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post #1681 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Here is an example, that's the best I can do.


Zoyd thank you very much! Now I could understand better! I hope to achieve! Your example was very clear, I must start playing the 10p and I will be able to achieve! Thanks Zoyd, after I tell you how I was! smile.gif








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post #1682 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 03:27 PM
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Zoyd thank you very much! Now I could understand better! I hope to achieve! Your example was very clear, I must start playing the 10p and I will be able to achieve! Thanks Zoyd, after I tell you how I was! smile.gif
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post #1683 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Here is an example, that's the best I can do.

Zoyd, you should gray-out the Reference Gamma textbox when BT.1886 is selected. Just a suggestion biggrin.gif

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post #1684 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1685 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I know, it's on the list

Is implementing the new argyll code for HCFR which offers more meter support (colormunki smile) and colormunki display calibrate enabled function on your list?

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post #1686 of 11714 Old 03-26-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I know, it's on the list



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Zoyd and notice my grayscale, use white balance to 2p and then, when everything was over, use 10p to correct!
Now if you look at the graph gamma doe, I can not get the gamma curve!
Pongo continuous measure, choose ire eg 10 but seeing as I can go when I change the gammay??
I still do not understand that I have to give value to each ire! not the math I have to do to realize and shape the curve! I still have almost a linear curve!
In balance to 2p, never touch the green.
In the balance sheet at 10p, never touch the green.
I have understood that is not touched.
Still, even so, for more you play, where I can not see at the time, what I'm doing! anyway, not the fact that I have to take, because what's the reference value I have to do the math, I do not understand! I hope you can help me!
And finally, I could see now how best to ICE! Before I could not, there was no way for him to play all over, not modified coordinates!
The issue goes to the blue, no way to move it! is impossible! I was told that Samsung always had that problem with the blue! then with the other colors, was pretty good, although there could improve a little saturation! touch no more, because I want to sort out the gamma curve, is my big problem-
I hope you or someone can give me a hand! thanks
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post #1687 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

because I want to sort out the gamma curve, is my big problem-
I hope you or someone can give me a hand! thanks

At each IRE:

To reduce Y: reduce R, reduce G, reduce B, equal amounts
To increase Y: increase R, increase G, increase B, equal amounts


CIE diagram looks as good as you can do with your display.
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post #1688 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterLewis View Post

Is implementing the new argyll code for HCFR which offers more meter support (colormunki smile) and colormunki display calibrate enabled function on your list?

I have it on the list to look at, no promises though.
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post #1689 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

At each IRE:

To reduce Y: reduce R, reduce G, reduce B, equal amounts
To increase Y: increase R, increase G, increase B, equal amounts


CIE diagram looks as good as you can do with your display.
Zoyd Ok, thanks! Up there, I understand! I do not understand, is that value is for each IRE gammay??
Me first, I measure the gray scale! see all settings! ok, then I can see when I'm playing live the 10s, to the value gammay?
What is the mathematical mind I have to do for each ire and so to get the gammay? that's what I do not get to change my curve linear gamma curve to pass gammay!
Thanks
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post #1690 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 09:47 AM
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I believe what Zoyd is saying is if you look at your chart above, at say 60 IRE. Your Y value is above the Gamma Y value. You want them to be the same. So in that case, you would take away 1 red, 1 green, and 1 blue in your 10 point at the 60 IRE. Then see if that was enough. no matter how much it will take, subtract out the same from all three colors in the 10 point at 60 IRE and that will bring the Y and Gamma Y in line and close to the same number. This will also then change your gamma at that 60 IRE and should move it closer to 2.22

If I am wrong, please Zoyd, correct me. I think that is right though.
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post #1691 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 10:05 AM
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[quote name="zoyd" url="/t/1393853/fork-of-hcfr-started-whats-needed/1530#post_23034195

There is a new build of 3.0.4.2

Modifications as of 3/3/2013

- added option to toggle off show saturation targets
- added delta luma row to saturation charts
- fixed manual dvd message bug when black patch added
- fixed error in calculation of magenta/cyan saturation targets[/quote]

Greats !

But i have one thing to say : it's very long to measure with a videoprojector and the result are not very better . With the 3.0.4.0 not . It's possible to leave free the latency time ?

Thanks a lot and very good job smile.gif
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post #1692 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 10:08 AM
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And the possible to load matrice conversion too like in the 3.0.4.0 version .

I finished biggrin.gif
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post #1693 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

I believe what Zoyd is saying is if you look at your chart above, at say 60 IRE. Your Y value is above the Gamma Y value. You want them to be the same. So in that case, you would take away 1 red, 1 green, and 1 blue in your 10 point at the 60 IRE. Then see if that was enough. no matter how much it will take, subtract out the same from all three colors in the 10 point at 60 IRE and that will bring the Y and Gamma Y in line and close to the same number. This will also then change your gamma at that 60 IRE and should move it closer to 2.22

If I am wrong, please Zoyd, correct me. I think that is right though.
Now if I understood! thank you! what happened is that there and watched the ire and did not know that and should be equal to the gammay! Now when I see the example closes zoid me everything! thank you very much
I will start adjusting back to 10p! and see if now better gamma achievement! I am sure that blue is the ICD can not be corrected! I try to do but does not respond to any controls.
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post #1694 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Mcgayver View Post

And the possible to load matrice conversion too like in the 3.0.4.0 version .

I finished biggrin.gif
Mc, you are abusing biggrin.gif
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post #1695 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 11:53 AM
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And i'm not sorry ! biggrin.gif

Another idea : not selecting by défault this :

hcfr.jpg

If it's on , the gamut reference is the gamut of the projector or the TV and not the CIE reference . So it's wrong . I had see it with GeorgesG there's a long time ago and he don't want to modify it .

It's a big mistake !
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post #1696 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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post #1697 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 12:47 PM
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OK . Cool !

And for that :
Quote:
It's possible to leave free the latency time ?

I think it's very very very important , i think .
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post #1698 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I have it on the list to look at, no promises though.


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Thanks Zoyd! Now I understand, at last! what happens is that I find it hard the English is not very good my English.
In the third picture, is a program error, right? because by putting bt 1886, does not put the gamma reference if not this default.
If I'm wrong, please let me know.
If I put in reference 2.4, the yellow line would be next to that white line, so as I say, it is an error and the program, but no matter what, and I'm following the gamma curve bt 1886.
Now I'll see if I can fix the gamut little and then I will make a review of all, to make it your best.
Although the big problem with the colors in the CIE, I have it in the blue, something wrong product samsung.
Thanks friend.
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post #1699 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 02:03 PM
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I have problem with my Sansung LED TV too : the blue on the white balance is very hight (65 of Delta E) but the picture are good . Le i1D3 can't meseare correctly my TV .
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post #1700 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 05:57 PM
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I have a question about the bt 1886 gamma. Here is a night calibration I did yesterday. I was hoping for around 2.32 or 2.33 gamma, so that looks good.
What I am wondering is the luminance chart. If we are trying to hit the bt 1886 gamma, does the luminance chart not work like it should. How would I raise the luminance without sacrificing my gamma of 2.33? Is there some other way to raise it besides using the 10 point white balance? That would change my gamma to not follow the curve.

Also another quick thing. How do we go for a lower gamma like 2.25 for a daylight setting? Is the only way changing gamma on TV. The night calibration one I used 2.4 on tv, so for day wanting 2.25 I would need to set tv gamma to 2.2 or 1.9 and see which one is closest?

Thanks for any answers...

Night Expert 2 3-26-13.zip 50k .zip file
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File Type: zip Night Expert 2 3-26-13.zip (50.0 KB, 107 views)

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post #1701 of 11714 Old 03-27-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

I have a question about the bt 1886 gamma. Here is a night calibration I did yesterday. I was hoping for around 2.32 or 2.33 gamma, so that looks good.
What I am wondering is the luminance chart. If we are trying to hit the bt 1886 gamma, does the luminance chart not work like it should. How would I raise the luminance without sacrificing my gamma of 2.33? Is there some other way to raise it besides using the 10 point white balance? That would change my gamma to not follow the curve.

Also another quick thing. How do we go for a lower gamma like 2.25 for a daylight setting? Is the only way changing gamma on TV. The night calibration one I used 2.4 on tv, so for day wanting 2.25 I would need to set tv gamma to 2.2 or 1.9 and see which one is closest?

Thanks for any answers...

Night Expert 2 3-26-13.zip 50k .zip file
the graph of luminance, using the BT 1886, does not work well! because it shows the reference luminance prefencias box! We are not interpreted bt 1886! bt if you take 1886 and put in refencia 2.33 that night is your gamma, luminance the graph you'd be good! if used bt 1886, we must not give importance to this chart luminance, at least until a future release.
Calibration is my night, my first calibration my TV is a LED ES7000!
Color Measures1.zip 32k .zip file
If you look at my gamma, putting bt 1886, I arrived as a reference reach 2.4!!
When adjusting the grayscale gamma 10p for, try to get as close to it bt gammay 1886!!
I do not understand, is that if you look my chart of the gamma, you will see that leaves a rather linear gamma curve! and I do not understand why!
What is not, because to put input bt 1886, I get that corresponds to a gamma 2.4!!
It means that if I make a calibration for the day, is also going to be 2.4?
I noticed your calibration and you get default bt 1886 2.33! and i get my default 2.4! That suits me, but do not understand why input is 2.4!
It is for my TV, I should do? Gamma in the TV menu is in 2.2
Thank you all.
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File Type: zip Color Measures1.zip (31.8 KB, 98 views)
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post #1702 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

I have a question about the bt 1886 gamma. Here is a night calibration I did yesterday. I was hoping for around 2.32 or 2.33 gamma, so that looks good.
What I am wondering is the luminance chart. If we are trying to hit the bt 1886 gamma, does the luminance chart not work like it should. How would I raise the luminance without sacrificing my gamma of 2.33? Is there some other way to raise it besides using the 10 point white balance? That would change my gamma to not follow the curve.

Also another quick thing. How do we go for a lower gamma like 2.25 for a daylight setting? Is the only way changing gamma on TV. The night calibration one I used 2.4 on tv, so for day wanting 2.25 I would need to set tv gamma to 2.2 or 1.9 and see which one is closest?

Thanks for any answers...

I think you and Leondavid are confused by what BT.1886 means. This means the gamma is not constant when you change stimulus levels You can have a flat gamma = 2.2, 2.3, etc. OR you can match the BT.1886 function, but not both. When you check the BT.1886 box in references you will see that the target curve is not flat, that is your target, not 2.2. If you want a night mode BT.1886, drop the contrast to your night mode peak white setting and you will get another curve as your target.
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post #1703 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

I think you and Leondavid are confused by what BT.1886 means. This means the gamma is not constant when you change stimulus levels You can have a flat gamma = 2.2, 2.3, etc. OR you can match the BT.1886 function, but not both. When you check the BT.1886 box in references you will see that the target curve is not flat, that is your target, not 2.2. If you want a night mode BT.1886, drop the contrast to your night mode peak white setting and you will get another curve as your target.
Zoyd thanks! Now I look good, because maybe, having marked bt 1886, marking I gamma curve bt 1886 to follow! get a flat gamma reference!
And not because it goes to follow a flat curve, when I have marked bt 1886!!
X that if you look my calibration, I get a gamma reference flat, at 2.4
Thanks Zoyd
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post #1704 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 10:37 AM
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Zoyd,

I am able to follow the bt 1886 gamma graph fairly well and understand that is the curve for my black and white level too run at. Just wasn't sure then if we put any stock in the luminance chart at all? I am definitely showing that I am well below the curve on luminance even though the gamma curve is followed fairly well. I see no compromise between the 2 charts on my set. I can go by bt 1886 gamma and be done, or I can go by the luminance chart and be done. But either way, one or the other is completely off. So at this point I am just going by the gamma graph and forgetting luminance chart. I have no idea how to raise the middle of the luminance chart without killing the gamma curve.

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post #1705 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

Zoyd,

I am able to follow the bt 1886 gamma graph fairly well and understand that is the curve for my black and white level too run at. Just wasn't sure then if we put any stock in the luminance chart at all? I am definitely showing that I am well below the curve on luminance even though the gamma curve is followed fairly well. I see no compromise between the 2 charts on my set. I can go by bt 1886 gamma and be done, or I can go by the luminance chart and be done. But either way, one or the other is completely off. So at this point I am just going by the gamma graph and forgetting luminance chart. I have no idea how to raise the middle of the luminance chart without killing the gamma curve.
I repeat, using bt 1886, the graph of luminance, never going to look good! is of no importance in the case of using bt 1886!
Only good if not used bt 1886!
It is a program error that does not show the luminance bt 1886 in the graph.
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post #1706 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eghill1125 View Post

So at this point I am just going by the gamma graph and forgetting luminance chart. I have no idea how to raise the middle of the luminance chart without killing the gamma curve.
You can't because the two are inextricably linked. The gamma graph is the derivative of the luminance curve, ie gamma is the accelerationvelocity of luminance. Just use the gamma graph and the Y targets in the datatable on the main screen and you are fine. The scale of the luminance chart is so zoomed out that it isnt very useful anyway.
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post #1707 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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post #1708 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the current version of the program to gray out the Reference Gamma box when BT.1886 is selected. Hopefully that will prevent some future confusions.
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post #1709 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leondavid View Post

I repeat, using bt 1886, the graph of luminance, never going to look good! is of no importance in the case of using bt 1886!
Only good if not used bt 1886!
It is a program error that does not show the luminance bt 1886 in the graph.

There is no program error, if you select BT.1886, that is the white curve. The yellow curve is the measurement and the blue curve is average measured gamma, not the target. If you have a flat gamma the average might lie on top of the measured, if you have a BT.1886 curve the average will never lie on top of the measured. The luminance curve is not very useful, use the gamma curve to evaluate your results.
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post #1710 of 11714 Old 03-28-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

There is no program error, if you select BT.1886, that is the white curve. The yellow curve is the measurement and the blue curve is average measured gamma, not the target. If you have a flat gamma the average might lie on top of the measured, if you have a BT.1886 curve the average will never lie on top of the measured. The luminance curve is not very useful, use the gamma curve to evaluate your results.
ok, thanks Zoyd! I will download the new version so you added recently!
And I will continue testing other calibrations, this world is all this true?
When I go to the gamma graph, which is the third, and as I approached I gammay ires in all, I left the flat gamma and 2.4!
And if I go to the Figure 2, which is the luminance, that's where I say get the error! because that interprets graphic in 2.22 am measuring default gamma and luminance for that gamma brand, not the way bt 1886!
Why I said, I graphic that does not give importance only to that of gamma.
Now I have to do, because I get a reference to follow a gamma curve! leave no wonder!
Seguire calibrating and watching to do.
Thanks for everything, as always!
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