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Mr. Pink's Dog Diner Theater (Tips Welcome)

post #1 of 2184
Thread Starter 
***BUILD INDEX***

1. Well, it all started here.

2. The first time BIG commented on my space. A true honor...lol.

CD
post #2 of 2184
Thread Starter 
I think I'll go with this as the BEFORE pic



CD
post #3 of 2184
You gave the floor dimensions, but what I think is going to be the issue/question is how tall will your walls be, and how far is it from the floor to the apex of the of roof? General DIY construction questions may very well play a part in your project, is noise transmission in/out a concern? HVAC may be affected significantly by using the space with equipment in it that generates heat. Where does your equipment go? A diagram of the layout of the space and the vertical distances floor to roof slope are needed. All you have right now is a pic of a roofline, and it's not much to go on. More details please.
post #4 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

You gave the floor dimensions, but what I think is going to be the issue/question is how tall will your walls be, and how far is it from the floor to the apex of the of roof? General DIY construction questions may very well play a part in your project, is noise transmission in/out a concern? HVAC may be affected significantly by using the space with equipment in it that generates heat. Where does your equipment go? A diagram of the layout of the space and the vertical distances floor to roof slope are needed. All you have right now is a pic of a roofline, and it's not much to go on. More details please.

Fair enough. I know pix are bare right now, but I thought for the insulation question it might be sufficient to start. I had some other pix of the room, but lost them recently...so I'll snap some more and post, in hope you guys can help me with my start.

CD
post #5 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by usualsuspects View Post

You gave the floor dimensions, but what I think is going to be the issue/question is how tall will your walls be, and how far is it from the floor to the apex of the of roof? General DIY construction questions may very well play a part in your project, is noise transmission in/out a concern? HVAC may be affected significantly by using the space with equipment in it that generates heat. Where does your equipment go? A diagram of the layout of the space and the vertical distances floor to roof slope are needed. All you have right now is a pic of a roofline, and it's not much to go on. More details please.

OK, here are a couple of more pix





more roofline (btw, that's not where the screen is going)

Floor to apex is just shy of 10'...9'10", and the current cross is about 8'8"



the joists

So I'm trying to get an idea, from anyone who's tackled it, about the best way to insulate this space before drywall...and what might be a good finished height for my room; it's approx. 12' wide and the finished space for the HT will be about 18' long.





Kneewalls are just shy of 5'...4'11". BTW, this is what did me in for my first attempt



Thanks for any help,
CD
post #6 of 2184
If that was my space:

Lower the screen and mount the center speaker over the top.

From a seated position it looks like the screen bottom edge will be at eye level. Try to get the eyes up to 1/3 from the bottom of the screen. That give you a little more leeway on screen size.

Also the corners won't be pinched by the ceiling and there will be less reflection off the ceiling which will improve contrast.

If you are planning two rows of seating having the center elevated will make it easier to hear the dialog in the back row where it won't be blocked by the front row.

Also raise the sides speakers even with the sides of the screen as much as possible.
post #7 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

If that was my space:

Lower the screen and mount the center speaker over the top.

From a seated position it looks like the screen bottom edge will be at eye level. Try to get the eyes up to 1/3 from the bottom of the screen. That give you a little more leeway on screen size.

Also the corners won't be pinched by the ceiling and there will be less reflection off the ceiling which will improve contrast.

If you are planning two rows of seating having the center elevated will make it easier to hear the dialog in the back row where it won't be blocked by the front row.

Also raise the sides speakers even with the sides of the screen as much as possible.

Thanks BM; that pic was actually just to show what sunk my first attempt at construction...in other words, I nailed up a piece of TWH, set up the speakers, ps3 and pj, and never got any work done. The real screen will definitely come down some, because once the ceiling joists are rocked I won't be able to go that high anyway. And your advice about not taking the corners right to the ceiling is well taken.

My center dilemma is the same as many I'm sure: below screen is too low, I'm afraid above screen will be too high. And I am hoping to build a stage or proscenium that will raise the fronts even with the screen.

Man, I can't wait to get to that fun stuff

CD
post #8 of 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

My center dilemma is the same as many I'm sure: below screen is too low, I'm afraid above screen will be too high. And I am hoping to build a stage or proscenium that will raise the fronts even with the screen.

Man, I can't wait to get to that fun stuff

CD

Have you thought about a DIY AT screen putting the center speaker right behind the middle of the screen?

MY HT2.0 is going to go that route.
post #9 of 2184
The insulation of the room should be pretty straight forward. Fiberglass batts stapled into the roof rafter bays, and then you have two options for the space begining at the kneewalls. You can either inslulate the knee walls themselves, which is the easier option, or you can continue the insulation in the rafters all the way down to the floor. While it is more time consuming, I would recommend doing it that way because your HVAC ductwork would then be inside the insulated envelope and be more energy efficient. Use kraft faced batts and make sure you where long sleeves and a respirator.
post #10 of 2184
My room looks just like yours. I just finished putting my ceiling joist's up this weekend. Here is a picture, and if I can help you in any way, just let me know

Thanks
LL
post #11 of 2184
...i would not finish that like a bedroom...you obviously like your sounds; and i bet you like them loud; and all that in drywall will make that room hot accousticly and you will hate it.

Here's what i would do:
Start a new post titled ' Question on attic theater acoustic treatments' or something like that....show the photos, and get some advice on how to get the sound right from the experts...it'll save you alot of work and money...

dont ask me how i know...
post #12 of 2184
also...
see the thread "show us your screenwalls" ; see post #41....contact that guy and ask him...
thats what i would do....
good luck! You can do it ! just plan it out...
post #13 of 2184
My room is very similiar. It is 20 ft. wide with a 4'6'' knee wall. 35 ft. long. Try to keep you height as high as possible. Mine is 8'6'' and the flat part of the ceiling is 13 ft.

I handled the window in my room by getting a company that does black out window for autos and had him completely black out my window. I added electrical tape around the edges and then ordered acoustical panels for the complete screen wall which also covered the window.

I also made acoustical panels for my first reflection points with OC 703 and GOM. The acoustics in my room are pretty good and I feel the room shape and dimensions help vs. having parrallel walls and floor ceilings.
post #14 of 2184
When insulating the roof I believe you need to use baffles to hold insulation away from the sheathing to allow air flow.



Then you can use standard kraft paper faced insulation for the thicknes of the roofing timbers.

Cheers,
Mark
post #15 of 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

When insulating the roof I believe you need to use baffles to hold insulation away from the sheathing to allow air flow.



Then you can use standard kraft paper faced insulation for the thicknes of the roofing timbers.

Cheers,
Mark

Do you only need the baffles where the vents are located in the sofit?
post #16 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dago52 View Post

My room looks just like yours. I just finished putting my ceiling joist's up this weekend. Here is a picture, and if I can help you in any way, just let me know

Thanks

Thanks Dago. You know what they say: misery loves company.

CD
post #17 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Have you thought about a DIY AT screen putting the center speaker right behind the middle of the screen?

MY HT2.0 is going to go that route.

I have BM. Right now I have a VPL-AW15, which is not exactly a light-canon, so I'm not sure I could get away with an AT screen. But I'm definitely going to leave room for this option (space behind the screen wall) in case I want to go that route in the future.

CD
post #18 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioEric View Post

also...
see the thread "show us your screenwalls" ; see post #41....contact that guy and ask him...
thats what i would do....
good luck! You can do it ! just plan it out...

Oh yeah, I've seen that room before! You're right, it's a great finish to an "A" shape...and I think I even PM'ed J-Dubb once upon a time. His room is much wider than mine (17.5' v. 12'), which helps a lot with the A shape; he was able to get good "width" across his ceiling without coming down too low. I'll have more of a compromise to make because of my room size.

I don't want a little sliver of a ceiling, but I don't want to feel like the room is caving in on me either. The higher it is I think the better the room looks, but the HVAC guys have already told me a higher ceiling will mean a much harder time heating and cooling the space; especially considering it's an attic. I'm also concerned about the acoustics, although I don't know if the same mathematics apply to this shape. As always, any suggestions or opinions are welcome.

Dago, your room looks like a good compromise. How wide are you and what is your "cross-beam" height?

CD
post #19 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

When insulating the roof I believe you need to use baffles to hold insulation away from the sheathing to allow air flow.



Then you can use standard kraft paper faced insulation for the thicknes of the roofing timbers.

Cheers,
Mark

Yeah, this is what tripped me up from just rushing right in the first time; I read all this stuff about needing to ventilate, so you don't trap moisture in your ceiling and rot all the lumber...and about how if you face the reflective paper the wrong way, or use the wrong insulation type, you can melt the shingles on the outside roof.

As I've said, I don't know jack about home DIY, so this stuff I read scared me to death and that's why I'm trying to elicit any advice that I can. So where do these baffles go? Is it at the bottom of the "joist-channel", like where the insulation would come down to the knee-wall?

Thanks,
CD
post #20 of 2184
Here is a VERY basic tutorial.....but may help a LITTLE

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35720160

Not an area I' knowledgable on just seen it in past.

Cheers,
Mark
post #21 of 2184
Wow!! I didn't realize there was a large group of Attic/Bonus room Theaters going on currently. It is good to know. I apologize if I am hi-jacking this thread. It is just there are several of you in this same "unique" style room and looks to be a good "group" thread. I think I will start an "Attic/Bonus Room" thread a little later so we all can enter all our pics and thoughts. Maybe we can all pick each others brains and throw out ideas. I am sure that I will be bugging you guys. I have attached a couple photos of the before framing set up of my space (kind of messy). Thanks for letting me add some comments.

OK - Hi-jack is over. Thanks and I look forward to seeing all of your rooms as we all continue to move along.
LL
LL
post #22 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

Here is a VERY basic tutorial.....but may help a LITTLE

http://www.easy2diy.com/cm/easy/diy_...ge_id=35720160

Not an area I' knowledgable on just seen it in past.

Cheers,
Mark

Thanks Mark; every little bit helps.

CD
post #23 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Theater Joe View Post

Wow!! I didn't realize there was a large group of Attic/Bonus room Theaters going on currently. It is good to know. I apologize if I am hi-jacking this thread. It is just there are several of you in this same "unique" style room and looks to be a good "group" thread. I think I will start an "Attic/Bonus Room" thread a little later so we all can enter all our pics and thoughts. Maybe we can all pick each others brains and throw out ideas. I am sure that I will be bugging you guys. I have attached a couple photos of the before framing set up of my space (kind of messy). Thanks for letting me add some comments.

OK - Hi-jack is over. Thanks and I look forward to seeing all of your rooms as we all continue to move along.

Joe, how wide is your room? You look to have pretty good width as well; I think I'm the "coziest" at 12' x 18'.

CD
post #24 of 2184
Quote:


Joe, how wide is your room? You look to have pretty good width as well; I think I'm the "coziest" at 12' x 18'.

CD

CD - My room is currently 20' wide, but once I frame out the Theater width I will be in the 14'-15' range. I dont want to leave the sidewalls at ony 4' or so. My length is approx 27' and the open area behind the theater is 12' 6" X 17'. I am not sure how that is going to end up yet...probably the reason for the hold up. I am sure you know what I mean...Cant make a final decision on what to do with the Bar area space and if I want to leave it open or make the Theater area dedicated.
post #25 of 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Oh yeah, I've seen that room before! You're right, it's a great finish to an "A" shape...and I think I even PM'ed J-Dubb once upon a time. His room is much wider than mine (17.5' v. 12'), which helps a lot with the A shape; he was able to get good "width" across his ceiling without coming down too low. I'll have more of a compromise to make because of my room size.

I don't want a little sliver of a ceiling, but I don't want to feel like the room is caving in on me either. The higher it is I think the better the room looks, but the HVAC guys have already told me a higher ceiling will mean a much harder time heating and cooling the space; especially considering it's an attic. I'm also concerned about the acoustics, although I don't know if the same mathematics apply to this shape. As always, any suggestions or opinions are welcome.

Dago, your room looks like a good compromise. How wide are you and what is your "cross-beam" height?

CD

My room is 15Wx21Lx9H. My floor joices are 2x12 on 12" center and the ceiling joices are approximatley 9' wide on 16" center. I decided to make the kneewalls 5' which is code for my area. Anytime I do something to my house, I think of resell. By staying in code, I could count this room as a fifth bedroom by just adding a closet. I was going to put a full blown stage with a riser, but now I am leaning more toward a simple, but comfortable movie watching and game playing room. I may decide to implement a small stage, but nothing right now is definitive. I am also putting a full bathroom next to the bonus room. When I built my house 2 years ago, I had the builder frame the flooring, install a/c line, stub the plumbing, and add an electrical tap. So, for me it is pretty much plug and play. The builder wanted $14,000 just to frame the room and $52,000 to finish it. I have about $1,200.00 in it as we speak, and I have all the wood to finish framing the bonus room and bathroom.
post #26 of 2184
Thread Starter 
OK, like everyone else, I've been sick for a spell, and on top of all that work has been busier than he!! I've made a decision that unfortunately, I'm probably realistically looking at a Fall completion. The plus side is I do get a little bit of breathing room on how fast I need to try and tackle the room, but I don't want to fall into the old procrastination trap. So I want to at least start on one or two of the preliminary, boring things.

Here are my contenders: I need to insulate; I've considered getting an estimate on having someone do it...or is that just an idiotic waste of money? I need HVAC work. The estimates I've gotten so far deal with 2 different scenarios...either just the duct work and the area would run off of the 2nd floor's controller, or creating a new, 3rd zone. Obviously a zone to itself would be best, but also bigger $$$. Any thoughts?

And I want to run a dedicated circuit up to the HT level. Main box is in the garage, HT walk-up attic is 2 floors up. I am also wondering if I shouldn't bolster up my subfloor? Right now it looks like I am a single layer of MDF or particleboard over my floor joists; should I be looking to do a second layer with GG?

So these are the projects I see needing to be done (along with making sure all my HT A/V cabling is in place), before I can start "finishing" the room by rocking, mudding, painting, placing, decorating, etc. Should they go in any particular order? Again, I'm a self-professed DIY dummy, so I'm wondering like should HVAC come before insulation, or the other way around? Do I need to bolster the subfloor and should I do that before anything? And when do I address the riser again, before or after drywall?

Thanks again guys,
CD
post #27 of 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Yeah, this is what tripped me up from just rushing right in the first time; I read all this stuff about needing to ventilate, so you don't trap moisture in your ceiling and rot all the lumber...and about how if you face the reflective paper the wrong way, or use the wrong insulation type, you can melt the shingles on the outside roof.

As I've said, I don't know jack about home DIY, so this stuff I read scared me to death and that's why I'm trying to elicit any advice that I can. So where do these baffles go? Is it at the bottom of the "joist-channel", like where the insulation would come down to the knee-wall?

Thanks,
CD

Install the baffles in every joist cavity the entire length of the joist. (I have seen some installers leave a 6-10" gap in between each baffle to save a little money and use fewer baffles.) Some people think the baffle is there to allow for ventilation for attic space, but in your type of application where you are filling the ceiling joists with insulation it is used to keep condensation and moisture from being trapped between the fiberglass batts and the roof decking. Insulating the roof would be quite easy, and you do not need to spend the extra money that an installer would charge you.

First step would be to staple install the baffles in your joist space. Some have self adhesive tape that you just peel and stick, others you staple into place. Start at the top of the ridge and work your way down. If you are only insulating to the knee wall, you only need to bring the baffles that far down. If you intend to insulate all the way to the exterior wall, then take the baffles all the way down to the base.

Next, push the batt insulation up into place, cut to fit with an utility knife, and staple the kraft paper face to the joists (paper faces the inside of the room and you would drywall against it.

It really is that easy. Just make sure you where long sleeves, gloves, a dust mask and eye protection because you don't want the fiberglass particles getting in your nose or eyes or on you because they irritate like all get out.

As for the HVAC, a zone to the HT would definitely make the space more comfortable and help control your heating and cooling costs since you could install a programable t-stat and ensure it is not runing to the room when it is not in use, but you need to weigh the cost vs. benefit. If the budget allows, I personally would do it, but if the budget is tight, you will be just fine without the separate zone.

I think a dedicated circuit is a must for a theater room. A good electrician can fish a main line down through the rest of the house with little or no damage to the finished areas of the house.

The floors wouldn't be MDF. Probably OSB which is a structural sheathing. Ideally it should be a minimum 3/4" for a floor, so if it is less than that, definitely add another layer. If keeping sound out of the rest of the house, and keeping outside sound out of the theater are your concern, then definitely add another layer of OSB with Green Glue between the layers.

I would get any HVAC and or electrical work done first, then tackle the insulation and subfloor, then move on to drywall, etc. If you want the riser isolated from the wall, install it after the drywall is complete.
post #28 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funston View Post

Install the baffles in every joist cavity the entire length of the joist. (I have seen some installers leave a 6-10" gap in between each baffle to save a little money and use fewer baffles.) Some people think the baffle is there to allow for ventilation for attic space, but in your type of application where you are filling the ceiling joists with insulation it is used to keep condensation and moisture from being trapped between the fiberglass batts and the roof decking. Insulating the roof would be quite easy, and you do not need to spend the extra money that an installer would charge you.

First step would be to staple install the baffles in your joist space. Some have self adhesive tape that you just peel and stick, others you staple into place. Start at the top of the ridge and work your way down. If you are only insulating to the knee wall, you only need to bring the baffles that far down. If you intend to insulate all the way to the exterior wall, then take the baffles all the way down to the base.

Next, push the batt insulation up into place, cut to fit with an utility knife, and staple the kraft paper face to the joists (paper faces the inside of the room and you would drywall against it.

It really is that easy. Just make sure you where long sleeves, gloves, a dust mask and eye protection because you don't want the fiberglass particles getting in your nose or eyes or on you because they irritate like all get out.

As for the HVAC, a zone to the HT would definitely make the space more comfortable and help control your heating and cooling costs since you could install a programable t-stat and ensure it is not runing to the room when it is not in use, but you need to weigh the cost vs. benefit. If the budget allows, I personally would do it, but if the budget is tight, you will be just fine without the separate zone.

I think a dedicated circuit is a must for a theater room. A good electrician can fish a main line down through the rest of the house with little or no damage to the finished areas of the house.

The floors wouldn't be MDF. Probably OSB which is a structural sheathing. Ideally it should be a minimum 3/4" for a floor, so if it is less than that, definitely add another layer. If keeping sound out of the rest of the house, and keeping outside sound out of the theater are your concern, then definitely add another layer of OSB with Green Glue between the layers.

I would get any HVAC and or electrical work done first, then tackle the insulation and subfloor, then move on to drywall, etc. If you want the riser isolated from the wall, install it after the drywall is complete.

Wow, truly idiot-proof. Thanks Chris. Based on your great step-by-step, I feel comfortable tackling the insulation myself. Thanks also for the other advice. I need some other miscellaneous cabling and electrical work around the house, so I think I'll get an estimate for the whole shebang. Then bite the bullet on the HVAC, tackle the insulation, and maybe another layer of subfloor. Then I get to finally have some "fun"! I'll post pics and ask more dumb questions along the way.

CD
post #29 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

OK, like everyone else, I've been sick for a spell, and on top of all that work has been busier than he!! I've made a decision that unfortunately, I'm probably realistically looking at a Fall completion. The plus side is I do get a little bit of breathing room on how fast I need to try and tackle the room, but I don't want to fall into the old procrastination trap. So I want to at least start on one or two of the preliminary, boring things.

Here are my contenders: I need to insulate; I've considered getting an estimate on having someone do it...or is that just an idiotic waste of money? I need HVAC work. The estimates I've gotten so far deal with 2 different scenarios...either just the duct work and the area would run off of the 2nd floor's controller, or creating a new, 3rd zone. Obviously a zone to itself would be best, but also bigger $$$. Any thoughts?

And I want to run a dedicated circuit up to the HT level. Main box is in the garage, HT walk-up attic is 2 floors up. I am also wondering if I shouldn't bolster up my subfloor? Right now it looks like I am a single layer of MDF or particleboard over my floor joists; should I be looking to do a second layer with GG?

So these are the projects I see needing to be done (along with making sure all my HT A/V cabling is in place), before I can start "finishing" the room by rocking, mudding, painting, placing, decorating, etc. Should they go in any particular order? Again, I'm a self-professed DIY dummy, so I'm wondering like should HVAC come before insulation, or the other way around? Do I need to bolster the subfloor and should I do that before anything? And when do I address the riser again, before or after drywall?

Thanks again guys,
CD

Guys, I'm finally getting around to starting some of these projects (nothing like working on an Attic HT in the middle of a Mid-Atlantic Summer) and I'm getting ready to have an electrical contractor come out and give me an estimate on running a new, dedicated circuit up there.

I do have this one, little, pathetic outlet, and I haven't even tested to see what circuit its on, so god only knows. Then I was wondering, should I save myself the trouble and possible equitable or higher cost, and just get a kick-ass power conditioner or even PS Audio Premiere Power Conditioner (which of course regenerates power).

A good conditioner is maybe $500 and up, with the PS Audio unit being $2k and under. What's this circuit run likely to cost me?



CD
post #30 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Guys I'll call and get some actual quotes tomorrow, but I'm chomping at the bit about my likely costs for drywalling my attic space. I know there are a lot of contractors on here; can anyone give me a ballpark on the going per/sheet price I should expect for hanging, mudding, finishing in the Mid-Atlantic or DelMarVa area?

Also, I've got to get the rock up to a 3rd-floor attic; what's the best way to accomplish this? Someone suggested a commercial place (as opposed to HD or Lowes) can remove a window and lift it up? That gonna cost me much extra, or is it pretty common in the "contractor" world, so the cost is negligible?

Thanks for any help,

CD
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