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Mr. Pink's Dog Diner Theater (Tips Welcome) - Page 3

post #61 of 2184
Thread Starter 
OK, so I have the Holidays, minimal progress (mudding and finishing drywall, which is hardly noteworthy), and a little misunderstanding with the AVS Mods , to thank for my month-long absence...but even though my drywaller didn't show today, as I think he, along with EVERYONE else, is sick, the room should be nearing completion very soon and it's time to get some ideas for the final touches.

I am still confused as he** (and I don't think I'm alone) when it comes to sound treating the HT. I'm not soundproofing, and I'm not going AT, so I'm getting conflicting opinions about how to treat the room. Specifically, here's my little screen-wall (for the umpteenth time...btw, it is more finished than that now, but the wife is in Chicago with the camera, and you certainly get the idea)



Some say paint it and be done with it, but while I am not looking to go overboard with treatments, I don't want my room sounding like a tin box either. Should I get some Linacoustic? Is there sort of a rule of thumb for to-lin-or-not? I guess if I end up doing the front, I should do the back as well?



Sorry for the hand-wringing guys; like I said, I would hate to end up with a tin box, and too far along to really do much about it. Thanks for any feedback.

CD
post #62 of 2184
Just keep plugging away man looking good
post #63 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Pardon the mess; GC assures me next weekend will be the end of sanding and clean-up, and I can start finishing the room. Still trying to decide if I should Lin this screen-wall or not; not AT...Front speakers will be to the sides there, and Center will be below screen.



And I hadn't planned to do acoustic treatments on the side, knee walls, but my GC did this temporary piece of rock, as a way to access the air handler, etc., behind that panel...



We need to decide how to "finish" it and still allow it to be removed for access. It got me to thinking how it might be perfect...if it was easy enough...to make acoustic panels, about this size, and just have them go floor to top of knee wall. Then I could do one right over that access space, with the removable piece of rock on the back (or something...I am more than open to suggestions)?

Trouble is, I don't have a clue as to how to install these panels. Let me see what I can cobble together from the hundreds of posts I've seen: you build a frame to hold like OC703, wrap it in GOM (or equivalent), and mount it? Here's another shot of my knee wall...



Would attaching these panels be as "easy" as say running a furring strip (I'm just repeating what I've heard it called...lol) the length of the knee wall, at the bottom and top, where the wall meets the angled ceiling...and then just nailing the panels in place? Think it would look funny, coming up against the angled ceiling like that? Which is the thread that is like acoustic panels for dummies...GPowers?

Thanks,
CD
post #64 of 2184
Saw your other thread.

I'll be curious to see how your built in for equipment cabinet turns out.

My condolences to your wallet for the Hubbardton Forge discovery.
post #65 of 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

Would attaching these panels be as "easy" as say running a furring strip (I'm just repeating what I've heard it called...lol) the length of the knee wall, at the bottom and top, where the wall meets the angled ceiling...and then just nailing the panels in place? Think it would look funny, coming up against the angled ceiling like that?

I think that approach should work. However, I agree with you that the resulting gap (between the top of the panels and the angled wall) might not look finished enough, particularly because I think the photo shows that the bottom of the angled wall does not create a straight line horizontally across the wall (seldom does). Therefore, I would plan on also adding a thin trim as the top layer (i.e., on top of the wall and panel, that the panel ducks in behind). This might give you a more finished look, and should be relatively easy/cheap to do. You'll just need to make sure that your furring strip/nailer has the right angle/height to secure both the panels and then the trim. In terms of the trim, you can choose simple to somewhat fancy given the style of the room you're looking for. But IMO you'll want something thin so as not to dominate visually, and also the thinner you go the easier to flex, etc. as necessary to make snug against the angled wall above. Almost like a quarter round look but I think would need to start more with a half round that you then cut down for the right angle (and/or notch) to fit on top of the furring strip/nailer. I actually have a .pdf catalogue of molding/trim styles that came from a cabinet line that Home Depot carries. Not that you'd order from there, but could give you an idea as types of trims that might work. Can I attach here or can email if you want.
post #66 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post

I think that approach should work. However, I agree with you that the resulting gap (between the top of the panels and the angled wall) might not look finished enough, particularly because I think the photo shows that the bottom of the angled wall does not create a straight line horizontally across the wall (seldom does). Therefore, I would plan on also adding a thin trim as the top layer (i.e., on top of the wall and panel, that the panel ducks in behind). This might give you a more finished look, and should be relatively easy/cheap to do. You'll just need to make sure that your furring strip/nailer has the right angle/height to secure both the panels and then the trim. In terms of the trim, you can choose simple to somewhat fancy given the style of the room you're looking for. But IMO you'll want something thin so as not to dominate visually, and also the thinner you go the easier to flex, etc. as necessary to make snug against the angled wall above. Almost like a quarter round look but I think would need to start more with a half round that you then cut down for the right angle (and/or notch) to fit on top of the furring strip/nailer. I actually have a .pdf catalogue of molding/trim styles that came from a cabinet line that Home Depot carries. Not that you'd order from there, but could give you an idea as types of trims that might work. Can I attach here or can email if you want.

Thanks hmmm. I agree that a square, 90-degree top of the panel would look funny up against the angled ceiling (and your point about that seam not being entirely straight is well taken, especially with my GC...lol). If I decide to go this route...and it'll be a phase II kind of project if I do...I think I'd like to somehow make the top of the panel an angled cut, so that when put in place on the furring strip, it'll flush up against the ceiling. I'm no woodworker, but my brother might be able to help with a project like this, if and when I take it on.

Thanks for the feedback,

CD
post #67 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

I'll be curious to see how your built in for equipment cabinet turns out.

You and me both Pilgram...lol. I just finished saying I'm no woodworker in another post, so you know it must be true. My brother actually is, and I made the mistake of trying to get his help (he lives in another state, so the help was by way of phone and pictures). Like I think is only natural, given his craft, his ideas were much more complicated than my IT hands could pull off.

My inspiration has always been Tapiozona's screen wall, just with space for equipment all the way across:



Seems simple enough (with certainly no offense to Tapiozona...after all, they say thievery is the sincerest...), but have I mentioned lately that I'm no woodworker? So we'll see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

My condolences to your wallet for the Hubbardton Forge discovery.

Lol...you know, they actually weren't as expensive as I might have thought. I mean don't get me wrong; they're easily double your average sconce at the 'ole HD or Lowes (I wanna say most of the models I got prices on were from the high one's to mid two's)...and I guess if I needed say 6-8 of them, around the whole room, that would definitely be a hefty price to pay. But I was only looking at 2, plus the one above the door, so 5 hunee or so didn't seem too bad. In any case, I actually decided against the idea; my wife and I know this isn't going to be our last house, and sconces aren't the kind of thing I want to have to pull down and take with us when we leave. So I'll probably just go the big box route for v1.1 here. But I'm glad to have discovered HF. Hopefully when we do get to our last house, it'll be HF all the way around; their stuff is beautiful.

CD
post #68 of 2184
Thread Starter 
I usually can't get any responses from directly within my build thread, but I hate to keep opening up new threads for every little question that I have, so here goes:

I'm looking to build my riser this weekend. The roofing paper that is recommended to go underneath; I've seen #15 and #30. Which is appropriate? Also, is there any advantage to not only putting this between the subfloor and the bottom of the riser, but between the riser joists and the first layer of 3/4"...and the first and second layers of 3/4"...or am I just getting carried away?

Also, a painting question: I'm hoping to maybe start priming this weekend. If you're in here at all, of course you know this is an Attic build, and it's pretty cold up there still. I'm waiting on a ductless system, but in the meantime I have a space heater to keep things "bearable". But do I need to worry about maintaining a certain, mimimum temperature in order to paint properly?

Thanks,
CD
post #69 of 2184
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

I usually can't get any responses from directly within my build thread, but I hate to keep opening up new threads for every little question that I have, so here goes:

I'm looking to build my riser this weekend. The roofing paper that is recommended to go underneath; I've seen #15 and #30. Which is appropriate? Also, is there any advantage to not only putting this between the subfloor and the bottom of the riser, but between the riser joists and the first layer of 3/4"...and the first and second layers of 3/4"...or am I just getting carried away?

The #15 should be fine. Use it on the floor, between the joists and plywood and between the two layers of plywood (unless you have and want to use some green glue).

Quote:


Also, a painting question: I'm hoping to maybe start priming this weekend. If you're in here at all, of course you know this is an Attic build, and it's pretty cold up there still. I'm waiting on a ductless system, but in the meantime I have a space heater to keep things "bearable". But do I need to worry about maintaining a certain, mimimum temperature in order to paint properly?

Thanks,
CD

Check the manufacturers directions. It usually has the temperature ranges for application.
post #70 of 2184
Hi ya CD,

Great job so far.

As for the felt: I've always heard to use #30 when two wood surfaces meet. I don't know the benefit of placing it between the joists and the first layer though. If you are going to use liquid nails or another adhesive to join them, the joist would be completely coupled to the first layer. I think the felt wouldn't be needed. That is just my guess though, so perhaps some expert can comment on that.

Paint: The label on the paint can should specify a tempature range and humidity to use the product. I'm guessing, it starts around 50 F. There is probably a dry time on the can as well, like 2 hours at 75 F with 50% humidity. I'd suggest keeping the heater on before and during your painting session. If you're done up there after painting, you probably could turn off the heater, but the paint may take much longer to dry before its ready for a second coat.

Cheers
post #71 of 2184
I hear of people using #30 more often - but usually for the stage moreso than the riser. Can't hurt.
post #72 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Thanks all. Hope to have some updated pix by Sun/Mon.

CD
post #73 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

I hear of people using #30 more often - but usually for the stage moreso than the riser. Can't hurt.

Yeah, except I just came from the HD, and true to its name, #30 is twice as much as #15 (well, technically they're the same price, but you get twice as much in the #15 roll). I guess if I only need as much as comes in the #30 roll, better to go that direction than the #15, and have all that left over.

Let's see (doing math in head)...riser will be ~ 12' x 6', that's 72 sq ft; 3 pieces between subfloor and riser bottom, riser top and first layer of 3/4", and two layers of 3/4"...that's 216 sq ft. That's exactly what the roll of #30 was! It's like it was made for HT; #30 it is

CD
post #74 of 2184
in other words, saves you half the time putting the same $$ purchase to work. genius.
post #75 of 2184
I've always understood the purpose for the felt paper was to prevent noise from wood rubbing against wood. Assuming that's accurate, you could accomplish the same thing -- and have a much more solid structure -- by using construction adhesive. Glue the first layer of plywood to the 2X frame with construction adhesive, and glue the 2nd layer of plywood to the 1st layer with more construction adhesive. It won't squeak.
post #76 of 2184
Thread Starter 
GC is upstairs banging away as I speak; we're hoping to get the build-out shadowbox and riser finished today. To this point, I haven't been crazy about his work, and under the best of circumstances I know you should always speak up and hold your contractor to a reasonable standard. However, I also believe you get, and can only demand, what you've paid for and that's why I let the guy slide here and there; he's working cheap.

Plus, I'm like the guy in that old Seinfeld bit about mechanics (Oh, it looks like you're going to need a new Johnson Rod in there. Oh, a Johnson Rod huh...well, if you say I need it...lol); in other words, I don't know what I'm talking about enough to really question his work.

So I'll ask my AVS brethren: this shadowbox for the screen-wall; I think it's really important this joint in particular have a nice, crisp 90 degree finish to it...so I would have thought a corner-bead was in order. We got them, when we were doing our shopping at the Lowe's this morning, but my GC says it'll be for the outside corner (when we get to it). When I asked him whether he was going to use one to finish the inside corner, where the shadowbox sides meet the screen-wall, he said no...that's what tape is for.



Are all "inverted" corners like that just taped, or would it have been appropriate for him to maybe use a corner-bead, to give me a really sharp finish?

CD
post #77 of 2184
Thread Starter 
OK, let's get this out of the way; here are my obligatory riser-build pix. I thought twice about even taking and posting them, as I'm sure you all have seen roofing paper, 2x10s, and decking ad nauseam...and it's not like there's anything revolutionary about my approach. But then I figured it was almost like a right of passage, so without further ado...



You guys did say paper between the joists and first layer of decking, right?


TA DA


First layer done, flush with that duct we have to span at the back of the room. Second layer to the back wall next time. Which brings me to a question: I had hoped to wedge another 2x10 behind that duct (between the back wall and the duct), and use that as the back nailer. It's just a bit too tight. My GC suggested like a metal header; he said it's like an "L"-shaped bracket, so it would get attached to the back wall, and then the second layer up decking would rest in the "L". I asked about the "lip" that would leave, above that second layer, at the back wall, and he said it's like 7/16", so the thickness of the decking, and then padding, carpet, etc. and you'd never notice it. Or he said he could just rip a 2x10 down to like an 1 1/4". I told him I'd decide for next time. Thoughts?

OH, btw...yes, that is OSB...yes it is 1/2". My GC is always trying to save me money...and usually I tell him a couple of dollars here or there is not going to kill me, and...since I don't know what I'm doing...I'd rather just stick to the way I've seen it done on AVS. But I have to admit that 2 layers of 1/2" OSB really did seem like enough for the top of the riser. Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong...oh so wrong...lol; nothing I can do about it now.

And, it turns out the top of my riser, at 2 layers of 1/2" OSB, would be sturdier than my subfloor. My Attic subfloor is not 3/4" or 2 layers of 1/2"; it is only a single layer of 1/2". I definitely need to bolster this up before carpet, yes?

Oh, and we finished rocking and started mudding the shadowbox on the screen-wall



All in all, a solid day's progress I guess.

CD
post #78 of 2184
Thread Starter 
All you SketchUp freaks ain't got sh*t on me



CD
post #79 of 2184
where ya hiding the acoustimass?
post #80 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post

where ya hiding the acoustimass?

I beg your pardon?

CD
post #81 of 2184
Corner bead is for outside corners, inside get tape. - True

The metal L-bracket sounds fine on the back. Carpet and baseboard should hide any lip that may protrude or any gap that is created.

2 layers of 1/2'' is fine also.
post #82 of 2184
just kidding around...i did not notice in your diagram your PCH or squeezebox. where would you place these or are they elsewhere?
post #83 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post

just kidding around...i did not notice in your diagram your PCH or squeezebox. where would you place these or are they elsewhere?

Ah. The PCH is in the Living Room for now. Once I get it dialed-in just right, I'll be anxious to see if this thing can pass muster in the HT; my audio needs in the Family Room are modest...everything is just getting knocked down to 2-channel LPCM...whereas in the HT I'll want lossless pass-thru. Also, a 42" Plasma is much more forgiving than a 96" PJ, but we'll see soon enough. And I'm sure a Duet will make it up eventually (if not a Transporter

CD
post #84 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by In2Photos View Post

Corner bead is for outside corners, inside get tape. - True

The metal L-bracket sounds fine on the back. Carpet and baseboard should hide any lip that may protrude or any gap that is created.

2 layers of 1/2'' is fine also.

Thanks Mike. I'm not too concerned about being attached to that back wall, but all things being equal I was really hoping to get a 2x10 behind that duct and down to the floor...for support. My GC says he can rip a 2x, but isn't that going to be pretty difficult; to rip a 2x on the 1.5" side...down to like an 1.25"? I guess not on a table saw, which I don't have.

You sound like you know what you're talking about; which would you suggest?

Thanks,
CD
post #85 of 2184
Thread Starter 
It's amazing what getting a little of the "theater"-type stuff done will do to get the creative juices flowing. While my GC was banging around with the rocking, and scraping away with the mudding (and "shoosing" away with the sanding...lol), I was pretty apathetic toward the room. But one day after getting my hands a little dirty, and building something as mundane as the riser, I can't get the old brainpan to stop buzzing.

So, I'm sure you couldn't care less, but here are the "sketches" I did to sort out the build-in I want to do, and a shot at panels.



I considered these schemes, and think I have decided on a pattern like this



Exciting huh? What the heck, it's my build thread, and besides...I don't think anyone is really paying attention anyway (with my apologies to hmmm and In2, for calling them nobodies...lol).

CD
post #86 of 2184
A Reservoir Dogs fan I see. Looking good.
post #87 of 2184
offense taken....if i were somebody. i like those color schemes a lot. has the dark colors and black you want in a HT but are cool looking. i am a little confused though. of the 4 patterns you posted, are you thinking just one or is there an evolution of the pattern around the room?
post #88 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post

offense taken....if i were somebody. i like those color schemes a lot. has the dark colors and black you want in a HT but are cool looking. i am a little confused though. of the 4 patterns you posted, are you thinking just one or is there an evolution of the pattern around the room?

They were actually the 4 ways I was considering doing the panels. Hard to tell with my 2D Paint renderings, but 1-4, going clockwise would be (1) alternating burgundy panels with black wall, (2) alternating black panels with burgundy wall, (3) bigger burgundy panels alternating with black wall, and (4) burgundy panels butted right up against each other.

As I said, I liked 4 best...at least in Paint, lol...but after showing and explaining it to my wife she thinks it'll make the room feel too "closed in". Even though I'm hoping the panels will only be an inch thick, with the room only being 12' wide, I kind of see her point.

So now I'm thinking about something like this, where either the top or bottom section will get the treatment and fabric, and the other section will just be paint. Now I just need to figure out which area is better treated, as far as the acoustics of the room.



CD
post #89 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eRob View Post

A Reservoir Dogs fan I see. Looking good.

Just call me Mr. Pink (and glad I'm not Mr. Yellow).

CD
post #90 of 2184
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CDLehner View Post

So now I'm thinking about something like this, where either the top or bottom section will get the treatment and fabric, and the other section will just be paint. Now I just need to figure out which area is better treated, as far as the acoustics of the room.



CD

OK, I'm trying to help myself, but trust me when I say I am not reading all 145 pages of the Acoustical Treatments Master Thread. But the answer to my question is the bottom section, yes; because you're trying to treat floor to ear-level?

CD
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