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post #3331 of 3359 Old 03-20-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by billmich View Post
With my cable company using H.264 instead of MPEG-2, I've noticed the file sizes are now like 7 -8GB for my football games. I am a 1 game to 1 disc person.

I was thinking of making my burns of games onto DL discs (instead of BD) - but there doesn't seem to be many DVD (DL) deals out there where the price per disc is much lower (if at all) than the deals I can get on BD (discs)

or am I just not looking in the right places?
I use Optical Quantum 6X BD-R. For quite some time now, the price per disk has been ~$0.50 (50 packs) and has been lower than that of DVD+DL. Don't bother with DVD+DL.

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post #3332 of 3359 Old 03-20-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post
I use Optical Quantum 6X BD-R. For quite some time now, the price per disk has been ~$0.50 (50 packs) and has been lower than that of DVD+DL. Don't bother with DVD+DL.
I haven't even looked for DL stuff in a while. Since I am a Panny person, I used to get DVD-R DL for a couple of years. I don't see that being made anymore.

My Muxing program might be able to shrink a 6 GB file down to fit an SL DVD, I'll have to see if that takes a big quality hit.
I still have leftover DL media, and it will last me a while for my purposes, , but was looking down the line...
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post #3333 of 3359 Old 03-22-2019, 01:07 PM
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I think it was Kelson who stepped up to using ImgBurn and a Pioneer Blu-ray burner in a PC when he left DVDs for greener pastures.

The reasoning went something like what's bothering you right now, need more space for bigger files and (at the time) DL was either too rare, expensive or unreliable versus just making the BD jump. It was a pain to transcode, convert, then, master a DVD menu.

He had a "neat" trick to mastering BD without all the Edit and Authoring (overhead). Basically it was the discovery that Blu-ray players treated BD "data" discs the same as a BD "video" discs and automatically displayed simple text menus for recording titles when a BD data disc was inserted.

ImgBurn would let him select a bunch of large video format files, regardless of their DVD-Forum compliancy and burn them to discs.. Blu-ray players would often handle many odd non-Spec files and play them back anyway.

When you left the Video domain of players and went for something like a beefy network streamer or HTPC, the data discs would be just as playable.. if not more so.. because they wouldn't have any TS or VOB structures to worry about.

I haven't verified any of what I read.. but I though (huh..) that's pretty elegant.
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post #3334 of 3359 Old 03-22-2019, 05:04 PM
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I think it was Kelson who stepped up to using ImgBurn and a Pioneer Blu-ray burner in a PC when he left DVDs for greener pastures.
Not Pioneer. I have a pair of LG BD burners in my desktop that I use. I left DVD because I left SD. I started recording OTA HD on TiVo which allows easy network transfer of recordings as HD/5.1. Video ReDo is made for editing video recordings - HD and/or SD. I'm not one of those people who is OK with recording in HD and then dumbing it down to SD so that it fits on a DVD-R.

Native BD format is .m2ts. If you use ImgBurn to burn a group of .m2ts files to BD-R, it generates a BD Video disk. When played in a BD player it displays a list of the titles (filenames) from which one can select and play -- in other words, a simple menu. It is as simple as that.

In the case of MKV files (my favorite format for DVD or SD video), ImgBurn will burn a group of MKV files to BD-R as a Data disk. BD players will read them and process in the same way -- display a list of titles for selection and playback. The cool part here is that 1 x BD-R = 5 x DVD-R in terms of storage capacity. You would never have to worry about the prospect of splitting an "oversize" recording across multiple disks.
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post #3335 of 3359 Old 03-25-2019, 08:30 AM
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Recoding the files from 6 GB down to ~4.7 GB in order to fit onto a DVD disc both took too long and introduced artifacts into the video. so nixing that idea

I think I will see what I can scrounge up for DL discs.... (obviously, only +R DL is still around, the -R DL must've faded away and was never as big to begin with).

No big hurry, just occasionally keep an eye out and see if there is ever a sale on DL media that is less than $20 for a 50-pack
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post #3336 of 3359 Old 03-25-2019, 01:57 PM
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Verbatim DVD+DL is still the best but you'll pay $1/disk.

Of the less expensive ones, Optical Quantum OQDPRDL08LT 8X 8.5 GB DVD+R DL Double Layer Recordable Blank Media will run $0.46/disk. That is the same price as BD-R: Optical Quantum OQBDR06LT-50 6X 25GB BD-R Single Layer Blu-Ray Recordable Blank Media = $0.46/disk for a lot more storage.

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post #3337 of 3359 Old 03-26-2019, 05:01 AM
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I agree, the Verbatim +R DL discs are the most available and your best bet, even on Panasonic machines, which don't care for +R discs much at all. One source, probably not the best source:


https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-DVD-...gateway&sr=8-5


For some reason, THIS has been showing up in the Amazon advertisements lately. It is about 1/2 the price of the Verbatims, but likely isn't even worth that!


https://www.amazon.com/KODAK-50-Pack...ateway&sr=8-15


These are appallingly expensive! They weren't when I purchased a bunch of them. My Panasonic DVD recorders like these -R DL discs more than the Verbatim discs.


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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Evil is charming and beautiful. It makes you doubt yourself. It asks for one small compromise after another until it whittles you down, and it functions best when no one believes in it.-JOA
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post #3338 of 3359 Old 03-26-2019, 03:12 PM
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Your recorders have expensive tastes.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #3339 of 3359 Old 03-27-2019, 02:22 AM
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Yes they do. Panasonic recorders prefer -R to +R disks, and at least in the DL variety, the difference in price is outrageous. I can't imagine that they sell many, if any at those prices. It is the very poorly named "THAT'S" brand which is made by Taiyo Yuden. They were about $50 per spindle when I purchased several of them, now I would not even consider buying them. I can vouch for the quality, but NOT the price!
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post #3340 of 3359 Old 03-27-2019, 03:21 PM
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I thought Taiyo Yuden was history. Didn't JVC buy them out then shut them down?
I still have several 100 spindles of T-Y Premium 8X with very little use for them -- I mostly use them to back up digital photos.
I also have a couple spindles of T-Y CD-R, which I do use regularly.

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post #3341 of 3359 Old 03-27-2019, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
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I thought Taiyo Yuden was history. Didn't JVC buy them out then shut them down?
I still have several 100 spindles of T-Y Premium 8X with very little use for them -- I mostly use them to back up digital photos.
I also have a couple spindles of T-Y CD-R, which I do use regularly.
I read that CMC bought the rights to the formula and to produce Taiyo Yuden "branded" media after the Fukushima disaster in 2011. They chose not to rebuild. After that the quality was good but no where as consistent as it was under the original makers. It still floats around appearing from time to time, but even "new old stock" could have been made post 2011 and promised to be "As Good" as the old "TY" media but be of inferior consistent manufacturing quality.. so its kind of sales booby trapped. People more or less moved on to avoid the potential sales booby traps online and it tanked the TY brand name. Newbies still get caught buying it sometimes. Old timers don't even bother.

Verbatim made three lines, their premium is still quite good, but not always cheap.. and you have to buy it from someplace like BH Photo to be sure its of good quality. I think Verbatim was also left the last man standing making DVD-RAM after Panasonic threw in the towel last year. Supposedly some medical equipment still prints only to DVD-RAM so they can charge a premium for it per disc and still make a profit. But long term DVD-RAM is done.

Since Oppo and Samsung have left the Blu-ray market it looks like demand for BD-R media will fall even further.. but PC sales of BD burners may keep it around a bit longer. VinData (I think) is having some success overseas in markets like India where telecom access is still very expensive.

Long term 3-5 years old high density storage doesn't look like it will be around much longer. For all its faults.. HDD storage may become all that is left, rotating media (pun) from one HDD to another for backup may have to become a thing.. but we're much more addicted to small file sizes than ever before.

How long until a young 35 year old "kid" looks funny at us for handing them a 2.5 inch SSD (or a Crucial Thunderbolt Thumb drive) do you think?

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post #3342 of 3359 Old 03-28-2019, 09:58 AM
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I've been hearing about the imminent demise of recordable disk media for the last 10 yr.
I still have no trouble buying even CD-R media at affordable prices.

Oppo was a great company but their reality was a niche market that was at its peak when up-converting DVD to 1080p HDTV displays was all the rage. After the BluRay market fully developed, people weren't willing to spend $500 on an Oppo BD player that played BD with the same quality as a sub-$100 player. Their market dried up, they went under.
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post #3343 of 3359 Old 03-28-2019, 12:35 PM
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I don't know that BD-R will dry up. I do think CD and DVD media (will) dry up in the next 10 yr. I don't know BD-R will dry up because its a more flexible standard. (Apparently) the BD-R drives we have today are capable of burning to denser and denser BD-R media (when) the technology for new dyes improves by burrowing deeper and deeper into multiple optical layers. I caught that when SONY announced their latest denser BD-R media with capacities far beyond 50 GB per disk.

If so..

Then BD-R will remain around a lot longer.. at least until we reach the end of optical media density due to layer limitations. "Spinning Rust" however still has its fans.. even in the shadow of the Flash drive.

The PC and mainframe market rely on some media like DVD-RAM to "boot" ancient legacy equipment.. so like Floppies they won't completely go until the last machine is retired. But consumer CD and DVD will eventually go off the primary market and on to the secondary eBay and Amazon After Dark (ADA) markets. It just won't be affordable anymore when that happens.
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post #3344 of 3359 Old 03-28-2019, 03:25 PM
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DVD media is basically dead, B&M anyway.
About the only place locally to get decent blank media has been Micro Center. As of late every time I visit I see their DVD isle getting smaller and smaller. I visited today and what used to be a full-length isle(50'?? long) bottom to top has dwindled down to a section about 10' wide There selection is really getting pathetic. I didn't see any AZO Verbatims although I didn't see and DVDs marked as "Life" so maybe all blanks are Life and they no longer carry AZOs?? They also didn't have the $15 or $16 shrink-wrapped Lifes I like to used for PC copying, instead their cheapest Verbs were $20. They did have some 25 spindles of AZO Verbs DLs but not the 50 packs I used to purchase. They also dropped their 100 spindle of Windata DLs(used to sell for $30 and then went up to $40) I actually had pretty good luck using in a few of my PC drives.
In the end, I ended up walking out empty handed, guess I'll check Amazon later tonight, DVD media is really dead
Oh they did have some cheap CD media, that section was about a foot wide
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post #3345 of 3359 Old 03-28-2019, 04:23 PM
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DVD media is basically dead..... guess I'll check Amazon later tonight, DVD media is really dead
Amazon was worse than Microcenter!
The cheapest 100 spindle of Life Verbs is $27
The cheapest 100 spindle of Verbs is $25(cheaper than the Lifes )
Very very few sellers of Verb 100 spindles, crazy! guess I should have picked up the $20 spindle Verbs at M.C. today......
DVD media dead
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post #3346 of 3359 Old 03-28-2019, 10:33 PM
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Amazon was worse than Microcenter!
The cheapest 100 spindle of Life Verbs is $27
The cheapest 100 spindle of Verbs is $25(cheaper than the Lifes )
Very very few sellers of Verb 100 spindles, crazy! guess I should have picked up the $20 spindle Verbs at M.C. today......
DVD media dead
Subscribe to the NewEgg specials.. where they send out flyers when dumping stuff on July 4th or Presidents Day.. and pay attention.. it might be your last shot at something decent.

Hey, its better than eBay right?

"hmm.." wonder why some kid hasn't used a 3D printer to do a Science Fair project to print up some discs and decorate them with some sort of Magical Purple Pizza sauce.. seems way over due. They could use ID code MPP.. might be better than some brands.
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post #3347 of 3359 Old 03-29-2019, 02:51 PM
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Subscribe to the NewEgg specials.. where they send out flyers when dumping stuff on July 4th or Presidents Day.. and pay attention.. it might be your last shot at something decent.
I tried that once.....and got tons of emails but none related to what I want so I unsubscribed.
I frequently check this thread and so far have been lucky enough see a post by someone with a great deal. Last DVDs were old Maxell's with TY02 MID, I bought all I could, which was only a couple spindles I believe.

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Hey, its better than eBay right?
Yes I don't really do eBay. Not that I have a big thing against them but I've always been able to find what I want on Amazon and for a decent price

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"hmm.." wonder why some kid hasn't used a 3D printer to do a Science Fair project to print up some discs and decorate them with some sort of Magical Purple Pizza sauce.. seems way over due. They could use ID code MPP.. might be better than some brands.
While not purple, it looks like Pizza Hut in Brazil toyed with a pizza DVD that smelled like pizza
https://www.businessinsider.com/domi...hen-hot-2013-5
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post #3348 of 3359 Old 03-29-2019, 04:13 PM
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I frequently check this thread and so far have been lucky enough see a post by someone with a great deal. Last DVDs were old Maxell's with TY02 MID, I bought all I could, which was only a couple spindles I believe. That was me............ they were 8$ for 50. NOW THEY UP TO 26.OO+_- https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817287102

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post #3349 of 3359 Old 03-29-2019, 05:14 PM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by mickinct View Post
I frequently check this thread and so far have been lucky enough see a post by someone with a great deal. Last DVDs were old Maxell's with TY02 MID, I bought all I could, which was only a couple spindles I believe. That was me............ they were 8$ for 50. NOW THEY UP TO 26.OO+_- https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...82E16817287102
I think the comments section on that link 'let the cat out of the bag' and the seller realized what they had.

.. must supress the snark, must not give into the snarkside.. Powerful is the snarkside.

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post #3350 of 3359 Old 03-30-2019, 10:37 PM
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DVD media is basically dead, B&M anyway.
About the only place locally to get decent blank media has been Micro Center.
I think I must disagree with the notion that DVD-R are dead because their appearance in B&M stores is dwindling. Rather, like pre-recorded disk media, their outlet has shifted to on-line retailers. Increasingly, more and more tech-savvy people buy this stuff on-line because they can get a bigger selection for a cheaper price than in B&M stores. Since I first started burning disks in 2004, I have never bought blank media other than on-line. I was a patron of SuperMediaStore for the longest time and bought all my T-Y DVD-R & CD-R media from them. When I went to BD-R I switched to buying from Amazon. Blank media was just one of many items that electronic stores could not compete on price with on-line retailers.

Today on Amazon, there is no shortage of blank CD-R, DVD-R or BD-R media at reasonable prices. I like burning backups of my videos on disk because I have disks I burned in 2004 that I can still load in my BD drives and rip to my server. My backup disks are stored very well and rarely handled. They seem perfectly happy to endure. I would never trust a HDD beyond 5yr with the primary copy of anything. I just had a 7yr old Seagate fail suddenly. Nothing was lost -- the media I had on the disk was all backed up on BD-R.

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post #3351 of 3359 Old 03-31-2019, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
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Today on Amazon, there is no shortage of blank CD-R, DVD-R or BD-R media at reasonable prices.....
Actually thats what kind of prompted my original post, the lack of Verbatims even on Amazon. To see what I mean search Amazon for Verbatim -R DVD and I think you'll find what I did, sure there are results but not like before and even then many are the crazy high priced places that I can't see anyone would purchase from. And if your familiar with Microcenter, well they are basically the last large B&M seller of computer parts and media, if they've severely cut back on their blank media, I see blank optical media going away. After all when was the last time you saw a PC or for sure laptop with a DVD drive, they just don't have them so it should follow that blank media would become harder and harder to find. Look I'm not saying it's impossible to find blank optical media now but I believe in the very near future it will be, when was the last time you saw blank videotape or for that matter blank audiotape for sale? Sure you might be able to track them down but I'm sure at a premium of what they were during their heyday, and I see optical media going that way sooner than later
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post #3352 of 3359 Old 03-31-2019, 03:42 PM
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After all when was the last time you saw a PC or for sure laptop with a DVD drive, they just don't have them so it should follow that blank media would become harder and harder to find.

I just bought a brand new Windows-10 PC last July with a manufacture date of March 24 2018. It is a modern PC with DD4 memory and jjeff – the PC came with a DVD-burner. The good thing is that the DVD-Speed wars are over – my new burner is 8x – yes 8x DVD burner and it burns Verb Azo 1 to 16x discs just fine. I noticed that many new PCs with DVD burners come with 8x burners now-days. Of course the top-line PCs will have BD burners.

Speaking of good DVD media – my corner drug store still sells AZO DVD-r and +r media. This image was screen grabbed today.



https://www.londondrugs.com/computer...y/blank-media/
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post #3353 of 3359 Old 03-31-2019, 08:04 PM
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Actually thats what kind of prompted my original post, the lack of Verbatims even on Amazon. To see what I mean search Amazon for Verbatim -R DVD and I think you'll find what I did, sure there are results but not like before and even then many are the crazy high priced places that I can't see anyone would purchase from.
Is not $25/100 spindle of Azo DVD-R a good price? It's even an Amazon Choice product.

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After all when was the last time you saw a PC or for sure laptop with a DVD drive,
My current i7 Laptop that I bought less than a year ago (5-Oct-18) came with a DVD burner. Wasn't even an add-on option.

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post #3354 of 3359 Old 04-10-2019, 10:55 AM
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So I have been burning by sporting events to Blu-ray disc for about 5 years now using HTPC and very happy with the hi-def results.

Looking to the future, are there even such things as blank discs for 4K (UHD)? I know no one is broadcasting via cable in 4K (ESPN/FS1...etc, perhaps there will be OTA at some point.

Just throwing it out there if I have reached the end of optical archiving at 1080p Blu-ray, and 4k/8k..etc will never have a disc based system
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post #3355 of 3359 Old 04-10-2019, 03:07 PM
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I think blank 4K-capable media would be a stretch. There are barely UHD PC ROM drives let alone any 4K burners. My understanding is that 4K disks are still BD disks, but with multiple layers to accommodate the increased storage requirements. If I had to guess (always dangerous) I would speculate the entry to recordable 4K would be to use a program analogous to Handbrake which would recode the H.265 UHD source to shrink it down to fit on a 50GB BD-R DL.

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The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #3356 of 3359 Old 04-11-2019, 05:11 AM
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I think blank 4K-capable media would be a stretch. There are barely UHD PC ROM drives let alone any 4K burners. My understanding is that 4K disks are still BD disks, but with multiple layers to accommodate the increased storage requirements. If I had to guess (always dangerous) I would speculate the entry to recordable 4K would be to use a program analogous to Handbrake which would recode the H.265 UHD source to shrink it down to fit on a 50GB BD-R DL.
So is "UHD" more about the better encoding algorithm, more so than the changes to the physical disc?

Obviously, DVD--> Blu-ray was as much of a hardware change as anything (blue laser, different physical media)
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post #3357 of 3359 Old 04-11-2019, 04:31 PM
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So is "UHD" more about the better encoding algorithm, more so than the changes to the physical disc?

Obviously, DVD--> Blu-ray was as much of a hardware change as anything (blue laser, different physical media)
The answer to your question is that UHD is recorded on BD disks -- just not the ones we are used to. They're all part of the BD Disk format specification which is broader than most people realize. The HD BD-R and BD-R (DL) we are familiar with is at the "low end" of the specification -- single & double layer @25GB/layer. The "upper end" of the specification allows for double & triple layer disks @33.4GB/layer -- 66GB & 100GB/disk respectively. It's these higher capacity disks (as BD-ROM) that are used for UHD. The BD UHD specification has 3 disc capacities and data rates -- 50GB @82Mbit/s, 66GB @108 Mbit/s, and 100GB @128 Mbit/s.

For recordable BD-R media, the BD Disk format specification allows for 50GB-DL @25GB/layer (what we have today) and 100GB-TL @33.4GB/layer (not on the horizon).

If you are really interested, here is a link to a White-Paper on the Blu-ray Disc Format. Look for Table 1.3.2.1 on page 14.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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post #3358 of 3359 Old 04-12-2019, 10:03 AM
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Verbatim 25 GB 2X BD-R LTH Single Jewel Case Disc (use w/LTH Compat Drive) 96569 $0.99 After Promo Code: NEFPBK41


BLURAYS .99 https://flash.newegg.com/Product/17-...A-_-17-130-069

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post #3359 of 3359 Old 04-12-2019, 11:12 AM
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Verbatim 25 GB 2X BD-R LTH Single Jewel Case Disc (use w/LTH Compat Drive) 96569 $0.99 After Promo Code: NEFPBK41


BLURAYS .99 https://flash.newegg.com/Product/17-...A-_-17-130-069
LTH is garbage and should be avoided
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