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best buy offers hdtv calibration: how does it rate (details inside) - Page 12

post #331 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post

i am looking for reference to this . So far I've not found anything detailed enough but my understanding is that the minimum packet loss with HDMI is larger than a single pixels worth of picture info.

Even if it were a single pixel even if it were in a single channel ( a pixel in the red channel being 100% on or off) would be obvious. My point is that HDMI failure is not at any point "subtle".

It can occur in one isolated pixel, in other words it need not occur on a group or block of collocated pixels or a longer portion of a line time, but it almost certainly will be happening on many other pixels across the screen as well. So you're going to be seeing sparklies all over the screen, sporadically, or as things worsen in much more severe degree. Though it can relate to the image content as well.

I have seen systems with minor sparklies that people actually, apparently lived with for a long time and accepted, knowing no better (and not being picky I guess...). But to me this still goes in the catgory of 'cabling failure.'
post #332 of 454
posts deleted: please take note
post #333 of 454
I have a Pioneer 50" (5080HD), 50 Panasonic (TH-50px50U...about 3 yrs old), and a 58 Panasonic (TH- 58PZ850). At first I really didn't think too much about calibration let a lone one from Best Buy. I decided to get my Pioneer calibrated as the guinea pig...and it made a crazy amount of difference. I searched for the best settings on the web and found one that def improved the pic quality. After the calibration...holy crap. Went back in and got my other two sets calibrated. But they do 2 HDMI inputs, not all of them. I only use the two anyway (because HDMI running to receivers...so that shouldn't make a difference right?). But anyway...I was happy with it, and in the end that's all that matters. The whole thing with saving 50% of energy bill seems a bit too high though.
post #334 of 454
Want real fun?

Tell them you'll buy whatever set you want (you can always back out or return it) if they can demonstrate and measure the 15,000:1 Contrast Ratio they state in their new TV Commercial with the "professional" ISF equipment they use to calibrate sets.

Or better yet, just ask the normal salesperson (as seen on tv) how contrast ratio is measured, if they get it right, hand them a Minolta LS-100 and ask them to prove the spec they are quoting.
post #335 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by tua09788 View Post

I have a Pioneer 50" (5080HD), 50 Panasonic (TH-50px50U...about 3 yrs old), and a 58 Panasonic (TH- 58PZ850). At first I really didn't think too much about calibration let a lone one from Best Buy. I decided to get my Pioneer calibrated as the guinea pig...and it made a crazy amount of difference. I searched for the best settings on the web and found one that def improved the pic quality. After the calibration...holy crap. Went back in and got my other two sets calibrated. But they do 2 HDMI inputs, not all of them. I only use the two anyway (because HDMI running to receivers...so that shouldn't make a difference right?). But anyway...I was happy with it, and in the end that's all that matters. The whole thing with saving 50% of energy bill seems a bit too high though.

Yeah you won't be saving much on your energy bill. Any reduced power consumption is an incedential by product of the calibration and not one of the goals at all. Not only that trying to acheive any specific goal will lead to poor results.
post #336 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Any reduced power consumption is an incedential by product of the calibration and not one of the goals at all.

FWIW, Joel would dispute you on that fact and makes a point of talking about it in ISF Courses he teaches.
post #337 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Yeah you won't be saving much on your energy bill. Any reduced power consumption is an incedential by product of the calibration and not one of the goals at all. Not only that trying to acheive any specific goal will lead to poor results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

FWIW, Joel would dispute you on that fact and makes a point of talking about it in ISF Courses he teaches.

A Plasma can see significant power reduction from calibration. Mainly due to taking the unit out of "torch" mode. I know they have tested the results and yes, you can see a power consumption reduction. Way too many factors to say how much. Calibration to D65 and reducing contrast will generally reduce power consumption for plasmas, but not on bulb and LCD units, Power consumption is reduced on LCD by reducing backlight level....... LED..???
post #338 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

FWIW, Joel would dispute you on that fact and makes a point of talking about it in ISF Courses he teaches.

I doubt he would dispute what I said.

It's a by product, not a goal. The gains are incedental.

Are they real? Sure.
Are they limited to Plasmas? Mostly.

Do calibrators pay any attention to power consumtion during the calibration process? None what so ever.
post #339 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by tua09788 View Post

I have a Pioneer 50" (5080HD), 50 Panasonic (TH-50px50U...about 3 yrs old), and a 58 Panasonic (TH- 58PZ850). At first I really didn't think too much about calibration let a lone one from Best Buy. I decided to get my Pioneer calibrated as the guinea pig...and it made a crazy amount of difference. I searched for the best settings on the web and found one that def improved the pic quality. After the calibration...holy crap. Went back in and got my other two sets calibrated. But they do 2 HDMI inputs, not all of them. I only use the two anyway (because HDMI running to receivers...so that shouldn't make a difference right?). But anyway...I was happy with it, and in the end that's all that matters. The whole thing with saving 50% of energy bill seems a bit too high though.

Months ago, the company sent out an email saying that energy savings should not be sold as a benefit of our calibration service. Sometimes a calibration can actually increase power consumption depending the tv. Even if it happens to decrease consumption, it's not like it's a huge difference off your monthly bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Yeah you won't be saving much on your energy bill. Any reduced power consumption is an incedential by product of the calibration and not one of the goals at all. Not only that trying to acheive any specific goal will lead to poor results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

Want real fun?

Tell them you'll buy whatever set you want (you can always back out or return it) if they can demonstrate and measure the 15,000:1 Contrast Ratio they state in their new TV Commercial with the "professional" ISF equipment they use to calibrate sets.

Or better yet, just ask the normal salesperson (as seen on tv) how contrast ratio is measured, if they get it right, hand them a Minolta LS-100 and ask them to prove the spec they are quoting.

Best Buy uses a product similar to this kit made by Sencor http://www.sencore.com/products/video-generators/150 (I'm not sure on the exact model or series) Plus contrast ratio is overstated by every manufacturer and usually isn't worth looking at when comparing sets.

About our commercials, they're just intended to prove a point that our employees go through trainings and at least know the basics unlike wal-mart employees. Chances are your regular blue shirts may not always know what they are talking about, but there are definitely a lot of us who do.
post #340 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianBoy2593 View Post

Best Buy uses a product similar to this kit made by Sencor http://www.sencore.com/products/video-generators/150 (I'm not sure on the exact model or series) Plus contrast ratio is overstated by every manufacturer and usually isn't worth looking at when comparing sets.

About our commercials, they're just intended to prove a point that our employees go through trainings and at least know the basics unlike wal-mart employees. Chances are your regular blue shirts may not always know what they are talking about, but there are definitely a lot of us who do.

Oh, so lets recap here....

The Sencore products you listed cannot measure dark levels well enough to get a proper contrast ratio, yet ISF lists Contrast Ratio as the most important factor in Picture Quality.

Best Buy knows Contrast Ratios are overstated, yet uses them when trying to sell TVs?

And the commercials are not accurate (which would be labeled by the FTC as false advertising).

What else did I miss?
post #341 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

Oh, so lets recap here....

The Sencore products you listed cannot measure dark levels well enough to get a proper contrast ratio, yet ISF lists Contrast Ratio as the most important factor in Picture Quality.

Best Buy knows Contrast Ratios are overstated, yet uses them when trying to sell TVs?

And the commercials are not accurate (which would be labeled by the FTC as false advertising).

What else did I miss?

1. I said that I am unsure of the exact product meaning that the one I listed is probably not the exact model Best Buy uses. I simply went to the Sencore site and linked the closet model I saw.

2. Contrast is usually overstated, it does give a good comparision when comparing sets from the same manufacturer, but not from different manufacturers because their measurements will vary. Plus everyone states the dynamic contrast ratio, not the static giving the contrast ratio at one point in time, not over a period. It's become a numbers game and people just see a higher number and always assume it's better than the next.

3. I never said our commercials weren't accurate. I simply meant that Best Buy's selling point is that we train our employees around our products and services unlike Wal-Mart who's main selling point is price.

4. My main point is that a lot of people on this board don't give us much credit at all. I'm not trying to speak for the company because I know there a lot of people who don't know what they are talking about. There are many of us who do work hard for our job and enjoy what we do. I'm a full time student who works a full time and 2 part time jobs to pay for college.
post #342 of 454
I will be having Best Buy calibrate my set here in the next couple of weeks. They only charged me $150 for it after discounts were applied (I guess they are able to push it out at a lower cost if need be) because I wasn't about to have it calibrated.

I should note I'm normally very content with my own picture settings, as I tend to have a good eye for adjusting the user menu settings to about where they make the most natural picture.

With my latest purchase, the Samsung PN50B650 plasma, it has way too many adjustments for me to make on my own (color settings, specifically). I have been able to get an awesome picture out of it with my own eyes and with a little help from Sony blurays (the "hidden" calibration menu).

That said, I'll report here when I get it done and see exactly how it compares to my own settings. I believe they give a report to show where I was before the calibration, and where they managed to get it afterwards. I'll try and post those as well.
post #343 of 454
Greetings

There's what you think is an answer that you like ... and then there is the correct answer. The two may not be the same ... and usually are not the same at all.

The quest for calibration is the the quest to get it right. Unfortunately, it is not about getting an image that you happen to like. Like and dislike have nothing to do with it.

While graphs are interesting things to look at, they don't tell the whole story ... in fact they rarely tell even half the story. This means that it is very possible to have pretty graphs and bad images.

regards
post #344 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

There's what you think is an answer that you like ... and then there is the correct answer. The two may not be the same ... and usually are not the same at all.

The quest for calibration is the the quest to get it right. Unfortunately, it is not about getting an image that you happen to like. Like and dislike have nothing to do with it.

While graphs are interesting things to look at, they don't tell the whole story ... in fact they rarely tell even half the story. This means that it is very possible to have pretty graphs and bad images.

regards

This is the kind of technobabble that does little to inform and much to create a large rift between the "calibration" crowd and the rest. If you cannot discuss contexts that relate what "get it right" means, and how that relates to "like and dislike" you are spinning the wheel with no fibres, IMO. I am about providing a service to maximize the enjoyment and functionality of my clients' systems. That often has a lot to do with "getting it right" and sometimes nothing at all. When a client is educated on the relationship between their preferences and what calibration can provide, he can make an intelligent decision. Some people just want you to tell them what is right and calibrate their set and they will never care any more than that. Most people who come here are trying to get a better idea of what that means, and unfortunately, Michael, you and others often talk in circles rather than saying much that is useful.

Saying that calibration is not about getting an image that you like is like saying science is not about technology. It may well be so, but one must have an understanding of science to apply it properly. Similarly, if we have no regard for what makes a pleasing display, what point is there in what we do? You can be technically very correct and be useless at the same time. The relationship between the client's needs, the technology, and the ability to calibrate the system is the very crux of what we should be attending to. This is what separates the best calibrators from the fast food calibrators and the techno-snobs. To dichotomize calibration and preference makes the same mistake as the engineer who designs a product with no regard for how it will be applied in the real world. Arrogance at its worst...

You and I both know that you can contribute much more to the forums than this. Please do so.
post #345 of 454
Greetings

You can continue to do it your way ... and I will do it with my style. You are not the etiquette police here.

regards
post #346 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

This is the kind of technobabble that does little to inform and much to create a large rift between the "calibration" crowd and the rest. If you cannot discuss contexts that relate what "get it right" means, and how that relates to "like and dislike" you are spinning the wheel with no fibres, IMO. I am about providing a service to maximize the enjoyment and functionality of my clients' systems. That often has a lot to do with "getting it right" and sometimes nothing at all. When a client is educated on the relationship between their preferences and what calibration can provide, he can make an intelligent decision. Some people just want you to tell them what is right and calibrate their set and they will never care any more than that. Most people who come here are trying to get a better idea of what that means, and unfortunately, Michael, you and others often talk in circles rather than saying much that is useful.

Saying that calibration is not about getting an image that you like is like saying science is not about technology. It may well be so, but one must have an understanding of science to apply it properly. Similarly, if we have no regard for what makes a pleasing display, what point is there in what we do? You can be technically very correct and be useless at the same time. The relationship between the client's needs, the technology, and the ability to calibrate the system is the very crux of what we should be attending to. This is what separates the best calibrators from the fast food calibrators and the techno-snobs. To dichotomize calibration and preference makes the same mistake as the engineer who designs a product with no regard for how it will be applied in the real world. Arrogance at its worst...

You and I both know that you can contribute much more to the forums than this. Please do so.

I feel that you are exactly right. I originally came to this forum for help and questions on home theater PC's, but since I went back to retail selling home theater, I'm trying to educate myself more about the process of calibration. I think that we can all agree that calibration is about getting the best performance a tv can produce while maintaining accuracy with regard to color, grayscale, etc. I try to learn from this forum and directly from my calibrators instead of going through some of the home theater trainings. I'll admit I know basic concepts of calibration, but I'm at least making an attempt to learn more about it every day. I apologize for being a little bit defensive in the last few posts, and I feel that instead of bickering all over this thread that it should be more of a collaboration because there are so many people here that have a great background of knowledge.

I'll admit that I'm going to defend a lot of complaints about Best Buy. One because I work there, and two because they've done nothing but give me great opportunities within the company. I understand there are hundreds of issues that people have every day with us, but there is a reason why we are still around. I feel that this company has been one that has adjusted through change and as of right now we're even changing our sales model to become even better. If there are things that I personally can do for anyone on this board I'm always willing to help out.
post #347 of 454
As I have said many times, BB has its place in the market. Their system has inherent limitations and the expectations need to be realistic for what can be accomplished withing that system. You can defend them all you want, and you and those that you describe may be very good at what you do, but it does not mean that you will get the kind of service and experience from BB that can be found in most markets with a little more careful shopping. It is what it is.

Regardless, we should be able to discuss where BB fits into the market realistically just like we should be able to discuss how calibration fits into the needs of a variety of clients. If you learn how to better serve your clients, you have accomplished something. Learning requires reflective analysis of what we do and how we behave. Many here could do with a large dose of it.
post #348 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

There's what you think is an answer that you like ... and then there is the correct answer. The two may not be the same ... and usually are not the same at all.

The quest for calibration is the the quest to get it right. Unfortunately, it is not about getting an image that you happen to like. Like and dislike have nothing to do with it.

While graphs are interesting things to look at, they don't tell the whole story ... in fact they rarely tell even half the story. This means that it is very possible to have pretty graphs and bad images.

regards

I feel like you're speaking in riddles. Now, I'm no calibrator, but as I understand it calibration is about getting the best performance you can out of your set to what is considered as close as possible to industry standards.

From what I'm reading in your post, however, you're saying that even if everything is checking out ok as far as numbers are concerned, the image could be poor.

If this isn't a numbers game, then what is the point of calibrating with equipment? Why not just calibrate by eye?
post #349 of 454
Greetings

There is nothing wrong with the service that BB offers. I think it is great. It serves a purpose and fills a void.

There is something wrong with thinking the service (or calibration in general) is something that it is not. The process is more involved than just a fancy print out in the end. The printed report can't do it justice because of what is not shown in these same reports. So many have made the innocent mistake of placing too much value in the printout ... and losing sight of what the whole process is supposed to be about.

Liking and disliking is not the point of the process ... and that is easily pointed out early on in any discussion. Not hard at all. But if the person insists of holding onto a need to like and dislike ... then we have to start to think twice about the service. Because someone is not listening ... and what else won't they listen to as well.

It's called being on the same page and proceeding. Never want to sucker a person into a service that they shouldn't really want.

regards
post #350 of 454
greetings

Never said the paperwork was without value. Only that it shows an incomplete picture of the entire process.

You can have a pretty graph ... but it won't show you that the projector is set up wrong using features that cut the resolution in half ... or that the dvd player or satellite receiver was set up wrong. Don't think any of this has any impact on image quality? It just shows you how good your grayscale is ... and not much more. (BB end of things ... )

regards
post #351 of 454
Greetings

And I do sound like I speak in riddles sometimes because I like to expect a higher level of comprehension from people. Read it a few times ...

regards
post #352 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

This is the kind of technobabble that does little to inform and much to create a large rift between the "calibration" crowd and the rest. If you cannot discuss contexts that relate what "get it right" means, and how that relates to "like and dislike" you are spinning the wheel with no fibres, IMO. I am about providing a service to maximize the enjoyment and functionality of my clients' systems. That often has a lot to do with "getting it right" and sometimes nothing at all. When a client is educated on the relationship between their preferences and what calibration can provide, he can make an intelligent decision. Some people just want you to tell them what is right and calibrate their set and they will never care any more than that. Most people who come here are trying to get a better idea of what that means, and unfortunately, Michael, you and others often talk in circles rather than saying much that is useful.

Saying that calibration is not about getting an image that you like is like saying science is not about technology. It may well be so, but one must have an understanding of science to apply it properly. Similarly, if we have no regard for what makes a pleasing display, what point is there in what we do? You can be technically very correct and be useless at the same time. The relationship between the client's needs, the technology, and the ability to calibrate the system is the very crux of what we should be attending to. This is what separates the best calibrators from the fast food calibrators and the techno-snobs. To dichotomize calibration and preference makes the same mistake as the engineer who designs a product with no regard for how it will be applied in the real world. Arrogance at its worst...

You and I both know that you can contribute much more to the forums than this. Please do so.

I think this is kind of a straw argument. Michael's point is that calibration is about accuracy to an objective standard. Achieving that is an activity of mainly objective measurements, but done through experience. Inevitably, the display is not perfect, and some compromises will be made in achieving as accurate an image as possible.

But it isn't fundamentally about turning the adjustment knobs (or pressing buttons, unless you're stuck in the 80s like me!) to give you the picture that you like or that looks good to you.

But in dealing with a novice, you have to get across that fundamentally there isn't much in the way of preference when it comes to calibration, because it is about accuracy to a reference. It is kind of a black or white issue, in a crude sense, because either the image is accurate or it isn't.

Now, as you delve deeper, you realize that in achieving that accuracy, some compromises are necessary. These come into play when you decide what TV you want (what set of strengths and weaknesses of capabilities you end up with), and to a certain degree some other calibration choices (display brightness, gamma, perhaps black level w/ambient light, clip or don't clip peak whites, etc) can enter in. These are relatively advanced minutia.

But calibration, fundamentally, is about what the picture should look like, not what some arbitrary person wants the picture to look like. To this end, a big part of the calibration process is educating the customer, so that they learn to appreciate what an accurate image looks like. In this way, the person's wants begin to align with what is right, and then there isn't conflict. It is usually the person who has never gotten the chance to really appreciate an accurate reference image, and doesn't even know that they want that, and at first they may not want it.

It's like somebody who hears a really flat subwoofer, properly calibrated into the system for the first time. That's accurate. But to the unknowing ear, it might sound thin compared to the bad-sounding bloat of a crummy system with the bass set way too high. But then you spend some time listening and discussing what sounds "real," and suddenly somebody who wanted horribly inaccurate before simply out of lack of knowledge and attention, desires and appreciates accurate.
post #353 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

And I do sound like I speak in riddles sometimes because I like to expect a higher level of comprehension from people. Read it a few times ...

regards

Well that was very rude and I'm not quite clear on where you're coming from. My reading comprehension is just fine. On the flipside perhaps your writing style is just not as clear as you intend it to be? You ended up posting three times in response to my post, with each post starting and ending with your standard "greetings" and "regards". Why not just edit your original post?

I'm asking a question in response to what you posted. As I mentioned, I'm not a calibrator, and I have no real interest in learning every little thing regarding the subject.

On the subject of reading comprehension, I don't believe I ever mentioned in my post anything about liking or disliking anything, nor throwing "want" into the equation. I said I was content with my settings and was curious to see how they will compare on the readout Best Buy takes before and after they do the calibration.

Lastly, this thread is about Best Buy calibration and how it rates. There are many arguments within this thread about the quality of service they offer, that much is for sure. I myself am in the technology field, specifically in networking. Being that I am trained in the subject, I would never trust Best Buy to do my own work simply because I am indeed biased about others and their knowledge. I'm going to assume you're coming from the same view here.

Ultimately the most that myself, the consumer, can do is to post the graph that is given and my opinion on the results. Will a big box store like Best Buy offer a service rivaling local calibrators? Not likely at all, simply because of the size of Best Buy and the fact they do want to push out these services as cheaply as possible to make their money.
post #354 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

I feel like you're speaking in riddles. Now, I'm no calibrator, but as I understand it calibration is about getting the best performance you can out of your set to what is considered as close as possible to industry standards.

From what I'm reading in your post, however, you're saying that even if everything is checking out ok as far as numbers are concerned, the image could be poor.

If this isn't a numbers game, then what is the point of calibrating with equipment? Why not just calibrate by eye?

He is saying that it is a numbers game, but that a single graph can't tell the whole story.

There are so many bits that go into image fidelity that without a very complex readout it's hard to know exactly how good the picture is (even before you get to things like 120hz interpolation).

The other point is that some people like the picture to look as neon as possible. The brighter the better, burn your eyes out after 30 minutes. The more subdued naturual looked of a calibrated image isn't always what people expect considering marketing always says BIGGER BRIGHTER.

So calibration isn't about what you like.
Calibration is about being as accurate as possible.

Calibration is also about the things that don't show up (making sure your calbe box is hooked up for HD, making sure the output of your upscaling DVD player is acutally set to 1080p) in a chart. Anyone that's been out in the feild has seen some pretty horrible "proffessional" installaions.
post #355 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

He is saying that it is a numbers game, but that a single graph can't tell the whole story.

There are so many bits that go into image fidelity that without a very complex readout it's hard to know exactly how good the picture is (even before you get to things like 120hz interpolation).

The other point is that some people like the picture to look as neon as possible. The brighter the better, burn your eyes out after 30 minutes. The more subdued naturual looked of a calibrated image isn't always what people expect considering marketing always says BIGGER BRIGHTER.

So calibration isn't about what you like.
Calibration is about being as accurate as possible.

Calibration is also about the things that don't show up (making sure your calbe box is hooked up for HD, making sure the output of your upscaling DVD player is acutally set to 1080p) in a chart. Anyone that's been out in the feild has seen some pretty horrible "proffessional" installaions.

Thanks for clearing that up. I still don't understand why his response to my original post was directed at me, since I never mentioned anything contrary to these things. As I mentioned, I'm all for a natural looking picture, and that means no torch settings, deep blacks (without losing detail), sharp picture, and color clarity. I know how to setup equipment with the proper settings beyond the television as well.
post #356 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

On the subject of reading comprehension, I don't believe I ever mentioned in my post anything about liking or disliking anything, nor throwing "want" into the equation. I said I was content with my settings and was curious to see how they will compare on the readout Best Buy takes before and after they do the calibration.

well you started off saying

Quote:
I should note I'm normally very content with my own picture settings, as I tend to have a good eye for adjusting the user menu settings to about where they make the most natural picture.

With my latest purchase, the Samsung PN50B650 plasma, it has way too many adjustments for me to make on my own (color settings, specifically). I have been able to get an awesome picture out of it with my own eyes and with a little help from Sony blurays (the "hidden" calibration menu).

While you can do some adjustments with your eyes and a good pluge pattern (black level/white level), there is hardly anything else you can do with your eyes. So that is why when you say you have an "awesome" picture that is strictly an opinion and does not relate one bit to having an accurate picture.

You can do more with a blue filter (get basic color and tint) and even a step further with 3 filters (basic color decoding). You still cannot even attempt to do grey scale or gamma calibrations.

That initial post may not have communicated your position clearly. Lord knows I started out with the THX optimizer, then the AVIA disc + 3 color filter, then the spyder 2 and HCFR, now I have a chroma5 and calman. It's learning process if you are going to do your own work and I know for sure that every step along the way my picture got incrementally better. Don't take Micheal's post as threating or discouraging. If you want me to decode what he said line by line I've followed him enough to have a good idea what he ment (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth Mike).
post #357 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

well you started off saying



While you can do some adjustments with your eyes and a good pluge pattern (black level/white level), there is hardly anything else you can do with your eyes. So that is why when you say you have an "awesome" picture that is strictly an opinion and does not relate one bit to having an accurate picture.

You can do more with a blue filter (get basic color and tint) and even a step further with 3 filters (basic color decoding). You still cannot even attempt to do grey scale or gamma calibrations.

That initial post may not have communicated your position clearly. Lord knows I started out with the THX optimizer, then the AVIA disc + 3 color filter, then the spyder 2 and HCFR, now I have a chroma5 and calman. It's learning process if you are going to do your own work and I know for sure that every step along the way my picture got incrementally better. Don't take Micheal's post as threating or discouraging. If you want me to decode what he said line by line I've followed him enough to have a good idea what he ment (sorry if I'm putting words in your mouth Mike).

Well in my defense I never claimed to have an accurate, calibrated set. I do have a natural looking picture, but I'm sure it can be improved even further with a calibration. As you mentioned this is all my opinion, and unfortunately that is all I can offer.

I actually just tonight used the AVS HD MP4 to tweak my set even further and was able to utilize the blue filter that my set has. I've already noticed a further improvement in image quality as a result.

If this thread is purely about a professional calibrator's opinion on Best Buy's calibration service, then I misunderstood in posting here. I was purely going to offer what I currently experience and then post a followup on what I feel Best Buy was able to do for me.
post #358 of 454
I thank everyone here for their help and hope to learn more from a lot of you. I trust a couple of my calibrators because they previously were private calibrators and joined our GS team, not installers who were promoted from level 3 and sent to minn. for our calibration training. I feel that overall we have some really good people working in the Dallas area. We did start out as a test market so our guys have been working the longest since BB started rolling out this service. I've said this in previous posts, the issues with a lot of calibrators for BB is that many of them take shortcuts. While talking to my district managers, we've decided to give our calibrators extra time between jobs allowing them to do a complete job. 1.5-2 hours from my experience just doesn't seem to be enough time. I've read some things about 3-4 or even 5+ hours on this board. What do you guys think? I know it's not something that can be pinpointed to a certain length of time, but on average what is a good estimate?
post #359 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianBoy2593 View Post

I thank everyone here for their help and hope to learn more from a lot of you. I trust a couple of my calibrators because they previously were private calibrators and joined our GS team, not installers who were promoted from level 3 and sent to minn. for our calibration training. I feel that overall we have some really good people working in the Dallas area. We did start out as a test market so our guys have been working the longest since BB started rolling out this service. I've said this in previous posts, the issues with a lot of calibrators for BB is that many of them take shortcuts. While talking to my district managers, we've decided to give our calibrators extra time between jobs allowing them to do a complete job. 1.5-2 hours from my experience just doesn't seem to be enough time. I've read some things about 3-4 or even 5+ hours on this board. What do you guys think? I know it's not something that can be pinpointed to a certain length of time, but on average what is a good estimate?

Alot depends on the model and the calibrators experience with the model. I know my toshiba is a bit peculiar when it comes to gamma/cuts/drive/contrast. Balancing everything to get the most out of the set takes not only knowledge of the theorory, but experience with how the controls interact on my display. So while I can sit down and take 2 hours to verify what my set is doing, someone else trying to do the same thing from out of the box may need 3 or more hours to ahve a chance to play around and see how the set responds to different configurations.
post #360 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeonus View Post

Well in my defense I never claimed to have an accurate, calibrated set. I do have a natural looking picture, but I'm sure it can be improved even further with a calibration. As you mentioned this is all my opinion, and unfortunately that is all I can offer.

I understand, but at the same time in the calibration forum "awesome" = calibrated. At least from a goal stand point, so while you may have inteded for that to be iterpreted as a modest statement others may have seen it as bold claim of a highly accurate picture.

The fact that you are even on here and want to give a testament of your before and after BB calibration experience is great. I can't wait to find out how it goes for you.
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