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Best Projector : $2000 budget

post #1 of 23
2/19/08 at 5:36am
Thread Starter 
Hi there folks!

I've sold most of my HT gear for a move to Indiana. Soon I'll be buying all new stuff. It's been about 6 or 7 years since I've done any projector research, so I wanted to get some input here before I go out and buy.

I have run a Sony 1272 CRT projector for the past 7 years and really enjoyed it. I was considering a solid, used G70, but what are the alternatives? Anything in DLP or LCD that can compete with the G70 CRT? Other CRTs to consider?

Here's some info on what I'd be looking for:

* Ceiling mountable (size not an issue)
* Assume ambient light is controllable, but brighter would be a bonus
* Image quality is #1 priority
* $2000 budget (approx)
* Used equipment OK and almost preferred for price/performance ratio
* Will probably drive with HTPC, but open to recommendations on source pairing
* Will be used 60% for movies, 20% for broadcast sports events, and 20% for console games like XBox.
* Cost of ownership is a factor (one of the reasons I chose CRT last time, as the cost of replacement bulbs for other projectors were an issue).
* Room size is unknown, but assume I'll have at least 20 feet of depth, screen size could be 100 to 124" diagonal. Possibly larger if PJ and space will allow.

Budget above does not include screen. Would like to know what screen you might pair with your projector recommendation (and why).

So, given all of this, what would your short list be, and why?

Thanks!

John
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post #2 of 23
2/19/08 at 8:11am
In my opinion, HC4900, HC5000 - more HC5000, since you said 60% movies, it has an HQV processor. Both are 1080p units, which can future proof this unit a little longer. If you get the HC4900 with a rebate right now, you can save the extra $$ and get yourself a bulb and possibly save some for a screen. Good luck

http://www.projectorcentral.com
http://www.projectorreviews.com

If you do a search on this forum, you will get more info.
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post #3 of 23
2/19/08 at 9:07am
You can get a HC4900 with a PS3 and still be under your budget (after rebate).
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post #4 of 23
2/19/08 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by q3131a View Post

You can get a HC4900 with a PS3 and still be under your budget (after rebate).

Its really funny! I was reading the above posts thinking I wanted to write 4900 and PS3 combo as a great deal under $2K and here you already got it.

The PS3 is a great upconverting DVD player, excellent blu-ray player, very good CD player, excellent SACD player, stores videos and music and jpegs, and some say it even plays games!!!

The 4900 is a very satisfying 1080P pj--I have not seen any other 1080P front pj in action---but for me, the 4900 is an excellent front pj.

I once saw a CRT pj in action--It was poorly setup and not very impressive. I have had people over to see my budget setup (Sanyo Z2 and now the Mits 4900) and everybody has been amazed at the experience of a 100" screen and mind blowing high definition TV and Blu-Ray video.

I strongly recommend a 1080P front pj and a PS3 as a video source. You will be amazed. Only your budget and other room/screen constraints will determine your final choice.

gasdoc
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post #5 of 23
2/19/08 at 10:06pm
I think that you should be very careful. You are going to have to spend more money to get digital performance comparable to a G70. If contrast is very important to you, then you will need something along the lines of RS2. There might be a a higher end DLP that would interest you but the RS2 has +30k CR and is the one that has impressed the CRT'ers the most.

I've owned 6 digitals (LCD and DLP) and 1 CRT (NEC 9PG+) and I think that you may be happier with DLP or the RS2 since you are coming from CRT.
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post #6 of 23
2/20/08 at 7:15am
Thread Starter 
Excellent feedback everyone... thanks!!

I'd love to see more opinions. I am grateful for the advice on the PS3. I honestly would not have considered it as a blue-ray platform. Very interesting, and I doubt my kids would complain. LOL.

Daniel: Thank you for the advice, and this is exactly the kind of information I was hoping to discover. I can get the G70 in nice used condition for under $2K in a lot of places, but I know the G70 won't do 1080P.

I stated budget of $2K, but I am willing to spend more to get the best quality. My budget isn't firm, just a guideline on what the G70 would cost.

I have seen a G70 properly set up, and it was stunning. But to get 1080P, I might have to go to G90, and that would be a huge increase in $$.

So please keep the ideas coming!! I have a lot to learn about digital projectors. Back 6 years ago, screen door (LCD) and Rainbow (DLP) were deal killers for me, but I understand now those issues are getting better with advancements in tech.

One thing this is important to me is a film-like image with some depth (3D). CRT does this very well, and if I move to digital, I'd like to find a PJ that offers some depth and natural feel, more like the CRT image.

Thanks again for the inputs guys! Please continue! Help me build that short list of digital PJs. I'm willing to spend more if it makes sense.

John
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post #7 of 23
2/20/08 at 2:52pm
I think this RS2 and CRT thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989674 be a good and worthwhile read for you. Always take everything with a grain of salt of course.

Some of the reviews in here seem to be very insightful and honest.

Particularly, note the comments of Jim Parys in posts #11 and 13 (he owns RS2 and G90)

Good luck!!!
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post #8 of 23
2/21/08 at 6:17pm
I have not seen any of the newer 1080p LCD's but DLP's have always had the reputation of producing a greater depth of image than other technologies (other than CRT, of course). The Optoma HD803 can be found at just a few $100 over your target price. It offers very little flexibility in mounting, so check carefully before considering it. Optoma's web site has a good calculator to check if the HD803 would work for you:

http://www.optomausa.com/distancecalculator.asp
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post #9 of 23
2/21/08 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by csedaniel View Post

I think this RS2 and CRT thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=989674 be a good and worthwhile read for you. Always take everything with a grain of salt of course.

Some of the reviews in here seem to be very insightful and honest.

Particularly, note the comments of Jim Parys in posts #11 and 13 (he owns RS2 and G90)

Good luck!!!

Though helpful, this link leads to to BIG boys club...not the <$2000 requested by the OP.
That aside, Jim and Kris (and yes, Art) all enjoy top flight home theater.

As for the 2K...can the OP wait another year?
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post #10 of 23
2/21/08 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

Though helpful, this link leads to to BIG boys club...not the <$2000 requested by the OP.

That is why in my first post I warned him to be very careful. Although many, many pj's in this forum perform very well - especially for the money - if he is used to the contrast and black level of CRT, he may be disappointed.

Remember that he can buy a good condition G70 for comparable (even less if he shops) money that will be very difficult for any pj in this forum to match in performance. I'm not saying that it cant be done (I dont know which picture parameters he most values) but he must be very careful or he might be disappointed.
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post #11 of 23
2/22/08 at 6:47am
Very interesting thread.

I'm also looking for a projector in the <2000 range.
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post #12 of 23
2/22/08 at 6:54am
Not sure if you prefer LCD or DLP. Just to add another suggestion to the mix, though.

You could pick up a used Panasonic ae1000u 1080p LCD and a PS3 with your budget. I see you intend to ceiling mount, so lens shift isn't a huge deal for you, but I've found the Panny to be very versatile. Might just want to look at it.
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post #13 of 23
2/22/08 at 7:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMRA View Post

As for the 2K...can the OP wait another year?

Yes. My house is on the market now and probably won't be sold for several months. I have some time to make this decision, so new projectors now might come down in price somewhat.

I've been reading up on the Sony VW60, and that looks intriguing. Maybe in 4 or 5 months these could be had very affordably.

I could see spending as much as $3500 for a great PJ. Screen door and rainbow really annoy me. G70 is very nice and as mentioned very affordable right now, but these pigs weigh 180 pounds. Swapping out or upgrading is difficult, so purchasing a G70 is really a multi-year commitment.

I think it might be wise to find fellow HT enthusiasts in my area who own digital PJs on my list, and see if I can come by for a demo.

Anyone near Fort Wayne, Indiana?

Thanks so much for the many helpful replies!!

John
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post #14 of 23
2/22/08 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by csedaniel View Post

I think that you should be very careful. You are going to have to spend more money to get digital performance comparable to a G70. If contrast is very important to you, then you will need something along the lines of RS2. There might be a a higher end DLP that would interest you but the RS2 has +30k CR and is the one that has impressed the CRT'ers the most.

I've owned 6 digitals (LCD and DLP) and 1 CRT (NEC 9PG+) and I think that you may be happier with DLP or the RS2 since you are coming from CRT.


Yeah, I agree. I'd recommend demo'ing the Sharp 12000mkII, it basically has the exact same picture as the $10K 1080p version, with a few less pixels. If you don't sit too close you'll never know the difference...and its cheap now (if you can find one, look on videogon).
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post #15 of 23
2/22/08 at 8:27pm
Sharp 12000mkII is an excellent pj......and at the prices that it has sold in the last 6 months or so make it the top one or two value in pj's at ANY price level.
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post #16 of 23
2/22/08 at 10:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG316 View Post

Yes. My house is on the market now and probably won't be sold for several months. I have some time to make this decision, so new projectors now might come down in price somewhat.

I've been reading up on the Sony VW60, and that looks intriguing. Maybe in 4 or 5 months these could be had very affordably.

I could see spending as much as $3500 for a great PJ. Screen door and rainbow really annoy me. G70 is very nice and as mentioned very affordable right now, but these pigs weigh 180 pounds. Swapping out or upgrading is difficult, so purchasing a G70 is really a multi-year commitment.

I think it might be wise to find fellow HT enthusiasts in my area who own digital PJs on my list, and see if I can come by for a demo.

Anyone near Fort Wayne, Indiana?

Thanks so much for the many helpful replies!!

John

John, here's my direction. PJs like this and Epson's new UB top my look-see list:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/benq_w5000.htm

Naturally, if one "pulls the trigger" now, you are stuck with the 'new product' rather than market adjusted price. We may well see entry level 1080p at the $1000 level this time next year, which will impact pricing on these units accordingly. Both of these could be under 2K in a year.
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post #17 of 23
2/26/08 at 9:03am
If you want my honest opinion, you aren't going to match CRT performance with a Digital, be it a 720p or 1080p unit at this time, without dropping more than a few thousand dollars. The problem is you are coming from a good quality CRT PJ, so you are used to a dimmer image but you are also used to black being black. On modern digitals black is black....when there is enough brightness on screen..but when things are dim, when you have candle or torch-lit characters, when you have dark scenes with not alot of "bright" sources of light, Digitals start to stumble where CRT's wont.

LCD and DLP technology can't block all its light, the lamps are always on, so thats one of those things you have to remember...what you have to decide is if its worth it to you to swap the high-maintenance and hassle of a CRT PJ for a smaller, more compact Digital with its own set of problems.

I'm on my 3rd...no..4th digital PJ, and I have a 65" RPTV...CRT. My latest PJ (Marantz 4001, aka the Sharp Z3000) does a very, very good job with black levels...but there are differences between it and a CRT image, something you may have to get used to. I dont mind, I trade size and convenience over ever wanting to own a CRT FP.....but you really should see them in action before you commit thousands.

Suggest you try, try, try before you buy.......mostly because of your history with CRT PJ's.
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post #18 of 23
2/26/08 at 5:48pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks all for the insightful feedback!

It's interesting how far the digitals have come, as I'm starting to look at them now more seriously and have auditioned a couple.

But thanks to your responses, I realize I'm not going to match a G70 at this price point, but it might still be worth taking the dive. I have a few months to decide.

Honestly, I'm tempted to spend more $$ for a VW60 or maybe RS-1 (but I haven't seen either yet).

Time is on my side here I think. The longer I wait, the cheaper these digitals seem to get. Dropping price by the month it would seem! So, 6 months from now I wonder if I could nab a VW60 for $2500.

In any event, thanks so much for helping me to get started! I've built a list of PJ's I'd like to look at. And I might just pick up one of those 4900's just to tide me over for a while. That looks like a bang per buck winner if I ever saw one.

John
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post #19 of 23
2/26/08 at 10:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG316 View Post


In any event, thanks so much for helping me to get started! I've built a list of PJ's I'd like to look at. And I might just pick up one of those 4900's just to tide me over for a while. That looks like a bang per buck winner if I ever saw one.

John

I just hooked up my 4900 last night, and (after some minor calibration and tweaking) I am very, very happy. I was worried about the blacks as some people felt the 4900 was lacking in that department, but I think it is more than adequate. For $1399 you cannot go wrong, and if you have a Blu-Ray player the 4900 looks amazing...
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post #20 of 23
2/27/08 at 4:00pm
I just got my vw40 yesterday. I've only got a couple hours on it so far but I'm pretty happy with it. I have seen a handful of other projectors myself including the vw60, hd80, other entry level sony's, and some entry level mits. This is definitely better than the optoma hd80, but not quite as nice as the vw60. I'd do it again. Its definitely not an extremely bright projector, but mine is in a dedicated theater room.
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post #21 of 23
2/28/08 at 8:15pm
I'm debating between the Z2000, HC4900, and the Epson 1080. Kind of leaning towards the Z2000. I have a Z5 and have had a Z2 before that and had no problems with either. Too bad I can't compare the 3 side by side.
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post #22 of 23
2/29/08 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by imuesmail View Post

I
The 4900 is a very satisfying 1080P pj--I have not seen any other 1080P front pj in action---but for me, the 4900 is an excellent front pj.

I once saw a CRT pj in action--It was poorly setup and not very impressive. I have had people over to see my budget setup (Sanyo Z2 and now the Mits 4900) and everybody has been amazed at the experience of a 100" screen and mind blowing high definition TV and Blu-Ray video.

It must have been very poorly set up or was an uber low end 7" machine. I wanted to go digital to do a CIH set up, so I checked out affordable digitals. My next door neighbor has a HC5000 and I have an 8" LC CRT PJ that I bought 1.5 years ago (upgrading from another CRT PJ) for $2300. The picture on the HC5000 is overall so far inferior to mine that I could not swap out for the HC5000. The cheapest digi PJ I've seen that is equal to my $2300 investment is a new RS2.
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post #23 of 23
2/29/08 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG316 View Post

I have run a Sony 1272 CRT projector for the past 7 years and really enjoyed it. I was considering a solid, used G70, but what are the alternatives? Anything in DLP or LCD that can compete with the G70 CRT? Other CRTs to consider?

I have a Barco Cine 8 Onyx. This is very close in performance to the G70 (I think a hair better, but they are really close). I've checked out every new digi in your price range because I wanted to do a CIH set up. None of them are near up to snuff compared to the G70. The RS1 has its problems, but they are close to good enough. They are starting to show up used for just of $3000. The RS2 is roughly equivalent, but much more money.

The other nice thing about the G70 is that it is going to just keep working, and if it does not, you get it repaired for about $200. Read all the digi problem stories here and try to imagine how many will be running in 10 years.

I really wanted a digital for a CIH set up, but it looks like I'll be waiting a little longer. See my similar thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=13221461
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