or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Is it in Microsoft's best interest to release a Blu-ray add-on?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is it in Microsoft's best interest to release a Blu-ray add-on? - Page 3

post #61 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

FYI, there are 360 games that require a HDD but I don't think Lost Planet on the 360 is one of them (granted you still need something to save games).

FYI, the 360 version of Lost Planet came out a long time ago (it was originally announced as an exclusive to the 360). I believe you are probably thinking of the PS3 version that hasn't been released yet.


Yep, momentary brain fad, was trying to think up the name of the game that require a HD install in order to have multi-player on the 360. Still could not remember though.
post #62 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by JE3146 View Post

I never like to do this, but do you have a source for that 6+ billion $ claim?

Because that just seems a bit too absurd. If it's true, then I apologize, but I'd still like to see where you got that number.


It's been listed on many gaming sites and forums with actual copies of the MS financial statements.Y ou'll have to go look up some of the earning report or do a search. They were over 4 billion in the red on the original Xbox. Add to that the early lost on the 360 and the 1.6 billion that they charge for the RROD problem put them over 6 Billion.
post #63 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by SonicAgamemnon View Post

Adding a Blu-Ray drive to a SuxBox 360 will surely result in another 30% jump in the heat-failure rate. The return drop-ship department is already flooded with melted junk...

Ahh, love these people. "SuxBox" and from another post "MicroSux". Yeeeaah, you certainly don't have any agendas...
post #64 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiz33 View Post

Yep, momentary brain fad, was trying to think up the name of the game that require a HD install in order to have multi-player on the 360. Still could not remember though.

Burnout Paradise
post #65 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey View Post

Burnout Paradise


Ah, thanks.
post #66 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mullis View Post

As for an add-on, I don't see it. I don't think Microsoft cares enough, and it's not going to be used for games so it doesn't benefit the 360 on it's primary use...

I don't see why they would put too much effort into a Blu-ray add-on. They aren't marketing the 360 as a movie player, so there is really no reason IMO.

I agree. I think MS created the HD DVD add-on to help the fight against Sony and the Playstation 3 indirectly, the same way that MS announced "support" for HD DVD in Windows. MS also supported HD DVD because it uses HDi, a Microsoft-led technology. Now that none of these moves were successful, Microsoft will probably just concentrate on HD downloads and soon act as if HD discs just do not exist, at least until some time in the future when Blu-ray becomes a widely-adopted format, if it eventually does.
post #67 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demise View Post

You're assuming the next generation xbox will come with an optical drive. I'm not entirely sure that will be the case. Optical is nearing the end of its lifespan, imho.

I do think Microsoft is up to something right now. My guess is we'll hear something at GDC, maybe a new SKU.

I hate all of these posts these days claiming that download content will replace all. Download movies suck. It is ok for some but a total crap solution for everyone.

Problems:

Not everyone has a broadband connection.

Not everyone wants to wait 1 hour to DL a movie. With a disk, just pick it off the shelf and play it. If you are too lazy to order a disk online or go to the store that is pathetic.

You can only own a few movies (storage space) and they are locked to one hardware unit. (what happens if that unit needs to be replaced, or you want to watch that movie in a different place?)

The quality sucks. Excessive compression for Dl time ruins PQ, AQ.

You can't have a collection of alot of movies. Storage space is limited. If you just buy disks, you can have as many as you want.

Transportation of DRM loaded DL movies between players not possible. DL a movie via XBL, how can you take it to a friends house (or another player in your house) and watch it on his PS3, BD player, even their 360? Yeah YOU CANT! Way too restrictive. Garbage

Download movies suck. It will never be as good as owning it on a physical media.

DL content is the studios dream. You never own the movie and have to go to them everytime you want to see it on a different platform. This is the Trojan horse they have always dreamed of convincing the public that is a good thing. Remember Circuit city's Divix format that sold cheap but required you to phone home every time you wanted to watch the movie? A failure. That was the first attempt, now the next attempt is Downloaded content. I don't buy it.
post #68 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlsmith View Post

I also predict that Nintendo will have a Blu-ray drive in the Wii. They have said that they would come out with a model that supports DVD, but I think they will look at the hidef situation and decide that it must be Blu-ray.

I doubt that. The Wii is not even a high def system. The best it does is 480P. The Wii is a last gen system with a gimmicky control scheme. It lacks the power to decode HDM.
post #69 of 215
Would it be possible to have 3 drives in a 360?

2 add-on drives (the HD DVD add-on and a blu-ray add-on) and the original DVD-rom?

All at the same time with a 1/3 tray icon in the xbox media menu.
post #70 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tes7769 View Post

There also would have to be a decent profit potential in it for MS and i somehow doubt MS would pay to license the tech from Sony.

In short.We'll likely see a 360 add-on BluRay drive when pig's fly.

Licencing competitors products is done all of the time so that is no reason.

I mean Sony makes alot of laptops and desktop PCs. Who do you think they pay to get copies of *Microsoft Windows* pre-installed in those PCs? Hmmm?

I think they MUST release a BD add-on for the 360 if they want to compete. Otherwise they are just telling everyone that wants a next get game system that can play movies to buy a PS3 instead.

I wouldn't be suprised to see a version of the 360 with a built-in BD drive now. They didn't make a 360 with a built-in HDM drive before as they didn't know which format would win. They didn't want to be stuck with a loser. If they included a HD DVD drive in the 360 and it lost, no one would buy the 360 as it would be dragged down by having a drive with a "dead format" in it. Now that the winner is clear, there is no risk.
post #71 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC19 View Post

Remember Circuit city's Divix format that sold cheap but required you to phone home every time you wanted to watch the movie?

It didn't phone home every time you played the disc; it only phoned home to exchange billing data and the like. You could get away with leaving your player disconnected for weeks at a time.
post #72 of 215
I think Bill Gates will just push digital content. Blu-Ray will take at least another three years to make any headway, and by then I see people downloading media straight to their consoles and other hardware. Don't forget that Mr. Gates is serious about this stuff, and when he means business, he means business.
post #73 of 215
A new add-on drive probably won't happen. It's an awkward solution to begin with, and only made sense because standalone players were priced well out of the marketplace. Add-on drives were a temporary solution, and MS would have eventually dropped it anyway, even if Toshiba hadn't taken a serious downturn.

The add-on drives filled a role that, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist anymore (and that's regardless of format choice). The time has come and gone for those types of solutions.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Blu-ray drive integrated into the high-end 360 models, though. What's missing from the 'Elite' and even the 'Premium' Xboxen is the value-proposition set by the PS3. For $400, the consumer now expects to get a high-def drive available to them (along with wifi, HDD, etc). Future revisions the 360 hardware are going to have to address that in order to remain competitive with the PS3.

Well, the 'Elite' model at the very least. I don't know how they can continue selling a "top-of-the-line" console that's just so deficient in features.
post #74 of 215
Meanwhile the Wii outsells everyone with only a dvd drive. It could probably outsell MS or Sony if it used cartridges, had mono audio and no drive at all.
post #75 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper View Post

I think Bill Gates will just push digital content. Blu-Ray will take at least another three years to make any headway, and by then I see people downloading media straight to their consoles and other hardware. Don't forget that Mr. Gates is serious about this stuff, and when he means business, he means business.

Riiiight.... Mr. "No one needs more than 640k or RAM" Gates? He isn't even CEO of MS anymore. Look, I have an MS operating system on every computer I've owned since I was running SGI workstations, but the reality is that downloads at the HD level are not going to take off quickly, and furthermore many of the ISPs have vested intersts in not letting it happen.
post #76 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tes7769 View Post

The chances of MS coming out with a BlueRay drive for the 360 isn't a very strong likelihood.Right now, most people that own 360's that want HiDef movies/tv dload it from the XBL Video Store which actually sells more HD content that iTunes.The 360 is also a NextGen Video game console first and foremost. With those facts, there isn't likely to be a call or a want from the installed 360/XBL user base for an add-on BR player.There also would have to be a decent profit potential in it for MS and i somehow doubt MS would pay to license the tech from Sony.

In short.We'll likely see a 360 add-on BluRay drive when pig's fly.

MS' "next" console is likely to use a DD/solid state memory/large HD combo.They've already said they've been at work on the 360's successor since early last year and that it was unlikely to use an optical drive.

If you guys honestly believe this, you are crazy. This is business and in business, there are many strategic partnerships so this would be no different. MS has said all along on many occasions that they have been working with the BD group since day one. MS knew like the rest of us that HD-DVD may not win and gave the consumer a choice. A BD add-on for the 360 will hit by this summer, easily.
post #77 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottscay View Post

Riiiight.... Mr. "No one needs more than 640k or RAM" Gates? He isn't even CEO of MS anymore. Look, I have an MS operating system on every computer I've owned since I was running SGI workstations, but the reality is that downloads at the HD level are not going to take off quickly, and furthermore many of the ISPs have vested intersts in not letting it happen.

Wake up man. Seriously, wake up. Just like the naysayers who said Netflix will never deliver over the wire. It's coming and soon.
post #78 of 215
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC19 View Post

Licencing competitors products is done all of the time so that is no reason.

I mean Sony makes alot of laptops and desktop PCs. Who do you think they pay to get copies of *Microsoft Windows* pre-installed in those PCs? Hmmm?

I think they MUST release a BD add-on for the 360 if they want to compete. Otherwise they are just telling everyone that wants a next get game system that can play movies to buy a PS3 instead.

I wouldn't be suprised to see a version of the 360 with a built-in BD drive now. They didn't make a 360 with a built-in HDM drive before as they didn't know which format would win. They didn't want to be stuck with a loser. If they included a HD DVD drive in the 360 and it lost, no one would buy the 360 as it would be dragged down by having a drive with a "dead format" in it. Now that the winner is clear, there is no risk.

Considering that MS never built a model with a built in HD-DVD drive, Id say a built in bluray drive is VERY unlikely methinks.
post #79 of 215
YES! MS to should absolutely issue a Blu-ray add on.

Why?

Because right now (and even more so in the future) more and more consumers will be purchasing PS3 consoles strictly for their Blu-ray abilities. Many would have actually preferred an Xbox 360.

MS needs to prevent the PS3 from gaining popularity based strictly on the fact is plays Blu-ray movies and it's cheaper than any of the comparable stand alone players.

I hope they release a Blu-ray add-on next week and keep the PS3 in last place.
post #80 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC19 View Post

I think they MUST release a BD add-on for the 360 if they want to compete. Otherwise they are just telling everyone that wants a next get game system that can play movies to buy a PS3 instead.

The thing is, Microsoft has never marketed the Xbox 360 that way. And as I mentioned before as a gripe on Microsoft, they never marketed the HD DVD add-on the way they could have.

The Xbox 360 is not a next gen game console that plays movies unless youo buy the add-on accessory. It never has been, never will be. And that is the way Microsoft wants it to be. They want to fight Sony on the game front. They've always wanted to beat Sony on that front.


Quote:


I wouldn't be suprised to see a version of the 360 with a built-in BD drive now. They didn't make a 360 with a built-in HDM drive before as they didn't know which format would win. They didn't want to be stuck with a loser. If they included a HD DVD drive in the 360 and it lost, no one would buy the 360 as it would be dragged down by having a drive with a "dead format" in it. Now that the winner is clear, there is no risk.

That is not true as they could simply have turned around and used the HD DVD drive for storage, much like if Blu-ray lost the PS3 wasn't going to stop using a BD drive. Not having a built in HDM drive was for other reasons, and had nothing to do with the format war.

And keep in mind in 2005 before the console launched, the DVD forum and BDA were still negotiating on a standard format. So there really wasnt even a format war back then.

Microsoft's main reasoning was cost.
post #81 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottscay View Post

Riiiight.... Mr. "No one needs more than 640k or RAM" Gates? He isn't even CEO of MS anymore. Look, I have an MS operating system on every computer I've owned since I was running SGI workstations, but the reality is that downloads at the HD level are not going to take off quickly, and furthermore many of the ISPs have vested intersts in not letting it happen.

id say hd downloads are taking off already on the 360... to an extent.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=14180
this article is very old but shows the 360 download service could be doing far better than anybody thinks. these figures are a few months after lionsgate cam to xbox live and in the first few months they had 150,000 downloads of their 15 movies. And thats a smaller studio.

disney, paramount, wb all should do numbers that greatly exceed lionsgate. these figures are only going to increase now that apple is in the game as well as having alot more 360's out there.
post #82 of 215
A BD addon would be smart for giving 360 owners that might want to buy HDM an option besides buying a PS3. That's an option that could bite in other ways since once loyal 360 fans own a PS3 they then also split their game buying dollars between both machines.

Also can't undersestimate console brand loyalty factor. 360 owners just lost a marketing bullet point in addition to a real feature difference. For some the bullet point hurts more than any real feature difference. Fact is with a PS3 I can play all the cool new HDM movies that come out, with a 360 I cannot. That hurts perception and gives media coverage points to PS3 as well.

The flipside though is development of a BD software player is an expense and judging by the size and scope of the hd dvd player project not a trivial task. Is it worth the effort in their view?

MS may decide they are better off cutting their losses on HDM and focus on driving the cost and price point of the 360 down to reflect it's diminished value relative to PS3 for HDM but emphasize a better value for gaming purposes ala the Nintendo Wii approach.
post #83 of 215
I'm with MS doing it for perception sakes. Right now x360 being associated with hd-dvd can't be a positive thing.

There seems to be class action lawsuits for anything these days and wouldn't surprise me MS gets dragged in too.
post #84 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainjy View Post

If you guys honestly believe this, you are crazy. This is business and in business, there are many strategic partnerships so this would be no different. MS has said all along on many occasions that they have been working with the BD group since day one. MS knew like the rest of us that HD-DVD may not win and gave the consumer a choice. A BD add-on for the 360 will hit by this summer, easily.

+1
They need to save face, they need to compete with the PS3, and they need new customers and therefore, as MS has been hinting all along, they will do a BD add-on later this year.
post #85 of 215
Microsoft should focus on gameplay and bow out of HDM.
post #86 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by captainjy View Post

Wake up man. Seriously, wake up. Just like the naysayers who said Netflix will never deliver over the wire. It's coming and soon.

I never said Netflix wouldn't deliver over the wire, and furthermore it isn't "coming", it's here. I download Simpson's episodes and The Daily Show onto my iPod all the time. What is NOT coming soon is HD movies downloaded over the internet regularly. Sure, it will happen, but mark my words HD movie downloads will not take 15% of the rental market in the next 5-7 years, meanwhile BD will grow to 30-50% of rentals in the same time frame.

This isn't just about technological possibility, it's about the fact that a huge number of people who get broadband get it from companies like Warner that ALSO want to sell you PPV movies over their cable system, and don't want to see the optical disk market dry up so fast. Those people control the pipelines, and there isn't dickall that MS can do about it.

So wake up, it isn't just some linear movement of technological progression, there are several interweaving financial and political factors involved, and they do not support HD downloads gain mass market penetration in the next decade.
post #87 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by jagouar View Post

id say hd downloads are taking off already on the 360... to an extent.

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/new...hp?story=14180
this article is very old but shows the 360 download service could be doing far better than anybody thinks.

Those numbers are total for VOD movies, they are not for HD movies only. I don't have an Xbox, but my understanding is that they rent SD movies on their system also. I'd assume that the vast majority of movies rented are not HD. Perhaps Amir would like to provide us with a breakdown of the sales numbers?

Quote:


these figures are only going to increase now that apple is in the game as well as having alot more 360's out there.

I don't disagree that digital delivery is going to increase, but I think it will mostly be for SD and sub-SD resolution content. Mobile phones, iPods, Xbox360s hooked up to SDTVs, those are the places where the ease of use is high enough and the bandwidth requirements are low enough that there will be significant growth.

What should scare Apple and MSFT is if digital copies of movies become ubiquitous on Blu-ray disks. I will repurchase a DVD in a heartbeat to get both an HD disk and a version I can watch on an iPod, which means that the goliath B&M stores can actually make an assault on the internet's sales arena, rather than merely fighting rearguard action againts VOD sales that would put them out of business.

If you don't think BB, CC, Walmart etc. aren't going to get really, really serious about keeping customers coming to their stores for product rather than watching it all shift online, you are kidding yourself.
post #88 of 215
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC19 View Post

I hate all of these posts these days claiming that download content will replace all. Download movies suck. It is ok for some but a total crap solution for everyone.

Problems:

Not everyone has a broadband connection.

Not everyone wants to wait 1 hour to DL a movie. With a disk, just pick it off the shelf and play it. If you are too lazy to order a disk online or go to the store that is pathetic.

You can only own a few movies (storage space) and they are locked to one hardware unit. (what happens if that unit needs to be replaced, or you want to watch that movie in a different place?)

The quality sucks. Excessive compression for Dl time ruins PQ, AQ.

You can't have a collection of alot of movies. Storage space is limited. If you just buy disks, you can have as many as you want.

Transportation of DRM loaded DL movies between players not possible. DL a movie via XBL, how can you take it to a friends house (or another player in your house) and watch it on his PS3, BD player, even their 360? Yeah YOU CANT! Way too restrictive. Garbage

Download movies suck. It will never be as good as owning it on a physical media.

DL content is the studios dream. You never own the movie and have to go to them everytime you want to see it on a different platform. This is the Trojan horse they have always dreamed of convincing the public that is a good thing. Remember Circuit city's Divix format that sold cheap but required you to phone home every time you wanted to watch the movie? A failure. That was the first attempt, now the next attempt is Downloaded content. I don't buy it.

+1
It seems that most of the HD-DVD owners have been so used to having a format war that now the future isn't Blue but downloads are the way of the future. IMHO it will 10-15 years before true 1080p movie downloads become the norm (if ever!). Blue Ray is the future for the next decade or so and MS knows this and therefore will have a BD add-on.
post #89 of 215
edit: nevermind it's already been said in above posts
post #90 of 215
I doubt they spend money on just saving their face. They'll spend money on a FUD campaign that tells people that DD is the future and physical media will soon disappear.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Is it in Microsoft's best interest to release a Blu-ray add-on?