A Moment of 'Silence' for Verbatim? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
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A Moment of 'Silence' for Verbatim?

Verbatim sold to CMC

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This month Mitsubishi Chemical Corp. decided to sell its legendary Verbatim business unit to CMC Magnetics.
...

It is unclear whether CMC intends to get these businesses and keep them running.
...

Mitsubishi Chemical no longer sees new opportunities with CD/DVD/Blu-ray media, which is why it is selling not only the brand, but all of the related assets.

Mitsubishi is not the only company to exit optical disc media in the recent years. Such legendary names as Taiyo Yuden, TDK, Maxell, Fujifilm, BASF, and other decided to withdraw from this business in the last ~10 years.
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post #2 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 07:34 AM
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Well, that's a definite R.I.P. for the last quality manufacturer.
The funai's are taking over the world.
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post #3 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
Well, that's a definite R.I.P. for the last quality manufacturer.
The funai's are taking over the world.
Here is the article with this excerpt first:

"CMC has manufactured Verbatim-branded optical media for a while now using Verbatim’s technologies, so change of ownership is not expected to result in change of quality."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14597...rom-mitsubishi

And another:

"However, CMC has already been producing CDs with the Verbatim logo beforehand, so the change of ownership of the company will not affect the quality of its product, and may even lead to a price reduction of Blu-ray Disc."

https://www.elinfor.com/news/the-opt...ompany-p-11150

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post #4 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 01:43 PM
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THE BEST blank media ever produced. Back in the day when people did that "stuff", they were always perfect. Other big names at the time were like 50/50.
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post #5 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 01:50 PM
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F

I still have some blanks which are at least 10 years old.

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THE BEST blank media ever produced. Back in the day when people did that "stuff", they were always perfect. Other big names at the time were like 50/50.
Back in the day?
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post #6 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
F

I still have some blanks which are at least 10 years old.



Back in the day?
Maybe 10 years to me is back in the day. Yes, hundreds of them around here. Could always RW and they worked fine. I use old Memorex hanging from lines around my vegetable gardens so they can spin in the breeze. Birds and critters hate them. Better than a pie tin
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post #7 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 02:36 PM
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While you can still get blank DVDs online at places like Amazon, it's getting harder and harder to find a decent selection B&M. Stores like Target, W/M, Office Depot/Max basically just sell the crap, CMC bottom line stuff like Verbatim Life, Memorex and such. My last B&M to find quality DVDs(AZO Verbs and even the good AZO Verb DLs) was Microcenter and even MC has shrunk their DVD isle to a fraction of what it once was. And DVDs haven't been replaced by BDs, both are just a dwindling supply.
I just received a spindle of the good AZO Verbs from Amazon and while still a decent price($25/100) I haven't seen a sale like they used to do of a 100 spindle for $20 or even less in a very long time
I really don't see CMCs acquisition of the Verbatim name as a price saving measure for the consumer, my guess is now that they've basically got the monopoly the price will be theirs to set I mean if you want to continue to burn DVDs you really haven't got much of a choice.......
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post #8 of 53 Old 07-09-2019, 04:43 PM
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^^^ @jjeff
Luckily Canada is a bit behind the US as I can usually get a 50 pack of AZO for $12 CDN at my corner drugstore. April 2019 post Although the sale is not on today.
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post #9 of 53 Old 07-10-2019, 04:29 AM
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post #10 of 53 Old 07-10-2019, 10:14 AM
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Wow, been a long time since I've dropped by here at AVS.... I'm not surprised about CMC buying the Verbatim name outright. This just mirrors the way things went in the cassette tape business. The big brand names started OEM'ing out their production, then eventually just started leasing the name. Toward the end, the Maxell UR, Sony HF, and TDK D tapes on the shelves were all made in the same factory in Indonesia.



Sad to see recordable DVDs (and CDs, for that matter) go this way. The format has been good to me, and I still burn several discs a week. Compact, easy to store, and I'm not at the mercy of HDD failures or my streaming service losing its contract to run my favorite programs, etc.


Verbatim DVD-R/-RW have been kind of tricky to navigate for a while, the budget-line stuff being CMC (or similar?) dreck for quite a while. The last Verbs I bought were AZO 16x DVD-R. So far, all have been fine.


I laid in a big stock of Taiyo Yuden blanks when CMC took them over. I don't plan on buying any more recordable optical media. The last stuff I did buy was some MediaPro Premium CD-R from Media Supply. I suspect (though have no concrete proof) they're made by CMC. I don't use them for critical recordings, but I have to say I haven't had a problem with the 100 or so I've burned thus far.


Recordable media have had a great run - and I think there's still a place for them - but the majority of consumers are going for video and audio streaming.
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post #11 of 53 Old 07-10-2019, 02:27 PM
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Yes those are the real deal.......about 4x the price I paid and probably double what I'd like to pay, but very good media none the less
As long as I can still get Verbatim AZOs from Amazon in the current $25 price range shipped and as long as I get decent burns with them, that will be my standard discs.
Truthfully I got near perfect burns with the regular CMC made Verb Life's in my PCs but for my standalone burners I prefer the AZOs. Besides at Amazon prices the Life discs are basically the same price as AZOs, often times more The last Lifes I got were 100/$17 + tax at MicroCenter, not that cheap anymore

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post #12 of 53 Old 07-10-2019, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
Yes those are the real deal.......about 4x the price I paid and probably double what I'd like to pay, but very good media none the less
As long as I can still get Verbatim AZOs . . . the regular CMC made Verb Life's in my PCs but for my standalone burners I prefer the AZOs.
@jjeff
So what are these Verbatim Data Life Plus disks? Are these good ones or the low-quality "budget" media. They are certainly not priced as budget media.

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post #13 of 53 Old 07-11-2019, 03:43 AM
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I don't know why Verbatim did such a thing! but their Data Life Plus line is actually their top of the line discs, not to be confused by their regular "Life" series which is their bottom of the line budged(CMC made) series.
Life-bottom of the line https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-DVD-...%2C162&sr=8-23
AZO series-very good standard DVDs https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-DVD-...s%2C162&sr=8-3
Data Life + top of the line(which I personally have never used nor seen in person)
https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-DVD-...%2C162&sr=8-15
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post #14 of 53 Old 07-11-2019, 04:19 AM
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post #15 of 53 Old 07-11-2019, 05:05 AM
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Oh damn! And here I was upset when Pioneer stopped making DVD-Rs.
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post #16 of 53 Old 07-11-2019, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkeldo View Post
Here is the article with this excerpt first:

"CMC has manufactured Verbatim-branded optical media for a while now using Verbatim’s technologies, so change of ownership is not expected to result in change of quality."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14597...rom-mitsubishi

And another:

"However, CMC has already been producing CDs with the Verbatim logo beforehand, so the change of ownership of the company will not affect the quality of its product, and may even lead to a price reduction of Blu-ray Disc."

https://www.elinfor.com/news/the-opt...ompany-p-11150

I would second that..I've been buying Verbatim for ages.. Didn't know it was sold, but they still continue to be the best for me. Tried other brands, and although non are 100% prefect, (you get a few dud), the least i've had is Verbatim. Even Memorex, and TDK, or "Generic" types, i've gone through an at least 25% of 50-spindle of dud's sometimes.
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post #17 of 53 Old 07-12-2019, 11:09 AM
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I may not use DVD-R for video any more but I do use CD-R for music and am on my last spindle of T-Y CD-R disks. I was going to go with Verbatim after I ran out but the recent news has made me cautious. So, since 100 CD-R spindles of Verbatim are selling on Amazon for $16, I bought a bunch before the good stuff runs out.

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post #18 of 53 Old 07-12-2019, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I may not use DVD-R for video any more but I do use CD-R for music and am on my last spindle of T-Y CD-R disks. I was going to go with Verbatim after I ran out but the recent news has made me cautious. So, since 100 CD-R spindles of Verbatim are selling on Amazon for $16, I bought a bunch before the good stuff runs out.
I have used Maxell and Sony a lot for CD-R with excellent results but the ones I have are from some time ago (5-8 years at least) so can't say if the quality has changed now.
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post #19 of 53 Old 08-02-2019, 11:23 AM
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Another Source of (Possibly?) Quality Blank Media

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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I may not use DVD-R for video any more but I do use CD-R for music and am on my last spindle of T-Y CD-R disks. I was going to go with Verbatim after I ran out but the recent news has made me cautious. So, since 100 CD-R spindles of Verbatim are selling on Amazon for $16, I bought a bunch before the good stuff runs out.
Good move on stocking up on the *good* Verb CD-Rs before they run out. I did the same thing when TY was bought by CMC.(I find myself using more CD-Rs than DVD-Rs these days.)

For less critical recordings (car copies, "scratch" discs I just want to listen to a while and don't care if they last forever, etc.), I've been using these CD-Rs from Media Supply: http://www.mediasupply.com/media-pro...-msi60010.html

These are definitely not the cheapest available. MS sez they have AZO dye, and so far out of about 100 that I've recorded, I'm running 100% with successful burns. But that's only in the last 8-9 months, so I have no longevity data yet.

I *suspect* these blanks are made by CMC, though have absolutely no concrete proof except that MS seems to be working closely with them on other products.

They also have Media Pro Premium blank DVD-Rs, too. (Should mention that since, after all, this IS the DVD Recorder forum: http://www.mediasupply.com/media-pro...-msi60015.html I haven't tried those since I literally have a lifetime supply of blank TY and "Good" Verb DVD-Rs.

If you sign up for Media Supply's e-mails, you'll periodically get 5% or 7% off deals, usually around major holidays. In fact, if you put some items in your cart and let it sit for a half hour or so, you'll often get a pop up offering you the discount if you go ahead and place the order. Unless you're buying a LOT of blank discs, it isn't a big discount, but heck, why pay more if you can get the same product for a little less?

I bought four 100-disc cake boxes and got a handy little cloth tote bag with the Verbatim logo on it. No biggie, but it kinda showed that Media Supply actually wanted my business.
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post #20 of 53 Old 08-05-2019, 10:57 AM
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Gah, this thread is too depressing to contemplate: I had no idea even BD-R as backup storage was considered passe now. The mass herd has moved on to cloud storage, or no storage at all, while I suppose the corporate world has moved to Azure or Amazon or some such. I fear the (probably fast approaching) day when external HDDs and USB sticks disappear: I vastly prefer my files be in my physical possession, thanks.

Perhaps the imminent explosion, implosion and consolidation of streaming services might nudge people back to the thought that, hey, perhaps its not such a bad idea to actually own some physically-stored media files. Disney recently hammered a stake thru the heart of NetFlix core library, a half dozen other big players are poised to enter the fray and trigger a street fight, broadcast networks are getting greedy with distribution fees to the point of cutting their own throats, the cloud is getting hacked more frequently than trees in the rainforest. Lots of factors are conspiring to end the relatively brief period when it seemed the naively utopian Star Trek Holodeck had come true (rely on a one or two beneficent streaming sources for all media consumption, no need to personally own anything, the entire world of music, TV and film will be at my fingertips forever with no petty squabbling among studios or tech giants to interrupt access or bill me by the number of dialog lines).

Fun times ahead. The current generation of entitled kids born with an iPhone in one hand and cheap-as-chips NetFlix subscription in the other will be gobsmacked when old-school business realities return with a vengeance to snatch their assumptions away.
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post #21 of 53 Old 08-05-2019, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
Gah, this thread is too depressing to contemplate: I had no idea even BD-R as backup storage was considered passe now. The mass herd has moved on to cloud storage, or no storage at all, while I suppose the corporate world has moved to Azure or Amazon or some such. I fear the (probably fast approaching) day when external HDDs and USB sticks disappear: I vastly prefer my files be in my physical possession, thanks.

Perhaps the imminent explosion, implosion and consolidation of streaming services might nudge people back to the thought that, hey, perhaps its not such a bad idea to actually own some physically-stored media files. Disney recently hammered a stake thru the heart of NetFlix core library, a half dozen other big players are poised to enter the fray and trigger a street fight, broadcast networks are getting greedy with distribution fees to the point of cutting their own throats, the cloud is getting hacked more frequently than trees in the rainforest. Lots of factors are conspiring to end the relatively brief period when it seemed the naively utopian Star Trek Holodeck had come true (rely on a one or two beneficent streaming sources for all media consumption, no need to personally own anything, the entire world of music, TV and film will be at my fingertips forever with no petty squabbling among studios or tech giants to interrupt access or bill me by the number of dialog lines).

Fun times ahead. The current generation of entitled kids born with an iPhone in one hand and cheap-as-chips NetFlix subscription in the other will be gobsmacked when old-school business realities return with a vengeance to snatch their assumptions away.
All we need is a hundred year Carrington Event to burn away nearly a century of archived media in the big houses. Although considering the recent Universal archives fire.. we may not have to wait that long.

It seems everyday I go online and try to find something that was left alone for 'years' when some newbie intern decides to 'Spring Clean' and save the company tons of money in storage fees to boost their career. After all, anyone that would be interested in that old stuff died years ago.. and ya'know.. its not 'New'.

There is a small number of middle aged slackers who are hording physical media in case of a natural or legal apocalypse that makes it all but unobtainable.. but pretty soon we may have to go back to millenium disc and petroglyphs.

Things tend to go in cycles.. and if there is one thing we humans are likely to do.. its repeat very bad ideas.. just look at what happened to the library at Alexandria.

I think we're a bit over due.
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post #22 of 53 Old 08-06-2019, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post
I had no idea even BD-R as backup storage was considered passe now.
I'm sure a lot of people consider any optical storage as passe now, compared with using a HDD. While I have a disk farm for ripped content on my media server that can be streamed through the house, I personally prefer using BD-R for permanent storage of that content. I have BD-R I burned 8yr ago that are still perfect and could be ripped back to the server any time. The same goes for DVD-R I have that were burned 12-13yr ago.

I wouldn't trust an HDD to statically preserve the content over that period of time.

HDD storage has gotten very cheap, but so has BD-R. I bought a portable 5TB external HDD for $114 -- used for transportable content. 5TB is the equivalent of 200 BD-R which would cost me $92. So using BD-R for long term permanent storage suits me just fine.

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post #23 of 53 Old 08-06-2019, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
HDD storage has gotten very cheap, but so has BD-R. I bought a portable 5TB external HDD for $114 -- used for transportable content. 5TB is the equivalent of 200 BD-R which would cost me $92. So using BD-R for long term permanent storage suits me just fine.
Or if I did my math correct, $250 using -R DVDs(at $20/100 which is getting hard to find nowadays)
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post #24 of 53 Old 08-06-2019, 07:49 PM
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Yes, BD-R has been a lot cheaper than DVD-R (on a $/GB basis) for quite some time now.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #25 of 53 Old 08-10-2019, 06:17 AM
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Hey, I have a few questions about Verbatim if you guys don't mind me asking them here as they're somewhat relevant. I'm almost through my last TY-G02 spool I have from almost 10 years ago. At that time, I remember TY or Verbs were the gotos and now I see they'll both be made by CMC. My main need is archival life as I assume it's probably the case with most users.

First, is there any difference in quality between the regular branded Verbs than the inkjet or thermal printable ones? I see they all use the AZO dye.

Are there any better DVD-Rs available at this time, excluding gold discs, that I should consider?

Finally, I'm not positive that my remaining TY-G02s were bought before the CMC acquisition. Might have been a year or two afterwards. If that's the case, are these current Verbs an upgrade in quality? Thanks
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post #26 of 53 Old 08-10-2019, 09:35 AM
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As you seem to burn very little and might be interested in the real TY-02's old stock(at least I'm pretty sure they are pre-CMC) you might want to look into these Maxell + series DVDs. At the current ~$18/50 or $36 for 100 they are more expensive than the ~$25/100 the AZO CMC Verbs currently go for but again considering how little you burn and archival quality seems to be important to you, the extra $11 for 100 DVDs just might be worth it?
I purchased several of these when Newegg had them for the unbelievable price of $8/50(wish I had purchased more but they were limit 6 and at the time I didn't truly realize what a steal they were). A current Google search yields a couple of sellers advertising them for ~$18/50. I've included 2 links but haven't delt with either company, Newegg seems to be out of stock on these discs.
https://www.outletpc.com/ng2820.html...CABEgLYGPD_BwE
https://computercity.com/products/ma...SABEgLvgvD_BwE
All prices I quoted include shipping and no tax the best I can tell.
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post #27 of 53 Old 08-10-2019, 09:38 AM
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I still have some big Verbatim floppy disks, I win the interwebs!
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post #28 of 53 Old 08-10-2019, 09:56 AM
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I still have some big Verbatim floppy disks, I win the interwebs!
8" floppies? If so you are probably correct, if 5 1/4".....well I've probably got a dozen or so of those around, including an old PC that could read them(that hasn't been fired up since well before Y2K)
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post #29 of 53 Old 08-10-2019, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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JJeff the links you pointed to are the same suppliers that formerly sold (thru) the Newegg store.

I back tracked them when ordering, at the time shipping was a part of the deal so that brought the cost down even more.

Its probable that the demand for these DVD-R media has dropped (so much) that it wasn't worth the resellers time to continue to resell through Newegg, since Newegg would take a cut of the profits(?) that they would make. That or Newegg was emptying its warehouse of any remaining stock pre-supplied by the suppliers to make room for other things.

I consider it a bad sign that the reach of the remaining suppliers has stepped back even further. That the price is a little higher does speak that they are selling, but will soon exhaust their remaining supply. That is its not worth reselling through NewEgg, but they can get a little higher price from collectors and the supply will soon be gone completely. The rarity drives up the price a little, especially if they read AVSForums.

The depression that may soon set in, that almost no media will work consistently in older DVD recorders.. and people may soon turn away from them.. leaves me sad. They are incredible machines for converting pre-digital video to digital without a PC.

Its a bit of retcon to my memory, but when I started helping IsoBuster read the hard drives from many different makes and models of DVD recorder with hard drives.. this was on the tip of my imagination.

Replacing the DVD burner with a newer model DVD burner would not be of any use, if the media eventually all went away.. even if it was Blu-Ray. It may last a little longer on the market.. but the trajectory of digital media is that its not being stored on analog media any more. And its a stretch but DVD-R media is a kind of analog media, it survives dropouts to a degree and degrades in a non-uniform manner.

The market for good or bad is still supporting digital media, and focusing on archival grade digital media.. even if that is in digital data center accessible in the cloud. One day.. we may have similar localized digital storage in our homes or on our person.. like home/personal DNA printers that encodes the media in small crystals using a microscope like 3D printer.. that would have far more density and more control over the "digital" or quantum level characteristics than available with analog "film". Its more like laying down brick and mortar than planting a field to store data.

And when you think about it Castles have lasted longer over time, than a field planted hundreds of years ago.

So the trick for now is to get the analog media over the bridge to the digital realm.. and then worry about the storage media. You could burn it to Blu-Ray.. its still available, or you could make multiple copies to hard drives that Backblaze recommends as the most reliable for that year.. and duplicating them with standalone drive duplicators from year to year. I mean that's a different problem after the video is digitized...

The convenience of using a DVD recorder to make the transition, at its top speed, without editing and authoring a DVD disc on the machine is the true benefit for now. All of the Pioneer DVD recorders are now supported, All of the Toshibas, and as far as I have been able to tell all of the Panasonics.. so the problem finding one single DVD recorder with a hard drive has been vastly reduced.

Where I've failed is mostly in the PAL realm.. I've pleaded and begged for some recorders from the UK and Europe and got a very few models for testing and there are (some) PAL DVD recorders we know you can remove the hard drive from and copy the recordings off in their full unmodified original resolution and format. We just added Philips HDVR3500 but that's a rare event.. its just too hard to get them and too few people seem interested over there these days. One fellow had a SONY that worked.. I wish we had more to test with.. but shipping.. I guess thats the reason.. it costs so much.

I do think its interesting to get some old media and "exercise" the machine as it was originally designed, its great for a demo, and to understand how these worked.. but I wonder how much longer you'll even be able to playback optical discs.. especially if a static crystal recorder and player suddenly become available?

Its not that far fetched.. the stereo lithographic 3D printers that use UV light and a cell phone display to "print" high resolution data in microscopic parts is running only 200 us dollars today. You could almost print a DVD disc sideways with that technology complete with video data on it and play it back in a DVD recorder today.

BTW: I can't recommend IsoBuster enough, the software author has done amazing things with a product that is very flexible. He's the real genius behind figuring out how to read HDD from the recorders without understanding the code that runs on them.
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Last edited by jwillis84; 08-10-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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post #30 of 53 Old 08-10-2019, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jwillis84 View Post
BTW: I can't recommend IsoBuster enough, the software author has done amazing things with a product that is very flexible. He's the real genius behind figuring out how to read HDD from the recorders without understanding the code that runs on them.
Funny you should mention IsoBuster. I had a DVD that had was basically full, it had a couple of titles recorded by one of my Panasonic DVD recorders. I went to finalize the disc and my recorder went through a self-check and after several automatic restarts of my DVDR(a EH-50 FWIW) it now reports the DVD is blank This happens on very rare occasions on Panasonics, sometimes after the self check the disc is OK and you can still record on it or finalize it the second time, other times(the most common scenerio) you can still see and play the titles but when you try and finalize it or record more to it, it says the DVD is non-recordable. In this case the DVD can be played in any Panasonic DVDR but basically no DVD players(or PCs) which require a DVD to be finalized before playing. Anyway with this most recent disc when I try and record to it it says something to the effect the disc is non-recordable and shows the DVD is blank. I tried it on several of my Panasonics but same thing. In desperation I tried a couple programs on my PC, DVD Shrink(which reports the DVD as being blank), VLC says disc is blank and an old copy of IsoBuster(v3.3 FWIW) which also shows the DVD as being blank
My question to you, and something that might push me purchase the newest version of IsoBuster is, do you think the newest version would read this basically full DVD that nothing else seems to be able to read?

AFA the Maxell DVDs I linked, it's my guess they are old stock, I don't think Maxell even makes DVDs anymore do they? and for sure not quality TY02 DVDs, once there gone I'm pretty sure we'll never see something like them anymore.
Yes the Newegg $8 price included shipping but so does the $18 current price(at least it says it is).
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