HCFR - Open source projector and display calibration software - Page 56 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1651 of 11714 Old 03-20-2013, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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if the D3 matrix actually gives you more accuracy than no matrix at all you would be lucky I think. I looked at a couple of D2 matrices in the database and they are quite different from the D3. Also, the D2 is not as stable over time.

here was one example:

1.2055 -0.018524 0.010040
-5.6607e-03 1.1403 5.2525e-03
0.011197 -0.013573 1.1991
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post #1652 of 11714 Old 03-20-2013, 01:57 PM
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Thanks again zoyd for the quick response. I did a new calibration without the correction file and it came out pretty good. Accuracy is pretty good, now hopefully my meter hasn't drifted too much. I have kept it sealed in 2 ziploc bags with a desiccant so hopefully not too much drift has occurred.

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #1653 of 11714 Old 03-20-2013, 03:39 PM
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Yes, the D2/LT matrices have a much larger deviation from unit to unit. Here is the matrix for my six year old LT which has been stored in a low humidity environment. It was profiled recently using my i1 Pro spectrometer and the Samsung D7000 plasma. The deviations are quite low from perfect.

1.088173 -0.000281 0.011300
0.015566 1.077892 0.004213
0.008440 -0.000576 1.098182

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post #1654 of 11714 Old 03-20-2013, 04:16 PM
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Very encouraging for those of us who tend to keep their colorimeters for a long time!

That's a picture of Leadbelly's grave in Shiloh Baptist Church Cemetery Mooringsport Caddo Parish Louisiana (with Arlo Gutherie's guitar picks placed in memoriam). Arlo put them on his grave in 2005 and they were still there in 2012.
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post #1655 of 11714 Old 03-22-2013, 06:19 AM
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Probably a dumb question for you guys here, but..

Is the information box in the center of HCFR interactive and real time? I just now seen the drop down after having played with my TV for the past week and never knew there was ways to see this stuff other than the top tabs.

Is the stuff like gamma and luminence in that drop down in real time if I do a continuous read on a 50% gray pattern and make adjustments? I have so many spots on my finished calibration where I am still low on luminence and gamma points go from 2.22 to 2.28 in the same pattern. If these things are real time, I think that might help me make the final 10 point adjustments I would need then.

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post #1656 of 11714 Old 03-22-2013, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Probably a dumb question for you guys here, but..

Is the information box in the center of HCFR interactive and real time? I just now seen the drop down after having played with my TV for the past week and never knew there was ways to see this stuff other than the top tabs.

Is the stuff like gamma and luminence in that drop down in real time if I do a continuous read on a 50% gray pattern and make adjustments? I have so many spots on my finished calibration where I am still low on luminence and gamma points go from 2.22 to 2.28 in the same pattern. If these things are real time, I think that might help me make the final 10 point adjustments I would need then.

can you capture the window you are referring to and mark it up so we can see what you are referring to?
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post #1657 of 11714 Old 03-22-2013, 06:13 PM
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I checked it out when I got home and didn't see any interactive screens. I thought maybe, where the drop down that says comments in the big middle box is, that when you were doing the white balance 10 point that it was maybe in real time. It isn't though.

Well since I used the HCFR for the first time this week, I think I am done for a bit. I have been doing this with my TV for too long now and I am getting dirty looks from the wife. Time to quit trying. I think I have done an OK job for the first time. Here is my final (for now) results with HCFR and the Colormunki Display.

I did nothing with my LG LW5600 CMS settings. They are default still. Not sure what I am trying to accomplish with it. I had Calmans before and it was fairly easy to see the changes, but this time, I am clueless. So I am leaving them the way they were. I also think the Color, Tint, and CMS on my LG have a direct impact on the white balance. They shouldn't, but if I make any changes at all on any of them, my grayscale goes bad on my next run through.

Does anyone see anything that looks like I went wrong anywhere on these graphs? I think they are good, but I really don't know enough to say.

Sorry for the grammar or any spelling errors.. been a long day and night...

Expert 1 3-22-13.zip 5k .zip file

BTW.. Very nice software for what it does. I am very glad to have been on this forum for a long time and able to follow everyones comments and hear about HCFR. Nice job to all involved with it.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Expert 1 3-22-13.zip (5.4 KB, 110 views)

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post #1658 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

if the D3 matrix actually gives you more accuracy than no matrix at all you would be lucky I think. I looked at a couple of D2 matrices in the database and they are quite different from the D3. Also, the D2 is not as stable over time.

here was one example:

1.2055 -0.018524 0.010040
-5.6607e-03 1.1403 5.2525e-03
0.011197 -0.013573 1.1991
Hello Zoyd! first thanks for all this! I found today that there was an improved version of HCFR!
Using a probe i1 Display Pro, isd3!
A few days ago I have it and I'm trying to get better day calibration, in my ES7000 LED TV.
What I find most difficult to measure in CIE colors well, because I can not get is well approximated colors.
I wanted to ask, when the HCFR start from scratch! I choose patterns for dvd and when I choose the probe goes down to CHOOSE generic d3 d3 white led and several more, I have to choose one of these for my i1 display pro?
And then when I'm in my tube box, leaving the option of choosing a range, eg white LCD IPS LED (WLED samsung lg), that option is also the I choose? and after all that, I give the Calibrate button?
Sorry for multiple questions and apologize for my English is not very good, I'm from Argentina and I want is to keep improving my calibration, I'm close, but I need to improve the CIE.
And prefencias, advanced, I have to dial in delta and the option to use instead of CIE94 delta luv and formula?
Thank you very much and I hope your answer when you can, so I start again to calibrate.
David.
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post #1659 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I would recommend in the probe set-up:

1. non-refresh display
2. do not use meter correction file
3. spectral sample = LCD White LED IPS

do not use CIELUV (leave box unchecked)


cheers
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post #1660 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I would recommend in the probe set-up:

1. non-refresh display
2. do not use meter correction file
3. spectral sample = LCD White LED IPS

do not use CIELUV (leave box unchecked)


cheers
Zoyd thank you very much! in a while I get to calibrate again, with this new version and your suggestion to set my probe.
The box detect user measueres During primary colors, I leave off?
And I leave latency time of 100 ms?
In gamma, gamma display left or left with black display gamma compensation?
By default gamma is 2.22, this is better than 2.0?
To day, I set gamma to 2.0 and for night, 2.4, but for there to day, 2.22 would be better?
Thank you very much for everything
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post #1661 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

Zoyd thank you very much! in a while I get to calibrate again, with this new version and your suggestion to set my probe.
The box detect user measueres During primary colors, I leave off?
And I leave latency time of 100 ms?
In gamma, gamma display left or left with black display gamma compensation?
By default gamma is 2.22, this is better than 2.0?
To day, I set gamma to 2.0 and for night, 2.4, but for there to day, 2.22 would be better?
Thank you very much for everything

Detect primary colors = on. This allows you to run continuous measures and view the results in real-time in the primaries and seconds window to fine tune.
Latency time is only for the view images generator so for DVD player it doesn't matter.
gamma target should be BT.1886 for your display because black level is not that good.
keep BT.1886 for both daytime and nighttime viewing but change contrast, maybe 40-45 ftL day and < 35 ftL at night depending on how dark the room is, no eye strain.
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post #1662 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Detect primary colors = on. This allows you to run continuous measures and view the results in real-time in the primaries and seconds window to fine tune.
Latency time is only for the view images generator so for DVD player it doesn't matter.
gamma target should be BT.1886 for your display because black level is not that good.
keep BT.1886 for both daytime and nighttime viewing but change contrast, maybe 40-45 ftL day and < 35 ftL at night depending on how dark the room is, no eye strain.
thank you very much!
Then I'll make BT. 1886! you really think that black is not very good in the series of Samsung ES7000 and 8000?
40-45 for day
30-35 for night
Perfect.
The objective of BT gamma. 1886, is 2.22? So, let 2.22 for day and night, with BT. 1886?
Sorry if my questions are silly!
But hey, I'm a beginner with the calibration, but I like to learn every day! I've learned quite a lot and leei in these last weeks, but I always say, every day, you learn something.
Thank you very much, because I have more clear and now I hope to get calibrate the ICN, which is what I can not get the last 4 days! Because then, with the gray scale going well.
Gamma, I have it there.
But the hardest thing for me is the CIE because of my tele samsung cms and not respond well and I want to adjust the values ​​of 709!
About the ftl, I lower the backlight, correct? contrast, try to set a pattern, but for the CTF, low backlight, Perhaps I am wrong, I do not know.
Thank you again.
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post #1663 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I read your display has somewhere between 0.05 - 0.07 cd/m^2 black which is not too bad but BT.1886 would still be best for you if you have a 10 pt. control. If so, match your Y measurements to the Gamma Y values in the gray scale page. If you don't have a 10 pt. then select display gamma, gamma = 2.2 and pick the best gamma preset to match that.
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post #1664 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I read your display has somewhere between 0.05 - 0.07 cd/m^2 black which is not too bad but BT.1886 would still be best for you if you have a 10 pt. control. If so, match your Y measurements to the Gamma Y values in the gray scale page. If you don't have a 10 pt. then select display gamma, gamma = 2.2 and pick the best gamma preset to match that.
thanks, if my tv has thankfully 10p! then I use with gamma to 2.22? for ftl, should lower the contrast backlight to touch as little as possible for ftl? Thanks for everything
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post #1665 of 11714 Old 03-24-2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

thanks, if my tv has thankfully 10p! then I use with gamma to 2.22? for ftl, should lower the contrast backlight to touch as little as possible for ftl? Thanks for everything
Hi, this should answer a lot of your questions: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
For setting contrast and backlight the method I use is to put up white on the screen and enter live measurement mode. Start increasing contrast while looking at the R, G, and B measurements in the box at the bottom left. Once one of R, G, or B stops increasing when you increase contrast you are clipping. Go back 1 step on contrast and you are done. Next step is to set backlight to get your target ftL. There is no right answer on this, dark room 30ftl, medium bright 40-60ftl, sunlight 60+.
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post #1666 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

thanks, if my tv has thankfully 10p! then I use with gamma to 2.22? for ftl, should lower the contrast backlight to touch as little as possible for ftl? Thanks for everything
Use bt.1886 and match the points using your 10pt system as zoyd said.

I would set brightness and contrast, then set the backlight to reach your desired brightness. If you're using the AVSHD709 disc, set the contrast so that at least 235 and below are flashing.
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post #1667 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Use bt.1886 and match the points using your 10pt system as zoyd said.

I would set brightness and contrast, then set the backlight to reach your desired brightness. If you're using the AVSHD709 disc, set the contrast so that at least 235 and below are flashing.
thank you! I use bt.1886 as Zoyd said! but the value of gamma in HCFR I leave in 2.22 default one? a gamma curve is better than a flat? Zoyd said if a thread of it.
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post #1668 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10k View Post

Hi, this should answer a lot of your questions: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
For setting contrast and backlight the method I use is to put up white on the screen and enter live measurement mode. Start increasing contrast while looking at the R, G, and B measurements in the box at the bottom left. Once one of R, G, or B stops increasing when you increase contrast you are clipping. Go back 1 step on contrast and you are done. Next step is to set backlight to get your target ftL. There is no right answer on this, dark room 30ftl, medium bright 40-60ftl, sunlight 60+.
thank you! if that is the guide I use, is very good! in HCFR, I leave the default gamma in 2.22? bt.1886 what I have already marked for all! of day and night, I can have the gamma in 2.22?
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post #1669 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 10:00 AM
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I was calibrating my buddies HTPC over the weekend using the HCFR pattern generator and noticed the free measures 100% white and the grayscale measures 100% white are at different levels. The generator settings are set to video 16 to 235. The free measures outputs a far lower level at 100% white than the grayscale measures. This made setting the contrast level impossible with free measures.

This was observed using the latest HCFR release, and Windows 7 64bit OS.
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post #1670 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vega509 View Post

I was calibrating my buddies HTPC over the weekend using the HCFR pattern generator and noticed the free measures 100% white and the grayscale measures 100% white are at different levels. The generator settings are set to video 16 to 235. The free measures outputs 255 at 100% white. This made setting the contrast level impossible with free measures.

This was observed using the latest HCFR release, and Windows 7 64bit OS.
Pretty sure that's intended behavior. You are better of running free measures off of a set of patterns like the GCD set - https://www.avsforum.com/t/1406352/gcd-gamut-calibration-disk
or the AVS 709 set - https://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

The extra benefit of calibrating off those patterns is they are presumably going through the same video pipeline that you will be running content through, so you eliminate a potential source of mismatch/inaccuracy.
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post #1671 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 10:40 AM
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This gamma setting of bt.1186?

If I do not see this anywhere when I do a new calibration, then I just use with Black compensation?

I have the colormunki dispay meter and use the LED white Samsung setting also. I have done my calibrations using gamma with black comp and gamma target of 2.25

Is there something else I should be using?

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post #1672 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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BT.1886 is a selectable target in the advanced references tab. display gamma + black compensation will give you a simple approximation to BT.1886, I supposed you could try both and see how different the settings are in each case but BT.1886 is preferable since it is an actual standard.
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post #1673 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

thank you! if that is the guide I use, is very good! in HCFR, I leave the default gamma in 2.22? bt.1886 what I have already marked for all! of day and night, I can have the gamma in 2.22?

Hi Leondavid, I'm the same guy from spanish forum forodvd. Glad to see you here.

Be aware that BT 1886 doesn't have a target gamma. Instead it calculates each Y value for each IRE% related to max. Y in 100% IRE in order to avoid black crushing on low IRE. You should reach the desired Y indicated in HCFR (row Gamma Y) for each %IRE. You can reach the same result and learn about it in GCD Thread.

Therefore the resulting gamma will not be linear but an ascending curve from low IRE to high IRE.

Hope it helps,
alamagar.
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I do not get the option for bt.1886 on mine in the reference tab. I only have display gamma, black comp, camera standard, camera manual and optimized. I do not have an option to click bt.1886 with mine. I just used the black comp last time I did a cal run.

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post #1675 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

I do not get the option for bt.1886 on mine in the reference tab. I only have display gamma, black comp, camera standard, camera manual and optimized. I do not have an option to click bt.1886 with mine. I just used the black comp last time I did a cal run.

download latest version linked in my sig
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post #1676 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 11:36 AM
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Thank you Zoyd..

Did not even realize I didn't have the most up to date version.

One more quick thing on the new version. Use REC709 75% now instead of just REC709?

Ed

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alamagar View Post

Hi Leondavid, I'm the same guy from spanish forum forodvd. Glad to see you here.

Be aware that BT 1886 doesn't have a target gamma. Instead it calculates each Y value for each IRE% related to max. Y in 100% IRE in order to avoid black crushing on low IRE. You should reach the desired Y indicated in HCFR (row Gamma Y) for each %IRE. You can reach the same result and learn about it in GCD Thread.

Therefore the resulting gamma will not be linear but an ascending curve from low IRE to high IRE.

Hope it helps,
alamagar.
Hello friend, haha​​, nice to see you over here too!
Select bt 1886
After the gamma not give importance to this seteado true value? default boot is 2.22! ok
I to calculate each ire, his gammaY illuminance, illuminance birth ire on 100 right? ok, until then, I understood.
Now, as the illuminance calculation for each ire, starting from 10 to 90, because 100 is the only input that!
So, what is the account you should do? and where they would have to play for the luminance change from 10p for example?
thanks
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post #1678 of 11714 Old 03-25-2013, 02:13 PM
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This question was answered a while back, but it din't seem like they were too sure of the answer, so I'm trying to get clarification.

For profiling a DLP Front Projector (BenQ W1070), should I select refresh or non refresh type?

I've profiled plasmas before using HCFR, but this is my first projector, so not sure.

Thanks.

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post #1679 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I read your display has somewhere between 0.05 - 0.07 cd/m^2 black which is not too bad but BT.1886 would still be best for you if you have a 10 pt. control. If so, match your Y measurements to the Gamma Y values in the gray scale page. If you don't have a 10 pt. then select display gamma, gamma = 2.2 and pick the best gamma preset to match that.
Zoyd hello, do not quite understand the gamma! on my TV, this gamma in 2.2
I'm about to begin calibrating the grayscale! I did a reading and being in bt 1886 HCFR tells me that the gamma is 2.4 refencia! ok, set white balance 2pt!
Now, as I set the gamma and, using 10p, by face ire?? I do not understand how to measure and calculate each gamma ire and? as serious math to account for every ire? and as the gamma value and in 100?
sorry, but I am stuck and do not understand, do not understand how to obtain a gamma curve!
That value would have to start at 10 IRE? IRE 10 would have to end at 2.4 gamma?
thanks Zoyd
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post #1680 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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