TiVo to Philips DVDR3576H/37 recording experience - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 33 Old 09-26-2008, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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In a previous post, I asked for advice on a DVD recorder to replace my twice failed Samsung machine. The main purpose being to dump recordings from my TiVo to DVD. The advice from all who responded was the Philips DVDR3576H/37.
So, as promised, I am giving a real life experience of the Philips DVDR3576H/37 in regards to dubbing video from TiVo.
The machine arrived late yesterday and as soon as I had time I hooked it up with S-Video in from the TiVo and HDMI out to our Sharp Aquos LCD. The initial attempt at a direct dub from the TiVo to DVD burner was a complete bust. I got the dreaded "Cannot record this program to +VR mode". Looking up this error in the manual told me exactly what I feared. The video (a non-commercial documentary) was a "copy once" format. So I freaked. I had just spent $300 on a machine to dump my TiVo recordings to DVD and this machine wouldn't do the job. Since NewEgg has an exchange only policy for such things I was stuck with a piece of hardware that wasn't currently very useful to me. Of course once we move out of the country and I have to give up my TiVo, it is a reasonable replacement.
After taking a couple of deep breaths I started thinking about the possibility of a work around. I pulled out a DVD-RW so I could erase any failures and do some temporary testing. I then recorded about 5 minutes of the same program to the hard drive. Then I hit the direct dubbing button and much to my amazement and delight, the machine recorded the 5 minute sample to DVD without any problems or error messages. I then erased the disk and went through the same process with material from a different channel source. Same result. So I set up a full timer recording, TiVo to Philips HD and went to bed.
This morning, I checked the recording on the HD, and it was fine and complete. I then edited out the trailing material from the end of the program and hit the direct dub button. I chose high speed dubbing and about 20min later the 90min program was dubbed to DVD.
So, in conclusion, I don't understand the mechanics of why TiVo to DVD is prohibited but TiVo to HD to DVD is OK, but I'm both happy and relieved. And truth be told, it's much easier to edit the material on the HD than it was to edit it on DVD-RW in VR mode on the garbage Samsung recorder.
** Note. This experience is with a DirectTV Hughes TiVo-2. As to other TiVo boxes, your experience may be different.
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post #2 of 33 Old 09-27-2008, 09:32 AM
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Thanks for the excellent report. I'll be linking to this post from the Sticky help file for anyone else having a problem with TIVO/DirecTV > DVD copy problems!

(Recording to the HDD is the "safest" way to go anyway.)
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post #3 of 33 Old 09-27-2008, 10:29 PM
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I'm not so sure, subeluvr. Seems to me if you were recording an old VHS tape to a DVD, you'd be able to play the recording directly to the DVD burner. This is much the same thing, only the original recording is on a TiVo rather than a video tape.

I'm just surprised the thing recorded to the Philips' hard drive when it already refused to record it to DVD. More surprised that it then WOULD make a DVD once it had the recording on board.
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post #4 of 33 Old 10-25-2008, 08:45 AM
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I bought this DVDR based on positive reviews. I also want to be able to record my DirecTV/Tivo movies from HBO/SHO/STRZ to watch later. I tried copying a recent movie to HDD and that works, but the dubbing option is disabled. For some titles, there is apparently no way to get a DVD-R copy. If I'm missing something, I'd like to know more. Thanks.
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post #5 of 33 Old 10-25-2008, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Jupiter View Post

I bought this DVDR based on positive reviews. I also want to be able to record my DirecTV/Tivo movies from HBO/SHO/STRZ to watch later. I tried copying a recent movie to HDD and that works, but the dubbing option is disabled. For some titles, there is apparently no way to get a DVD-R copy. If I'm missing something, I'd like to know more. Thanks.

The shows prob. have copy-once (CO) protection in them. Have you first tried a -RW disc like raincat above did... theoretically shouldn't work since the 3576 can't format -RW for VR-mode, but -RW discs did work somehow for raincat?

There've been lots of reports lately about programs containing CO-protection, and some or many of those have found the CO flag in COMMERCIALS! Your HBO/SHO/STRZ shows might have full-program CO if they don't have commercials, or they might have other nonmovie stuff like promos, etc. w/CO protection in them? (Are you paying extra for those premium channels in your monthly sub. fee, or are they PPV or on-demand, i.e., pay-by-view?)

If they DO have nonmovie stuff, you could try editing out that stuff, being careful to delete ALL the nonmovie parts incl. fades to/from black, then try to dub again to a -R... for a good test, remove more than you think at each nonmovie section to be sure... your edit points can move up to 14 frames with a high-speed dub?
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post #6 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

The shows prob. have copy-once (CO) protection in them. Have you first tried a -RW disc like raincat above did...

Yes, I tried to record from Tivo to an RW disc and that also got the error. Multiple movie titles from HBO and STRZ have failed. I have not tried a SHO title yet, but I have no hopes that any premium channel can be off-loaded to DVD-R. No problems (yet?) recording a old movie from TCM (part of basic package).

I pay an extra $33 a month to DirecTV for the 3 premium movie channels. The value of that subscription has dropped significantly!
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post #7 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Jupiter View Post

Yes, I tried to record from Tivo to an RW disc and that also got the error. Multiple movie titles from HBO and STRZ have failed. I have not tried a SHO title yet, but I have no hopes that any premium channel can be off-loaded to DVD-R. No problems (yet?) recording a old movie from TCM (part of basic package).

I pay an extra $33 a month to DirecTV for the 3 premium movie channels. The value of that subscription has dropped significantly!

Someone with a single-disc recorder just reported success recording a CO program using a +RW disc, so that might be something to try IF you've got one around... theoretically still shouldn't work so I wouldn't buy more than 1 just for a test!

There are "filters" that will strip protection, including this converter that Nextoo tested and its additional advantage is that it converts Component output from your box to S-Video for the recorder, but maintains full 16:9 aspect ratio.
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post #8 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 09:11 AM
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Bob, I think your CP problem is the do not copy issue and has been around for some time, mostly from pay channels like HBO etc. This is a different issue than the copy once issue. I'm sure any DVDR would exhibit the same problem. As Wajo said a (relatively) cheap filter should easily fix your problem and would have the added benefit of being able to backup your DVDs.
I wouldn't be without one(or actually more than one)
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post #9 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 12:17 PM
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Thanks wajo & jjeff! Seems the cost of my Philips DVDR3576H/37 just went up about $130. If the "DP-X7000" works as advertised, I will be happy.
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post #10 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 01:40 PM
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The DP-X7000 will not allow you to set the widescreen flag, though. If you want that, get the Video Filter:

http://home.cfl.rr.com/filter/

(I see it's now "High Definition compatible", too. Just what that means, I'm not sure.)
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post #11 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 01:54 PM
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I think??? they mean it can be inserted in the component circuit which could be HD.
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post #12 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 02:05 PM
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So then I'm thinking that would answer your question about using one of these to record Blu-ray (maybe)? And you could actually copy one to a Blu-ray burner in full HD (or TV broadcasts, too)? It does say in 1080i.

I guess that might be worth the extra cost, then.

Another thing - does "setting the widescreen flag" mean that you will be able to use the VF to record to something other than DVD-RAM in widescreen? I never was quite sure about the precise meaning of the term "setting the widescreen flag", but I kind of assumed that's what it meant (you can tell I'm no great expert on this stuff).
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post #13 of 33 Old 10-26-2008, 02:27 PM
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The key would be that you needed a device that could record HD AND have component inputs. I don't think they're many of those things around. I think the Geffen HD recorder has component inputs but I wouldn't touch one of those things and of course some DVDRs have component inputs but they don't record HD. I think their might also be some PC devices that have component inputs(Hupp. something or another comes to mind) sorry I don't follow PC devices much.
AFA the flag I think the only advantage to having that set would be if you played that recording on a 4:3 TV. Without the flag playing that recording on a 4:3 TV would result in a picture where the whole 16:9 image is crammed into the 4:3 frame, IOW tall and skinny people
Even if the flag is not set you'll still get the 16:9 recording and it will look just fine on a 16:9 display.
Note I'm no expert either but I think I've got it straight, I'm open to corrections though
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post #14 of 33 Old 10-27-2008, 05:59 AM
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I have been very happy with the DP-X7000 and the 5000 and the CT-200.
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post #15 of 33 Old 10-27-2008, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I think the Geffen HD recorder has component inputs but I wouldn't touch one of those things and of course some DVDRs have component inputs but they don't record HD.

No, I don't have $1000.00 to piss away on an 80GB recorder, either.

Do ya' think if I were to use The Video Filter to record Blu-ray downscaled to 480i through my Sony's component inputs it would look a lot better than a 480i disc normally would? I mean remarkably better?

(Not that I'm gonna go out and buy a Video Filter and Blu-ray player and start buying or renting Blu-ray discs, but I'm just wondering, for the sake of discussion and knowledge to everyone else here.)
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post #16 of 33 Old 10-27-2008, 01:54 PM
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I doubt it would look better than a commercial DVD. For one think commercial DVDs are usually DL and would have a higher bit rate than you could probably use. Commercial discs would also have true VBR.
Now I suppose if one was to use one of the CP devices on the component output of a BR player and feed that into a computer with component inputs and then burn it to a standard DVD on one of the HD on DVD formats, now that's bound to look better than a commercial DVD. Probably close to the BR original although you'd need a BR or HD DVD player to play it back. It is a interesting idea though
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post #17 of 33 Old 10-27-2008, 11:34 PM
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Well, if I copy a standard def DVD using the CT-200, there is a tiny loss in sharpness and detail - but it's there if you look. I was just wondering if copying from a Blu-Ray disc would make up for that, and maybe then some.

(I normally only copy a CP'd disc to RAM to keep the widescreen mode - I've never actually tried it through component to the Sony, because the CT-200 doesn't have that capability.)
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post #18 of 33 Old 10-28-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Jupiter View Post

Yes, I tried to record from Tivo to an RW disc and that also got the error. Multiple movie titles from HBO and STRZ have failed. I have not tried a SHO title yet, but I have no hopes that any premium channel can be off-loaded to DVD-R. No problems (yet?) recording a old movie from TCM (part of basic package).

Just an update for anyone with DirecTV considering the Philips DVDR3576H/37: it's not just the premium movie channels that have the copy protection. I just recorded a movie on ABCF because I want to edit out the commercials before watching it. Like the HBO and STRZ titles that I tried before, this title also appears on the list with dubbing disabled.

I can't wait to receive and try out the filter. I'm glad to read from joed32 that he is happy with the DP-X7000
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post #19 of 33 Old 10-28-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Jupiter View Post

Like the HBO and STRZ titles that I tried before, this title also appears on the list with dubbing disabled.

I thought your problem with trying to record HBO etc. was that the 3576 would not let you record it period? Was it recording to HDD and then just not letting you dub it to DVD? That's a different problem the copy once flag, the other flag is the "do not copy" flag.
I believe the filter should remove both flags but I'm not as positive about the "copy once" flag.
The copy once flag sure seems to be popping up a lot lately, in regards to the 3576 anyway.
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post #20 of 33 Old 10-28-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I thought your problem with trying to record HBO etc. was that the 3576 would not let you record it period? Was it recording to HDD and then just not letting you dub it to DVD? That's a different problem the copy once flag, the other flag is the "do not copy" flag.
I believe the filter should remove both flags but I'm not as positive about the "copy once" flag.
The copy once flag sure seems to be popping up a lot lately, in regards to the 3576 anyway.

I've only had the 3576 since Friday, so my experience is limited, but initial tests were SHO/HBO directly to DVD-R which the unit refuses to do, but so far, everything (from Tivo) will copy to HDD. If the recording to DVD-R is blocked, then the dubbing to DVD-R from HDD is also blocked.

I have no way of knowing what flags are present in the signals. Whatever they are, they must be fairly new because my old Panasonic (a couple years old) had no problem recording from Tivo, but it would disallow a commercial DVD and some VHS tapes.
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post #21 of 33 Old 10-28-2008, 11:57 AM
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OK then it sounds like your problem is definitely the "copy once" flag. Not sure if you've been following the 3575/6 thread but it seems like more and more people are getting that flag which was pretty much unheard of 6 months ago. Someone else with a Panny also noted that the Panny didn't have the problem and it's been questioned whether the flag is legitimate or just an issue the way the Philips sees the signal. It's kind of a ongoing question right now. It will be interesting to see if the filter successfully removes the flag for you. I don't think anyone has tried it yet, but I would think?? it should.
Sorry I couldn't be more sure but originally I thought your problem was related to the "do not copy" flag.
I'm no expert on the flags either but I sure hope the filter takes care of it for you. For sure the filter will allow you to backup your DVDs but you will need a seperate DVD player to feed the line input on your Philips. Their is no way to insert the filter between the internal DVD drive and the HDD.
Keep us posted on how it turns out, I wish you luck.
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post #22 of 33 Old 10-29-2008, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Jupiter View Post

I've only had the 3576 since Friday, so my experience is limited, but initial tests were SHO/HBO directly to DVD-R which the unit refuses to do, but so far, everything (from Tivo) will copy to HDD. If the recording to DVD-R is blocked, then the dubbing to DVD-R from HDD is also blocked.

I have no way of knowing what flags are present in the signals. Whatever they are, they must be fairly new because my old Panasonic (a couple years old) had no problem recording from Tivo, but it would disallow a commercial DVD and some VHS tapes.

After you get your filter let us know how everything turns out.
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post #23 of 33 Old 10-29-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

After you get your filter let us know how everything turns out.

I will do that, joed32.

Something new I found out last night: that movie on ABCF channel that went to HDD with the copy protect attribute was changed to a 'NEW' status after I deleted out the commercials and dubbing was allowed. I have not had time to test that on a HBO/SHO/STRZ title, but those usually don't need more than a small snip from the end when running time is less than a one-touch 30-minute interval.
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post #24 of 33 Old 10-29-2008, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob in Jupiter View Post

I will do that, joed32.

Something new I found out last night: that movie on ABCF channel that went to HDD with the copy protect attribute was changed to a 'NEW' status after I deleted out the commercials and dubbing was allowed. I have not had time to test that on a HBO/SHO/STRZ title, but those usually don't need more than a small snip from the end when running time is less than a one-touch 30-minute interval.

There are several threads here and in other forums with posts from people finding copy-once protection in the COMMERCIALS, most starting in Sep this year. It is not specific to any brand or model... reports come from many different brands, both single-disc and HDD recorders. Even JVC engineering is "aware of the problem" and acknowledge many shows are having copy-protected commercials, for some odd reason... probably someone trying to "control" what we watch, etc.?

You're doing the correct thing in cutting the commercials so the program can be copied to disc.
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post #25 of 33 Old 10-29-2008, 04:30 PM
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This makes me slightly nervous in that it sounds like an opening salvo. [wild_speculation]First an attempt to content flag commercials with an existing broadcast flag, then with a "mandator-watch" content flag, soon to become available.[/wild_speculation] If commercials become non-skipable, one of the most valuble aspects of owning a DVR will go away.

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post #26 of 33 Old 10-30-2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Well, if I copy a standard def DVD using the CT-200, there is a tiny loss in sharpness and detail - but it's there if you look. I was just wondering if copying from a Blu-Ray disc would make up for that, and maybe then some.

My favorite is Grex. http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html. I see no video degradations with it.
Actually it does not matter how good your Digital video media is. As long as we are talking about analog video recorders the quality is in digital to video conversion. You can have a blue ray player but if video sync separator or AGC block of your DVD recorder is not good you will have bad video. And even if it is ideal you still could not see any difference in recording if it were recorder from regular DVD or blue ray.
And regarding HD and all this ******** to claim HD compatibility in devices working with analog video. It's a nonsense. Tell me about recorder capable to record real HD ? It must be blue ray recorder with HDMI input !!! All we have today is buzz words. The only working HD part today is TV and blue ray players and HD cable boxes. All the rest is still old good analog video.
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post #27 of 33 Old 10-31-2008, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joed32 View Post

After you get your filter let us know how everything turns out.

I received the DPX-7000 "Video Stabilizer / Enhancer" today. As luck would have it, my DirecTV dish or multi-switch bit the dust and I have to wait until Wednesday to get it repaired.

I have one HBO movie sitting on Tivo and I did a recording to the Philips DVDR3576H/37 HDD. It's there with a 'NEW' status vs. the slash through copy icon meaning copy protected, so I think that 'little' investment will pay off. I've seen it elsewhere on the web for much more, but I got it for $129.99+$13.74 UPS shipping from www.world-import.com. The Grex, that znatok likes is a good deal less expensive (about $90) and I might well have ordered that one had I taken more time to research options.

Bottom line for me, DPX-7000 works as advertised and I did not notice any degredation in the picture quality using the 'normal' mode. I have not had time to test the other modes, but perhaps on a different signal source, it might make a difference. I'll post again if my experience changes with more use.
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post #28 of 33 Old 11-08-2008, 10:00 PM
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Now that you have your DirecTV signal back, Bob in Jupiter, are you still happy with the performance of your DP-X7000? Can you tell us how it's going when you record to DVD? Any problems? Do you have wide screen or 4:3? I'm asking because DirecTV started blocking its signal last week in our area. I can record to my DirecTV receiver's hard drive, but I get a copy protected warning when I try to record the signal to my Panasonic 75 DVR. I am looking at the DP-X7000 and the Video Filter (which seems to not have a problem with wide screen vs. 4:3 mode -- I don't quite understand what), both stabilizers recommended on this forum. Thanks for any real-world advice.
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post #29 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by kay-AVS View Post

...DirecTV started blocking its signal last week in our area. I can record to my DirecTV receiver's hard drive, but I get a copy protected warning when I try to record the signal to my Panasonic 75 DVR...

This is interestng, because I haven't heard about this anywhere else. I haven't tried to record from DirecTV since last Monday, so I am not really up-to-date. Is this just SOME shows on SOME channels, or is it everything? There was a new software download last week Friday morning, is that when you noticed that the content protection started? What model DVR do you have?

Luke

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post #30 of 33 Old 11-10-2008, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kay-AVS View Post

Now that you have your DirecTV signal back, Bob in Jupiter, are you still happy with the performance of your DP-X7000? Can you tell us how it's going when you record to DVD? Any problems? Do you have wide screen or 4:3? I'm asking because DirecTV started blocking its signal last week in our area. I can record to my DirecTV receiver's hard drive, but I get a copy protected warning when I try to record the signal to my Panasonic 75 DVR. I am looking at the DP-X7000 and the Video Filter (which seems to not have a problem with wide screen vs. 4:3 mode -- I don't quite understand what), both stabilizers recommended on this forum. Thanks for any real-world advice.

I am still happy with the DP-X7000. I have only used it so far with input from DirecTV Tivo DVR and the Philips DVDR3576H/37 has not since refused to record directly to DVD-R nor has a dub from HDD been prevented for any title recorded through the DP-X7000.

I'm waiting for my "big screen" (rear projection) analog set to die before jumping on the HD bandwagon, so I am limited to 4:3 at this time
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