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The Yamaha RX-V663 thread. HDMI 1.3 upconversion, TrueHD, DTS MA decoding. - Page 2

post #31 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon_templar_32 View Post

I wonder if the 663 avoids two well-known LFE/bass management problems.

(1) LFE hole: Does the crossover apply to the LFE channel as well as to the non-LFE channels? If so, then setting a crossover chucks away the upper part (> crossover point) of the LFE channel. As of yet, I can't get an answer from Yamaha support on this with respect to my HTR-5990.

To read up on the LFE-hole issue, look at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=991439

(2) LFE boost: Does the 663 boost the LFE channel on PCM sent over HDMI? If not, then it is pretty much useless for PCM lossless tracks on HDM (unless your player can boost). According to Yamaha support, my HTR-5990 does not boost.

To read up on the LFE-boost issue, look at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147


Moreover, I also would like to know if the 663 can apply PLIIx to 5.1 True-HD/DTS-MA decoded in the receiver.

Good questions. Regarding LFE, I don't recall issues raised in the 661 thread, fwiw. You should be able to confirm for yourself what the 5990 does with a disc using an actual LFE track sweep...I think Avia has this?
post #32 of 11036
It is really hard to justify spending the extra $s on a Yamaha 3800 or 1800 when you look at this comparison. If you consider what kind of external amp $800-$1000 can buy you it is even harder to justify!

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De...p_items=567572
post #33 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

It is really hard to justify spending the extra $s on a Yamaha 3800 or 1800 when you look at this comparison. If you consider what kind of external amp $800-$1000 can buy you it is even harder to justify!

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De...p_items=567572

Well, the 1800 can be had for under $1000, sometimes $850, and the 3800 for $1200, so the difference is much smaller.
post #34 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

It is really hard to justify spending the extra $s on a Yamaha 3800 or 1800 when you look at this comparison. If you consider what kind of external amp $800-$1000 can buy you it is even harder to justify!

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/compare/De...p_items=567572

I might just make a killer pre/pro for a setup based on active monitors, too.
post #35 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post

Well, the 1800 can be had for under $1000, sometimes $850, and the 3800 for $1200, so the difference is much smaller.

And my guess is the 6160 will be had for $350 online also. Anyway you look at it the 6160 is less than half the price of its bigger brothers. A nice 5 channel 100 watt Rotel amp goes for about $350 used now. Brand new 7 channel Emotiva amps go for less than $500.

$500 gets you a heck of a lot of an external amp. Not so much in a receiver though!
post #36 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

And my guess is the 6160 will be had for $350 online also. Anyway you look at it the 6160 is less than half the price of its bigger brothers. A nice 5 channel 100 watt Rotel amp goes for about $350 used now. Brand new 7 channel Emotiva amps go for less than $500.

$500 gets you a heck of a lot of an external amp. Not so much in a receiver though!

Maybe, but you'd have to use your ear to judge. if something's too good to be true . . .
post #37 of 11036
Interesting note on page 86 of the manual:



I can only assume this means a bitstreamed TrueHD signal (since LPCM is no longer TrueHD). Is this typical? Perhaps its processing is not capable of both decoding and rolling the rears to the sides? And do we infer that it won't expand 5.1 TrueHD to 7.1 via DPL IIx? How 'bout 5.1 LPCM?
post #38 of 11036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

And my guess is the 6160 will be had for $350 online also. Anyway you look at it the 6160 is less than half the price of its bigger brothers. A nice 5 channel 100 watt Rotel amp goes for about $350 used now. Brand new 7 channel Emotiva amps go for less than $500.

$500 gets you a heck of a lot of an external amp. Not so much in a receiver though!

Just curious, what part does the preamp section play in the overall sound quality? For example, if I take the Yamaha V1800 and preout to a 5 channel rotel, will it sound better than the 663 to the same Rotel (assuming the 663 sounds like the 661 we're familiar with)? They both use 192/24 Burr Brown DACs for all channels.
post #39 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Just curious, what part does the preamp section play in the overall sound quality? For example, if I take the Yamaha V1800 and preout to a 5 channel rotel, will it sound better than the 663 to the same Rotel (assuming the 663 sounds like the 661 we're familiar with)? They both use 192/24 Burr Brown DACs for all channels.

Actually the RX-V1800 only has burr brown dac's on the front channels.
post #40 of 11036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemiza View Post

Actually the RX-V1800 only has burr brown dac's on the front channels.

But you knwo what I mean. When people say, "Marantz sounds great with music" does it mean, because of the preamp, or the amp section?
post #41 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

But you knwo what I mean. When people say, "Marantz sounds great with music" does it mean, because of the preamp, or the amp section?

Both the preamp and the power section will play a role in how it will sound, but it's the preamp that caries the role of tone shaping and processing what goes to the power section.

So, in general, the better power section both being of equal watts will probably sound better. And as we know. "sounds better" is as subjective as it gets.


For example on power:
If the Rotel has a lot more watts than the Yamaha it sure would have a lot more headroom and have a cleaner, deeper sounding bass. If it is a tube amp (I have no Idea if Rotel makes one) then it would probably have warmer sounding bass and be thicker in the mids.


Little caveat!
Most of my knowledge of preamps and power amps come from being a bassist and dealing with pro-audio gear. The same basic laws of how things sound *should* still apply here. But who knows in the digital world of HT.
post #42 of 11036
Are these Burr Brown DAC a big deal? I noticed the Denon's below $1000 don't have them, but the Yamaha 661 and 663 both do at a $549 price point.
post #43 of 11036
can anyone comment on the upconversion of yamahas from previous models?
post #44 of 11036
FWIW, my local Yamaha dealer (Rowe Audio) called their yamaha rep., and the rep. confirmed that the 663 does still have the ability to apply ProLogic IIx to 5.1PCM, in order to get 7.1PCM.
post #45 of 11036
WHen it's released, what do you guys think the street price will be? I'm considering the V663, V863 and V1800.
post #46 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg90 View Post

WHen it's released, what do you guys think the street price will be? I'm considering the V663, V863 and V1800.

$360-$400 + Shipping$$ on ebay

$400-$450 from reputable dealers with full Yamaha warranty.

$500-$550 from Best Buy

Why are you considering the V863 or V1800? The V663 and an external amp is definitely the way to go!
post #47 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpgxsvcd View Post

Why are you considering the V863 or V1800? The V663 and an external amp is definitely the way to go!

is the V663 amp really that bad? I'm looking at getting this amp. It would be upgrading my very old pre-hdmi denon avr1601.

Oh, and j&r.com has the pricing already on their site for the pre-order.
post #48 of 11036
Quote:
is the V663 amp really that bad?

One should certainly try it out first. Are you running very difficult speakers?

Quote:
The V663 and an external amp is definitely the way to go!

You had mentioned that there were reports that the 663 amp is better than the 661, do you have a link or any more info? I haven't seen anything about this.
post #49 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

One should certainly try it out first. Are you running very difficult speakers?

me? I'm running Ascend Acoustics, which I hear are very easy to drive.
post #50 of 11036
Went to the Yamaha website and looked at each receivers individual spec sheet. 6160 is rated at 95 watts, and HD Radio is not listed as a feature. HD radio is listed for the 6180. The comparison sheet that showed the 6160 with HD Radio and 105 watts seems to have a typo.
I just entered the HD scene. Received a Sony 60" bravia sxrd yesterday, and a time warner hd cable tuner. Now I need speakers and a audio-video receiver.
I am now leaning toward this receiver, and am wondering if anyone can tell me why I should'nt go ahead pre-order it from J&R.

Thanks to everyone who has given their input regarding their home theater knowledge and experiences. ALL of the sales people and most of the manufacters tech support that I have dealt with seem no more knowledgable than myself, and regarding home theater, I am an idiot.
post #51 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by substance12 View Post

me? I'm running Ascend Acoustics, which I hear are very easy to drive.

So, an easy load probably run as "small" relieving the amps of bass? Then I'd be surprised if you heard a big difference with a new amp.
post #52 of 11036
figures I'd pull the trigger on the 661 and they'd come out with a model that solves all my complaints about the 661.

No OSD on HDMI
No Upconversion of analog sources to HDMI
No Sirus input
No HD Radio Tuner

looks like the new remote might be backlit better than the 661's

Looks like a nice improvement on an already solid design.. I'd say I wish I had waited for this one but I'd rather save 149$ and have my receiver now instead of 30 days from now

I do kinda wish I could get the HD radio tuner...
post #53 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by kulims View Post

plus ...

volume bar overlay
surround back and presence can be active at the same time.

I hadn't seen that. Wouldn't that require 9 amp channels?

Quote:


FWIW, my local Yamaha dealer (Rowe Audio) called their yamaha rep., and the rep. confirmed that the 663 does still have the ability to apply ProLogic IIx to 5.1PCM, in order to get 7.1PCM.

Thanks, good to know. If you get a chance, maybe you could find out if ProLogic IIx is possible with a 5.1 TrueHD bitstream (receiver decoding)?

Quote:


WHen it's released, what do you guys think the street price will be? I'm considering the V663, V863 and V1800.

I think if you call you might get a better deal from JandR than what they list. Talk to Larone, he's a member here and a good guy to deal with.
post #54 of 11036
Has anyone done a comparison between the current yamaha 661 / 861 to the Onkyo 605 or 705?

How are the yamaha's for music?
post #55 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

So, an easy load probably run as "small" relieving the amps of bass? Then I'd be surprised if you heard a big difference with a new amp.

yes, i'm running the LRCs as small (I have a 12" sub). the reason for upgrading for me would be for HDMI and HD audio codecs... both of which my current receiver cannot do. if the receiver can upconvert better than my vizio then that's a plus too. the only thing that worries me is if I need to add a 3rd hdmi device in the future. I'm not sure how seamless the hdmi switches work.
post #56 of 11036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattldm View Post


How are the yamaha's for music?

Not very good. The amp section of the 661 isn't all that great at all. Comparing it to the Denon 788, or HK 247, it's pretty clear those models sound better for music.

My main interest in the 663 is so I can slave the preamp L and R to my NAD 216 amp.
post #57 of 11036
Hey guys I just got the Yamaha 1800 for $862. Would there be any benefits for exchanging and getting the 663? I see that it does OSD over HDMI, that would be nice but it's not that important to me. Would the 663 with an amp really sound better than 1800?
post #58 of 11036
Quote:


How are the yamaha's for music?

My 661 sounded great, especially fed DVD-A or SACD via HDMI.
post #59 of 11036
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Not very good. The amp section of the 661 isn't all that great at all. Comparing it to the Denon 788, or HK 247, it's pretty clear those models sound better for music.

My main interest in the 663 is so I can slave the preamp L and R to my NAD 216 amp.

Thanks.

I have had a Marantz receiver for the last 6 years and I have always loved its musical performance... It was pretty darn good on movies too. I recently purchased an Onkyo 605 (and traded up to the 705) however the Onkyo's dont seem to have the smooth and refined musical sound that my old SR-7000 marantz did. I dont know much about the Yamaha's but I just wondered if they were anymore "musical" than the Onkyo's, guess not?
I wish the new Marantz SR7002 wasn't so darn expensive!
post #60 of 11036
not to get too off topic but is it more difficult for amps to produce good music vs good HT?
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