First ATSC/QAM tuner recorder LG DR787T - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 236 Old 04-18-2007, 07:19 AM
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BobbySlav,

I was being semi sarcastic saying "Glowing report".
And I have read all this post and also your review online which I actually came across first. I believe it still says you returned the unit and nothing about getting a second one although you may have updated that.

I decided last night that what stops me from getting this unit is the posts on it not appearing to have the latest Gen ATSC chip which does a good job of getting rid of ghost/multipath.

At least the latest Gen chip works great with the Samsung DTB-H260F set top box which I presently own.

-DonB2
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post #152 of 236 Old 04-19-2007, 01:19 PM
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I tried the Verbatim/Mitsubishi disk and it was a not go it still refused my disk... I am thinking this is proof that my machine has problems. I will exchange it at best buy next time I get down that way.
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post #153 of 236 Old 04-19-2007, 02:07 PM
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What intrigues me is I own a inexpensive B130 Dell Laptop with internal DVD burner and it reads anything I throw at it.

But on the other hand DVD recorder after DVD recorder at least the mid range to low end models have read issues.

It is like the read head is weak while the write head is strong.

I also think heat issues with these DVD players are throwing the read head either permanately or temporarily out of alignment causing read errors.

-DonB2
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post #154 of 236 Old 04-19-2007, 05:38 PM
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I did a little more testing today before the unit moves to live with my grandparents. I have the 797T with DVD/VHS combo.

Up until now, all my testing had been done via composite out hooked up to a standard (4:3) TV. Tonight I hooked it up as follows

HDMI Out to Vizio 42" 720p Plasma
Antenna In
Unit set to 16:9 TV with resolution at 720p
Sitting about 11 feet away

A couple of things I noticed.
1) Live TV viewing -- output is clearly an upconverted SD image as others have reported
2) It appears that all TV signals are upconverted as the stations that broadcast 480i came across stretched
3) VCR Recordings with these settings are 4:3, 480i, but since it upconverts any widescreen program is shown on the TV as widescreen with the current settings..
4) Noticed that when stopping VHS play and going back to live TV sound was lost. I had to change channels to get sound back. (HDPC??)
5) The VCR Recordings in SP are slightly worse quality (clarity) than the DVD recordings in LP (at least to my eyes)
6) ATSC tuner seems a little weaker than the ATSC Tuner in my TV. One station (~60 miles from tower) comes in fine with the Vizio TV tuner, but the LG couldn't hold a consistent signal.

I'm taking this next weekend to my grandparents to use on their 25" Panny SD TV, so I probably won't be doing any other tests on my widescreen, but can easily hook it up to my 4:3 SD TV if someone has questions about that behavior.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #155 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 06:51 AM
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sivartk ,

I really appreciate that you connected this unit to your Plasma and verified that it does not pass HD via HDMI as the lousy LG rep inferred to me that it did.

So basically you see the same output on Component as you do on HDMI?


I can't tell you how disappointed with the LG rep that replied to my Emails. I can't say as he lied but he sure was not forthcoming with his answers.

I have learned so much more about this unit on these boards than what I learned from the rep at LG.

Do you think the digital tuner handles multipath as well as the Gold Standard Samsung DTB-H260F or even as well as your TV tuner or don't you have multpath issues in your area?

Good luck with your grandparents using it!!!

My Mom is really electronic challenged.

-DonB2
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post #156 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post

sivartk ,

I really appreciate that you connected this unit to your Plasma and verified that it does not pass HD via HDMI as the lousy LG rep inferred to me that it did.

So basically you see the same output on Component as you do on HDMI?

I didn't try it with component, but looking at the credits of a TV show you can clearly see pixelation around the lettering that you can't see when switching to the TV's tuner and viewing a true HD source. I would suspect the component and HDMI signals would look very similar. Actually component may be better as I doubt it would upconvert the signal and allow an accurate aspect ratio of 480i material.

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Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post


Do you think the digital tuner handles multipath as well as the Gold Standard Samsung DTB-H260F or even as well as your TV tuner or don't you have multpath issues in your area?

I don't have many multi-path issues in my area as I'm kind of at the top of a hill on old farm land (not many trees, etc). I only notice the occasion "flicker" in a strong signal on the CW network with a strong south wind. I didn't notice any with the LG, but then again I didn't watch any of the CW. Right now, I just have a cheap RCA "HDTV" antenna (free hand me down) up in my attic. Sorry, can't help much there.

As for my grandparents, I'm eliminating a VCR, HDTV tuner, DVD Player and composite input switch with this one piece of equipment so it will be easier for them....plus the HDTV tuner (Sammy) will be repurposed on a true HDTV display instead of wasting on a SDTV set

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #157 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, someone explain to me what is "multipath" and what is the problem with it?

I am at the moment on my third LG 787 after the second one got damaged by a power surge caused by a power line falling behing my house. It looks like third time is charm. This one has a very clear reception, almost no heat, and vibrates less than the previous two.

The power surge fried my TV too, so I had to buy a new TV. I got a cheap Insignia with a built in ATSC tuner. It only says ATSC, but has a QAM tuner as well. The TV is pretty crappy, as expected from a brand that's not really a brand. I was hoping it would be made by LG as well, like the Insignia DVD recorders, but it doesn't say so anywhere on the unit.

Anyway, the tuner of the LG is 1000 times better than the one in the TV. It tuned all clear channels, compared to about 10 that the TV's tuner managed. It also looks very clean with the analog tuner on stations that the TV has double and wavy images.

I am back to liking the LG again. Hopefully it will last.
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post #158 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 08:01 AM
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Multipath - a phenomenon in the physics of waves whereby a wave from a source travels to a detector via two or more paths and, under the right condition, the two (or more) components of the wave interfere. The condition necessary is that the components of the wave remain coherent throughout the whole extent of their travel. The interference will arise owing to the two (or more) components of the wave having, in general, travelled a different length, and thus arriving at the detector out of phase with each other.

Most of the time it is caused by trees, large buildings, mountains, etc. In analog TV terms it appears as a "ghost." Since I haven't experienced it since I have hooked up a DTV tuner, I'm not sure how it appears.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #159 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks!
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post #160 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

Multipath -
Most of the time it is caused by trees, large buildings, mountains, etc. In analog TV terms it appears as a "ghost." Since I haven't experienced it since I have hooked up a DTV tuner, I'm not sure how it appears.

Bad multi-path will cause the tuner either to not lock(find) the sation at all or dropout. But the tuner chips are getting very good at rejecting multi-path, for example the 6th generation LG chips are supposed to be 30% better than the 5th generation, which were better than the 4th generation chips by a good margin, and so on. Plus the longer distance folk typically use more directional antenna, so off-axis signals are already weakened. So even though the weak link in 8VSB transmission vs. other designs was supposedly multi-path, it's becoming a moot point.

- Rich
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post #161 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 11:54 AM
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I am not sure if the Samsung STB DTB-H260F is 4th or 5th generation. I do know it does a much better job than my built in Pioneer Plasma ATSC tuner at handling ghosts/multipath.

One of the ways I see it manifested on my TV is via the Samsung signal strength meter. You will have a 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 signal strength for 4 or five minutes and than all of a sudden it drops to zero you get the "No Signal Found" message. Than instantly signal is back to 9 or 10 out of ten.


This is also true of some of my channels that come in at around 7 or 8 so it is not a overdriven channel strength issue.

I have a lot of tall Long Needle pine trees surrounding my house and the neighborhood. My house is 2 story but lower than normal elevation which is mostly flat here in the Raleigh NC area and antenna is in attic.

Consequently I see digital ghosts although the Samsung has done an admirable job acting as a "Ghostbuster" and from what RICHBEN is saying maybe all the new tuner will do and admirable job.

So maybe I should give the LG a try although I dislike their email reps!!!!

You sure can't beat actually trying a unit.

-DonB2
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post #162 of 236 Old 04-20-2007, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonB2 View Post

I am not sure if the Samsung STB DTB-H260F is 4th or 5th generation. I do know it does a much better job than my built in Pioneer Plasma ATSC tuner at handling ghosts/multipath.

One of the ways I see it manifested on my TV is via the Samsung signal strength meter. You will have a 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 signal strength for 4 or five minutes and than all of a sudden it drops to zero you get the "No Signal Found" message. Than instantly signal is back to 9 or 10 out of ten.


This is also true of some of my channels that come in at around 7 or 8 so it is not a overdriven channel strength issue.

I have a lot of tall Long Needle pine trees surrounding my house and the neighborhood. My house is 2 story but lower than normal elevation which is mostly flat here in the Raleigh NC area and antenna is in attic.

Consequently I see digital ghosts although the Samsung has done an admirable job acting as a "Ghostbuster" and from what RICHBEN is saying maybe all the new tuner will do and admirable job.

So maybe I should give the LG a try although I dislike their email reps!!!!

You sure can't beat actually trying a unit.

-DonB2

I would guess that the Samsung and these new recorders are both "5th generation" (I recall someone mentioning 5th gen for Samsung, and the design cycle is about right for a 5G). I use quotes as "5th gen" is an LG way of describing their current offerings; not sure how many generations ATI and others have had. I can't remember the chip used in the Sammy, though, but if it's LG, I don't think it would be much different. But like you say, can't beat actually trying. I'm sure algorithms are not all the same for different chipsets and designs; some product may favor different multi-path scenarios over others, so it should depend upon where you live!

6th gen LG chips are in product designers hands; I wouldn't expect product using these until late in the year (but that's just a wild guess based on product cycle times). Of course, there is always something better coming "just around the corner!"

- Rich
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post #163 of 236 Old 04-24-2007, 07:11 AM
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Hey fellars...

From what I've gathered elsewhere, I believe the SAMSUNG HTB-H260F uses a 5th gen., ATI Xilleon chip.

Take a peek here

I contacted LG yesterday. No firm date on when products utilizing the 6th gen chipsets will be available.

Apparently someone on ebay is already trying to capitalize on the "NEXT GEN TUNER" with their listing, but it looks like a 787T to me!

Sorry, couldn't get the link to work. Do an ebay search for LG HDTV tuners, and you'll see what I mean.

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post #164 of 236 Old 04-24-2007, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by DeerHunter View Post

Hey fellars...

From what I've gathered elsewhere, I believe the SAMSUNG HTB-H260F uses a 5th gen., ATI Xilleon chip.

I left that out, as elsewhere someone was refuting the use of "5th generation" universally for the "latest" chips. But it does help us consumers sort things out, as the development rounds are pretty much equivalent between ATI and LG, AFAIK.

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Originally Posted by DeerHunter View Post

Apparently someone on ebay is already trying to capitalize on the "NEXT GEN TUNER" with their listing, but it looks like a 787T to me!

Problem is, "NEXT GEN" is a moving target! And if we think about it, aren't the most recent ones using "CURRENT GEN"? Another reason to use numbers!

- Rich
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post #165 of 236 Old 04-24-2007, 09:43 AM
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Microtune is supposedly doing some good work...

Click here for an interesting read

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post #166 of 236 Old 04-24-2007, 09:52 AM
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From your guys first hand experiences, what do you think is the BEST ATSC tuner currently available...as far as set top boxes???

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post #167 of 236 Old 04-25-2007, 12:28 PM
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"From your guys first hand experiences, what do you think is the BEST ATSC tuner currently available...as far as set top boxes???"

I think there are not too many choices out there. Especially if you exclude any SAT/OTA combos.

The Samsung DTB-H260F is top on my list.

Oops sorry I am helping towards hijacking this post. Did not mean too.

-DonB2
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post #168 of 236 Old 04-28-2007, 06:53 AM
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I didn't see this addressed here, and their manual isn't posted yet, so can anyone tell me about the editing features?

Specifically I want to know if you can
1) Manually set chapters (i.e., not a playlist; so that if you play it in another unit it will retain the chapter marks)
2) Combine chapters
3) Delete sections of a title

Basically, I mostly record sporting events and want to edit out the commercials and be able to play it on other units without the commercials. Further to that, I was wonderng about the quality of recording beyond two hours. Is it better than VHS SP?

Thanks. And good luck to everyone.
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post #169 of 236 Old 04-28-2007, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rex king View Post

I didn't see this addressed here, and their manual isn't posted yet, so can anyone tell me about the editing features?

Specifically I want to know if you can
1) Manually set chapters (i.e., not a playlist; so that if you play it in another unit it will retain the chapter marks)
2) Combine chapters
3) Delete sections of a title

Basically, I mostly record sporting events and want to edit out the commercials and be able to play it on other units without the commercials. Further to that, I was wonderng about the quality of recording beyond two hours. Is it better than VHS SP?

Thanks. And good luck to everyone.

Let me try my best as I did test some of these....but the unit is packed and about to go to its real home, so this is from memory.

1) I want to say yes, but not 100% sure
2) I know that you can combine titles, not sure about chapters
3) Yes, you can delete sections of a title (I.e. remove commercials). The only annoying thing about this feature is that when you delete a section it takes you back to the beginning of the title, so you have to FF through the whole title to get to your next cutting point.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #170 of 236 Old 04-28-2007, 08:59 AM
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Just a quick question.

And if this has been covered already, sorry. Did not feel like reading through 168 posts

But...

According to the BEST BUY website the LG DR787T DOES NOT HAVE an ATSC(or QAM for that matter) tuner. Just a NTSC. I found that strange considering the title of the thread. It also is on sale(I think online only) for $195+tax. Sounds like a pretty good price for a Recorder if it has all 3 tuners for those who want it.

Anyway, they list an LG DR797T for $255+tax(online only again I think) which they list as having an ATSC TUNER only. No metion of QAM, but that could just be a misprint/oversight because people have constantly mentioned it does here.

Is this info correct, or a screwup on their(BB) part?

If it is then the thread title needs to be changed to avoid confusion.

Also, if it is wrong, then what are the differences between the DR787T and the DR797T?

I am just a little confused on what is what, is all.
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post #171 of 236 Old 04-28-2007, 10:43 AM
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The thread title is correct - the RC797T has both an ATSC and a QAM tuner.
I was able to get the price listed on the B B Web site by doing an in store pickup.
The 787 is a DVDR only while the 797 is a DVDR + VCR.
Hope this helps
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post #172 of 236 Old 05-01-2007, 07:47 AM
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Took this unit (797) out to my grandparents last weekend. They are about 70 miles from the stations towers. This unit has a very good analog tuner (tuned about 5 channels they couldn't receive with their TV) and a digital tuner that pulled in 5 more stations than the Samsung T451 they were using before. Nice that I didn't have to touch their antenna.

Gave them a lesson on how to use the unit and they seemed very happy with it...so far no problems.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #173 of 236 Old 05-01-2007, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivartk View Post

Took this unit (797) out to my grandparents last weekend. They are about 70 miles from the stations towers. This unit has a very good analog tuner (tuned about 5 channels they couldn't receive with their TV) and a digital tuner that pulled in 5 more stations than the Samsung T451 they were using before. Nice that I didn't have to touch their antenna.

Gave them a lesson on how to use the unit and they seemed very happy with it...so far no problems.

I agree on the analog tuner. It is by far the best one I've tried. There are several channels that my TV can't tune at all and many that come up with double and triple images and interferance from other channels, the LG tunes them crystal clear. I was watching some analog cable channels last night and they look almost as good as the digital ones.

I know to a lot of people the lack of HD pass through is a big disappointment, but in my case this makes very little difference. Although my projector can handle HD resolutions, its native resolution is still 480p, so it will still not be true HD, and for the moment I am not really planning on upgrading the projector. My TV is SD too, so the SDTV tuners are just fine for now.
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post #174 of 236 Old 05-06-2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrBri99 View Post

The LG DR787T takes about 13 seconds to show the LG logo, and about 18-20 to show a TV or DVD image.

Just got my DR787T today, and this was the first thing I noticed...talk about annoying!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyslav View Post

It seems like it retains the channel line ups from cable and OTA without having to run a full scan time when you switch from one to the other. The thing is though that you still have to start the scan and abort it.

That's exactly what I came in here to find out. I don't have an antenna yet, just using it for NTSC/QAM so far. But I really don't want to have to rescan EVERY time I swap from cable to antenna!
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post #175 of 236 Old 05-06-2007, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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But I really don't want to have to rescan EVERY time I swap from cable to antenna!

Don't have to, just start the scan and abort it right away, you'll change the tuner mode and all previously scanned channels are already saved. This was the deciding factor for me to keep the LG, none of the other recorders retained both line ups.
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post #176 of 236 Old 05-13-2007, 05:50 AM
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Looking for a DVD recorder w/ATSC tuner

First purchase - Panasonic DMREZ17K

Auto time would not set. Set using manual time option. Next morning time was 2 hours off. Tried several times with same result. Returned.

Second purchase - Samsung AR760

Liked this machine a lot. Good reception of all local analog and digital OTA channels. Easy and intuitive operation. Problem - it "locked up" on digital channel. Couldn't change channel. It simply locked in on an OTA scene and retained that scene. Strange! Had to unplug to get it to operate again. No pattern. Happened 3 times. Returned (too bad, I liked this one)

Third purchase - LGDR787T

Not as easy to operate or as intuitive as the Samsung - about on par with the Panasonic. Cannot receive the most distant OTA digital channel (could receive on the Panasonic and Samsung - will have to try better indoor antenna). Don't like having to go through all digital and analog channels to get to station I want. This can be overcome by direct entry or by setting up most used channels as "Favorites". Only manual clock set. Everything is working as expected - decent picture and recording. If nothing pops up, this will probably be a keeper.
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post #177 of 236 Old 05-13-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomel View Post


Third purchase - LGDR787T

Don't like having to go through all digital and analog channels to get to station I want. .

What I did on mine is remove the analog channels in which I could get a digital equivalent...I was only using OTA, so it only ended up being about 3 channels in analog in which I couldn't get the digital version. In 18 months it won't matter anyway...analog channels = 0

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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post #178 of 236 Old 05-14-2007, 01:03 PM
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[quote=mkjnovak]It could not correctly display PBSHD, a channel I would most like to record. Every other 1080i station was displayed properly, but my PBS affiliate apparently uses a VBR ATSC standard that makes the LG choke.
QUOTE]

Interesting, my ancient Integra satellite/OTA HD tuner also chokes on the TampaBay PBS station.

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post #179 of 236 Old 05-14-2007, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkjnovak View Post

It could not correctly display PBSHD, a channel I would most like to record. Every other 1080i station was displayed properly, but my PBS affiliate apparently uses a VBR ATSC standard that makes the LG choke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobOnTampaBay View Post

Interesting, my ancient Integra satellite/OTA HD tuner also chokes on the TampaBay PBS station.

Just a WAG: Make sure you've got the LG clock set manually and DST is OFF.

I know this sounds weird, but many electronic components have been bitten by the "DST bug," officially called the "Y2K7 Problem." Read more here.

I say this cause I saw that only PBS was involved, and they send a time signal that has probably been updated for the new, 2007 DST dates and timing. This may be causing a "conflict" in your unit since it prob. has been programmed for the old DST timing.

An easy thing to test?
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post #180 of 236 Old 05-14-2007, 01:48 PM
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since I can't find the manual online and I'm trying to trouble shoot without it can anyone tell me if there is a button on the remote to change from 480i / 480p etc. My grandfather fell asleep and hit buttons on the remote and can no longer get an image. My thinking is that he hit the resolution button since it boots up but they see nothing on the screen.

At no point in your rambling, incoherent post were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this forum is now dumber for having read it.

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