Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 197 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #5881 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

In the meantime, I tried two of the "Skips", and got this
Skip 321
LD operating time
Time DVD-WR: 0:00 *
Time DVD-RD: 0:11
Time CD: 0.00


Skip 123
F/W VERSION DISP
Model Name: E2M01UD
DTV-S Version: 0x14
FE Version: R50_011_000
BE Version: HD5A23370H1E
TT Version: [email protected]
DVD Unique ID: 00E0A900 0006D1C6
LD Adjustment: ok
Disc Adjustment: ok
Default Setting: Enter
Exit: Return[/color]

Ummm...does any of this mean anything?

* Did I transpose the "W" and the "R" here?

It means you got an original-original unit, prob. mfg May 2008 or Aug-Sep 2008, and you have no WRite and just a little ReaD time on the laser. Don't think you transposed.

A SKIP 079 followed by power off (not OK) will show how many hours of HDD ON time.
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post #5882 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 11:50 AM
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I've owned a Toshiba RD-XS35 SU DVD recorder for about 3 years. It has a 165 GB HDD, a lot of editing capabilities, etc; in short, a great machine, and hasn't given me one bit of trouble. But what it doesn't have is a digital tuner (nor a HDMI connector, of course). My locals are from an OTA outside antenna, so any locals I record has to come through my Directv HD Receiver, which ties the receiver up. So lately I decided to research the latest Tosh DVD recorders with diital tuning. To my surprise I found they no longer contained a HDD. That's crazy, I thought (who would want a recorder without a hard drive??). So I checked Panasonic : No HDD!!..JVC: No HDD!..Sony:No..What's going on?? Is there a new law forbidding HDD's?.

So where to turn but to the AVSForum. Once I found the thread for DVD Recorders, I clicked on it and hit paydirt on the very first post, by one "wajo". All I can say, wajo, is I'm amazed at what you've put into this thread. WOW! Kudo's to you! Of course, many others have contributed as well. Anyway, it looked like the Magnavox 2160 was just the ticket, so I ordered one from Walmart.com, and should arrive next week.Then I began to take closer note betwen the 2160 (2008 model) and the 2160A (2009)model, and thet the 2160 may be preferable. The assumption is the one from Walmart is the 2160A. Then noted the posts indicating that the 2160 refurbished was obtained from J&R for about $100 less than the 2160A, and the buyers were quite satisfied with the refurbished unit. So quick like a bunny I ordered the 2160 from J&R (which should also wrrive next week). At first my thought was to return the 2160A to Walmart, but now I'm having second thoughts. With the situation of limited DVD Recorders with HDD's, perhaps I should keep them both. What say you? Sorry for the long post, but mainly wanted to show appreciation to all the contributers to this thread, especially wajo.
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post #5883 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

What's "odd", at least compared to my channel lineups and cableco, is that your TV and the 2160A MATCH subchannel numbers.

My 3575 and 2160 both put my cablecos digital channels in completely diff. subchannel numberis (but same stations), like my CBS-HD, NBC-HD, ABC-HD are:
TV...89-712, 89-713, 89-733
DVDR...89.1, 89.2, 89.3

Since you get SOME digital subchannels in a group, doesn't sound like the tuner is not working, just not mapping correctly. That could still mean a defect in the tuner or soimething in your cableco's signal.

Not sure this is solveable, tho, so might have to return that unit and get a J&R original 2160?

What are the signal strengths of the channels surrounding those that show as "Scrambled"?

Signal strength shows 90. (and this is after the visit of the Comcast person)
I just jumped in and bought one 2160 RefurBished at J&R.
Will see how this one works ...
Thanks for your help.
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post #5884 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by capra1628 View Post

What's going on?? Is there a new law forbidding HDD's?.

So where to turn but to the AVSForum. Once I found the thread for DVD Recorders, I clicked on it and hit paydirt on the very first post...

Then noted the posts indicating that the 2160 refurbished was obtained from J&R for about $100 less than the 2160A, and the buyers were quite satisfied with the refurbished unit. So quick like a bunny I ordered the 2160 from J&R (which should also wrrive next week). At first my thought was to return the 2160A to Walmart, but now I'm having second thoughts. With the situation of limited DVD Recorders with HDD's, perhaps I should keep them both. What say you? Sorry for the long post, but mainly wanted to show appreciation to all the contributers to this thread, especially wajo.

You're right that many people have made this thread as helpful and thorough as it is today, so kudos all around!

I've got three of these units... some people have many more... to cover all the daily and weekly shows we like to record, watch and delete. My VHS home movies have long ago been copied to DVDs, so now just enjoying the crap out of these things.

I think you might be wise to have more than one HDD unit that operates in virtually identical manner, but I'd opt for two of the original units from J&R.

You can dub DVDs in the "A" unit and then Finalize in the J&R original until Funai delivers a FW update and, in case they don't, that'd at least be a workaround.

The ideal pair are the original 2160 and a 3575 or 3576, but the latter are hard to find and sometimes pricey now... a pair of 2160/3575 or 3576 operate the same way, essentially, but their remotes don't clash. None of these units have RC codes that can be changed for multiple units.
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post #5885 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by sydyen View Post

Gastrof and Trucmuche seem to have a similar Comcast situation as me.

The TV and DVR lineups are 'almost' the same on QAM. Those which are one or two subchannels off only occur in a couple of banks e.g. 42.5/42.5 42.6/42.7 42.7/42.8 42.9/42.11 and these seem like tuner frequency anomalies.

Sydyen - I have also this sub-channel off by 1 digit for a few channels but no biggie to me.

Quote:


The "Local HDTV Info and Reception" Forum has good info about tuner issues and there may be a thread for your local area.

Yes I went through that also for my area, but did not see anything pertinent to tuner or Comcast.

Quote:


If you are feeding TV IN from DVR OUT the TV is getting a better signal because the DVR slightly amplifies it.

Correct - That's how I connect : wall cable -> DVDR IN -> DVDR OUT -> TV IN
and DVDR HDMI -> TV HDMI

Quote:


Have you tried using your DTAs to find the actual QAM channel?

Tune to a channel and hold INFO to get into the diagnostic screen. The frequency and program number will appear e.g. 693 Mhz program 7. Look up the frequency at http://www.csgnetwork.com/tvfreqtable.html e.g. 693 MHz is >691.24 for 107 and <697.25 for 108 so the actual QAM is 107.7

Thanks for this tip - Did not know it.
And I tried the DTA info with the TV freq table, and too bad, I found the exact same QAM number than what I have now.

Quote:


Comcast has educated its workforce on what they need to know about STBs and overall signal strength, and not much else. If the tech can even pronounce QAM much less understand your problem you will be in luck. I had a tech watching 92.1 insist that NBC was only available on Comcast via STB on Channel 3 and that using QAM seemed 'illegal' to him.

That is so funny b/c the Comcast person said to me a similar thing.
"there is no such thing as 11-1 or 86-10 channels" while my LCD TV was on.
He recabled a few wires in the box on the street and in the house.
But I did not see any dongle or filter on my street cable line.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Anyway I bought a Refurbished 2160 at J&R, hopefully it will be an original 2160, and I will do the tuner test. And will report back here.
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post #5886 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 01:31 PM
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Over a period of months of use I’ve noticed a possible anomaly with my 2160 of August 2008 manufacture.

When the initial high speed dub of two or more titles concludes, and the title list shows remaining open space sufficient for additional recording(s) I sometimes fill up the space with one or more recordings (shorts, trailers, promos) of two to eleven minute duration. In the dubbing menu these short recordings are only set up for dubbing if they will “fit” with high-speed dubbing. Occasionally, once the high speed dub is confirmed there is another screen that mentions/asks something like “the recording may not be completed due to space limitations. Continue, yes or no?” I answer yes. Usually the recording(s) are completed satisfactorily. Sometimes, as the high speed dub is nearing the end of the dubbing process, an error box, something like “recording failed” may be displayed. Once the error screen clears, the title list may show that remaining open time on the disc is only around half the original length of the “failed” recording. The “failed” recording does not appear among the disc titles. A visual inspection of the recording surface finds that the “failed” recording has taken up perhaps half the space it would have occupied if the dubbing had been successful. I’m guessing that the dub is spooled to RAM and written to disc in one or more blocks. When the dub fails the last block that contains the "title listing" information is not written to disc. The disc is not damaged by this “failed” recording. The disc may be finalized as normal.

The most recent incident was certainly not any fault of the machine. I noticed that I had been sloppy in my handling of the disc. There was a somewhat oily finger print near the outside edge extending into the burning area of the disc. I cleaned this area before attempting to finalize the disc. Finalizing was normal.

I mention this as a possible “anomaly” as the same set of circumstances has not caused a failed dub with my Philips 3575 of August 2007 manufacture or my Magnavox 2080 of July 2007 manufacture. These two older machines have certainly had more use than my 2160 of August 2008 manufacture. With these machines if a high speed dub “fits” it seems to me that the recording has been successful.

I don’t yet have sufficient experience with my February 2008 3576 or December 2008 2160 to determine if this anomaly is present in these machines. The utilization of these machines does not provide short “filler” recordings to squeeze into limited remaining disc space.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #5887 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 01:46 PM
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Got the Magnavox on Thursday. I was surprised to see that it was shipped to me from Wal-Mart in its original box, with no protective outer carton/padding, etc.

No matter. The unit arrived in perfect condition, and set-up was a breeze given its link to the Philips I own. The only thing that bugs me is the remote. I get that somebody someplace felt a need to "differentiate" the Maggie's remote from that of the Philips, but ergonomically speaking this thing is the pits. Tiny buttons with hard-to-read labels just don't cut it.

What I wish they had done was to copy the layout of the Philips remote and just slap the Magnavox label on it. Until this past Thursday I never realized how well the Philips was laid out, until I got the 2160A and put its sorry excuse for a remote thru its paces. It works, sure, but it's still a pain to use.

Overall I am well pleased with the Maggie's performance. I daisy-chained it with the Philips for the time being, and what recordings I've done with it thus far look just fine. And a sticker on the back of the recorder shows that the build-date for this 2160A was May 2009.
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post #5888 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold4T7 View Post

Got the Magnavox on Thursday. I was surprised to see that it was shipped to me from Wal-Mart in its original box, with no protective outer carton/padding, etc.

No matter. The unit arrived in perfect condition, and set-up was a breeze given its link to the Philips I own. The only thing that bugs me is the remote. I get that somebody someplace felt a need to "differentiate" the Maggie's remote from that of the Philips, but ergonomically speaking this thing is the pits. Tiny buttons with hard-to-read labels just don't cut it.

What I wish they had done was to copy the layout of the Philips remote and just slap the Magnavox label on it. Until this past Thursday I never realized how well the Philips was laid out, until I got the 2160A and put its sorry excuse for a remote thru its paces. It works, sure, but it's still a pain to use.

Overall I am well pleased with the Maggie's performance . . . the build-date for this 2160A was May 2009.

My 2160 of August 2008 manufacture (purchased in December) was shipped in the retail box with the WalMart address label affixed, just as yours.

The attached photo shows the Philips 3575/3576 remote on the left, the Magnavox 2080 remote in the middle and the Magnavox 2160 remote on the right. And the 2160 remote has tiny buttons with hard-to-read labels, is that right?
LL

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post #5889 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

My 2160 of August 2008 manufacture (purchased in December) was shipped in the retail box with the WalMart address label affixed, just as yours.

The attached photo shows the Philips 3575/3576 remote on the left, the Magnavox 2080 remote in the middle and the Magnavox 2160 remote on the right. And the 2160 remote has tiny buttons with hard-to-read buttons, is that right?

Everything's relative. Until just now I hadn't seen a pic of the 2080 remote before, fair enough? I was generalizing, I just happen to think the Philips remote is superior.
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post #5890 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

...Using Pause and single-frame moves in Scene Delete edit mode, I made cuts exactly where a red and green diamond matched or coincided... pointing at each other exactly. These don't come that often so there's no way to lose track later when observing the HSD effects.

Then I HSD a copy and played back with PAUSE and Still Frame moves, to see where the diamonds were now. It was easy to see where the diamonds had met, then went on by, so I counted the frame "offset" with still-frame moves, and the cuts were always later than I set them. It was also easy to find the edit points to start my measurements cuz that's the only places where chapter marks were (since I had auto-chapter off during recording).

My "off" points started at ~4 frames at the beginning of my test titles and progressed to ~14 frames towards the end...

As always, thanks for the guidance. The extent of your testing on these machines is pretty remarkable.

I decided to start with a smaller project -- rather than the 6 hr recording -- to get accustomed to editing. I've trimmed down several shows (removing commercials) to the following:
  1. 35:02 (LP)
  2. 1:24:52 (LP)
  3. 2:40 (LP)
  4. 45:17 (SP)
  5. 27:42 (LP)

Well, I thought this would be an easier start at recording...then I realized I had an SP thrown in to complicate things.

My blank TY 8X DVD-R shows 4424MB available. If I try to throw all 5 titles on 1 disc, it will only allow an EP recording (unacceptable). I tried taking off the little 2:40 LP recording, but it still only fits in EP mode.

Next, I picked titles 1 and 2. They can barely go on "SP" (4420MB / 4424MB) but does that even make sense to do? I mean, the original recording is "LP" so I don't see how re-recording at SP is going to improve the image quality.

I do have "Make Recording Compatible" turned on in the options. I was going to leave Auto Chapters "On" at 10 minute intervals to make navigating the disc a little easier.

How am I doing so far?
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post #5891 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold4T7 View Post

Everything's relative. Until just now I hadn't seen a pic of the 2080 remote before, fair enough? I was generalizing, I just happen to think the Philips remote is superior.

When the 2160 first appeared, people were comparing the remotes and some said the 2160's was better cuz the 3575/3576 remote had small buttons and odd positions.

I defended the 3575/3576 remote, which I had use for 1-1/2 years up to that point, saying it was easy to get used to and I didn't need much if any light to know which buttons I needed for most common, repetitive tasks. The button shapes helped me find the approp. button(s).

I've now got used to both remotes and really can't say I prefer either anymore... I just like the fact they don't operate the other unit in the stack!

Here's my take on the 3575 remote (#6 in the list) plus other comments that appeared in national reviews when that model first came out.
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post #5892 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

As always, thanks for the guidance. The extent of your testing on these machines is pretty remarkable.

I decided to start with a smaller project -- rather than the 6 hr recording -- to get accustomed to editing. I've trimmed down several shows (removing commercials) to the following:
  1. 35:02 (LP)
  2. 1:24:52 (LP)
  3. 2:40 (LP)
  4. 45:17 (SP)
  5. 27:42 (LP)

Well, I thought this would be an easier start at recording...then I realized I had an SP thrown in to complicate things.

My blank TY 8X DVD-R shows 4424MB available. If I try to throw all 5 titles on 1 disc, it will only allow an EP recording (unacceptable). I tried taking off the little 2:40 LP recording, but it still only fits in EP mode.

Next, I picked titles 1 and 2. They can barely go on "SP" (4420MB / 4424MB) but does that even make sense to do? I mean, the original recording is "LP" so I don't see how re-recording at SP is going to improve the image quality.

I do have "Make Recording Compatible" turned on in the options. I was going to leave Auto Chapters "On" at 10 minute intervals to make navigating the disc a little easier.

How am I doing so far?

Looks like your having fun and getting your monies worth.
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post #5893 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

...You'll notice the max. time for LP recordings is 3:20:00, which would add up to about 4405MB vs 4424 disc capacity.

Your LP titles add up to about 2:29:36, leaving about 00:50:00 for a 45:17 SP title.

That would mean, if the titles weren't heavily edited, the 45:17 SP title should normally also fit on the disc and allow HSD.

BUT... and there's always a BUT... I found when a title is heavily edited, like with many Scene Deletes like my NFL football game with 36+ cuts, Max. HSD Time goes down a little...

Okay. I'm learning editing down to the right file size can be more of an art than a science.

I was a little confused about how a 45:17 SP title would fit where the disc had 50:00 of LP space left. I was thinking you'd need something like 68 minutes remaining because the SP file would take up more space than the LP files. Now I'm starting to think a HSD can't be done if you want titles with two different record speeds on the same disc. Edit: More on this below

I can get titles 1, 2 3 and 4 on one disc:
  • The "High" (aka HSD) will be 4242MB / 4424MB.
  • The LP (RTD) will be 4125MB / 4424MB.

Is the "High" file size bigger because it is going to try to retain video quality of title 4? I noticed, in most instances, "High" file size is less than the RTD of a given quality, but doesn't seem to be the case when the titles are of mixed qualities.

Those overhead bits sure are tricky.

If I wanted to copy titles 2 and 4 and retain their original video quality, would I perform a "High" (HSD) of title 2, then run a "High" (HSD) of title 4 seperately -- before finalizing the disc? I'm assuming this is the only way to have 2 or more different record qualities on the same disc (run multiple recording sessions).

Edit: Oh...and one more thing! All of the titles on the HDD are of the standard format (Date, Record Time, Channel Number, Record Speed). If I want to personalize the title names on the DVD-R copy, how would I do that? I seem to recall someone mentioning that if you rename them on the HDD first, then copy to DVD, the personalized title names are lost for some reason. If so, can I change the names on the DVD-R before I finalize or are they permanent once the dubbing session is completed (since I'm not using an RW)?
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post #5894 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

As always, thanks for the guidance. The extent of your testing on these machines is pretty remarkable.

I decided to start with a smaller project -- rather than the 6 hr recording -- to get accustomed to editing. I've trimmed down several shows (removing commercials) to the following:
  1. 35:02 (LP)
  2. 1:24:52 (LP)
  3. 2:40 (LP)
  4. 45:17 (SP)
  5. 27:42 (LP)
Well, I thought this would be an easier start at recording...then I realized I had an SP thrown in to complicate things.

My blank TY 8X DVD-R shows 4424MB available. If I try to throw all 5 titles on 1 disc, it will only allow an EP recording (unacceptable). I tried taking off the little 2:40 LP recording, but it still only fits in EP mode.

Next, I picked titles 1 and 2. They can barely go on "SP" (4420MB / 4424MB) but does that even make sense to do? I mean, the original recording is "LP" so I don't see how re-recording at SP is going to improve the image quality.

I do have "Make Recording Compatible" turned on in the options. I was going to leave Auto Chapters "On" at 10 minute intervals to make navigating the disc a little easier.

How am I doing so far?

EDITED AND RE-POSTED... MADE A BASIC ERROR IN CALCULATING IN ORIGINAL POST!

First, I might have missed what you're saying... did you try JUST titles 1 and 2, or 1:59:54 LP time! If so, holy mackerel, must be a disconnect somewhere since that's not even close to the 3:20:00 or a little less I'd expect, even for heavily edited LP titles! YIKES!

Second, on to your problem regardless of #1 question...Here's the HSD help file that has a table showing "Max. HSD Times" for each rec mode.

You'll notice the Max.HSD Time for LP recordings is 3:20:00, which would add up to about 4405MB vs 4424 disc capacity.

Your LP titles add up to about 2:29:36, leaving about 00:50:00 of LP time for a 45:17 SP title... here's where calculation gets difficult... that 50 min. is NOT 50 min. of SP time/disc capacity!

Now, we've got to figure out the correlation between 50 min. of LP time/capacity to SP time/capacity.

The 50-min LP time remaining is 25% of the total LP HSD time/capacity of 200 min. (3:20:00)... 50/200=0.25. Figuring the correlation between max LP time of 200 min. and max SP time of 130 min gives 65%... 130/200=.065.

So, SP time available is 65% of the 50 min. remaining, or 32.5 min. left for that 45:17 SP title.

Your SP title has to be cut down to 32 min. or possibly less, depending on how much editing you've done, as explained below... which you don't have to read... I just had all the following in my original post, and will only apply if you find even a 32-min SP title doesn't allow HSD with all the other LP titles.

* * * * * * *
I found when a title is heavily edited, like with many Scene Deletes like my NFL football game with 36+ cuts, Max. HSD Time goes down a little. I was so proud when I got my beautiful NFL 3-1/2 hour+ game down to 2:09:xx, just under the unedited title time of 2:10:00 for SP... BUT it wouldn't go HSD. I kept trimming stuff in 10-15 sec increments and finally got to HSD with 2:08:00, so 2 minutes less than an unedited title.

Apparently, even tho HSD gets more on a disc than RTD cuz it doesn't need all the Overhead (OH) bits like a RTD does, heavy editing must be adding some of its OWN OH bits of some sort.

It appears you've run into a similar thing, except you've got FIVE titles that have been edited, prob. adding some additional OH.

I found that the jump to HSD can come with just a little trimming, and just a sec or two can make the difference... only bad part is I could never tell in advance how much trimming was needed in my tests... I developed the Max HSD Time chart by recording long and trimming just the end, in increments, till I got a "HSD" OK.

The 10-min. chaptering is ideal for providing editing help w/o getting into a "clashing chapter marker" situation, like I did when I was testing 5-min. chaptering plus heavy editing, which added more marks, etc.
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post #5895 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Okay. I'm learning editing down to the right file size can be more of an art than a science.

I was a little confused about how a 45:17 SP title would fit where the disc had 50:00 of LP space left. I was thinking you'd need something like 68 minutes remaining because the SP file would take up more space than the LP files. Now I'm starting to think a HSD can't be done if you want titles with two different record speeds on the same disc. Edit: More on this below

I can get titles 1, 2 3 and 4 on one disc:
  • The "High" (aka HSD) will be 4242MB / 4424MB.
  • The LP (RTD) will be 4125MB / 4424MB.
Is the "High" file size bigger because it is going to try to retain video quality of title 4? I noticed, in most instances, "High" file size is less than the RTD of a given quality, but doesn't seem to be the case when the titles are of mixed qualities.

Those overhead bits sure are tricky.

Mixed rec modes are no problem except in figuring the disc capacity cuz each rec mode has a different "ratio" or whatever to call it, and you have to "correlate" LP to SP time/capacity as I did in my post above and you did here also... which is much diff. than my 1st post that you quoted... I made a basic error, which is in the bold sentences in my re-posted response above this one.

Check out my post above this first!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

If I wanted to copy titles 2 and 4 and retain their original video quality, would I perform a "High" (HSD) of title 2, then run a "High" (HSD) of title 4 seperately -- before finalizing the disc? I'm assuming this is the only way to have 2 or more different record qualities on the same disc (run multiple recording sessions).

Not required at all... it's just a little complicated to figure how much of a different rec mode can fit with a number of other rec mode titles.

You always want to strive for HSD to retain quality, even tho these machines are very good with mode-conversion dubs if the originla quality is good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Edit: Oh...and one more thing! All of the titles on the HDD are of the standard format (Date, Record Time, Channel Number, Record Speed). If I want to personalize the title names on the DVD-R copy, how would I do that? I seem to recall someone mentioning that if you rename them on the HDD first, then copy to DVD, the personalized title names are lost for some reason. If so, can I change the names on the DVD-R before I finalize or are they permanent once the dubbing session is completed (since I'm not using an RW)?

You should always change the title to a personal one on the HDD and those titles will transfer to DVDs... no problem!

You can also change titles on the DVD, or clean up a mistake, but it's faster on the HDD. Index pic can also be changed, but only on the DVD before Finalizing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

First, I might have missed what you're saying... did you try JUST titles 1 and 2, or 1:59:54 LP time! If so, holy mackerel, must be a disconnect somewhere since that's not even close to the 3:20:00 or a little less I'd expect, even for heavily edited LP titles! YIKES!

JUST titles 1 and 2 would easily fit on a "High" speed dub. I wouldn't say any of the titles are heavily edited, by the way. I can see how lots and lots of cuts could make for a bigger file size, though.

In my original post, when I said titles 1 and 2 would barely fit, I was referring to a RTD, converting them to SP titles on the DVD. I question the usefulness of such a move, though. If the source material is LP, I don't know how well these DVDR's would "upconvert" to SP quality for a dub. Maybe they do this well and I'm mistaken...I'm just speculating.

As for the rest of your detailed post, the calculations you've made were along the lines of what I was thinking.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

JUST titles 1 and 2 would easily fit on a "High" speed dub. I wouldn't say any of the titles are heavily edited, by the way. I can see how lots and lots of cuts could make for a bigger file size, though.

In my original post, when I said titles 1 and 2 would barely fit, I was referring to a RTD, converting them to SP titles on the DVD. I question the usefulness of such a move, though. If the source material is LP, I don't know how well these DVDR's would "upconvert" to SP quality for a dub. Maybe they do this well and I'm mistaken...I'm just speculating.

As for the rest of your detailed post, the calculations you've made were along the lines of what I was thinking.

Here's some info on "mode-conversion" dubbing and how it retains quality, which suggests it works great when "down-converting" from a good source, but I haven't tested the reverse, like your "upconvert" example of LP to SP. Since it's all in the source, might not be worthwhile, but who knows for sure... ANOTHER TEST?
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post #5898 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

One more try at the timer/finalize problem with the 2160A.
(...)
So... for me, the one thing left that I'd test if only I had a 2160A is to delete all current timer rec programs, then set ONE single-event (one-time) timer at some far-distant time/day, then try a Format, Erase or Finalize.
(...)
With this test, we might find right away that it makes no diff., so test over... but then, it might also provide a clue for a workaround? At least it might stop me from bugging 2160A owners for hair-brained tests!

Wajo- Not sure if anyone replied to you on your test question, but I tried and still got an error E19.
(No more programs in the timer, only one program set up for 1 month from now. B/C the timer does not allow a date of more than 1 month in the future in terms of direct selection of a date).
Sorry again negative result ...
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Originally Posted by Trucmuche View Post

Wajo- Not sure if anyone replied to you on your test question, but I tried and still got an error E19.
(No more programs in the timer, only one program set up for 1 month from now. B/C the timer does not allow a date of more than 1 month in the future in terms of direct selection of a date).
Sorry again negative result ...

Drats... no one else replied, so thanks!
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FWIW, a HSD of Titles 1-4 (see post 5923) on an H2160 A with TY 8X DVD-R took 19 minutes. Not too shabby. Again, thanks for walking me through it, wajo. I even set custom index pictures, named each title, deleted the empty title, and named the disc before finalizing. Pretty fancy work for my first go at it.

I'm off to go return this H2160 A to Walmart now. I'm about 2 days short of having it for 90 days (so I'll be getting my full refund). It's a good way to send the right message to Funai that we will not accept machines with no promise of a FW fix.

I'm still debating on whether to get the H2080 or H2160 from J&R. Those refurb prices are quite reasonable. If I go for the H2080, I'm looking at getting a PATA HDD to upgrade (80GB just isn't going to cut it).

This one looks promising (the price is right anway):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rnal_Hard.html

The WD5000JBRTL is a somewhat older model of Western Digital Caviar (Newegg shows it as a "deactivated" item in their product listings). Perhaps B&H Photo just had some sitting in a warehouse for awhile? Anyway, I would like to take a look at its Power draw and/or Amp ratings on the 12V and 5V rails to compare with others. I know there are some risks associated with putting larger drives in these DVDR's, but I would be willing to become one of the next Pioneers in converting an H2080 to an H2500.

If anyone knows where I might be able to obtain that info, please post a link. I'll probably be looking to make a decision in the next 24 hours.
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post #5901 of 27986 Old 07-25-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Drats... no one else replied, so thanks!

Wajo,

I got the 2160A today from WM. I'll be glad to try any finalizing test you'll come up with

I have extended basic cable with Time Warner. My first scan for channels came up weird results, comparing with what my TV picked up (Sharp Aquos 42D64). Some QAMs that the TV got, the 2160A missed completely. Also, some subchannels are quite different (e.g. CSPAN on TV is 100.3 and 100.4 on 2160A -- US SPORT is 100.8 on TV and 100.1 on 2160A).

OTOH, analogs channels are picked up exactly on the same channels.

I tried to enter the missing QAMs manually (the QAM channels that the TV is showing), and the 2160A displays the message "Scramble program" each time.

Might this be a QAM tuner problem on the 2160/A that I recalled that someone has reported before? subchannels inconsistency is no big deal, but missing scan and showing some QAMs as "scramble" certainly indicate tuner problems?

Bodhi
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post #5902 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

FWIW, a HSD of Titles 1-4 (see post 5923) on an H2160 A with TY 8X DVD-R took 19 minutes. Not too shabby. Again, thanks for walking me through it, wajo. I even set custom index pictures, named each title, deleted the empty title, and named the disc before finalizing. Pretty fancy work for my first go at it.

I'm off to go return this H2160 A to Walmart now. I'm about 2 days short of having it for 90 days (so I'll be getting my full refund). It's a good way to send the right message to Funai that we will not accept machines with no promise of a FW fix.

I'm still debating on whether to get the H2080 or H2160 from J&R. Those refurb prices are quite reasonable. If I go for the H2080, I'm looking at getting a PATA HDD to upgrade (80GB just isn't going to cut it).

This one looks promising (the price is right anway):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rnal_Hard.html

The WD5000JBRTL is a somewhat older model of Western Digital Caviar (Newegg shows it as a "deactivated" item in their product listings). Perhaps B&H Photo just had some sitting in a warehouse for awhile? Anyway, I would like to take a look at its Power draw and/or Amp ratings on the 12V and 5V rails to compare with others. I know there are some risks associated with putting larger drives in these DVDR's, but I would be willing to become one of the next Pioneers in converting an H2080 to an H2500.

If anyone knows where I might be able to obtain that info, please post a link. I'll probably be looking to make a decision in the next 24 hours.

Try the Western Digital site for the specs.
Doesn't look like the ideal drive
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021199
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Oh no I think my unit might have died! I decided to record a movie I had on the hdd to a blank dvd. An hour later I see the display screen on my unit was completely black. I try pressing on the buttons on the remote and nothing happens. I then press the power on the front of my unit and nothing. I unplug, then plug in the unit and nothing. I left it unplugged for an hour and plug it back in. Still nothing. Has this ever happened to anyone else? I have had this unit for 2 monthes. I ordered it from Walmart.com. And I threw away the box already. What should I do?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henree View Post

Oh no I think my unit might have died! I decided to record a movie I had on the hdd to a blank dvd. An hour later I see the display screen on my unit was completely black. I try pressing on the buttons on the remote and nothing happens. I then press the power on the front of my unit and nothing. I unplug, then plug in the unit and nothing. I left it unplugged for an hour and plug it back in. Still nothing. Has this ever happened to anyone else? I have had this unit for 2 monthes. I ordered it from Walmart.com. And I threw away the box already. What should I do?

There is a fuse on the power PCB you might check
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post #5905 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

This one looks promising (the price is right anway):

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rnal_Hard.html

The WD5000JBRTL is a somewhat older model of Western Digital Caviar (Newegg shows it as a "deactivated" item in their product listings). Perhaps B&H Photo just had some sitting in a warehouse for awhile? Anyway, I would like to take a look at its Power draw and/or Amp ratings on the 12V and 5V rails to compare with others. I know there are some risks associated with putting larger drives in these DVDR's, but I would be willing to become one of the next Pioneers in converting an H2080 to an H2500.

If anyone knows where I might be able to obtain that info, please post a link. I'll probably be looking to make a decision in the next 24 hours.

Here's the WD info on that drive, click "Specifications" tab.

Its power draw are about the same as the Seagate, where read/write power in same range as idle (8.2/9.3).

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 8.77 Watts
Idle 8.40 Watts
Standby 0.97 Watts
Sleep 0.97 Watts

I got to the WD page thru newegg.com, which is a great site to find HDDs cuz they seem to always have a link to the "Manufaturer Contact Info" with a link to the "Manufaturer Product Page" in the bottom left of their product Overview pages. Here's their page on that WD drive.

Here's a link to a Hitachi 500GB, the one listed in Table II in the SKIP 079 help file, with less power draw. I recently found an article on Hitachi HDDs that suggests its a good brand for lobgevity. Here's what I recently added to the SKIP 079 help file (I'm not recommending anything, just sayin'):

An interesting section of a Wiki article on HDD "Disk Failures and their metrics" caught my attention as it relates to the Hitachi Deskstar HDDs used in the Mag 2160:

"A 2007 study published by Google suggested very little correlation between failure rates and either high temperature or activity level; however, the correlation between manufacturer/model and failure rate was relatively strong. Statistics in this matter is kept highly secret by most entities. Google did not publish the manufacturer's names along with their respective failure rates, though they have since revealed that they use Hitachi Deskstar drives in some of their servers."

Google has statistics they won't/can't reveal on HDD failure rates, and they chose Hitachi Deskstar for some of their servers... hmmmmm!?
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post #5906 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 06:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henree View Post

Oh no I think my unit might have died! I decided to record a movie I had on the hdd to a blank dvd. An hour later I see the display screen on my unit was completely black. I try pressing on the buttons on the remote and nothing happens. I then press the power on the front of my unit and nothing. I unplug, then plug in the unit and nothing. I left it unplugged for an hour and plug it back in. Still nothing. Has this ever happened to anyone else? I have had this unit for 2 monthes. I ordered it from Walmart.com. And I threw away the box already. What should I do?

Walmart.com carries the "A" version of the 2160 and, you might have noticed many posts about a bug in its Firmware (FW) that causes DVD ops like Finalize to fail at about the 9i0% point in the process. Sounds like that might have happened but in your case there's something else going on and it sounds more serious.

That sounds like what happened to your unit and the only "cure" will be a new FW release from Funai (assuming it really is a FW glitch).

Your best bet would be to reeturn the unit to Walmart immediately, before your 90 days runs out, and order an ORIGINAL 2160 w/o any glitches from J&R here and save $90 in the process!
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post #5907 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhi78 View Post

Wajo,

I got the 2160A today from WM. I'll be glad to try any finalizing test you'll come up with

I have extended basic cable with Time Warner. My first scan for channels came up weird results, comparing with what my TV picked up (Sharp Aquos 42D64). Some QAMs that the TV got, the 2160A missed completely. Also, some subchannels are quite different (e.g. CSPAN on TV is 100.3 and 100.4 on 2160A -- US SPORT is 100.8 on TV and 100.1 on 2160A).

OTOH, analogs channels are picked up exactly on the same channels.

I tried to enter the missing QAMs manually (the QAM channels that the TV is showing), and the 2160A displays the message "Scramble program" each time.

Might this be a QAM tuner problem on the 2160/A that I recalled that someone has reported before? subchannels inconsistency is no big deal, but missing scan and showing some QAMs as "scramble" certainly indicate tuner problems?

There have been 4-5 reports along the same lines as your experience... they all have Comcast cable.

Right now, your best bet, and everyone else's, is to return your Walmart unit quickly and order an ORIGINAL 2160 refurb. from J&R and save $90 in the process!

Even the original can't defeat any Comcast "plots against subscribers" but your chances of having a great working machine are enhanced with the original.
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post #5908 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by auskck View Post

Try the Western Digital site for the specs.
Doesn't look like the ideal drive
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1021199

Well, crap. Thanks for that link auskck. Those aren't very glowing reviews. I did happen to find this under the Specs tab on the B&H website:

12 VDC, 530 mA, 8.6W
5 VDC, 450 mA, 8.6W

Update

The above numbers actually conflict with Western Digital's website. For some reason, I was having trouble finding it last night. The real power draw goes like this:

Quote:


Current Requirements
12 VDC
Read/Write 460 mA
Idle 450 mA
Standby 6 mA
Sleep 6 mA

5 VDC
Read/Write 650 mA
Idle 600 mA
Standby 180 mA
Sleep 180 mA

Power Dissipation
Read/Write 8.77 Watts
Idle 8.40 Watts
Standby 0.97 Watts
Sleep 0.97 Watts

That exactly matches the "newer" WD5000AAKB (one with the 16MB buffer vs. 8 MB on WD5000JBRTL). The JBRTL is quieter according to WD.

I also dug up these old posts of ours for historical purposes (March 2009):

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelTownGuy View Post

Size (GB)
Model #
UsageW IdleW StdbyW Height in
160 HDP725016GLAT80 6.1 3.3 0.5 1.03
500 WD5000AAKB/S 8.77 8.40 0.97 1.028

Usage W increase: +2.67
Idle W increase: +5.1
Standby W increase: +0.47
No fit issues (same height).

Those are the numbers going from a Hitachi Deskstar 160GB (found in my Magnavox H2160) to the Western Digital 500GB EIDE and/or SATA drive, as Auskck will be testing very soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by auskck View Post

HOT HOT HOT
It's here the Philips 3575-IDE500WD is born. March 25, 2009 @ 1207hrs
Equipment used:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKB 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM $72.99...

...System has been on and running for 24 hours straight
Recorded 5x2hr scheduled programs
Recorded several on the spot segments
Functions tested:
Record, delete, edit, HS dub, playback, FF, REW, FFW, next, prev
All performed without a hitch.
Heat has not been a problem my usb pc 250gb drive is warmer.
Ridata +R 16x size 3982mb length 1:57hrs HSD :30 elapsed
Clean bill of health so far
200903271245 Since the Birth of the Philips 3575SATA500HT my testing will be done on the SATA configuration.
IMO this IDE configuration is Safe

AVS Forum member "Mike Hardy" bought the WD5000AAKB for installation after your success with it. I would assume his has been running fine for ~3 months?
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post #5909 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Apparently, the digital transition has caused some clock issues that came to light in the HDTV DTVPal DVR thread. That DVR has been having clock problems caused by its handling of TWO clock signal streams, one in the TVGOS system and one in the std PSIP data all digital channels are supposed to carry. The PSIP time is apparently controlled solely by each station and they've not been diligent in keeping them accurate, so there's been a "conflict" causing their clocks to go "wonky." They've just got a new FW version that seems better and includes a manual time setting option that it didn't have before. There may be errors in my story but not terribly important for our purposes.

Our DVDRs may be suffering from this problems also? The stations are trying to do better, but since the PSIP data is controlled by individual stations, it can more easily be off in accuracy.

Not sure if our DVDRs look for digital PSIP data, but they certainly could be "influenced" by it since they have digital tuners and a full channel search for a time signal... one not restricted by a "Manual" Auto Clock setting as described in The 11:57 Procedure... could easily "run into" some bad or rogue PSIP data.

If you don't get an auto time change (NO confirmed time signal) on ANY channel, you have two choices:
  1. Keep Auto Clock on Manual with either FOX or CBS (not PBS) in the channel-entry box so your DVDR has a power-backup time of 2-3 min. rather than the typ. 30 sec. when Auto Clock is set to OFF. Correct time manually if/when it drifts.
  2. Set clock to correct time and Auto Clock OFF. Correct time manually if/when it drifts.
Anyone NOT USING COAX, like a satellite-only subscriber, should set everything OFF since they can't receive any time signal.
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post #5910 of 27986 Old 07-26-2009, 08:43 AM
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From wajo's guide:

Quote:


2160 HIGH-SPEED DUB (HSD) twice as fast on DVD-R/+R as 3575/3576/2080 (8X vs 4X burner), a little slower on RW discs cuz 2160 likes faster-speed discs.

I had a couple of titles I was attempting to transfer from my 2160 A to my 2160 by burning to some blank Memorex DVD-RW 2X I've had laying around. As you probably already know, avoid Memorex...the 2160 A tried to format one and spit back an error message. The burn strategy apparently failed and it refused to accept it. It could be because it doesn't like 2X, but I'll bet it is more about being a really poor quality disc.

I wound up wasting a TY Premium DVD-R 8X. Oh well...35 cents down the tubes. It was nice to practice transferring ownership of an unfinalized to my Dec 2008 H2160 at least.
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