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Speakerquest (so far...) - Page 5

post #121 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Hey not to toot that horn again, but if you have upped the anti here.... maybe a shot at listening to the Paradigm Signature line... Thats right, I said it..

I just might do that, Warp. I really like the punchiness of the Studio 100's. Is the treble upper-mid section any smoother in the Sig series?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

By the way... congrats on hitting that 100 posts, and you are still no closer to your dream of another set of white van speakers...

Thanks, and THANKS A LOT ! I am never going to hear the end of it am I...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

I'll second that and asthetically hard to beat.

yeah, those white van speakers sure are pretty!
post #122 of 2196
Oh man...this is such an awesome thread, funkmonkey! I am going to finish reading the last few pages and then I will respond later tonight (or tomorrow at the latest). I just had to pop in and say I truly hope you find what you're looking for!

More later...
post #123 of 2196
I read some good things about salk sound towers in this thread but these look even better:

http://www.salksound.com/v3.shtml

It almost looks like these are perfect speakers, I wonder why haven't I heard about them before? I am going to be in Michigan next week, I think I am going to drive down to oakland and check these out.
post #124 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Oh man...this is such an awesome thread, funkmonkey! I am going to finish reading the last few pages and then I will respond later tonight (or tomorrow at the latest). I just had to pop in and say I truly hope you find what you're looking for!

More later...

Cool, thanks Nuance. couldn't/wouldn't have done it if you didn't inspire me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmed View Post

I read some good things about salk sound towers in this thread but these look even better:

http://www.salksound.com/v3.shtml

It almost looks like these are perfect speakers, I wonder why haven't I heard about them before? I am going to be in Michigan next week, I think I am going to drive down to oakland and check these out.

I know! I have been eyeing them since I first stopped by the site.

I will do the same next time I am back home...
post #125 of 2196
Thread Starter 
I just put links up through my reviews to spec sheets where I could, and product pages where i could not. So you should be able to click the names of the speakers and easily get to company site info. ... I was doing the same thing in my summary post and adding freq. response info next to ea. speaker, but I fat fingered something and lost the whole edit... I was almost done too... oh well, maybe later.
Cheers
Funk
post #126 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

Cool, thanks Nuance. couldn't/wouldn't have done it if you didn't inspire me.

teehee...thanks!

Hey, when are you heading to Curtis' place? I am very curious to see what you thought of the Sierra's.

Okay...been on here too long, so its time to get back to being "daddy." When she (daughter, not wife ) goes to bed, I'll be back.

P.S. This thread ROCKS!!! It's like revisiting mine, but better, with pictures and everything! WOOHOO!

Double P.S. Funk - I've noticed the more you listen, the more articulate you become in your reviews and the longer and more in depth they are. You are learning quickly and I really wish you lived near me so we could go audition together.

Okay...that's all for now. Back later...
post #127 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Tomorrow morning: I get to hear the Sierra's; Sunday: I get to hear the SongTowers !!!
post #128 of 2196
I posted a while back, and as it turns out funkmonkey and I are in the market for give or take the same price range.

Anyway, I tried the Dynaudio Focus 220, the Spendor S8e, and the Monitor Audio GS20.

For me, the Monitor Audios are out. They are very clinical, and for me they take the soul out of my music. They are a little bright too, and made it very difficult to listen to for extended periods of time, especially when played at higher volumes.

The real story was between the Dynaudio and the Spendor. They have very diffrent sounds, and I liked both. On one hand, I thought the Focus 220s were great with vocals, the bass wasn't overstated, and the top end was great. I personally didn't feel that the bottom end was to "flabby", when partenered with the Naim equipement I was using. The problem I had with them is that they didn't soundstage as well as the Spendors

The Spendors on the other hand are a diffrent beast: they produced a big and tall soundstage, had suprisingly great bass to them (deep and powerful), and the top end was very much similar to Dynaudio. The vocals, however, weren't as focused as the Dynaudios, the latter being a litte more forward in the midrange.

Bottom line, I'll likely come down to price or my mood on the day I buy them. I'm presently leaning towards the Dynaudio Focus 220s, as I already enjoy the "Dynaudio sound" with my Audience 62s. That being said, it's very clear to me that my dealer and many hi-fi magazines would likely favour the Spendors, as they (admittedly true), seem to sound a little more realistic, especially for instruments.

It's a toss up, but the Dynaudios in maple are looking mighty appetizing.

There is my 2 cents, as promised.
post #129 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisII View Post

. . .
Anyway, I tried the Dynaudio Focus 220, the Spendor S8e, and the Monitor Audio GS20.

For me, the Monitor Audios are out. They are very clinical, and for me they take the soul out of my music. They are a little bright too, and made it very difficult to listen to for extended periods of time, especially when played at higher volumes.

. . .

Not to focus on the negative, but could you expand upon or describe in different words your impressions of the MA GS's?

I used to own a pair but don't worry, I'm not on the defensive, I just curious how others percieve the same speakers.

I can see why you would call them bright, but what do you mean by clinical and soul-robbing?
post #130 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisII View Post

...There is my 2 cents, as promised.

Thanks for the follow-up Chris. The bass was more tight the second time I listened to the Focus 220, with same music and a little more power with much better placement. I really felt the Dynaudios were easy on the eyes and ears, though I may have to give the Splendors a listen too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

I've noticed the more you listen, the more articulate you become in your reviews and the longer and more in depth they are.

Funny you say that because I noticed the same thing as I was posting the links in the speaker names. The first couple were not even a full paragraph...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

You are learning quickly and I really wish you lived near me so we could go audition together...

Thanks, that would be a lot of fun... Are you back on the hunt? I can't remember. I thought you ended up with a set of SongTowers, but then I thought I read somewhere that you had the rockets... too many speakers rolling around in my head to remember.
post #131 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Can anybody find what the factory says the feq. response of the Focus 220's are? I couldn't find it on the Dynaudio site, but that as far as I got earlier today and I thought maybe one of you guys would know where to find it off hand.
post #132 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

Can anybody find what the factory says the feq. response of the Focus 220's are? I couldn't find it on the Dynaudio site, but that as far as I got earlier today and I thought maybe one of you guys would know where to find it off hand.

Here are the specs out of a Dynaudio brochure...

Focus 220;
87 dB Sensitivity
> 250 W Long term power handling
32 - 25,000 Hz Frequency response (+/- 3 dB)
4 ohms Impedance
18.7 kg Weight
8.1 x 38.6 x 11.6 inch (W x H x D)
$3000.00 (MSRP)

I was just about set to buy a new pr of 220's.
Then I listened to the Contour S3.4s (MSRP $5500.00)
That spkr has the sweetest tweeter I have ever heard.
I worked out a deal to buy the demo Rosewood pr for $3400.00 with a full 5 yr warranty from Dynaudio.
Also they said I could trade up to the C1's in the future.
I am picking them up today.

Good luck on your quest
post #133 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Not to focus on the negative, but could you expand upon or describe in different words your impressions of the MA GS's?

I used to own a pair but don't worry, I'm not on the defensive, I just curious how others percieve the same speakers.

I can see why you would call them bright, but what do you mean by clinical and soul-robbing?

Hard to explain really. I guess that they have a tendancy towards being a little too foward in the midrange and top end. Sometimes I listen to some Jazz, and with the MAs I thought the vocalists were singing AT me, as opposed to singing FOR me.... very subjective I know, but that's the best way I can explain it I think.
post #134 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisII View Post

Hard to explain really. I guess that they have a tendancy towards being a little too foward in the midrange and top end. Sometimes I listen to some Jazz, and with the MAs I thought the vocalists were singing AT me, as opposed to singing FOR me.... very subjective I know, but that's the best way I can explain it I think.

Yeah, it can be difficult to describe sound quality-- it's so intangible. There are many interesting differences in perspectives too. For me, what I liked *most* about the MA GS's was how they handled Jazz. Rock, not so much. But I know several people that love them for Rock too.
post #135 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Speakerquest (Round 9)
aka: the budget buster

The other day I went to listen to some speakers that were in the $5000 + range, and all I can say is WOW. If I were to spend that much money on a pair of fronts I could get almost everything I want out of a pair of speakers. Actually, they sounded like I thought a pair of $3000 speakers would sound like, when I started listening. Take all this with a huge shaker of salt because up to this point I had never heard a speaker that costs so freakin' much money! Forgive me if I gush...

Aerial 7B (≈$5000)

After the hi-fi guy finished fritzing around with the 7B's getting them in exactly the right spot, micro adjusting one speaker, then listening and micro adjusting the other one... for about ten minutes after I had arrived. I had phoned ahead (the day before, and again about an hour before our appointment) I managed to get a little preview of the off axis sound as I wandered around looking at all the really expensive stuff that littered the room. I wasn't familiar with whatever he had playing, and didn't particularly care for it, but I will say that the sound remained relatively consistent as I walked around. He finally was satisfied and said they were ready... He had them set up with a 150 or 200wpc (can't remember for sure) solid state amp to come close to what I would most likely be driving them with:

First up I put on The Beatles Come Together. Within seconds, I was about 8 or 9 years old, sitting on the orange corduroy couch my family had back in the 70's; listening to the Abbey Road album that my Uncle had just given me for my birthday, on my Dads old tube amp through his classic Advent speakers ! It was an amazing experience... total time warp. While the 7B's had all the warmth of the Advent/tube combo they sounded better. First note I wrote down was now, that's what I am talkin' about. Bass is full, rich, smooth and detailed. Vocals are clear and smooth. I could feel the drum beats thudding off my chest. Highs were detailed and sharp but without a cutting edge. Okay, it was cranked up much louder than my normal listening level but I was enjoying it immensely. We turned it down a little and proceeded with The End. The drums were thick and meaty, I felt like I was stoned and I haven't smoked weed in years! I was literally speechless. During the crescendo in this song I did notice that the upper mid section was coming off a bit forward. As I sat there listening, I kept thinking that these things image like a mother****er.

I changed gears with Fela Kuti, and again noticed the impact of bass and kick drums along with the clarity in the low end. Double kicks were separate and distinct. The brass came in and I thought that it had a slight edge to it. I thought that this was a full range speaker; dynamic but not in your face about it.

Erykah Badu was lush, warm and smooth on these Aerial's. Bass went deep and stayed tight (and that is no small task with the first track on her Baduizm CD). Rim shot's sounded like wood on metal. I also noted a nice separation of sound here.

Grant Green had piano sounding natural, cymbals decaying nicely, and dead on guitar tone. In the beginning of Idle Moments (from the CD of the same name; same track I have been using when I refer to Grant Green) there is a very low and easy saxophone and very light vibraphone that I had never noticed before, and I've listened to this track at least 24 times since I started this search. Acoustic bass sounded woody and full. Easy hits on the snare drum sounded nearly perfect. The slight distortion on the guitar is present, and appropriate.

With Fu Manchu the 7B's hold together nicely. Music here is full and detailed. Guitars, bass and drums are separate and distinct. There is a nice growl to the electric guitars, though not overly aggressive. I am starting to feel like this is a somewhat laid-back speaker.

I thought that this was a very nice looking speaker, conservative and classic in appearance. IMO this is a warm and musical speaker; I love the bass; it does nearly everything quite well, the time warp trick included . * I should add that, for me, the Aerial 7B had what I would call a nostalgic sound to it; it brought back warm and fuzzy memories and I would be tempted to use that same phrase to describe its sound though fuzzy would have to be interpreted in the best possible sense (not indistinct, just not hard edged)

_____________

As I was listening to the Aerials the shop owner kept asking me questions in-between songs and listening to what I was playing. About half way into Fela Kuti and a lot of chin scratching he tapped me on the shoulder and asked if I would like to hear something else after this one, of course I said, sure. Turns out this guy sees his customers as a challenge... to match up speakers and equipment to the listener. I think this is a very cool approach, and I think he does a good job of it, judging by what he unboxed for me to listen to...

T+A Criterion TS 300 (≈ $5,500)

This is a German speaker company that designs and builds drivers, cabinets, and crossovers all in-house (if I remember correctly). The cabinets were molded MDF jobs with a sexy little curve in the side pannels, and a dark walnut veneer. Nice looking cabinet, though I didn't care for the radiator grill covering the front port.

The sound? in a word... awesome. Keep in mind that these were literally right out of the box. So if you believe in break-in (I do, to a certain extent, because there are moving parts involved) I imagine the sound would improve with a bit of time on them. The dealer said that they get drastically better, but I tend to doubt the drastic part of that statement. The Beatles started of this audition and I found the sound to be tight, impactful, and very fast in the bass. Detail was apparent throughout the musical spectrum. Cymbals sounded excellent, and crisp. The imaging on the TS 300's was simply amazing. The speakers just disappeared, even when I opened my eyes it was very hard to think of the sound that was filling the room was coming from these two fairly thin towers.

Grant Green's sound was right on. excellent tone on his guitar. Acoustic bass extended very low and had that woody resonant quality that you hear and feel when you hear one live in a small jazz club. Piano sounded very natural and conveyed a percussive quality when keys were struck. The tone on the saxophone was outstanding. Again the imaging and soundstage were opened up in front of me so that I could literally locate the positioning of the instruments; Piano toward the back and left of center, sax mid stage just right of center... The snare sound was nearly perfect.

Erykah Badu sounded incredible on these T+A speakers. Crisp; detailed; tight; deep; impact; dynamic; Wow. Her vocal was sexy, lush and full. Rim shots were wood on metal accurate though they came across slightly forward than on the Aerials. Bass was very full and controlled.

This is a different animal than the Aerial's. More dynamic, more detailed, and not as warm. The TS-300 takes what I liked best about the Hawk and adds it to the best of the Studio 100, while I would liken the 7B's to more of a Focus 220ish sound, but much better. Both speakers had truly amazing imaging capabilities.

If this is what you get for $5g or more, consider me officially impressed. Is it worth the price? ...hard to say. You decide for yourself. The differences between these two candidates and the < $3g speakers I have heard, lies mostly in imaging and attention to the depth and control of low bass frequencies; improved impact; more fullness of the midrange; and detail with out sounding harsh or bright. I would love to own either of these expensive (to me) speakers. Neither one is perfect, but they both have nearly everything that I want out of my fronts, even though they each have a different sound. The only significant compromise, from my perspective, would be price (and that IS significant).

Edit: I have been searching the web for any information about these excellent sounding speakers (TS-300) and have not been able to find much, most of what I found has been in German or Russian. Based on the size and weight of these speakers, something didn't quite jive with their price tag to me. I was tipped off, by another forum member, about potential for them being overpriced in the states because of the weak dollar and strong euro and i am certain that this has increased their price. Another concern that I had, besides currency conversion, is the limited distribution and availability state side. This thought popped into my head as soon as the dealer said that he was one of only 4 dealers in the country. Because almost nobody else has them, their price can skyrocket unchecked (basic law of supply and demand), especially since they are such a fantastic sounding speaker. The third factor that is affecting their price is shipping costs, everything is made in Germany and shipped on an individual basis as far (as I can tell) so this is also a significant contribution to their cost. So, after a considerable amount of digging and translating languages I found a site that also had pricing information for some of the Dynaudio speakers, including the Focus 220's which cary a msrp of $3000 USD. Based on that number, and compared with what the same place was charging for the TS 300's they should actually cost $3200 USD !!!!!!! At that price these speakers would be a bargain.

Jump to Round 10
post #136 of 2196
Funkmonkey, as an observer of your quest it would seem to me that clearly this is the realm of speakers you desire to be in. To me, these last two reviews are the first time you have truly gushed over speakers. Obviously other speakers have impressed you but always with a downside as well. It has seemed like whatever you chose, you would be settling more so than finding your true winner. Perhaps you should continue to audition and save up until these speakers are attainable for you? Just my $.02...
post #137 of 2196
Once you hear speakers that take you back like that it's hard to go back to the lower range models. Did you get a chance to listen to the Sierra's and the Song Towers?
post #138 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Funkmonkey, as an observer of your quest it would seem to me that clearly this is the realm of speakers you desire to be in. To me, these last two reviews are the first time you have truly gushed over speakers. Obviously other speakers have impressed you but always with a downside as well. It has seemed like whatever you chose, you would be settling more so than finding your true winner. Perhaps you should continue to audition and save up until these speakers are attainable for you? Just my $.02...

You are absolutely right my friend. I would like to continue auditioning in this more expensive bracket, but it is down right depressing when I get home and turn on my current POS's... I just can't allow myself to go anywhere near something even more pricey or else I will be selling my truck to pay for them and never want to, or be able to leave home. Just sit and listen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by baumer View Post

Once you hear speakers that take you back like that it's hard to go back to the lower range models. Did you get a chance to listen to the Sierra's and the Song Towers?

I know... I am screwed. I listened to the SongTowers today, and Sierra's yesterday. I will do a write-up later. For now I will say that, for their price, they are both excellent speakers, but you probably know that already...
post #139 of 2196
So Funk -

Whatcha gonna do? Are you any closer to making a decision, or are you just going to enter a career as a part-time AV journalist?

Are you going to pony up and buy the T+A's? Or go with the best performer in a more reasonable price bracket? Which speaker would you buy from those in your realistic price range if you had to choose right now?

BTW - I spent the better part of the day yesterday replacing all of my in-wall wiring with Audioquest stuff in preparation of the arrival of MY dream speakers (Focal Electra Be's). Even though I don't really believe that wire makes much if any difference, I did it just to be safe. And the truth is, I needed a project to keep me busy while I wait for delivery. Every day closer becomes that much longer.

Cheers,

- Tim
post #140 of 2196
Hey funkmonkey are those T+A that brand's top of the line speakers? I was checking their website and came across these:

Criterion TCI 2E


That is one damn good looking speaker.
post #141 of 2196
Funkmonkey, I would also suggest possibly going back to the Dali dealer and seeing if he has any Helicons in stock? I auditioned quite a few things in the higher range of stuff you have looked at and ultimately went with them. I think they would be worth an audition if possible. They are a substancial step up from the Ikons you previously heard.
post #142 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Funkmonkey, I would also suggest possibly going back to the Dali dealer and seeing if he has any Helicons in stock? I auditioned quite a few things in the higher range of stuff you have looked at and ultimately went with them. I think they would be worth an audition if possible. They are a substancial step up from the Ikons you previously heard.

I can second that. I went to listen to the Ikons again today (with hopes to buy). For fun I had the salesman play me the Helicon 400s. I was such a step up, and a beautiful sound, that I'm considering them now.
post #143 of 2196
Funky Monkey... Trix are for kids... hehhehe

Maybe you might think of a listen to my dream speaker.. Did that dealer have a set of Aerial 9's... They are supposed to be the best of the best... on the used market they command a $5k price range... but are almost $10K new...

Which will more then likely be the Speaker I replace my Studio 100's with...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1209191961

Nothing wrong with working to attain ones dream's Isn't that the way of life...?
post #144 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

At this point in my quest I have realized that I am not going to find what I am looking for in a speaker for under $2000, that much is obvious to me now. I exchanged a few e-mails back and forth with Jim Salk and he graciously took the time to explain why in considerable detail. (Thank you, Jim. I had read that he was a good guy, but until you talk to him you really have no idea how true that is.)

Now that sounds like some very interesting reading - I've found his interviews etc always worthwhile - any chance of seeing a version of that fit for public circulation - either from you or from him?
post #145 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

So Funk -

Whatcha gonna do? Are you any closer to making a decision, or are you just going to enter a career as a part-time AV journalist?

That would be a pretty sweet job. I am sure as hell having fun and I'm not even getting paid!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

Are you going to pony up and buy the T+A's? Or go with the best performer in a more reasonable price bracket? Which speaker would you buy from those in your realistic price range if you had to choose right now?

Either T+A or Aerials would make me very happy, and I would have to listen to both again to pick a definite favorite. That dealer said he had a couple of other ideas for me in the same range, so I may have to make the drive again, with some different music. If/when I go back there my guess is that my wallet will be a lot lighter and my truck a little heavier.
Realistic range? SongTowers maybe, after listening to them today I think they are the best value. Hawks, are more my style, sound-wise, but cost a good bit more... still not sure. ...can't... take....the... p-p-pr-essure...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifisponge View Post

BTW - I spent the better part of the day yesterday replacing all of my in-wall wiring with Audioquest stuff in preparation of the arrival of MY dream speakers (Focal Electra Be's). Even though I don't really believe that wire makes much if any difference, I did it just to be safe. And the truth is, I needed a project to keep me busy while I wait for delivery. Every day closer becomes that much longer.

Nice to have made up your mind, isn't it??? yeah, go ahead rub it in.
I'm just jealous. Hey, Tim, if you don't like the Focal's after a week I will trade you for some fine "Digital pro Audio's"!

You used to have the 7B's right? care to deflate them a bit?
Cheers,
Greg
post #146 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rydenfan View Post

Funkmonkey, I would also suggest possibly going back to the Dali dealer and seeing if he has any Helicons in stock? I auditioned quite a few things in the higher range of stuff you have looked at and ultimately went with them. I think they would be worth an audition if possible. They are a substancial step up from the Ikons you previously heard.

I would like that, but it would be my third trip there, still haven't bought anything. I think they might be getting sick of me in there... Maybe I'll look for a another Dali dealer to bug, if you guys swear that the ribbons aren't as piercing on the Helicons...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAdamBomb View Post

I can second that. I went to listen to the Ikons again today (with hopes to buy). For fun I had the salesman play me the Helicon 400s. I was such a step up, and a beautiful sound, that I'm considering them now.

Did you bring home the Ikon's, or Monitors for the time being?
post #147 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post

Hey funkmonkey are those T+A that brand's top of the line speakers? I was checking their website and came across these:
Criterion TCI 2E
That is one damn good looking speaker.

Hey Gus,
They are sexy... and no,I am pretty sure the ones I listened to are kind of mid-line for them. I listened to the TCI-3 which, I think is a step down from the ones you spotted while they were un-boxing the TS-300's. The ones I saw had a different tweeter than the pic you posted (maybe that is the "new" model?) and were very, very detailed. Not fatiguing just crystal clear and revealing. I almost cried listening to "Something" from Abbey Road, half because of the music, and half because I knew that I would be spending even more money to get that sound...
post #148 of 2196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Funky Monkey... Trix are for kids... hehhehe

Maybe you might think of a listen to my dream speaker.. Did that dealer have a set of Aerial 9's... They are supposed to be the best of the best... on the used market they command a $5k price range... but are almost $10K new...

Which will more then likely be the Speaker I replace my Studio 100's with...
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ull&1209191961

Nothing wrong with working to attain ones dream's Isn't that the way of life...?

As for you MR... The 9's would be astounding, I am sure. I don't EVER want to hear them!!!!
post #149 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkmonkey View Post

As for you MR... The 9's would be astounding, I am sure. I don't EVER want to hear them!!!!


hehehhe I was wondering if you were just outright ignoring my comments all together now...

Used baby... 99 times out of 100, the really good stuff on Audiogon are products people have truly loved, but are forced to part with due to life unfortunate paths... and they just want to find a good loving home for their babies...

Continue on your hunt my good man.....
post #150 of 2196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

hehehhe I was wondering if you were just outright ignoring my comments all together now...

Used baby... 99 times out of 100, the really good stuff on Audiogon are products people have truly loved, but are forced to part with due to life unfortunate paths... and they just want to find a good loving home for their babies...

Continue on your hunt my good man.....

There are quite a bit Aerial 7B right now on audiogon for $2000-2500.
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