many advantages, or the deappolito array. Vertical is ultimately preferred but has a narrow dispersion, horizontal for a wider viewing area. Do a search, bottom line the 8" will integrate with the 5 1/4s fine.

Okay, so I have the okay to do the in-wall speakers. As I have some drywall off, now is the time to install cabling and speakers and run electrical to where I will, eventually, mount the TV. I was thinking of using the Monoprice speakers (8" kevlar, 4101's) for front and rear L/R then getting a center channel, was thinking of picking up a center from MP as well (however, I can't figure out why the 8 ohm is only 40 watts continuous and the 4 ohm is 80 watts as neither seems a good a fit to the 4104's).

However, I think I am running into two problems for the center channel, one is a space problem as it will be above a mantel over a fireplace and it seems I will be physically running out of space with the TV I'd like to mount there. But seemingly even more insurmountable, seems to be the wife doesn't want a center channel 'cause of looks.

I guess I have a couple of questions then; has anyone had good luck running these speakers with either a TV speaker system (ouch, I can't believe I'm asking this) or some small unobtrusive sound bar under the TV? If a sound bar would work, which one has?

On a related but different note, since I'm wiring for a TV and audio equipment, what connections should I be worried about now-a-days? It seems HDMI and component would a requirement at the TV level, what else? Ethernet? Coax? Extra center channel outputs for later ?

The wall plate leading into the wall (receiver level) will obviously have requisite wall speaker inputs and whatever else I run to the TV. Am I overlooking anything?

I've been following this thread and pulled the trigger on two 8" ceiling units (monoprice PID 4104). I haven't installed them in the ceiling yet, but I hooked them up to my receiver (Yamaha RX-V565 if anyone cares) and I must say I was not impressed. The auto adjust feature on the receiver did say that one was out of phase, but it didn't really sound much better than the other one. Compared to the display units at a local best buy, these units sounded much worse. Bass was almost non-existant and mid & high tones were sort of muffled. I'm no audiophile, but the difference was stark.

I was thinking that they might sound bad because i had them sitting on the floor with the speaker side facing up. Would that matter? I've ordered a pair of 6 1/2" polk RC60i's to compare with. hopefully there's just something going on with the phase or something. Anyone else have a similar experience? With all the positive feedback on these I figure I'm probably doing something wrong.

Thanks for the quick response. So compared to regular car speakers (nothing fancy) these guys should sound pretty good? I was worried last night testing them out and having them sound worse than a $40 ipod dock we use in the kitchen. I'll try testing them while holding them up with something to see if they sound better. The phase problem probably also has something to do with it too.

I'm going to have to figure out what the frak I'm doing wrong then. Maybe I'm using bad speaker wire or something... I'll post what I find.

Any speaker needs to be mounted or it will sound like crap. The sound waves from the back, which are out of phase with the waves in the front will cancel each other out to some extent, especially bass.

Mount them in the ceiling and the difference will be immediate.

So I tested the speakers again. I reconnected the speaker wire and then held them up in the air by the mounting brackets while playing some music. Immediately I noticed a significant difference. They sounded significantly better... duh.

I was lucky enough to cancel the order for the Polk Audio RC60i's before they shipped. Once these are installed, I'll add some final impressions. Since this is my first surround sound build, I don't have significant experience, however, to my untrained ear the monoprice speakers seemed to match quite well with my other speakers, all Polk Audio. In case anyone cares, I went with the CS10 for center, Monitor 40's for Front R & L, and a PSW10 sub. The monoprice 8" will be in-ceiling for the rears. I'm really excited to get them all installed.

how do they compare helos 20

Thanks for the input. I'm excited to get this project going although this is going to take a while before all the components are in place. One step at a time I guess. My speakers and at least some cabling should be here Tuesday from Monoprice.

BTW, I love your stone mantle. Very cool.

Great thread. Newbie questions -
1) Any downside to using rectangular 6.5" Monoprice 4100's as in ceiling speakers?
2) I'm building a house and drywall will go on in 3 weeks - any cool way to identify speaker wires in ceiling after drywall? I'm thinking of this: http://www.homecontrols.com/Single-G...Mud-Ring-OEMR1
3) Do speakers with the swing out tabs get supported by drywall only? No need for stud attachment, blocking or reinforcement?
4) How does one use an in-wall sub? Do you use the sub output on a receiver to a single channel amp? Do any quality receivers provide a powered sub output? Set me straight on this since I'd like to avoid furniture type subs.

1)Straight edges (rectangles) fit visually on walls, while circles fit visually on ceilings. There may also been some ceiling vs wall acoustic engineering, but maybe not.
2)Run the wires before the drywall. Run 3-5 feet extra at each end. Document where the wires are relative to the studs. Use a stud finder to find the studs after the drywall is up. Cut your speaker holes in the appropriate locations on the drywall...voila! There are your wires waiting for you.
3)Correct.
4)If you are talking about the inwall subwoofers from Monoprice, they are not actually subwoofers. You will be dissapointed with them. You would power a passive subwoofer like this: Sub pre-out -> separate power amplifyer -> passive subwoofer.
A real in-wall subwoofer is going to set you back some big $$$.

Excellent. Thanks Quaid....

So 3 options here I guess

• Build a box
• Install fire rated speakers
• Mount on the underside of the wall

Is there a monoprice fire rated speaker? Anyone have pictures of doing the last option that I could see? Above my garage there is tounge and grove plywood that I put in to use it for storage, I can't easily build the box. Dang...I thought about speakers when laying that down but figured it would be trivial to mount in the gap between the plywood and drywall. Never thought about the code aspect.