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The Dave's Quad 18" Fi IB Build Thread - Page 5

post #121 of 178
Ah,I had a feeling the grand dip could be taken care of.

Good to see the results.
post #122 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

Almost 120 db at 5 hz. Cool.

The amp still had lots of gain left . Also, I forgot but the receiver had the sub at -5db for when I level matched them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

Aww, come on, whats happening at 3Hz? 1Hz? DC?

I love the high level sweeps

You want me to run a sweep from 1hz up?? Umm..that is kind of sketchy considering I think I could bottom these pretty good with the power I am running at those freqs. I could do some lower level sweeps just to see what the graph looks like. 1hz - 80hz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

looks like your mains and your sub are having a bit of cancellation at the lower teens. I would leave it as Mains (Large) and SUbs Plus, as this is giving you the most natural FR. Use the DEQ to bring down the hump in the mid bass 20-50hz, and you outta be in good shape.

looking good.

I need to pick up a DEQ first . I agree on that seeming the most natural I just have to experiment while watching certain scenes to make sure the mains are good to go and the sound is blended.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

Ah,I had a feeling the grand dip could be taken care of.

Good to see the results.

Thanks! Just trying to make the natural response as best as I can before I start playing with an EQ. A little more work but less crap in the chain the better.

I will move the mic later tonight just to see what that looks like. Thomas W has also requested some nearfield plots so I will provide those as well.
post #123 of 178
Thread Starter 
I forgot to mention...besides playing around with the settings and running sweeps I have done more actual listening test!

I watched Disturbia on blu ray last night. While the movie isn't bass heavy it was how well everything blended that blew me away. Everything from simple car doors, house doors, knuckle raps on the wall, the breaking of boards, the best friend getting hit by a bat in the face, etc. was effortless and "just there"! It really sounds very realistic!!!

Also, it was more about the fact that I didn't ever think about the sub while watching the movie. It was very subtle in how transparently it blends.

Now for those wanting the big doses served up, I turned up the gain (I have my mains down and subs down a good amount to match 75db) and put some music on.
Let's just say the house was rockin pretty damn good!!! Actually, I was a little scared things in the China cabinet on the other side of the house were going to fall. Then, I would be in some deep doo doo. Anyways, my wife came home later and when she walked in, she gave me the stink eye (jokingly). Why do I feel like Dennis the Menace??

The more I listen to this setup and tweak the settings the more I am falling in love with it!!

The best way I can describe the sub to someone would be to call it a "20 lb feather". It can be very light and articulate...even delicate while providing amazing detail, then, you turn around and get smashed in the face with its authoritative weight!!
post #124 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

I forgot to mention...besides playing around with the settings and running sweeps I have done more actual listening test!

I watched Disturbia on blu ray last night. While the movie isn't bass heavy it was how well everything blended that blew me away. Everything from simple car doors, house doors, knuckle raps on the wall, the breaking of boards, the best friend getting hit by a bat in the face, etc. was effortless and "just there"! It really sounds very realistic!!!

Also, it was more about the fact that I didn't ever think about the sub while watching the movie. It was very subtle in how transparently it blends.

Now for those wanting the big doses served up, I turned up the gain (I have my mains down and subs down a good amount to match 75db) and put some music on.
Let's just say the house was rockin pretty damn good!!! Actually, I was a little scared things in the China cabinet on the other side of the house were going to fall. Then, I would be in some deep doo doo. Anyways, my wife came home later and when she walked in, she gave me the stink eye (jokingly). Why do I feel like Dennis the Menace??

The more I listen to this setup and tweak the settings the more I am falling in love with it!!

The best way I can describe the sub to someone would be to call it a "20 lb feather". It can be very light and articulate...even delicate while providing amazing detail, then, you turn around and get smashed in the face with its authoritative weight!!

All great to hear man and were my thoughts exactly! I figured you'd love these woofers. Congrats, now get back to the movie watching/music jam sessions!
post #125 of 178
Thread Starter 
I watched the Live Free Or Die Hard bluray last night. All I can say is OOOOOOMMMMMFFFFFGGGGG!!!!!!

Let me reiterate........HOLY FREAKING CRAP!!!!!!!!!!

Audible orgasms all around!!! That soundtrack is NUTS!!! From the very beginning of the movie it was great. The scene with the terrorist shooting up the apartment was awesome. Every time he fired I could feel the rounds pulsate through my chest!! The whole movie blew me away. Hell, the scene at the end with the F-35 was too much for words here. First the F -35 flew by....very nice. Then, he started shooting at the semi and took out the freeway. As I watched the freeway collapse down it felt like my ceiling wanted to do the same thing!!! That is a GREAT scene.

Brings a tear to my eye thinking about it. I am sorry, I just can't say enough about them!

Every movie night I have had so far has been completely amazing. The subs just make you feel so immersed in the movie. It's great to see my wife and roommate who don't really care about audio or the project get so deep into the movie watching experience now. Only one problem: Going to the theater is going to be pretty tame in comparison. Eh...screw the movie theaters! I have a great display, killer audio, and the comforts of home! That's why we do this right - that and a slight chemical imbalance!

This sub does sound like a different beast from when I first fired it up. It sounds MUCH better. I think I am getting everything set in pretty good. My wife finished the braiding last night and I will run the wires most likely tomorrow. Also, since tomorrow is my "Saturday" I will run the near field measurements and post those.

For the price of the subs, the amp, and the wood I would put this setup up against ANYTHING doubling or tripling the cost easily. I have heard some high end subs (local high end stores) and nothing compares so far in my experience. This has really opened my eyes.

Thanks for all the knowledge of everyone here and those that helped along the way. This sub is everything I could have hoped for. Also, thanks to Scott at FI for making subs like these available to people that don't have loads of cash. Especially thanks to Thomas W for starting the "Cult of the IB". The descriptions really sold me on the project and made me sell my RL's to pursue this route.

If you have ever thought about going IB "JUST DO IT"!! It will not fail to impress!!
post #126 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

This sub does sound like a different beast from when I first fired it up. It sounds MUCH better.

What all changed since the first time you fired it up? Was there any key thing or breakthrough/discovery you made?

In any case, I'm glad to hear the "beast" has awakened and let out a might roar! I'll have to pick up that movie on Blu-Ray and try it out in my HT soon. And you're absolutely right about going out to the movies being a downgraded experience... at least in the audio department.

Bradley
post #127 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btp View Post

What all changed since the first time you fired it up? Was there any key thing or breakthrough/discovery you made?

In any case, I'm glad to hear the "beast" has awakened and let out a might roar! I'll have to pick up that movie on Blu-Ray and try it out in my HT soon. And you're absolutely right about going out to the movies being a downgraded experience... at least in the audio department.

Bradley

If you have not seen it rent/buY it right away!!! Load up the DTS track and be prepared for an audio assault!!!!!

As for my setup, just tweaking with the settings such as distance, gain at both the amp and receiver, positioning the mains, trying to secure the beast of a manifold down, running sweeps, etc usuall methodologies .
post #128 of 178
Congrats! Now rent the War of the Worlds and watch chapter 5, 6 and 12.
Also download DTS Demo #6 version 2. I added a menu to this demo disc. It's easier now to navigate. I really love "Flight of the Phoenix" because I can really feel air flowing thru me(even if the sub is sitting on a concrete slab). That is how wicked it is! I also love "The Haunting in DTS". Love "Minority Report". The shotgun's LFE was an enveloping LFE. If you want your eyes to blur, then play the fight at Jurassic Park included on this same disc. Honestly, most of the scenes on DEMO DISC #6 is awesome!

Anyways, just grab it and let us know.

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN!!!
post #129 of 178
The subs loosen up a good bit with some time, I had to re-adjust my SMS1 after a while to remain flat (when I want it flat). Avus I'm right on the same page, you don't want to go to the movies after having exprienced something with the authority of four 18" 30mm xmax woofers and 2400-2500watts!!! That and if you've got a nice display and it sounds like you do it just is no reason to go!!!
post #130 of 178
And yes, Die Hard 4's LFE content is simply nuts, it was the third movie I watched on these beasts and I was scared multiple times for the house!
post #131 of 178
Hey, good stuff. I just watched Mr McLain the other night myself...

Just for the record, does ANYBODY here use "small" speaker setting? I found even the tamest bookshelves that go down to ~70-80 sound best on "large" (I wish they used real figures here, like "Full" and "120 cut" or something, wtf is small or large??)

Another thing that pisses me off personally is how my AVR has settings for 40, 60, 80 and up (LFE) while my 'ideal' is ~70-75 with the speakers I'm using now. Would it have killed them to do smaller steps down low instead of more larger steps that go up to 180 or something silly?
post #132 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexE View Post

Hey, good stuff. I just watched Mr McLain the other night myself...

Just for the record, does ANYBODY here use "small" speaker setting? I found even the tamest bookshelves that go down to ~70-80 sound best on "large" (I wish they used real figures here, like "Full" and "120 cut" or something, wtf is small or large??)

Another thing that pisses me off personally is how my AVR has settings for 40, 60, 80 and up (LFE) while my 'ideal' is ~70-75 with the speakers I'm using now. Would it have killed them to do smaller steps down low instead of more larger steps that go up to 180 or something silly?

I use the small setting on my mains even though they are capable of below 80hz performance with good authority (Def Tech BP20s). Just like the idea of the reciever power going toward the 80hz and up area with all the power I have in the 80 and below range! That and I don't have a problem with any matching in the crossover range running like this!
post #133 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

I use the small setting on my mains even though they are capable of below 80hz performance with good authority (Def Tech BP20s).

Same here, only I have BP30s. Plus the 80 Hz crossover isn't a brick wall, so some frequencies below the crossover point certainly do make it to the front mains and center. I remember one time pull the grille off the center channel when I had War of the Worlds on and that thing was going NUTS. Had to double check my speaker and crossover settings just to be sure!
post #134 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Congrats! Now rent the War of the Worlds and watch chapter 5, 6 and 12.
Also download DTS Demo #6 version 2. I added a menu to this demo disc. It's easier now to navigate. Honestly, most of the scenes on DEMO DISC #6 is awesome!

Anyways, just grab it and let us know.

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN!!!

I am trying to get it right now. I will PM you in a bit. Thanks BTW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

The subs loosen up a good bit with some time, I had to re-adjust my SMS1 after a while to remain flat (when I want it flat). Avus I'm right on the same page, you don't want to go to the movies after having exprienced something with the authority of four 18" 30mm xmax woofers and 2400-2500watts!!! That and if you've got a nice display and it sounds like you do it just is no reason to go!!!

I think they loosened up quite a bit. They were pretty rigid at first. As for the display it's a Pio 6010 so it gets the job done . The subs do really take it to a whole new level!!! I am excited to have a movie night at my house and want to invite some people over. I want to share this euphoria!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexE View Post

Hey, good stuff. I just watched Mr McLain the other night myself...

Just for the record, does ANYBODY here use "small" speaker setting? I found even the tamest bookshelves that go down to ~70-80 sound best on "large" (I wish they used real figures here, like "Full" and "120 cut" or something, wtf is small or large??)

Another thing that pisses me off personally is how my AVR has settings for 40, 60, 80 and up (LFE) while my 'ideal' is ~70-75 with the speakers I'm using now. Would it have killed them to do smaller steps down low instead of more larger steps that go up to 180 or something silly?

Sounds like you need a receiver with individual x-overs. Be happy though...my receiver only offers 80, 100, and 150hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by btp View Post

Same here, only I have BP30s. Plus the 80 Hz crossover isn't a brick wall, so some frequencies below the crossover point certainly do make it to the front mains and center. I remember one time pull the grille off the center channel when I had War of the Worlds on and that thing was going NUTS. Had to double check my speaker and crossover settings just to be sure!

Something tells me that you watch movies LOUD Bradley .
post #135 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

I am trying to get it right now. I will PM you in a bit. Thanks BTW.



I think they loosened up quite a bit. They were pretty rigid at first. As for the display it's a Pio 6010 so it gets the job done . The subs do really take it to a whole new level!!! I am excited to have a movie night at my house and want to invite some people over. I want to share this euphoria!!



Sounds like you need a receiver with individual x-overs. Be happy though...my receiver only offers 80, 100, and 150hz.



Something tells me that you watch movies LOUD Bradley .

That's great Avus! I have a 106" projection setup (all though i'm a disgruntled AX200U Panny owner most my friends can't see the constant flickering) and love some movie nights. I don't go to the movies at all and tell my friends to hold off on movies all the time! It usually doesn't take much convincing ha!
post #136 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

That's great Avus! I have a 106" projection setup (all though i'm a disgruntled AX200U Panny owner most my friends can't see the constant flickering) and love some movie nights. I don't go to the movies at all and tell my friends to hold off on movies all the time! It usually doesn't take much convincing ha!

I wanted to go smaller (ie much cheaper) with the display so I can run FP but it's not in the works right now. So, I went all out...for my budget anyways. This setup with a FP would truly be "in the movies" kind of feeling.
post #137 of 178
Thread Starter 
Well, I got the ladder out and ran some near field measurements as promised. I held the mic in the manifold. I tried not to have my body be in front of the manifold as much as possible. I ran 4 sweeps with the mic in between the top 2 subs, 4 in between the bottom 2, and 4 with the mic about 4" in front of the manifold
centered for the most part.

Top measurement





Bottom measurement





Front measurement





Averaged measurement

post #138 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by btp View Post

Same here, only I have BP30s. Plus the 80 Hz crossover isn't a brick wall, so some frequencies below the crossover point certainly do make it to the front mains and center. I remember one time pull the grille off the center channel when I had War of the Worlds on and that thing was going NUTS. Had to double check my speaker and crossover settings just to be sure!

Yeah on second thought nothing wrong with setting it to small if you can cross it where you like, instead of matching up your speaker roll off and your sub manually. This also sucks when using cheaper speakers with a jaggy FR down low.

The definitives are nice, I've never heard yours but my buddy has the single-mid version (bp10?) but same speaker otherwise IIRC, mid+tweet front and rear and plate amps, sock that goes over it... They sell these things at Best Buy now. I was surprised, they don't look like very much but image well and are very clear in sound. Yours have the 8" bi-amped woofers as well or do they have 10s in the bigger version?
post #139 of 178
Apologies to Dave for going off-topic, but the BP30 uses a pair of 6" mid-bass drivers on each face, front and back (four total). It replaced the BP20 in the same way the BP10B replaced the original BP10, the most obvious change being a switch to aluminum dome tweeters. The BP30 was the flagship of Def Tech's passive bipolar line. It's a shame they dropped it in favor of the towers with the built in powered subs. I love mine. One of the best HT/audio purchases I ever made. And I also have a pair of BP10Bs in the rear for surround.

Dave... yes, I do like to watch my movies LOUD. At least loud enough to feel it.
post #140 of 178
Quote:


They sell these things at Best Buy now.

Only at Magnolia though, correct?
post #141 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Only at Magnolia though, correct?

Right, more specifically "Magnolia" locations. If you've got one nearby chances are you are in a higher income neighborhood. Besides the definitives I think they have some low end ML electrostats too.

I had a friend ask me to help him out with an all new music/HT arrangement, ie electronics, mains, sub and BlueRay. The catch was that he insisted everything be bought locally. After a bit of looking around in my area I couldn't find much better than our Magnolia BB. We haven't gone yet, but he says sky is the limit. Shame he doesn't want to deal with the internet.
post #142 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by btp View Post

Apologies to Dave for going off-topic....Dave... yes, I do like to watch my movies LOUD. At least loud enough to feel it.

Hey, no problems here . I just updated my PS3 (DTS-HD MA)...now I need a movie to test it!
post #143 of 178
Thread Starter 
I heard some feedback from some (Thomas W) that the low end rise seems pretty weird and it's a measurement artifact. Well, I ran a loop back test WITH the mic cal loaded and all looks good to me?




What do you guys think?
post #144 of 178
How much does the new system shake your house? Do you get a bunch of rattles throughout the house? My friend plans on using 8-16 of the fi's and he has been following your thread to see the results.

Thanks,

Robert
post #145 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

How much does the new system shake your house? Do you get a bunch of rattles throughout the house? My friend plans on using 8-16 of the fi's and he has been following your thread to see the results.

Thanks,

Robert

Yes, you do get a bunch of rattles throughout the house but honestly I don't think it's because of this alignment, but more so just because of 29L of displacement! Well the above would atleast hold true in a manifold alignment!

8-16 of the 18" IB woofers? Best advice to your friend is go ahead and soundproof the entire listening room as much as his time and budget will allow!!!
post #146 of 178
Yeah, Nick and I have the same IB system except mine is a line array. The house will shake a loud and low frequence. I think its just the fact that my house does have a resonance freq. (not sure what it is). Im sure the rear waves in my attic cause my whole HVAC system to vibrate at a certain frequence. I would have to go around everywhere and put 3" or more duct liner around everything that rattles

This is only at the loudest, lowest levels though. Listening levels, its just incredible without extra rattles.


8-16 of the 18" IB woofers

I just dont see a reason for that excessiveness 16??? Diminished returns theory here applies and I would think he will never hear even 50% of the true potential of that doesnt.

Of course TheEar will post disagreeing with that
post #147 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

How much does the new system shake your house? Do you get a bunch of rattles throughout the house? My friend plans on using 8-16 of the fi's and he has been following your thread to see the results.

Thanks,

Robert

8 - 16 of these would be INSANE!!

To be completely honest with everyone I talked with Scott about buying 6 initially. Now, I am very happy with 4 and have a ton more out of them compared to the listening levels I am at but headroom is always very nice. Plus, I would be the first with 6 of em! That and 43.5L just seems so damn hot!

I think 8 would be absolutely perfect for a real large open room. I feel 16 would just be throwing money down the drain. What size is the listening area and I take it it's a dedicated room with treatments?

As far as the rattles go, well mine sit in a separate attic space above the garage. I honestly haven't noticed rattles around the house (although I haven't checked too much). My wife did report when she was in the bedroom on the opposite side of the house (I was listening at a pretty good level) she heard some shaking of the bathroom cabinets. I think that is just from displacement as Nick said though .
post #148 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

Congrats! Now rent the War of the Worlds and watch chapter 5, 6 and 12.
Also download DTS Demo #6 version 2. I added a menu to this demo disc. It's easier now to navigate. I really love "Flight of the Phoenix" because I can really feel air flowing thru me(even if the sub is sitting on a concrete slab). That is how wicked it is! I also love "The Haunting in DTS". Love "Minority Report". The shotgun's LFE was an enveloping LFE. If you want your eyes to blur, then play the fight at Jurassic Park included on this same disc. Honestly, most of the scenes on DEMO DISC #6 is awesome!

Anyways, just grab it and let us know.

CONGRATULATIONS AGAIN!!!

I tried getting the demo disc twice but it won't go past 58%??
post #149 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

I tried getting the demo disc twice but it won't go past 58%??

Btw, about your PM, you mentioned DTS sampler disc. The one I was referring to on my post is not the DTS sampler disc. The DTS sampler disc is the one available on Torrent. That took me 30 days to complete that 6.5gig file.

However, the one I was referring to, DTS Demo Disc #6 version 2, is on bpratt's or squidboy's ftp site. That should only take you like 7 to 10 hours download.

That means, there are 2 different disc. I really like DTS Demo Disc #6. I only like the first trailer on the DTS Sampler disc and that is HERO.
post #150 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

8 - 16 of these would be INSANE!!

As far as the rattles go, well mine sit in a separate attic space above the garage. I honestly haven't noticed rattles around the house (although I haven't checked too much). My wife did report when she was in the bedroom on the opposite side of the house (I was listening at a pretty good level) she heard some shaking of the bathroom cabinets. I think that is just from displacement as Nick said though .

I quite agree. Similar with wife's angry experience. And I only have 2 Fi drivers that are sitting on my basement concrete slab. It's not attached to the walls or any. But still shakes some parts of the 2nd floor.

I guess, the reason one would want more drivers is to lessen the burden on the amp but adding more SPL. That's just my guess. But 16 drivers, I would spend money instead on the room treatments and movies.

I'm very happy with my 2Fi's.
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