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best buy offers hdtv calibration: how does it rate (details inside) - Page 15

post #421 of 454
I am not looking to go into the service menu at all nor do I think it is a magical place. Was just asking if it had one and what was in it. As for my calibration I do not think it is as good as it should. The picture lacked depth and sharpness. After he left I adjusted it myself. I used the preset Vivid mode. Then I turned down the backlight to 4 and brightness to 50. Then I just use my Onkyo 818s video processor ISF day, ISF night, or Cinema to adjust to the program I'm viewing. Outcome is a sharp picture with deep clear blacks and vivid colors that is not overpowering with brightness.
post #422 of 454
Wow, big thread.

Thanks to my most recent purchase, this will put me over the threshold for Best Buy Reward Zone Silver. According to the info blurb, this means...
Quote:
FREE House Call from a Geek Squad® Agent. We'll help you make the most of your technology with your choice of one of the following services per year
TV Calibration – Having an HDTV is one thing. Having it personalized to your exact needs is another. Our ISF- certified installers will come to your home and calibrate your HDTV so you're seeing it the way it was meant to be seen.
Setting up your home wireless network (or upgrading your current one) so that you're able to safely and securely surf the Internet at blazing fast speeds. (router hardware not included; Agent will connect up to 2 devices).
Personalized training for one hour so you're able to harness the full power of your devices.
Customized programming of your Harmony TV Remote, giving you the convenience of controlling your entire home theater system with one remote.
Home Theater Consultation A Geek Squad agent will design and lay out a system that captures your home theater dreams, and works within your budget. Our agent can also help you choose products that work best with your design.

Most notably it says a Free house call from their Geek Squad for a TV Calibration.

How rigorous is the ISF Certification requirement? Would a Best Buy Geek Squad person with the ISF Certification be worthwhile to calibrate my TV? Previously on here I asked what a professional calibration would run and was told in the $400-500 range. If I get that for free, I'm all for it!
post #423 of 454
Greetings

Give this article a read first before you go ahead with your plans.

http://www.tlvexp.ca/2013/05/ravings-of-a-mad-man-inside-the-big-box-store/

So now you are faced with the dilemma that the person coming over isn't even ISF certified anymore ... (for what that part was even worth)

You may not get what you pay for ... but you will pay for what you get.

As the article notes ... just because people don't complain about their calibration work does not indicate that the work was done competently or correctly. Even the few BB guys out there that actually do good work warn that you only have a 10% chance of getting someone that knows what they are doing ... and even then, they might be hampered by the tools they have to do the work.

regards
post #424 of 454
I think the general consensus is that while it is possible you can get a calibrator who knows what they are doing from BB, you'd be best off to pay for a professional calibration (non-BB).
post #425 of 454
That's disappointing to read. Almost as it's bad enough that even free is too much to pay.

Then again, I might just do it, since it's free - and then have an indy come in and correct their work.
post #426 of 454
What is sad is that after my BB calibration the BB trainer picked up on my post and contacted me about my concerns. This came as a complete surprise to me that a BB supervisor and ISF trainer would take an interest. We have been emailing back and forth and although it has been fairly interesting and appreciated, he did nothing but defend his calibrator and the calibration itself. I still do not see a difference that would warrant me paying another $250 for my TV o be calibrated.
#1 The calibration was done in just one mode and during the day with the most light being fed into the room
2 the picture is smooth and the contrast is no place close to what I expected
3 he continued to defend the 65 level not once acknowledging that the TV and actually achieve a much better evel.

I have a Sony XBR 65HX950 TV at retail sold for $5999 and the picture is not even close to my sons Sony 55Z model that cost $1600! I am not talking about colors but clarity like blades of grass! I was truly disappointed in the finished product and stated that to the trainer. I also explained to him that I was comparing it to the their display in the showroom with the before and after calibration and I do not see that difference. He told me ypthat it was a 4k feed. How can anyone believe they can achieve that clarity when it is not stated about the signal!
post #427 of 454
BB BS covering their a$$es. Typical.
post #428 of 454
Hey Jake-

I know that I asked in a previous post...post the report so we can take a look.

And what do you mean by the "65 level"?
post #429 of 454
[IMG]

I have included 2 reports. One was my TV and the other was an XBR 85" that the trained calibrated. The 65 I refer to is what I believe they target the grey scale. It is on the report under the color Temps. He also monitors these post because that is how he found out about my issues and contacted me.
post #430 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdoostil View Post

Hey Jake-

I know that I asked in a previous post...post the report so we can take a look.

And what do you mean by the "65 level"?



Only one loaded before trying to see if my report loaded
post #431 of 454


This one is my report and the other is the one that the trainer did. What's not shown is Ann of the adjustments that were made after this report was made.
post #432 of 454
so you really mean D65 then?
post #433 of 454
So what 99% of you guys agree, avoid a BB calibration no matter what!?
post #434 of 454
Greetings

Would you pay full price (half price? 1/3 price) for something knowing up front that you only had a 10% chance of getting a decent to good job done? Because you don't get your money back if you fall in the 90% group either. Calibration Roulette is not a game I would want to play ... consider if your car maintenance was the same ... we would not be lined up to get this service done at all.

regards
post #435 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

so you really mean D65 then?

Yes, D65. I am oh so glad I did not ay for it because I would really be upset. Just a sad attempt at adjusting my set that could be called an epic fail! They can say wat they want about the figures and being a layman I would not know the difference, however the proof is in the viewing. Just nowhere what I've seen elsewhere and what my eyes tell me. After calibrating with his equipment he removed it all and proceeded to make adjustments after adjustments based on what he saw. I know that he adjusted the same things that he adjusted with the equipment so what does that do to the calibration that was done? Sad that so many people pay for this and do not have a clue how much they are being screwed!
post #436 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by jake608 View Post

Yes, D65. I am oh so glad I did not ay for it because I would really be upset. Just a sad attempt at adjusting my set that could be called an epic fail! They can say wat they want about the figures and being a layman I would not know the difference, however the proof is in the viewing. Just nowhere what I've seen elsewhere and what my eyes tell me. After calibrating with his equipment he removed it all and proceeded to make adjustments after adjustments based on what he saw. I know that he adjusted the same things that he adjusted with the equipment so what does that do to the calibration that was done? Sad that so many people pay for this and do not have a clue how much they are being screwed!

There have been a few displays requiring a visual adjustment after meter calibration, the VT30 being a good example. Irritating!
post #437 of 454
Yes, though with well behaved displays like Sony LEDs that does not come into play as much. They don't have CMS adjustment and they have no major color tracking issues.

On some displays with underlying issues, like the Sharp Quattrons, if you do not take full saturation sweeps the calibrator may not realize the problems, which would necessitate making final CMS tweaks by eye. Of course the best solution would be to take more thorough measurements.

In this case the "after" measurements do not reflect the true "after" condition of the display, because the BB calibrator took the after measurements, then made a bunch of tweaks by eye, and called it good.
post #438 of 454
I seen a supposed calibrated tv in best buy.It looked kinda yellow.Looked different then the supposed close too 6500 red colored warm2 setting on the Samsung plasma here.Some screens looked good but some looked washed out like a plasma,even though it was an led.
Edited by Vic12345 - 9/11/13 at 2:41am
post #439 of 454
Greetings

Calibrated TVs are supposed to look yellow in an environment full of blue TVs. That's normal. The color of the environment affects the way we see color and in that environment, it prevents you from seeing what it really looks like.

regards
post #440 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

I seen a supposed calibrated tv in best buy.It looked kinda yellow.Looked different then the supposed close too 6500 red colored warm2 setting on the Samsung plasma here.Some screens looked good but some looked washed out like a plasma,even though it was an led.
This "sticky" thread from the top of this section of the forum, and the links provided in the opening post, will help you on part of your observations:

'How Viewing Environment Conditions Can Corrupt Or Enhance Your Calibration'
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849430

Plasma TVs do not generically "look washed out" as you mistakenly suggest. Any TV can be adjusted incorrectly to look washed out, just as any TV can be incorrectly adjusted to have overemphasized colors, or other types of picture distortion.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
post #441 of 454
Blue tinted sunglasses are available at large. Stand outside on a sunny day wearing them, then take them off and look around. Everything appears a bit yellow aka warm. Do we object to this 'warmth' daily when using our own eyes? No.

Only if we wore blue-tinted sunglasses at every waking hour would we find reality without the blue tint a bit strange. Thankfully we don't. TV's don't need to wear them either.
post #442 of 454
Also, the lighting in BB is very bluish white and bright, which makes a properly calibrated display look yellow in comparison and can make dimmer displays like plasmas look darker/dimmer/duller than they really are. Only the magnolia ht area is more light controlled.
post #443 of 454
Can anyone comment on the graphs that Jake provided? Is there anything bad that someone can point out?

I had a free calibration before and results look similar to jakes. Graphs/charts dont lie right?
post #444 of 454
Pre-Calibration Values:



Post Calibration Values:



Can some point out anything wrong with the post results? This was done on my old retired Panasonic set from 2011.
post #445 of 454
Greetings

Graphs don't lie ... huh? Read.

Regards
post #446 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace_BB6 View Post


Can some point out anything wrong with the post results? This was done on my old retired Panasonic set from 2011.


There is nothing particularly "wrong" but perhaps better results could have been obtained.

You never know what sort of experience and ethics you'll find out there. My advice is to hire a calibrator with a known reputation if possible. The traveling calibrators found on this forum are among that group.

Last year I was called in to check a BB calibration. The client was too nice a guy to call the Geeks and demand his money back. Whoever did the original calibration should have told my client that his display was not working correctly so that the TV could have been replaced at no cost. In the attached report, the "Before" measurements are the result of a $200 calibration. Click on the yellow box on the top to see some notes I made.

BB vs Buzz CalibrationSummaryDetailed_AVS_NoteAdded.pdf 450k .pdf file
post #447 of 454
Sorry I viewed calibrated tv at future shop not bestbuy.The store lighting was fairly warm with noticable red in it,and near the tv it was 3500k bulb.
post #448 of 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

Graphs don't lie ... huh? Read.

Regards

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

There is nothing particularly "wrong" but perhaps better results could have been obtained.

You never know what sort of experience and ethics you'll find out there. My advice is to hire a calibrator with a known reputation if possible. The traveling calibrators found on this forum are among that group.

Last year I was called in to check a BB calibration. The client was too nice a guy to call the Geeks and demand his money back. Whoever did the original calibration should have told my client that his display was not working correctly so that the TV could have been replaced at no cost. In the attached report, the "Before" measurements are the result of a $200 calibration. Click on the yellow box on the top to see some notes I made.

BB vs Buzz CalibrationSummaryDetailed_AVS_NoteAdded.pdf 450k .pdf file

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post

Sorry I viewed calibrated tv at future shop not bestbuy.The store lighting was fairly warm with noticable red in it,and near the tv it was 3500k bulb.


Thanks. Looks like I need to do some reading. And I wasnt stating that graphs dont lie it was meant to be a question. smile.gif Hopefully it didnt come off as me being an idiot. While Im pretty much wearing a dunce cap in this calibration stuff.
post #449 of 454
the reason graphs can lie is they often only show certain measured points (as supposed to many or ideally all/nearly all for the 3D LUT crowd)... so you are only seeing the display's performance at a given point or relatively few points

for example, if you calibrate grayscale with 10-pt controls and measure only 10% increments you might end up with pretty looking graphs but a bad picture with bands of color on a grayscale ramp or 5% grayscale steps... measuring more points can help identify such problems as can looking at visual test patterns like a continuous grayscale ramp (or looking at reference test material you are familiar with)

this is why newer versions of popular calibration software (like CalMAN v5) now lets you measure things like gamut saturation and luminance sweeps at 4-5 points (20% or 25% increments), the colorchecker (24-point and 96-point), and any number of grayscale points you want (using the level editor)

also, Michael's article shows that if you do grayscale first then do CMS and don't bother remeasuring grayscale after doing CMS, you might not see that the grayscale needs further tweaking (and vice versa)


Basically, you need to know what the calibration charts/graphs show and what they don't... what they don't show can be every bit as important as what they do show.
post #450 of 454
George-I thought all plasmas look washed out with all white and mostly white/ bright screens? Mine gets quite washed out,but it's the low budget samsung maybe that's part of it.
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