Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 139 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4141 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

It doesn't matter. There have already been discussions in this thread about the power supplies being pretty much at it's limit in terms of output with the stock drives, and how the larger drives pull more current and thus more power. Add to this, the extra draw of the adapter, which is probably fairly small, but still an additional load, and you could affect the stock power supply, if the previous discussions are indeed accurate.

I was only offering a caution, not claiming that anything would burst into flame, or immediately fail.

Please point me to the discussion concerning the power supplies of these units.
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post #4142 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailn View Post

A question for the dvdr mavens:

Is there a way to get jacket art ( a .jpg in the /jacket_p subdirectory on the dvd) to be written when making a dvd on a dvd recorder. It would be of great help when using these disc in a jukebox.

No.
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post #4143 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auskck View Post

Please point me to the discussion concerning the power supplies of these units.

Read this ENTIRE thread from the beginning, or do a search, if you doubt the subject has been mentioned. Wajo even remarked about the power supplies in is most recent post.
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post #4144 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

I agree, the SATA drive itself should last just as long as the IDE drive, however keep one thing in mind. There is no such thing as a truly "free-ride" and that IDE-SATA adapter is also going to consume power, which will add to the load on the power supply, thus you'll be pulling more power than you would if you used the IDE drive with the same power specifications. This extra load on the power supply could indeed hurt the longevity of the unit, but should not affect the drive's lifespan.

If you go back to post #4062 on page 136, the original drive that Auskck was discussing was the WD5000AAKB which is the Western Digital Caviar Blue EIDE drive series.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Auskck, but somewhere along the line you chose to go with the WD5000AAKS instead which is the identical twin in SATA format. If you'd like to check out the specs for yourself, follow the links (the power draw and physical dimensions are exactly the same on both 500GB drives).

I was considering buying the WD5000AAKB, but if Auskck's WD5000AAKS works out, I see no reason why the EIDE version wouldn't perform just as well. I understand we all have different levels of paranoia about our DVDR's. Rightfully so, considering all indicators point to them being "the end of the line." I only have one H2160. When mine goes a year old in 10 months, I consider this replacement to be a "reasonable" risk considering everything we've discussed...just one computer guy's opinion.

Size (GB)
Model #
UsageW IdleW StdbyW Height in
160 HDP725016GLAT80 6.1 3.3 0.5 1.03
500 WD5000AAKB/S 8.77 8.40 0.97 1.028

Usage W increase: +2.67
Idle W increase: +5.1
Standby W increase: +0.47
No fit issues (same height).

Those are the numbers going from a Hitachi Deskstar 160GB (found in my Magnavox H2160) to the Western Digital 500GB EIDE and/or SATA drive, as Auskck will be testing very soon.
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post #4145 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

Read this ENTIRE thread from the beginning, or do a search, if you doubt the subject has been mentioned. Wajo even remarked about the power supplies in is most recent post.

Forget it.
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post #4146 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

If you go back to post #4062 on page 136, the original drive that Auskck was discussing was the WD5000AAKB which is the Western Digital Caviar Blue EIDE drive series.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, Auskck, but somewhere along the line you chose to go with the WD5000AAKS instead which is the identical twin in SATA format. If you'd like to check out the specs for yourself, follow the links (the power draw and physical dimensions are exactly the same on both 500GB drives).

I was considering buying the WD5000AAKB, but if Auskck's WD5000AAKS works out, I see no reason why the EIDE version wouldn't perform just as well. I understand we all have different levels of paranoia about our DVDR's. Rightfully so, considering all indicators point to them being "the end of the line." I only have one H2160. When mine goes a year old in 10 months, I consider this replacement to be a "reasonable" risk considering everything we've discussed...just one computer guy's opinion.

Size (GB)
Model #
UsageW IdleW StdbyW Height in
160 HDP725016GLAT80 6.1 3.3 0.5 1.03
500 WD5000AAKB/S 8.77 8.40 0.97 1.028

Usage W increase: +2.67
Idle W increase: +5.1
Standby W increase: +0.47
No fit issues (same height).

Those are the numbers going from a Hitachi Deskstar 160GB (found in my Magnavox H2160) to the Western Digital 500GB EIDE and/or SATA drive, as Auskck will be testing very soon.

I will be testing with a Hitachi 500GB drive.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...tent-_-text-_-

Factory Spec Sheet:
http://www.hitachigst.com/portal/bin...0_DS_FINAL.pdf

UPS Tracking says it is out for delivery.
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post #4147 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:25 AM
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As a new guy here I am overwhelmed by 139 pages including 4166(posts (now 4177). I know it is kind of late for shoulda's but in the future could you consider breaking out some new topics into separate threads?

For example, all posts dealing with physical modifications or repairs could be in a separate thread where it would be easier to follow for those who want to do those things. And those who are only trying to find out operating procedures would have an easier time finding information on a different thread, free from mechanical changes and upgrades. For example--topics requiring a screwdriver and those topics not requiring a screwdriver could be separate.

I bet somewhere in the 4166 posts there is already a suggestion for doing this. This forum provides wonderful tools for separating topics but those tools are not being used.

Don't mean to be a cranky butt. Just a frustrated observation and hope for a better future.
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post #4148 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzie2 View Post

As a new guy here I am overwhelmed by 139 pages including 4166(posts (now 4177). I know it is kind of late for shoulda's but in the future could you consider breaking out some new topics into separate threads?

For example, all posts dealing with physical modifications or repairs could be in a separate thread where it would be easier to follow for those who want to do those things. And those who are only trying to find out operating procedures would have an easier time finding information on a different thread, free from mechanical changes and upgrades. For example--topics requiring a screwdriver and those topics not requiring a screwdriver could be separate.

I bet somewhere in the 4166 posts there is already a suggestion for doing this. This forum provides wonderful tools for separating topics but those tools are not being used.

Don't mean to be a cranky butt. Just a frustrated observation and hope for a better future.

If you start on page 1 most of the links to important items are already there. As items become important wajo adds them to page 1
Page 1 is always up to date thanks to wajo.
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post #4149 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzie2 View Post

As a new guy here I am overwhelmed by 139 pages including 4166(posts (now 4177). I know it is kind of late for shoulda's but in the future could you consider breaking out some new topics into separate threads?

Here's a link to that 1st page mentioned by Auskck, isolated as a single post so the following MANY posts don't cause confusion.

This current discussion of using SATA HDDs instead of PATA is mentioned in the SKIP ### subject as a work in progress. When we get all the answers we need, that info will also be added to that SKIP ### post, or borken out as a separate subject... can't do that now cuz there are many links throughout many posts to the SKIP ### subject for HDD info... have to deal with that when the time comes.
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post #4150 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

Read this ENTIRE thread from the beginning, or do a search, if you doubt the subject has been mentioned. Wajo even remarked about the power supplies in is most recent post.

Wajo is cautious about adding untested info to his guide. That's a good thing. IMO, he's just trying to protect those less informed. Here's what he has written so far on the subject:

Slightly higher power used by the 250GB and larger drives *should* be OK for the power supply but this is still unconfirmed. Using another brand/model of HDD could cause serious installation or power-related problems. Also, the HDD used in our DVDRs are built for cable/sat STB DVRs, can record multiple streams of user data, and have the appropriate cache management capabilities for our units.

I assembled the following charts on a "best-efforts" basis and only by referring to the drive mfgr's spec sheet noted in the tables. So far, no one has actually purchased one of the drives listed in the tables and replaced it in their DVDRs. Until that happens, this is still just a "best-efforts" ref. for you. Please check the pdf specs yourself to make sure the info is accurate, or check posts regularly to see if anyone has done a replacement with a listed drive... only then can we have "absolute" confidence in the listed info.

We need a few pioneers like Auskck, DigaDo, Raunch, etc. They are doing us a great service in being those first testers.

Another way of looking at a 5W increase in power draw is like this. It's a 0.04 amp increase. That's not a lot of amps to add to the power supply. IMO, it would be totally irresponsible to manufacture electronics to specs so tight that they cannot handle an additional 0.04 amps. See post #4180 (bad example).

Now that I see Auskck is using the Hitachi, his Idle W will go to 4.8. The 500GB drive is double platter design where the 250GB and below are single platter with 3.3 Idle W for the PATA-133 type. There's even less difference in power draw than my previous example with the WD drive.
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post #4151 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Now that I see Auskck is using the Hitachi, his Idle W will go to 4.8. The 500GB drive is double platter design where the 250GB and below are single platter with 3.3 Idle W for the PATA-133 type. There's even less difference in power draw than my previous example with the WD drive.

One reviewer on the Newegg page said his drive died right after he copied lots of stuff to it, but another said this about "heat":

"They heat up but not enough to be of any concern, and they make a tiny noise thats really only audible if the room is silent when they begin working after being idle."

My personal pref. would be to use only Seagate drives as there's lots of info that Seagate is "the best"... wow, can't wait for responses to that!
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post #4152 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 09:59 AM
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Thanks guys. I guess there is order to the chaos after all.

Please forgive me. Remember, I already started out Dizzie2.
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post #4153 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Wajo is cautious about adding untested info to his guide. That's a good thing. IMO, he's just trying to protect those less informed. Here's what he has written so far on the subject:

Slightly higher power used by the 250GB and larger drives *should* be OK for the power supply but this is still unconfirmed. Using another brand/model of HDD could cause serious installation or power-related problems. Also, the HDD used in our DVDRs are built for cable/sat STB DVRs, can record multiple streams of user data, and have the appropriate cache management capabilities for our units.

I assembled the following charts on a "best-efforts" basis and only by referring to the drive mfgr's spec sheet noted in the tables. So far, no one has actually purchased one of the drives listed in the tables and replaced it in their DVDRs. Until that happens, this is still just a "best-efforts" ref. for you. Please check the pdf specs yourself to make sure the info is accurate, or check posts regularly to see if anyone has done a replacement with a listed drive... only then can we have "absolute" confidence in the listed info.

We need a few pioneers like Auskck, DigaDo, Raunch, etc. They are doing us a great service in being those first testers.

Another way of looking at a 5W increase in power draw is like this. It's a 0.04 amp increase. That's not a lot of amps to add to the power supply. IMO, it would be totally irresponsible to manufacture electronics to specs so tight that they cannot handle an additional 0.04 amps.

Now that I see Auskck is using the Hitachi, his Idle W will go to 4.8. The 500GB drive is double platter design where the 250GB and below are single platter with 3.3 Idle W for the PATA-133 type. There's even less difference in power draw than my previous example with the WD drive.

Actually the 5 watt increase is a rather large increase in current draw on the ps output. The power to a hard disk is supplied at both 5 vdc and 12 vdc. I do not have the specs for the drive in question, but the increase it could be as much as 1 amp ( if all increase is at 5 vdc )

Sailn...
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post #4154 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 10:22 AM
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IMO Newegg customer reviews should be taken with a grain of salt.
I always read them, but you need to consider the expertise of the average poster.
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post #4155 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

One reviewer on the Newegg page said his drive died right after he copied lots of stuff to it, but another said this about "heat":

"They heat up but not enough to be of any concern, and they make a tiny noise thats really only audible if the room is silent when they begin working after being idle."

My personal pref. would be to use only Seagate drives as there's lots of info that Seagate is "the best"... wow, can't wait for responses to that!

Okay, well, for those Seagate lovers, there's the ST3500418AS 500GB SATA drive (same price as Auskck's Hitachi):

Size (GB)
Model #
UsageW IdleW StdbyW Height in
160 HDP725016GLAT80 6.1 3.3 0.5 1.03
500 ST3500418AS < 8 < 5 n/a 0.78

From the Seagate Barracuda data sheet (pdf):

Best-Fit Applications
  • Workstations
  • Desktop RAID
  • Gamer PCs
  • High-end PCs
  • Mainstream PCs
  • USB/Firewire/eSATA personal external storage


Darn...I was hoping they'd say Philips and Magnavox DVD Recorders.

Anyone have any objections to this one?
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post #4156 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 10:30 AM - Thread Starter
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On further review...

I consolidated all the HDD/DVD Self-Check, Initialization, and Replacement info in a separate subject here.

The main list (page 1) will have that subject listed separately. To keep old links usable, I kept a ref. to the old SKIP 079 info in the SKIP ### subject, with a link directing readers to the new subject.
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post #4157 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Okay, well, for those Seagate lovers, there's the ST3500418AS 500GB SATA drive (same price as Auskck's Hitachi):

Size (GB)
Model #
UsageW IdleW StdbyW Height in
160 HDP725016GLAT80 6.1 3.3 0.5 1.03
500 ST3500418AS < 8 < 5 n/a 0.78

From the Seagate Barracuda data sheet (pdf):

Best-Fit Applications
  • Workstations
  • Desktop RAID
  • Gamer PCs
  • High-end PCs
  • Mainstream PCs
  • USB/Firewire/eSATA personal external storage


Darn...I was hoping they'd say Philips and Magnavox DVD Recorders.

Anyone have any objections to this one?

The proof will be in the pudding once UPS gets here, My 3575 is ready for the transplant.
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post #4158 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailn View Post

Actually the 5 watt increase is a rather large increase in current draw on the ps output. The power to a hard disk is supplied at both 5 vdc and 12 vdc. I do not have the specs for the drive in question, but the increase it could be as much as 1 amp ( if all increase is at 5 vdc )

My bad. Sailn is correct. I was just looking at the +12 V rail only, but even at that it's 0.4, not 0.04 amps. My apologies.

Startup current (+12V Peak) for the Seagate Barracuda is 2.0A +/- 10%. Hitachi Deskstar lists 2.0A (+12V), 1.1A (+5V) which increases to 2.0A (+12V), 1.3A (+5V) when moving to their SATA line. So a +0.2A increase on the +5V rail for Auskck's setup. I wish I could give more detail on the Seagate's specs, but their data sheets aren't very detailed.
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post #4159 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 12:19 PM
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Here's the pudding proof the adapter when installed sticks up to high you would be unable to close the case. But most important I can't get the drive to format so far. I will continue fussing for awhile.
If any finds a different adapter let me know ASAP.
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post #4160 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by auskck View Post

Here's the pudding proof the adapter when installed sticks up to high you would be unable to close the case. But most important I can't get the drive to format so far. I will continue fussing for awhile.
If any finds a different adapter let me know ASAP.

Did you experience any difficulties with the power supply connection using this wire?
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post #4161 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 01:01 PM
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As reported above I upgraded my Magnavox 2080 to a 160GB Seagate ST3160215ACE hard drive using the SKIP 079 utility. This hard drive is listed in Wajo's hard drive table as a suitable replacement/upgrade hard drive for the 2080.

The IDE hard drives that may be used in Philips and Magnavox HDD/DVD recorders are becoming harder to find.

For those that have a problematic hard drive in a Magnavox 2080 (with an expired warranty) here are two alternatives:

1-Replace the hard drive with a larger model found in Wajo's table.

2-Replace the hard drive with one of the same brand, model and size that originally came installed in the 2080.

My 2080 came with the 80GB Western Digital WD800BB hard drive. Yesterday I came across one internet store that’s currently offering that WD800BB hard drive for $15.99 with shipping beginning at $8.18:

http://www.surpluscomputers.com/3480...eide-hard.html

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #4162 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Did you experience any difficulties with the power supply connection using this wire?

No none what so ever, I tried another sata drive that has both power connections. Both drives spun up okay. I replaced the original drive no data lost, thats a good thing. Just left the top sitting on case didn't button it up yet. Still in think mode. Like I said earlier nothing lost, the drive with fit nicely into my HTPC.
When I get a chance I will install adapter in the PC just to make sure it is functioning.
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post #4163 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by auskck View Post

No none what so ever, I tried another sata drive that has both power connections. Both drives spun up okay. I replaced the original drive no data lost, thats a good thing. Just left the top sitting on case didn't button it up yet. Still in think mode. Like I said earlier nothing lost, the drive with fit nicely into my HTPC.
When I get a chance I will install adapter in the PC just to make sure it is functioning.

This drive won't format, but if you get one that will, install it upside down (just lay it in tray upside down till you see if it'll format, then work on how to secure?).

Here's a Q&A about installing upside down.
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post #4164 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by auskck View Post

Here's the pudding proof the adapter when installed sticks up to high you would be unable to close the case. But most important I can't get the drive to format so far. I will continue fussing for awhile.
If any finds a different adapter let me know ASAP.

How bout this one?
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post #4165 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

How bout this one?

While I've never opened my 3575 or 2160, my 2080 presents these clearance considerations:
LL
LL

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #4166 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

While I've never opened my 3575 or 2160, my 2080 presents these clearance considerations:

The black connector piece connects to the PCB in your pic, where the ribbon cable is now, and the red cable connects to the HDD (plus the other power cable to the power supply).

The black piece is 2.2" wide, 1.57" high, 0.48" thick.

Would the 1.57" height plus some for the plug-in ends fit when connected to the PCB?

Here's the link again.
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post #4167 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auskck View Post

Here's the pudding proof the adapter when installed sticks up to high you would be unable to close the case. But most important I can't get the drive to format so far. I will continue fussing for awhile.
If any finds a different adapter let me know ASAP.

This one looks pretty compact, but I know nothing else about it or the vendor.
http://www.cooldrives.com/sahadradtoid.html
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post #4168 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

How bout this one?

No it's to deep, not much room to play with. It's got to be short and only 1/2" deep at the most. Thanks for the try.
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post #4169 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 02:22 PM
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FYI:Tried to install adapter into the PC, no go lots of errors when booting up, could not see the drive to format it when system came up.
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post #4170 of 27999 Old 03-24-2009, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

The black connector piece connects to the PCB in your pic, where the ribbon cable is now, and the red cable connects to the HDD (plus the other power cable to the power supply).

The black piece is 2.2" wide, 1.57" high, 0.48" thick.

Would the 1.57" height plus some for the plug-in ends fit when connected to the PCB?

Here's the link again.

My 2080 is closed up and back in use so I'm unable to give clearance dimensions.

There is a gender issue between the 2080 HDD adapter and the linked IDE adapter:
LL

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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