best buy offers hdtv calibration: how does it rate (details inside) - Page 6

Greetings

If you want ... merely copy the numbers from normal temp over to warm. That makes them the same.

Now take Normal ... and boost the BDRV to make it more blue. You might want to see where the cool BDRV is set first and simply arrive at some middle ground between where the correct setting is and where the extreme blue of cool is. That would be a good place to leave it. Normal was always someplace between warm and cool anyway.

The doing part is easy ... the moving around the service menu part is the time consuming thing. So learn to get in there and get yourself back that bluer normal mode.

Too bad no education was involved in the calibration process. When that component is present ... people simply no longer choose blue.

regards

As per your post 2 months ago:


You simply use the the settings in his signature except for B-DRV=86 and you are back to where you started according to your previous post.



Then you get Gregg who posts in the other thread you asked the questions in (and deMaster who you appear to respect already gave you a reference on him) - or his partner Michael which gave you advice in this thread - and have them calibrate your TV if you want it spot on - that is the place to start.

Your logic fails. Of course there will be more complaints with BB calibrations as they perform umpteen hundreds more than professionals from Mom and Pop shops.

Let's throw out the fact that we are talking about calibrations and just talk about a product or service in general. The more you sell, the more complaints you will have. That's just plain common sense. If I sell 100 of one product and get complaints on 10 of them, that's 10%. If Mom and Pop sell 10 of that product and get complaints on 2, that's 20%. Obviously 10 complaints sounds like an awfully lot more than 2 complaints but you need to look at how many units are moving. That's business 101 guy, it's not about quantity, it's about percentages.

It's not fair to say that everyone hates BB calibrations and they are terrible because for all we know, for every one complaint, there could be 50 or 60 satisfied customers.

I will end with the comment everyone makes about BB calibrations: It is without a doubt, 100%, all about who you get to perform the service for you.

I'm not a person who considers everyone should pay for a calibration unless they have money to spare as I think it's a very low bang for the buck, but from personal experience...

1. if my BB calibrator did not know anything about my Pioneer Elite ISF modes
2. if he did not have ControlCal to activate my ISF modes
3. finally, if he used Standard mode as the basis for his calibration

then you're talking about a systematic issue at large (including volume) for Pioneer owners; BB does not have the tools to get the job done and there are very low standards for quality and experience. I see there is no "If-And-Or-But" about not having the tools to calibrate a display. It does not matter if BB calibrated 1 to 1MM displays; it just means they did not calibrate 1MM displays correctly in this example.

Never mind the fact that he never returns my calls and email as I'll consider that an individual issue. Never mind the fact that I was charged in Nov 2008 and still have not been refunded yet. Never mind the fact that the calibrator only went into the Service Menu for 2 minutes to theoretically "restore" my settings.

A Dentist can remove a tooth properly - or someone can do it with a vice grip. Both remove the tooth. One does it somewhat better than the other.

Doesn't mean it can't be done - just makes the job more challenging without the proper tools and most times the results are not anywhere as satisfactory.

If you are willing to have your tooth taken out with vicegrips, perhaps you would be happy with the same crude tools that BB uses.

Best Buy Calibration = $300/hr, $200/hr more than your auto dealerships or mechanics.

You fail to see the fact that BB preys on the unknowing. I would guess that 90% or more of the BB calibration customers know nothing of AVS, furthermore most have no idea what a proper picture should look like or what a calibration should provide. A satisfied customer can also be a "cheated" customer if they don't know what they are getting.

A calibrator doing a 1000 improper calibrations only gets proficient in doing poor calibrations. A professional should improve with each calibration he does. An independent calibrator has his own reputation and livelihood to protect. If you want references and further business, you better do a good job. Even if your customer cannot tell a good calibration from a bad calibration, someone who later sees that display might be able to.

There are multiple reasons calibrators are switching from Sencore equipment. Cost is one factor, however those calibrators wanting accurate measurements on all types of displays are switching for different technologies in test equipment to more accurately measure the newer display technologies.

An independent calibrator is selling you himself and his services, a BB salesman is selling for a commission, no intention of "customer satisfaction" or ever hearing from or seeing that customer again. The are more like a used car salesman......

You are so wrong in thinking that the more calibrations one does, the more complaints they should/would naturally have. I have zero complaint record over all my calibration years, I expect to make 100% of my customers happy with their calibration results and my services. Complaints equal poor work/service. The cause may be any combination of the company's goals, guidelines and instructions, the employee's experience, capabilities and attitude, lack of or inadequate training, and quality and condition of the equipment.

It is not a matter of logic. It is a matter of behavior and priorities in doing business. You assume that the professionals that are an alternative to BB are treating service like BB does, which is just another commodity. The fact is that if you search out the best calibrators and interview them the way most of us have suggested, you will find, as Glen pointed out, that the real pros treat each client very individually and value their satisfaction. They do so to the point that they usually will not take a job calibrating a set for someone who is not a good candidate for it. BB on the other hand is selling a service to anyone whom they can close a deal with. The service is a commodity and as you point out, a certain percentage of unhappy customers is to be expected. This is a completely different perspective and method of providing service.

spoken like someone who is definitely not self-employed...

the couple previous posters did a good job of outlining the 2 different business models that are employed...

different models for different businesses serving different customer bases... y'know... business 101...

For the independent professional calibrator, it's all about the image and the customer. Quantity and percentages don't apply. Think of it more like "self-employment 101" Referrals (next weeks food on the table) come from "happy customers"

Those who equate what we do to the marketing of services by BB would also have a hard time understanding why most of us are HAPPY to have them in the business. They have raised awareness greatly. The same goes for the most successful specialty retailers. They love the big box stores because the generate lots of interest and expand the market. That makes for more customers with custom needs that can't be met by operations like BB.

Well this is obviously a lost cause since everyone in this thread loves to hate on anything big box... but I will give it one last go just for fun. I have no intention of winning this argument as it is obviously impossible. But anyway.. here we go...


Not a single employee of Best Buy has been on commission for well over a decade. We don't make a single dime more if you walk out of the store with a $6 coax cable, or a Pioneer 6020.


I obviously work for BB or I wouldn't be here defending them so heavily. Yes, I am a Home Theater Supervisor. The ISF calibrator that works out of our store I have worked with for 2 years. He has done roughly 1,800 calibrations in his career and has had one returned out of them. I'm curious as to how many you have done. I don't care whether you have done more or less, I'm just wondering.


Customers aren't stupid. They can see through BS. We aren't trained to take advantage of people. Are you kidding me? If only I could show you BB's retail operating model. It's the EXACT opposite of what you think it is.


BB is moving away from Sencore for the same reasons you just mentioned. We are in a test market for the new equipment. I don't remember the exact name of it but I will be sure to get back to you and let you know what it is.


You're welcome. I was around when BB first launched the calibration service, again, I was one of the test markets. The reason we began to offer the service is because customers wanted us to.

To everyone: Please stop assuming that 100% of BB employees are incompetent morons. I would agree with you that a large majority are, but it's not all of them. There are some of us out there that actually care about our jobs and legitimately want to help people get the right solution and have a great setup that works for them.

$300/hr Nothing personal, but as an "actual human being" who had a calibrator who did not know how to calibrate my set, was not able to calibrate my set and did not have the software to calibrate my set and he never ever ever ever responded to my messages, I'd say it is a systematic problem at BB.

These customers, including myself, are pretty clueless if you ask me.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....ustomerreviews

Everyone, please rate how unhelpful their reviews are.

To be honest, I knew the BB calibrator was not going to be able to get the job done before he started. But since there is a refund policy, I gave it a shot.


I'm sure there are a few good guys, but a large majority are clueless kids - referencing to the calibrators. $300/hr for a poor job, any customer who falls for this, including me, is clueless. $300/hr

It's $300 flat rate regardless of time... not $300 an hour. Stop it. You more than likely got at least $100 off the service as well since there is usually always a promotion on it. The only way you paid that price for it is if you A) didn't get a TV from BB, or B) you purchased a TV less than $999.

And just because you had one bad experience does not make it a systematic problem. You probably got a some new guy who was just working for a pay check and didn't really care. I said it before and I'll say it again.. it's 100% about who you get.

I have a $6500 plasma 60". Yes, it's systematic because BB does not have the software to calibrate it.

It's 100% who you get, but 95% of all BB calibrators are clueless so those odds are not favorable.

You responded to my post later in your comment where I point out that independents generally love the fact hat BB is in the market. You are making the assumtion that everyone hates big box stores while whining that we should not assume 100% of their employees are morons.



You are the one making assumptions about what "everyone" here thinks. No one is saying that all of their employees are morons. It is just unlikely that one will get as complete and as personalized service when dealing with a large vendor as compared to dealing with an independent specialist, particularly if you interview the individual and come to an understanding about what is being provided.

Congrats that you are ethical and concerned for the value that you provide your clients. Chances are that if you choose to make a long career in this business, however, you will end up being rather unsatisfied with the limitations that are inherent in the kind of operation that BB sustains. As independents, we can define the level of service that we provide based on what is best for the client. That is often not possible within the business model of a big box operation like BB. The serve a purpose in the market, just like the internet dealers and every other type of provider of products and services. They are not so much of a threat to us independents as many would assume and those of us who are successful usually do not see them as such.

But you suggest, in your blanket statement, that BB calibrators do not care about the quality of their work or their customers...that is a pretty ignorant generalization. Maybe people have good work ethics regardless of who they work for

and was certainly not mine. After taking the time to explain everything along the way he returned after a move and fw upgrade to recalibrate (and I live in rural Alaska). He pulled up my file compared the changes to setting after upgrade and redid the calibration from scratch and then compared the changes from all stages.

Where did he suggest that? I must have missed it.

I said what? Someone else mentioned quantity and percentages, I merely stated an independent calibrator is interested in the image and the customer. I have many years of experience in corporate management positions, I have seen how employees, work ethics, accountability, responsibility have dwindled over the years. I would never hire a young employee and send them out with my truck or equipment. It is a generalization, however I have seen how "employees" abuse company equipment and get by on as little effort as possible including shortcuts. There may be a few good ones, but in general, it's the one with the most risk who generally tries or does the best work.

It is good that BB is promoting calibrations. There is not nearly enough "press" on the benefit of calibration. I would guess that a majority of BB customers, sold a calibration, never heard of calibration before entering the store. They were given a pressure sales pitch to include it with their TV purchase, similar to an extended warranty. The customer who seeks a independent calibrator has some prior knowledge about calibration and is generally shopping for results. There are also those who want the "professional" for the BB price........

This is true. Most customers have no idea what it is before we tell them about it. There are a small amount that have read about it, heard it on the news, or have a friend/relative who had it done, but generally they have no prior knowledge. Most customers can see and understand the benifit on calibration, while again, a small portion think it's smoke and mirrors.


I'm assuming you have a Pioneer 6020? If that is true then yes you are correct. There was a time period where we did not have the correct software and training to calibrate the new Kuro plasmas when they arrived (as it should have been the case with every calibrator in the country). However, it has been resolved and we are equipped to fully calibrate them (in our market anyway)

Thank you. I pride myself on being what I consider to be an ethical person and not being in the business for the wrong reasons. Now don't get me wrong, I would much rather work (better yet own) a smaller independent operation but it's just not in the cards. If I was offered a position at one, you better believe I would take it. In my area, there isn't a big enough market for that type of business and the only smaller company in our area hasn't hired in the five years I've been here so it's just not going to happen. BB happens to be the only place that I can work at that I'm passionate about.

Back to the topic at hand, like I said, our calibration guy gets back from vacation next week and I will be sure to inquire as to what the new equipment he is testing is called. I'm sure all of you are very interested. He is finally calibrating my TV once he gets back so hopefully I will get to see it first hand.

"An independent calibrator is selling you himself and his services, a BB salesman is selling for a commission, no intention of "customer satisfaction" or ever hearing from or seeing that customer again. The are more like a used car salesman......"

I guess I equate customer satisfaction in the service industry as the goal for a serviceman.

"For the independent professional calibrator, it's all about the image and the customer"

You can argue the same for some BB Calibrators - pride in work and service? Either way it doesn't matter and you may not have been eluding to this, but there is this elitist atitude the BB calibrators are not capable of knowing how to do a proper calibration or that that they do a good job. Maybe most don't but there are some like above that do.

Are you saying the "BB Calibrator" is actually making the sales pitch and sale of his services, or is it a BB salesman selling a product that a BB employed calibrator will sent out to perform. There is a bit of a difference here. True, there may be some BB calibrators who take pride in their job and eventually may migrate to an independent calibrator. "In general" big store electronics sales personnel sell what they are told and how they are told. I have heard some awful, misleading, clueless replies and pitches to unknowing customers..... I have also asked some technical questions and have been walked away from. I have heard that if the sales personnel get the feeling/indication one is not going to buy or just shopping, move on to someone else.

The issue I have with many "new" calibrators is the fact many have never seen a truly calibrated reference system, nor do they spend much time watching one to get the background to "see" if something is off. Doing 1000 calibrations has no meaning towards calibration abilities.

As many have stated here there may be some good BB calibrators, but the percentages may be against being able to make a general statement. Not all independent ISF or THX calibrators are guaranteed to be able to give you the best calibration. How do you get the best in a calibration? First, interview your calibrator.......

Fair enough - I don't rely on Magnolia or BB's knowledge. I am not that knowledgable and I have yet to find anyone at my BB that understands more than I do. I constatntly hear falsities and outright lies from their sales staff. My local calibration guy has changed my generalized opinion - he may be the exception, but I am sure there are others that are really into their BB jobs and undertake it passionately with a zeal for quality. Does he know what a good calibration looks like? I would hope so after the ISF training and the 100's he has calibrated, but hen again...maybe not.

This is where a lot of false impressions materialize. The ISF class and probably the THX class don't fully cover what a "reference" image is. First thing, you need a display and components capable of creating that image, then, the proper equipment to calibrate it. Next you need to watch it, live with it, for quite some time to get used to the picture. Many calibrators don't own this level of resource. I have heard too many stories of calibrators who "trust" their instruments over their eyes.

Fuel for thought here

I have a 151-FD which basically doesn't require a calibration from a bang for the buck basis. It was only less than a week ago that they still don't have the software to activate my ISF modes.

I believe negative generalizations hold true as a majority of BB calibrators are clueless and this will have a reflection on all employees there. Spoil it for the 1 or 2 good guys there, but that's the way it works. BB could change this by ensuring standards to make the majority of calibrators are high quality, but that's not how it is and the odds are currently very unfavorable that a customer will get a good calibration.


Definitely not the case with mine, no before and after and especially in 45mins of work, he wouldn't even have time to do anything. I bet most customers are in this boat.

So the bottom line is...interview your calibrator before contracting to have service done. This is what most of the independent pros will tell you. This is not an elitist attitude at all. The point is that you are unlikely to get the level of service from a BB calibrator that you can from one of the best of the independents. If you compared the best of the BB guys with the best of the independents, there would be no contest. If you compare the best of the BB guys with a mediocre independents, you may have more similar service, but it will vary greatly with the specific individuals and location. I don't think it is elitist to recognize the differences in business models and the trends in service.

You get what you pay for, but only if you are lucky or doing your homework.

It does not work that way at Best Buy. I tried it to verify if the kid could calibrate my display. Best Buy does not have a method for you to contact the calibrator and they don't know who it will be. I persisted and told dispatch to leave my message to the kid, but month after month no one called me back. It's a chop shop.

If your ever bored one day all you HDTV guys, walk into a BB and walk around the tvs untill one of the sales guys/clowns asks you for help. Then try and throw everything you know about HDMI calibrations tv's EVERYTHING out the window and act like you have no clue what is going on. If you are ever in need of killing 45 minutes of your time, go this route. You wouldnt believe some of the BS that comes out of these guys mouths. Former seasonal BB employee myself, back when the xbox's first came out, not sure what year that was. But we were told the company makes more money off of selling you there warrenty plans, accessories and pretty much anything else that doesnt have big company name all over it. When it comes down to it, they will rob you either way. The turning point in your "you have absolutly no idea what an hdmi cable is" conversation with the poor BB employee, should always be when that mofo walks you over to those HMDI cables that will set you back about 90 bucks, but dont worry, your 120hz 1080p will look so much better. As soon as this happens, thats when you start busting out your knowledge of HDMI cables, differences between plasmas, lcd, dlps crts the whole works...... For some odd reason the "omfg who is this guy" reaction that happens everytime is worth the wasted time you spent listening to his garbage. Support the smaller tv chains and online companies, best buy is great for a good bathroom if needed and a sprite on the way out! Dont mind that guy who just got bent on a 46" lcd walking out with a smile on his face. Little does he know, bubba will be waiting for his return