HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 30 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #871 of 11714 Old 08-16-2012, 01:24 PM
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i1pro does not work in 3.0.0.0
Successful manually installed Argyll driver and win7 64bit reports i1pro is working.

After i start HCFR 3.xx program can not communicate with i1pro.

Am i forgeting something?

Ps sorry for ask this twice but i really want to try the v3 version with my i1pro

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post #872 of 11714 Old 08-16-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grunnsat View Post

I bought a new ColorMunki Display, installed the software, updated the software from V1.01 to V1.02, and I was able to calibrate the screen of my PC. So the ColorMunki drivers are working.
I also installed HCFR 3.04, and this version is supposed to support the ColorMunki.
However when I try to use HCFR, it doesn't find the ColorMunki. My only choices are Simulated Sensor, DTP-94, and HCFR sensor.
I tried to figure out what can be wrong, and I noticed that the ColorMunki.inf file in the drivers section has different Vendor and and Product IDs compared to the real ID's that I found with DXdiag.
The ColorMunki.inf file has VID_ 0971 and PID_2007, the real values are VID_0765 and PID_5020.
I noticed that the DTP-94.inf file in HCFR also has VID_0765, but a different PID value.
I edited the ColorMunki.inf file to reflect the actual VID and PID values, but still HCFR only gave me the same three choices.
Then I removed all DTP-94 files from the driver section, and still I get the same three choices.
HCFR is aware that the ColoMunki is connected, because it reports Incorrect driver - Starting communication with the meter failed with severe error. Argyll error. Without the ColoMunki connected I don't get this notification.
I reported this on the HCFR forum, but so far no reaction. Is there anyone on this forum who can tell me what is wrong?
Exit the colormunki stuff that's running in the system tray before starting HCFR. The Argyl driver can't connect to the meter while the colormunki app is loaded.
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post #873 of 11714 Old 08-16-2012, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post


With a meter like the i1pro you need to block the aperture when you calibrate it because it's calculating a dark offset.

Zoyd, can you explain this? I remember this from when I used the old HCFR software but I'm puzzled as to why when the i1 Pro when being used with Xrite software is calibrated on a white tile.

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post #874 of 11714 Old 08-16-2012, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Zoyd, can you explain this? I remember this from when I used the old HCFR software but I'm puzzled as to why when the i1 Pro when being used with Xrite software is calibrated on a white tile.

I'd like to know what this means aswell, since i just did an inside of a dvd case jobby to calibrate mine before taking measurements, and didnt use a white tile.

Profiled my i1d3 tonite, got the following correction file.

0.990621 0.026593 -0.011081
-0.020218 1.008384 0.003263
0.011199 -0.015908 0.955398

Got a pretty good calibration using Calman 4 smile.gif Looks great!

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post #875 of 11714 Old 08-17-2012, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djams View Post

Exit the colormunki stuff that's running in the system tray before starting HCFR. The Argyl driver can't connect to the meter while the colormunki app is loaded.

Thanks, I found what you mean. I will post the complete procedure later on so that anyone can understand what to do.
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post #876 of 11714 Old 08-17-2012, 01:45 AM
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How to use the X-Rite ColorMunki Display colorimeter with HCFR 3.04.

When you bought the ColorMunki Display colorimeter, you most likely installed the X-Rite software as well. This software package makes it possible to use the ColorMunki permanently, and for that purpose the installation procedure installs a piece of software that will start at boot time. This software will attach the ColorMunki and thus prevent HCFR to attach the ColorMunki.

To allow HCFR to attach the ColorMunki this software has to be stopped with the following procedure:
  • Use ctrl-alt-del to start the Task Manager
  • Click on the Processes tab
  • Click on Image Name to get an alphabetical list of the running processes
  • Look for the ColorMunkiDisplayTray.exe process
  • Right-click on ColorMunkiDisplayTray.exe and choose End Process Tree
  • Use File > exit Task Manager to close the Task Manager


Now you can start HCFR and the ColorMunki will be visible in the list of available colorimeters.

The ColorMunki software comes with a number of profiles that you can use in HCFR. To make these profiles available to HCFR do the following:
  • Open a Command box by using Start > Run and entering cmd , or Start > Programs > Accesoires > Command Prompt, what ever you like.
  • Go to the tools directory of HCFR, cd C:\Program Files\HCFR Calibration\Tools
  • run the program i1d3ccss, i1d3ccss -v -S l


The profiles should now be visible in the Spectral Sample setting when you start a new calibration with HCFR.
There are more options with i1d3ccss, using i1d3ccss --help wil give you a very limited help. Otherwise use Google to find more information like man pages. However the previous procedure is fine for most users.

The previous information is based on HCFR 3.04, ColorMunki software 1.02, and Windows Vista.
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post #877 of 11714 Old 08-17-2012, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerbeenl View Post

I1D3 does a better low ire (brightness) measure than the i1pro.

Can I ask why? Even with the latest drivers? I just find it odd that a cheap colorimeter that needs a colour correction matrix can outperform a much more expensive and sophisticated spectrophotometer. If this were true sales of the i1Pro would collapse.




I'm sure John is very busy with a bunch of things at this moment but it would be great to get a bit of a status update on how things are coming along. I guess the things I am most interested in are:

- any progress on hunting down the issue with the i1Pro?
- any update on adding support for ITU-R BT1886? (this is rather fundamental to display calibration)

Also, what dE definition is currently being used? I recall from my previous discussions on and use of HCFR (but I may have a poor memory) that it was still using the now rather dated dE 76 definition. After that, Mac support would be next.

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post #878 of 11714 Old 08-17-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

Can I ask why? Even with the latest drivers? I just find it odd that a cheap colorimeter that needs a colour correction matrix can outperform a much more expensive and sophisticated spectrophotometer. If this were true sales of the i1Pro would collapse.

I was also interested in this and found the following on TFT Central website...

"The i1 Pro hardware itself is widely regarded as a high end spectrophotometer and is one of the best you can buy without spending several thousands of pounds or getting true 'reference grade' equipment. Being a spectrophotometer it offers the most accurate readings for the widest range of displays and is more suited than a colorimeter due to the way it reads light and makes measurements. The i1 Pro does have a drawback in its relatively limited low-light sensitivity. It simply does not read as low (close to black) as most colorimeters. The i1 Pro alone is therefore not the perfect choice for gamma and contrast measurements that will generally require readings below the i1 Pro's effective operating range, but it can easily be paired with a decent colorimeter to provide these measurements."
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post #879 of 11714 Old 08-17-2012, 02:53 PM
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I'm still rather sceptical. What L* do people measure on their PDPs when set at 0 NDDL (IRE =0 or reference black post setting "brightness")? I need to get HCFR up and running again to test my Kuro but I regularly use my i1Pro to set B&W printing profiles for fine art inkjet printing. This requires the i1Pro to distinguish between, for example, L* values down around 5 or so which is pretty damn black (densities > 2.25). (Admittedly those are reflective readings and not emissive)

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post #880 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Which L*?

For L*=116*(Y/Yw)^1/3 the D3 can measure down to L*=5 (contrast=12000 @ 120 cd/m^2 white), the i1pro if used very carefully with extended integration time or averaging can only measure down to L*= 9 (contrast=2400 @ 120 cd/m^2 white). This is because the colorimeter integrates the flux over a much larger bandpass prior to the detector.
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post #881 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 09:05 AM
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CIELab L*


There must be a massive difference in reflective versus emissive capability then. If the i1Pro couldn't measure down to 5 or below it would be useless to anyone profiling their Epson printer. Min L* with Epson Adv B&W driver and PK ink on Hahnemuhle Photorag Baryta paper is below 5. (To be more precise, the profile I am looking at has L*ab values of 4.85, -0.47, 0.79 respectively. An L* of 9 is only about 93% grey for that printer, ink and paper combination.) The i1Pro can comfortably measure the difference between, say, 94, 96, 98 and 100% black (L* of 6.93, 5.39, 5.0, 4.85 in this case).

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post #882 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekale View Post

CIELab L*

ah, ok. in CIELab L*=Y/Yw*903.3 for mll's below about 1 cd/m^2 (~11% stimulus), so using this formula with peak white=120 cd/m^2:

1. i1pro minimum L* ~ 0.4
2. D3 minimum L* ~0.08
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post #883 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 10:19 AM
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I didn't think there was any other L*

How dark do you think a good PDP is, powered with a well-set brightness? (Such as my Kuro. I really need to get a Windoze machine and get playing around....) Also, if you can answer my question above re calibration of the i1Pro I would greatly appreciate it.

Can one buy a D3/Pro without any software included? I already have i1Profiler.

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post #884 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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It's the same L* but has a linear segment when you get close to zero light (Y/Yw < 216/24389) or L* ~7.99 on emissive devices.

The darkest consumer PDPs currently on the market are 2012 panasonics where minimum L* will approach 0.08 but the i1pro won't be able to measure it. Kuro Elites are a factor of 10 better than today's PDPs but you need a Klein (high end colorimeter) to measure them.

Regarding dark calibration of the i1pro - this needs to be performed quite often if you want to measure low light levels as the temperature drift of the sensor is pretty strong. HCFR just performs a dark calibration so all you need to do is block the aperture. The xrite software also performs an LED calibration for reflective measurements and that's where you need the white tile.

I believe all the retail D3s come with the basic xrite match software but these will work fine with HCFR.
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post #885 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 10:46 AM
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Dang, I keep connecting to the foreign version of this thread. rolleyes.gif
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post #886 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It's the same L* but has a linear segment when you get close to zero light (Y/Yw < 216/24389) or L* ~7.99 on emissive devices.

Ok that I knew. I'm more used to measuring L* directly, deriving Y (or your Y/Yw) and calculating density.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

The darkest consumer PDPs currently on the market are 2012 panasonics where minimum L* will approach 0.08 but the i1pro won't be able to measure it. Kuro Elites are a factor of 10 better than today's PDPs but you need a Klein (high end colorimeter) to measure them.

This is my display http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/products/archive/PDP-LX608D/index.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Regarding dark calibration of the i1pro - this needs to be performed quite often if you want to measure low light levels as the temperature drift of the sensor is pretty strong. HCFR just performs a dark calibration so all you need to do is block the aperture. The xrite software also performs an LED calibration for reflective measurements and that's where you need the white tile.
I believe all the retail D3s come with the basic xrite match software but these will work fine with HCFR.

Ok. It's just puzzling given that Xrite uses the white tile for calibration ahead of display profiling.

Sounds like I should grab a D3. i1Match is discontinued. I believe the D3/Pro ships with the full i1Profiler but the device acts as a dongle. Does anyone know if the meter-only pricing here http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_EyeOneDisplay3.shtm simply means the D3 plus i1Profiler or is it just the D3 and so cheaper still?

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post #887 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure but I think the non-elite Kuros are around 0.01 cd/m^2 which would put them at the same level as the 2012 Panasonics. That's at the limit of the D3 sensitivity but if you have a 10pt gamma control you should be able to get the 10% level correct.
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post #888 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 02:19 PM
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I don't think there was an Elite designation in Europe. The LX608D was their absolute top of the line display here. It cost over £5k. There was the 608D and the 6080D - the former had the Direct Colour Filter 3 technology. I think this is the PDP that was sold as an Elite in the US.

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post #889 of 11714 Old 08-18-2012, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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post #890 of 11714 Old 08-20-2012, 02:41 AM
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Ok I have ordered an i1 Display 3.

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post #891 of 11714 Old 08-21-2012, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Well I guess you'll find out if/when the D3 reads 0.0 😊

Hmmm I think the set you are referring to was released a year after mine - 9G plasma, the second edition of Kuro and the last. I didn't even focus on it at the time. Damn.

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post #892 of 11714 Old 08-21-2012, 08:48 AM
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Hi,

it's a question that probably has been asked before, but what's the best way to create a projector-profile for an HCFR colorimeter?
It happens that I have an i1 pro (UV-cut, Rev. A) and Calman 4 for a few days, so I'd like to create a .thc file for my projector, as none of the existing suits me.

Thanks

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post #893 of 11714 Old 08-21-2012, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

FWIW, here is the matrix for my D3 which is a D3 "Pro" (Pro meaning it was calibrated by Chromapure) and the corrections were provided, resulting in this matrix. Fairly similar results to yours Zoyd
Code:
1.007784412  0.006564804     -0.002042014
-0.001327602    0.990473662     0.001055968
-0.006456811    0.002961534     1.000986046
Above is "3 color matrix".
If I should use 4 color matrix, it is below.
Code:
1.038606808  -0.002502512    -0.011492028
0.010401065     0.994002567     -0.003384238
-0.006758658    0.008717773     0.977999919

What is the difference between 3 colour matrix, and a 4 colour matrix??

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post #894 of 11714 Old 08-21-2012, 11:54 AM
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Ok have i1Pro and i1 Display Pro. Also looking at getting ControlCal so I can access the gamma settings in my 8G Kuro. How do I calibrate the D3 with the i1Pro?

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Need some help...I just downloaded hcfr 3.0.4 over 2.01 and it cant see my 1i display 2 communicating with software...I keep getting argylle severe error.

Version 2.01 worked fine with 1D2...

How can I get hcfr 3.04 to communicate with my iD2....I have read post after post and my head is spinning...eek.gif

Edit: Got it working,I did not know i had to dl argylle zip and delete a few of my other drivers to aim my id2 to argylle.

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post #896 of 11714 Old 08-22-2012, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndaa75 View Post

What is the difference between 3 colour matrix, and a 4 colour matrix??

Anyone able to give an answer to this?
Also using my 'profiled' i1d3 my wife has commented that whites look a little green!!!! I did notice on my settings that red in WB settings really had to be reduced to bring the grayscale in line.

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post #897 of 11714 Old 08-22-2012, 07:56 AM
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Which avs709 patterns are best for calibrating a Panny GT30 when using HCFR?

Small or Large apl patterns or the standard 10% greyscale window?

I get a difference when reading apl patterns in regards to regular window and I will like to know which one works best for Panny Plasma.

Thanks...

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post #898 of 11714 Old 08-22-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

Which avs709 patterns are best for calibrating a Panny GT30 when using HCFR?
Small or Large apl patterns or the standard 10% greyscale window?
I get a difference when reading apl patterns in regards to regular window and I will like to know which one works best for Panny Plasma.
Thanks...

use the smallest window patterns you have to avoid the panels auto limiting circuit.
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post #899 of 11714 Old 08-22-2012, 10:03 AM
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@vega509

Thanks for your help.Will give it a go...

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post #900 of 11714 Old 08-23-2012, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndaa75 View Post

Anyone able to give an answer to this?
Also using my 'profiled' i1d3 my wife has commented that whites look a little green!!!! I did notice on my settings that red in WB settings really had to be reduced to bring the grayscale in line.

I eventually came to this conclusion as well with HCFR and my i1D3. Using Zoyd's correction matrix was just a tad greener than I liked. I did not have this issue when calibrating with Calman however. HCFR is still not doing something right with the i1D3 - at least not on my VT30 plasma. The Calman calibration simply looks visually better when doing A-B comparisons.
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