Mr. Pink's Dog Diner Theater (Tips Welcome) - Page 2

OK guys; I know my thread doesn't get much play. Maybe it's because of the stupid name, maybe it's because of the lack of pictures. More than likely it's because I'm stuck in the "stupid questions" phase, and need to get to the "get my a$$ into gear" phase. Well, hopefully I'm there; got Loganed without actually getting Tom involved.

I'm a gear guy, and have lots of vision...but no carpentry skills, so I'm really going to need some AVS help. OK, I'm lining up contractors for electric, HVAC, even the drywalling (hanging head in shame ), but I'm going to try and do what I feel I'm capable of.

As it turns out, this is going to be the screen wall



I think one of the things that's been holding me up is I was never really comfortable with the orientation of the room; it's walk-up attic space, and the HT portion was to be 18' x 12' with one hitch: the stairway was between the seating area and the screen wall. (In this picture, the stairs are right below the bottom of the frame)



This orientation allowed a longer room, and a proposed 2 rows of seating, but my wife was always afraid a guest might have too much to drink and fall down the stairs in the dark (me, I was more practical; I wasn't sure it would meet code). So I've decided to flip the room; it'll still be 18' x 12', but now the 6', and the stairs, will be behind 1 row of chairs. We're OK with things being a little cozier, and it offers certain other advantages like putting the equipment in the same place, but now it's behind us instead of under the screen, etc. (Have I made a terrible compromise?)

So now that the screen wall will be the one of the pic with the blue tape (I know, it's not going to be that big), I still have that furnace duct to deal with. Before I was going to "riser" over it...now I'll "stage" over it. I'm lucky...it's exactly 10" tall, so 2x10s are in order. I'm going to build the "stage box" in front of it, and then have the plywood tops extend over the 15" of duct to the front of the screen wall.

Question 1: any suggestions of how big to make the stage? Is there a general rule of thumb, in relation to room size, screen size, etc...and I want to make it deep enough that the piece of plywood attached to the studs is strong enough to "free float" over that last 15" of duct (did that make sense?)

Question 2: should I be looking to build this stage before or after drywalling that screen wall?

Thanks guys. Hopefully more questions and more progress to come,

CD

OK, so I also need to get some HVAC quotes pdq. I've already determined I'm just not going to have a choice but to go the more expensive route and get a 3rd zone installed for the HT. I can't gurantee that the guys doing the installation will have much experience, if any, in considerations for a theater, so what should I have them look out for? Here is a pic of my "furnace", if that helps any



Where should I be looking for them to place the vents and returns, to have the least "interference" with the theater? Do I need to do some kind of insulation around the furnace, before the drywall, to control sound, etc.?

CD

Thanks Dwight. Yeah, like I said...I'm tired of planning and worrying; time to get the damn thing done. I wish I had more DIY skills, so I could do things myself. That would both increase pride, and decrease cost, but what are ya gonna do? I was supposed to have it finished for last Fall; made the rookie mistake of setting up equipment and watching movies. Then Winter was on me, and we retreated to a small bedroom; got too cozy there to get motivated to finish the proper room. So I packed everything up in order to force myself to get to work, but Spring and Summer are busy times for me at work, not to mention the attic gets to be incredibly hot in the middle of a Mid-Atlantic Summer...and on and on, blah, blah, blah. But I'm not going to let another season pass me by.

Please AVSers, I'm in your hands.

CD

I guess I can just answer this one myself: after taking a good look, I guess practicality dictates that I make the combined depth of the duct and the "stage box" in front of it 4'; that way it's a single piece of plywood, without having to cut it. Sound about right? And did I see someone say minimum thickness should be 5/8"? What's the reasoning behind that?

Thanks,
CD

Had the drywall guy out today; good news/bad news. Good news is the guy came recommended by a big company, as a "good guy" they recently had to layoff (damn economy), and he seems to know what he's doing, is willing to take pride in his work, and is willing to work cheap and at a fair price. Bad news is with turning my room around, the way I decided to, I didn't notice the offset of this window



I can handle this two ways: the guy said, of course, I could just "pad" the studs and we can lay right over this window (the offset is about 3/8"), or...the wife asked me why we couldn't just do a false wall (of course she didn't really know what she was talking about, or call it that...she said a half-wall thingee over the window, or something, but I filled in the blanks for her).

Interesting enough, when I went back to look at some pix I've collected from previous threads, that might help me when I finally got around to construction, I found this



So here's my dumb question (c'mon, there's always one): what exactly is the reason for a false wall? I'm sure one is if you're going AT, and need to get to cables, speakers, equipment, etc. back there, but my set-up won't be that way. My only concern about going this route is the length it takes off the room.

The room will 18', but I only have about 12' from screen to the seating. I'd love to go bigger, but the room is shaping up to allow like a 96" screen. At about ~85" wide, observing a 1.8 rule (for now, I have the Sony VPL-AW15; it's 720p and has a good bit of SDE, so I'm erring on the side of caution at 1.8. I know once I upgrade to 1080p, I can get away with more like 1.5), I'm cutting it kind of tight as it is. A false wall is gonna cost me, what 6" at least? I like the look, and maybe that is one of the other reasons for a false wall...that recessed look?...but I'm not sure which way to go on this one.

Can you guys offer up some thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks,
CD

OK, I'll spare you questions surrounding the same 2 pictures, because no one responds anyway. My room is 18x12; because of the A-roofing, I'm not sure the same rules about room dimensions apply. Right now my cross-braces are around 8'8" and that would give me a finished ceiling height around 8'7". Should I bring them down to make for an 8' ceiling or am I fine where I am?



Thanks,

CD

I swear I should have some progress and updated pics soon (electrician coming 9/18, starting drywall 9/19). In the meantime, I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with this window



don't let the tape fool you, this is going to be the rear wall, not the screen-wall. The window that is covered by the curtain has like a 3/8" offset. My drywall guy says we can handle it by "padding" the studs; I'm not sure what he has in mind exactly, but my brother said he'll probably just attach new studs, 3/8" deeper, to the existing ones.

Works I guess, but I do wonder if there's anything special I should do to that window if it's going to be behind the rock? Do I need to worry about the light, heat, cold, moisture from that window once it's behind sheetrock?

Then I took a look at Rob's Arthouse build



and the first thing that struck me (aside from being a nice, clean build) is how his acoustic treatment is right where my window would be. So I thought maybe I could/should rock around the window and then cover it with a treatment, the size of the window?

C'mon guys, I know plenty of you have had to deal with in-the-way windows in your rooms. Got some advice to share here?

Thanks,

CD

Thanks for the advice Dwight. That wall was originally the back, then I was going to make it the front (which is obvioulsy the post you responded to)...now I have decided to make it the back again.

I agree with much of your advice though. One, this probably won't be the house I'm living in 5 years from now (can't wait for v2.0!) and I am trying to keep resale in mind somewhat (won't everyone be looking for an HT in a home 5 years from now ). Two, drywalling over it just seems wrong somehow (just ask the wife), but now that it's the back wall I'm looking for a way to cover it with an acoustic treatment; kinda like the picture above from The Arthouse.

Thanks,
CD

Well these pics won't make anyone jealous, but for me it is like it took 7 months just to get to Day 1! So, here are some pix of the first real day of work

Walls! Or future walls. It wasn't easy getting them up to the 3rd floor, so it's exciting to me just to have them laying there



Back of room, the before picture (way before...I'm going to need help with that window once I'm after)



New ceiling joists. I'm really happy with the height; offers some roof width, but doesn't feel claustrophobic



My insulation/drywall guy didn't realize I'd gotten R-19 for the 6" ceiling joists, and R-13 for the 4" walls, and put R-13 on the ceiling. He changed it out for the angled sides, but suggested I stay R-13 on the peak; said it gets so hot up there, I don't want to overinsulate. What do you think? Should I buy it or was he just trying to save himself correcting the mistake?



The duct at the back of the room, I have to build the riser over...and my Carlon for the surrounds



And this is as far as we got today. Getting drywall up to the attic, framing, venting, and insulating chewed up plenty of time (ok, my drywall guy didn't bring enough drywall screws with him. I supplied EVERYTHING, thinking he would at least bring his own drywalling stuff. I guess you get what you pay for)



Wife and I are getting ready to take a well-deserved respite to the Finger Lakes, and after I've had my fill of NY's finest grapes, I'll be back at it. Gotta get some more of the boring-behind-the-scenes-of-the-scenes stuff done before the rock closes up...and you know what that means? Lots of questions for my AVS brethren.

CD

A little more progress. Back rocked



C'mon guys, I'm going to need to hit you up for ideas to cover up that window, hopefully with some kind of DIY acoustical treatment. And screen-wall rocked



Isn't this what it's all really about; I finally get to put up my blue tape!

CD

Is this the ultimate reward for all the boring, hard work...getting to finally put the blue tape up and get a real sense of what your movie-watching experience will be like? No, I suppose this must only be the second best moment; the best must surely be the plopping your a$$ in a comfy HT recliner, glass of special grape in one hand, touchscreen controller in the other, and feasting your eyes on the actual BD image this blue tape only represents.

For the record, looks like my blue tape will represent a 96" (d) Carada 2.35 aspect screen. I was hoping for 104", and then really, really tempted to try and justify 100"...but I just don't have the width without really trying to jam the screen up against my "A" ceiling, or ending up too low (that outline will actually be coming down a few inches). 96" sounds so puny when you say it out loud, but to see it in magic blue tape I think I'll be fine; that picture is essentially from the back row.

CD

Hey, look at that...a hit on my build thread. Thanks for the words of encouragement Rip, but don't worry...I will never give up. My riser might not end up acoustically de-coupled from every solid surface in the house, and my walls may not be draped in Linacoustic, OC, GOM, GOB, BOB, or what have you, but I will throw an image up on that screen, and listen to 7.1 channels of lossless audio so help me.

I am definitely starting to suffer from the "paralyzes of analyzes"; I am so afraid of missing something, that I can't fix later, that I'm anticipating v2.0 before I even close the rock up on v1.0. But there's something very cleansing about hitting the wall; I just dust myself off and try to get done.

CD

Might as well bump my own thread to 1,000! I'll be even happier to post some new progress. HVAC is next and then it should be a sprint to the finished room...and a lifetime of tweaking.

CD

Brandon, a new unit is likely to be quite pricey. I considered two routes for HVAC in my Attic build: 1) a ductless system like the Mr. Slim, et al and 2) what they call a damper or zone system; as I understand it, and I'm no expert...just repeating what the HVAC guys I've met with so far have conveyed to me...it'll be installed on my 2nd floor's zone and it'll act like a "smart" switch, and allow control of which areas between the 2nd floor and HT to be heated or cooled.

I considered, but ultimately decided against the ductless systems; they're quiet enough, and reportedly very efficient, but unsightly IMO, and actually more expensive to install. Again, as it's been explained to me, the only trade-off for the zoned system is this: the HVAC guys have said on the hottest of Summer days, don't expect to be able to cool both the 2nd floor and HT to 70 degrees (they have also said heating it won't be the problem, it'll be cooling it in the Summer). This might be unacceptable for many folks, but with just the wife and I, the way I figure it, when it's movie night, we'll just set the thermostat so that the HT will get the juice, and when the movie is over, we just flip-flop the settings.

PM me if you want info on some of the quotes that I've gotten for the ductless and damper systems (if that helps you at all). I do have someone coming early this week who mentioned I'd have to be careful that a damper approach wouldn't overtax my current system; I told him I really wasn't prepared to spend what a dedicated system was likely to cost, but if he wanted to work up a line item quote, I'd be happy to look at it. If that happens, I can pass that along as well.

Good luck with your build; Attic builds are a bit of a pain.

CD

Well, I know maybe I shouldn't have...what with HVAC to install, some electrical yet to do, drywall to finish...paint, carpet, sconces...a screen (!)...but HT enthusiast cannot live by room construction alone. Plus, I got one of those once-in-a-great-while kinda deals; so this arrived for me today



JL Audio Fathom F112! Now the race is really on!

CD

If anyone has followed the thread about my indecision with HVAC for the room, you'll understand why I needed to get back to some AV aspect of the theater today. So I decided to pre-mount the PJ, to make sure of the location I'll like it to go once the ceiling rock is all up.

First, I made a little "H" brace out of scrap 2x4s for between the two joists where I'd like to mount the PJ. My goal is to have the unit as close to the screen as possible, for the image size I want to throw (maximum brightness).

Here's the brace and the mount's top plate


You're never going to confuse me with this guy, but I was quite pleased to find I was perfectly level




And there hangs my VPL-AW15; nearly 300 hours on it, but upside-down for the first time


Is it just me, or is it a little unnerving when you let go of the PJs weight for the first time, and it's just hanging there under its own power? Later tonight, I'm going to try and line the image up some and maybe even post a few screen shots. Take that, stupid, convoluted HVAC!

CD

Well, I know you guys really discourage this kind of thing until the room is done, but after the week I've had...from tenants jumping my rental, to the back and forth of the HVAC decision...I just had to remind myself what it's all for anyway.

Really, I just had to make sure that I could get the right-sized image for my proposed throw, before I rock up the ceiling. Don't worry, the sound isn't even hooked up. But I gotta tell ya, it did my heart good; no calibration, no screen...hell, the wall isn't even mudded or primed and I don't know if the PJ is focused...but here is what I was able to throw up on the bare, naked, unfinished drywall



Gotta love HT! Gotta finish HT!

CD

Had my general Drywall/Framer/Resident Isolationist (don't ask) back today. Didn't get the room completely rocked, as I had hoped, because I didn't have enough speaker cable to pull both the rears and sides...and with that still outstanding, we chose to leave the walls still open some, for the last of the electrical work...but we made some progress. Boring progress, but 3 hours of stuff that needs to get done to be...well, done.

Scintillating huh? My PJ mount and mandatory Blue Carlon with Orange Sidecar



Toasty! Although it was hardly necessary on this unseasonably warm, low 70s day in the Mid-Atlantic



Runway clear...ready for takeoff!



Best thing about today's work: I can clearly see that next time really should be the last time (other than the multiple trips for tape, mud, finish, etc.). Worst thing: having to endure my contractors small-minded opinions on the Economy, Racism, Big Cities, and Politics...and having to constantly correct his thinking about construction for the room as an HT, and not your run-of-the-mill, everyday room (let's see, he pulled 2 runs of Romex, instead of the Romex and HDMI cable to the PJ, wanted to put an access panel in the screen wall, because he assumed the pull-down screen would hide it (of course I'm going fixed-frame, which blew his mind), and he started talking about using metal studs to build my "bench" (which of course he mistook for my talk about the riser, and I never intended for him to even build it anyway; when he asked why it needed to be six feet from the back wall, I had to do the whole movie theater, stadium-seating thing before the light bulb went on).

Then, he kept telling me I needed outlets in the room before we closed up the rock. I said "well, I know I'm supposed to, to get up to code..." and he said "no, not to get up to code, but...let's say you're up here and not watching TV; you're going to want to be able to plug in a lamp so you can see". I had to sort of settle him down and explain the room is really only for watching movies; it's not a Living Room or Family Room, it's a Theater (which probably made me sound like the world's most pretentious jacka$$, but I couldn't keep trying to politely reel him in at every turn.) So then, as the capper, when we got on the subject of it being for movie-watching, he suggested Polar Express 3-D and Red Line (which is apparently about Drag Racing).

Oh what I will put up with for sweet, sweet HT

CD

Well, being as I'm in a holding pattern for now (Electrician coming back 12/2, rocking should get done 12/6) I haven't had an opportunity to ask any dumb questions lately. I need to figure out locations for the sconces, before the Electrician comes, so I went wandering up into the room for some inspiration.

I initially planned to do 2 sconces flanking each side of the screen (a reminder of the front of my room...I'm planning to build-out the sides of that wall)



and then 2 sconces somewhere in the back of the room.



But after looking around the room, I'm not really sure I'll put, or need, 2 sconces in the back; I'm not sure where they'd look right. I think they would look "unusual" on the side knee walls, given their height, and I didn't know where on the back wall they would go best, considering the window and the placement of the rear speakers (represented by the blue blobs). I was thinking about columns, right in front of the riser, that would house a second set of sconces, but my room is narrow...12'...so I think columns, right in front of the riser, would make for an awkward space stepping around the front row.

Now, I would like to put some kind of lighting here



...that of course, will get rocked all the way up to the theater, and the height is about 64"; looks like a great place for a poster, as you're leaving the theater, but I'd also like to get some kind of lighting there, so that you don't fall down the stairs on your way out. All things being equal, I'd go with something right above that door, but if I plan to put a poster there should I go up high, above it? Also, I'd love to be able to remote turn on just that light, so I'll have my electrician make that a "zone", but how do you guys do that "lights on the remote" thing? Is that what Grafik Eye is all about?

Oh, and while I'm asking dumb questions, I also thought of this one: for the areas that you're planning to paint black, like screen-walls and ceilings, does it make sense to start with a white primer, or something else?

Thanks,
CD

OK guys, hold onto your hats. Here's a very small update for my little room. I've finally come to grips with the fact that my V1.0 isn't going to win any design awards; I'm no DIY guru, and between that, and my room not being the ideal shape, build, location, etc., I'm not lining it with acoustic-dampening frames (maybe some panels here and there down the road), doing any soundproofing (not that I need it the way some others might), and I've accepted it'll just be a dedicated, finished room, with a projector and surround sound in it. I guess the only thing I can hang my hat on is I have decent gear (because as I've said before, I'm a gear guy looking for a room, not the other way around. It astounds me sometimes to see these "million dollar" rooms, and they get rounded out with rather average gear. Not trying to put it down; I guess room fabrication, when you have the skills, comes cheap...and good gear doesn't), so my audio and video should, at the very least, be decent.

Anyway, I digress. Got a little electrical done yesterday:

This went from this to this (good 'ol MonoPrice Pro Power Kit)


and this from this to this


I just need to pull the cable for the sides and my guy comes this weekend to close the walls. Tape, mud, sand, prime (all him)...paint, in-walls, built-in, riser, carpet, pj, screen, and gear (all me) and she's all mine.

Props to the AVS HT community for turning me on to Hubbardton Forge! The missus and I love their stuff, and this is exactly what I had in mind for above the theater door (I want it to shed light below for the stairs and above for a particularly well-chosen poster)



and that makes this the perfect match for each side of the screen wall; that is, if I can resist the urge to go for my favorites, here on the right


That's all for now guys. Still gotta figure out how I'm going to handle the dimmers, with no line of site. Back to hammering away on the Lutron Maestro IR post. Hopefully more to come very soon (don't worry, I won't post but a single picture of the finished room, when the rock is done...lol)

CD