The BEST Blu Ray player is... - Page 2

OK. So in the spirit of rationally debating the points you've raised:

1. Analog outputs may be of some value to people who want to take advantage of the advanced audio codecs but have older receivers/pre-pros that cannot accept HDMI audio. I seriously doubt there are many of those people. Folks who are interested in the cutting-edge audio codecs are exactly those who are most likely to upgrade their receivers/pre-pros to HDMI-compatible equipment. But I agree: if analog-out is something you need, then bypass the PS3.

2. Fixable by firmware upgrade. Agreed that it is not available - yet. If the virtually unlimited upgradeability of the PS3 is of little value and immediate access to MA of great value, fine. Buy an MA-enabled stand-alone (how many of those are there, again?). For the vast majority of people, the upgradeability of the PS3 is a huge advantage over the temporarily-missing codec. I feel sorry for anyone that bought a first- or even second-generation standalone BR player. But if you bought a PS3, like I did, firmware downloads have brought and will bring it to the same capabilities as generations move forward.

3. Easily fixable with a variety of IR remote add-on devices. I have one (the Nyko) that integrates perfectly with my Harmony remote. $20 and one minute of installation time. Would it be nicer to have IR as part of the box? Yes, but the absence is hardly a major hurdle. Stick the Nyko receiver into a USB port and you're ready to go on the IR front.

The PS3 is not the perfect BR device for everyone. There is no such creature yet. But given its upgradeability and flexibility it is certainly a better choice for the vast majority than anything else on the market right now.

John C.

You took my quote out of context. Please read the complete paragraph. The problem I was speaking of was not the PS3 as a quality Blu-ray player, it was the attitudes of many PS3 supporters when anyone dares question some of the attributes of the PS3. Many of us are not at a stage of life where we want to entertain the extreme responses that "fanboys" (hate using that term) spew forth constantly. Those types of responses turn people off and push some of us away from the very product they're trying to promote.

PS3 supporters may be tired of the perceived bashing that the PS3 gets, but they have no idea how it feels for those who want to understand all pluses and minuses objectively. I have never said anything specifically BAD about the PS3 as a player, but currently I do have one major concern (DTS HD-MA).

The value of analog outs are absolute on a person-by-person basis. If you need it and don't want to part with your AVR or pre-pro (especially pre-pros because there are so few that do support HDMI audio), then you need it, and it's a deal breaker. This became a non-issue for me this Christmas when I upgraded my AVR, but it can not be dismissed as a non-issue for those who do not have HDMI audio in their A/V system.


It is possibly fixable by firmware, and if it is delivered by firmware, the PS3 will go from about a 25% purchase possibility for me to about 80%. I have an A2 HD DVD player now, and I have purchased my first DTS HD-MA disc and cannot access the highest quality audio track. This is a big deal for me regardless of format. Any future HD DVD or Blu-ray player I purchase will have to support at least bitstreaming of all codecs.


This one does not bother me much personally. I have a Harmony and would even be all right with an extra remote for playing Blu-ray discs. It's just odd to me that something so simple was left out, although I have nothing against Bluetooth at all. Support for both would have been nice.


Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I seem to agree with 1 and 1/2 of them, and if the DTS HD-MA support comes through, the PS3 will clearly be the best match for my needs (as long as it's relatively quiet, but don't want to stir that discussion up here ).

...Same here, My PS3 60GB is over a year old and has played many BD movies & games (PS3, PS2, & PS1) with not a single problem or any scratches.

I have it in the vertical position for better airflow in my situation. There was talk awhile back that being vertical would scratch more. Not in my case!

A lot of people don't like the "jack of all trades master of none" approach, which is exactly what the PS3 is.

I'm pretty sure the PS3 plays current gen games, not next gen games.

As far as disc performance, reliability, speed, menu navigation, disc navigation, remote commands, it currently is the master. All these areas are considerably better than the BD30 I own and the 301 I had at one time.

You're not going to hear an argument from me. I just believe there's clearly a line, through tone and wording, between rational discussion and "piling on" that other people, not you, seem to miss. Then just as some people can't respect the PS3 as a legitimate BD player and get downright rude about it neither can some PS3 owners or fanboys be civil. The road definitely goes each way as you said.

Thanks!
I was hopeing the ''scratches discs''was not true.

Thank you.
Good to hear,now I feel more at ease.

please go to this site. it very helpful in understanding the ps3 stuff.

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html

Also, you can buy a $20 remote for PS3 that converts blue tooth to infared for universal remotes via usb on ps3

I agree completely! I have had the Samsung 1000, used the Panny BD30, and now own the Samsung BDP 1400...the PS3 bests them in every way minus the DTS-MA option. It is super fast and works with every single disc I have put in it, the stand alones can be clunky sometimes with the pop up menus & certain menu functions but the PS3 goes through them like a hot knife through butter!

I have been looking to make the jump to Blu-Ray (I was a HD-DVD fan until just recently) and I am almost sold on the PS3. I am 100% in favor of having a box that will perform multiple functions and is upgradable. (You can even easily drop a monster large HD in the PS3.) My biggest concern is the DTS HD-MA issue but I will tread water for a while to see if that will resolve itself at some point.

A PS3 with a TIVO S3 connected to a nice reciever is looking like the route I will end up going.

Assuming that the PS3 does get DTS HD-MA does an Onkyo 805 look to be sufficient to handle everything it can push out? Or is there another reciever that is known to be a better match for a PS3?

Thanks for the info all.

#3 is easily solved with the NYKO blue wave remote and USB/IR dongle for about 20 dollars, I paid 10. Then you simply learn the remote with your Harmony or whatever. But I do think the bluetooth remote idea is the stupidest move SOny made with the PS3.

Just to mix in some posts here, I had a Sammy 5K and tossed it for a PS3 and A35 combo.

Analog out and playing games were *for me* not a problem. I am going to pull the trigger on a SR805 within the month and replace my S2 Tivo for a S3.

The PS3 is by far the most future proof of any BD player out there. As long as the person looking at it can get past the fact that one of its functions is to play games.

The 805 is more than up for a PS3....

Seggers

I agree that IF you want access to the latest codecs AND if you are not willing to upgrade your AVR or pre-pro, then analog outputs are essential. All I was pointing out was that the number of people who fit in that category is likely very small in comparison to the potential overall pool of BR buyers. In fact, you are the best example: you want access to the latest and greatest, so you upgraded your AVR. Honestly, I'll bet that the number of folks who want to deal with six RCA cables from their BR player to their AVR or Pre/Pro is very small. I suspect there are a lot of folks with older AVR's or pre-pros that don't really care whether they have access to the latest audio codecs or not. For them, the toslink output of the PS3 and Dolby Digital 5.1 would be just fine. Again, not denying your point - for those that must have analog out, then the PS3 is a no-go. But I suspect that's a quite small subset of potential BR buyers.

John C.

The PS3 is a jack of all trades, master of all. It doesn't do anything poorly. It is, a full year after release, the best Blu-ray player available and it does it for $100 less retail then the 2nd best player (BD-30). It is also the best DVD upscaler we have outside of the highest end Denon's and Toshiba's XA2. It is 1080P/24hz. It does RGB Full Range and Y/Cb/Cr Super White CMYK. It is the fastest high def player there is (only one with a double speed Blu-ray drive and a 3.2Ghz processor, and it shows anytime you pop in a disc). It is the only player with persistent storage and built in wireless media center connectivity. It is gauranteed to be Profile 2.0.

Something that is the "master of none" does not win Product of Year 2007 by Home Theater Magazine.

I would add that it doesn't cook the popcorns

I don't understand the expectation that it should the best BD player. It's not born to be the one. I am getting good money worth out of it.
Regarding DTSHDMA, it still sends out the 1.5Mbps DTS core, which sounds pretty decent. It is not like you hear nothing.

The fact that it is an excellent blu-ray player AND it is a fantastic media extender (I love streaming movies/music from my laptop to my home theater) makes the PS3 one helluva machine. Once you get a decent remote (i.e. Nyko Blu-Wave --> universal remote), the PS3 does not feel like a gaming console that also plays movies and media but the very opposite.

Yes, until you buy one and see how spectacular it is in every conceivable way.

You are right -- it is a matter of perspective. People who have supported the ps3 and blu-ray over the last year will understand where I am coming from. Basically the ps3 has been blasted constantly by both the hd dvd side as well as xbox360 supporters. How does my challenge "stifle discussion"? All I'm saying is that the ps3 will likely decode dts-ma internally in the near future through a simple firmware upgrade. I didn't want the hardcore hd dvd supporters responding with "where's the link with the official announcement?" or "are you just speculating?" as they have done in the past (hence my challenge). Look, I've never really bothered posting in the hd dvd specific forums, so I don't know how bad the trolling problem is from the red perspective. But I can tell you that before the AVS crackdown, it was terrible in the bd forums (especially after the paramount defection). In fact many long time bd supporters stopped posting out of frustration. If I posted the same negative talking points about the A2 in the hd dvd player forum over and over again, would I be greeted with a friendly welcome? I have looked at your posting history and you do seem like a rational person who is genuine about giving bd a chance -- so just ignore my challenge, it isn't meant for you.

Why, b/c it's a game console?

I find the only people who discount the PS3 as a legitimate Blu-ray player are the ones who can't get past the fact that it was designed and marketed for video games.

Would these same naysayers cringe at the thought of hooking up a laptop/PC to their HT system?

I like versatility. I like the fact that I have a piece of HT hardware that can multi-task. While it may be a jack of all trades and purported master of none, it sure fits the bill for me.

I didn't buy my first PS3 for it's Blu-ray capability, but it fills that role. I did buy my second PS3 for it's Blu-ray capability and I might even play games on it from time to time. While I'm at it, I might watch my old DVD's, stream video/music/photos and surf the internet on either one of them if I so choose.

But, don't let any of this be considered beneath you...to each his own !

Thanks for following up. From what I gather, the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player available with the few caveats discussed here. I do want DTS advanced codec support to come through on it. Since I've seen conflicting messages about its possibilities, with some saying a software solution will work and others saying the hardware can't do it, I just wait objectively.

If they get it working, it would be the best player for me because I do want 2.0, which Sony said will come. Analog audio outs don't matter to me and I can live with a USB IR remote adapter. The fact that it plays games is not a problem. Although I wouldn't plan on using it for games, why limit your possibilities?

Better gaming consoles out there ( X360 ), better media hubs ( HTPC ), better BD players where it counts, AQ/PQ. Jack of all, master of none.

Really depends on the model.....20gb,40gb,60gb or 80gb.

Still can't get the audio to equal that of my XA2 though. PQ is great, audio is subpar. I'll maintain that until someone can shed some "detailed" light on that, not just "you're doing something worng" or "It's all in your head dude!"

How are you hooked up? HDMI? I have both the PS3 and XA2 as well hooked up HDMI to my Onkyo 885 and they are equal in sound quality to my ears. I also have a BD30 and I would put all 3 of these machines on par with eachother in SQ (except PCM out of the BD30 because of the known LFE issue). PCM and TrueHD>PCM out of the PS3 should have just as much impact, detail, etc...as anything bitstreamed out of your XA2. One thing I found is that when the PS3 is in default volume setting (in the triangle menu) that any PCM coming out of HDMI will have an overall lower volume than anything you would bitstream which may be why you think the PS3 does not sound as good. All you have to do is turn up PCM sources out of the PS3 a bit louder than anything bitstreamed out of your XA2, or go into the triangle menu and bump up the PS3 volume control one notch from the default setting (this brought PCM to the same "0" reference level as bitstreamed codecs from the XA2). Once you compensate for the volume dif the PS3 should be on par with your XA2 in SQ. This is all assuming you are using HDMI for both the XA2 and PS3 and bitstreaming out of your XA2.

You don't know what you are talking about, the Panasonic BD30 supports DTSHDMA, as does the Samsung1400(with a firmware update) and do a couple of others. I think what you meant to say was that Sony doesn't have any support for it, not the blurayplayer market as a whole.

He is talking about inplayer DTS-MA decoding which no player supports right now.

Thanks for the tips Toe. I already did the +1 volume trick. I know all about the "louder sounds better effect".

Still can't get to the bottom of it unless it boild down to something the 805 is doing. The PS3 just always sounds compressed or distorted. I suppose it could be all down to content, since I don't have identical discs to compare, but I assumed Pearl Harbor and BHD would be showcase audio titles (were on SD-DVD for me) and they just don't have the same impact as say Superman Returns in True HD (which is mind blowing).

I find myself wanting to turn the volume up, but when I do it's just too loud and unfocused. I have reset my 805 too, and still can't figure this out. I wish I had an S1 or something to compare another BD player's MPCM out to the PS3.