Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 218 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6511 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 06:13 PM
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I have a question for anyone using HDMI out to an AVR on the 2160A. I'm not getting 5.1 to my AVR. I am getting HDMI registry on my AVR but the signal is coming up PCM 2 channel. My settings are, HDMI Audio one, DD Bitstream, PCM 96kHz, and I'm using a Yamaha RX-V663. I'm referring to digital broadcast that have DD5.1. Do I need to use the digital coax to my AVR to obtain DD5.1 or is there a setting to get DD5.1 through HDMI?
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post #6512 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 07:57 PM
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Just nearly had a heart attack. Was watching EUReKA on SyFy thru my J&R 2160, and suddenly the picture froze. Then, it all went black. Other digital channels were also gone.

I switched to my other recorder's feed (older, no digital tuner) and SyFy was coming thru fine on analog.

Checked out a few channels on the 2160, and the OTAs were there. Got up to a certain point, and began finding the actual cable channels were there. Went back up to SyFy, and it was back.

All I could thinik was that the cable company had gone back to scrambling everything but the OTAs.

Anyone seen anything similar on their machines?

Secondary question-

I did a 4-show high speed dub to DVD on the J&R this afternoon, and the burner made a noticeable "rrrrrr" noise when doing each individual episode. (Noiseless gaps in between as it made ready to do each section of burning.)

Is this a sign that the burner is defective? Going bad?

I played the disc once it was done, and it seemed to play back fine and made no noise.
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post #6513 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamqsr11 View Post

I have a question for anyone using HDMI out to an AVR on the 2160A. I'm not getting 5.1 to my AVR. I am getting HDMI registry on my AVR but the signal is coming up PCM 2 channel. My settings are, HDMI Audio one, DD Bitstream, PCM 96kHz, and I'm using a Yamaha RX-V663. I'm referring to digital broadcast that have DD5.1. Do I need to use the digital coax to my AVR to obtain DD5.1 or is there a setting to get DD5.1 through HDMI?

I seem to recall someone saying that the 5.1 format doesn't get transferred to the DVD (or the hard drive?), so playback can't be in that format.

I've done searches for "5.1" on both this thread and the forum, but nothing's coming up. Maybe Wajo's opening post has something on this subject?
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post #6514 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

I did a continuous 24 hr TCM session on a 3575 a year ago with no problems so you should be good to go.

Let us know how it works out. Info like that is always welcome around here!

34 hours continuous recording to the HDD came off without a hitch. Only problem is there were no commercials between the end of one program and beginning of next. On several Titles this caused a minor loss of frames at the very end that I would rather have not lost. Oh well, for 34 hours unattended back to back recording I guess it came out as well as could have reasonably been expected. Thanks to all who lent advice and encouragement!
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post #6515 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Good news!

I've noticed my favorite cable news programs also go seamlessly from one to the other, so no break. No way to keep ALL the frames in that instance except by continuous recording in same title.
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post #6516 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 08:43 PM
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I'm not sure how you did the 34 hours of recording, but what you mention is always going to be a problem in a situation like that.

If you want to do a series of recordings over a certain period, it's a nightmare to get it to stop and start right on the money, that is "between shows". (Especially if you're doing it by way of the timer.)

I'm surprised you only lost a few frames.

I recorded portions of a Twilight Zone marathon for a friend once, and simply broke things up by leaving out episodes that weren't wanted. I started each long timer recording three minutes early, and stopped each a few minutes late. Made sure to get the whole thing, of the episodes that were wanted. Trim off the beginning and end bits, and you're done. Then split the recording at the cut off points.

Any recordings that are split like that need to be dubbed to DVD in real time, tho'. Otherwise, despite your having managed perfect splits, the dubs won't be perfect. You'll get "frame leftovers" from before or after the split.

Dub in real time and the discs will turn out with the perfect cuts you know you made on the hard drive.
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post #6517 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teamqsr11 View Post

I have a question for anyone using HDMI out to an AVR on the 2160A. I'm not getting 5.1 to my AVR. I am getting HDMI registry on my AVR but the signal is coming up PCM 2 channel. My settings are, HDMI Audio one, DD Bitstream, PCM 96kHz, and I'm using a Yamaha RX-V663. I'm referring to digital broadcast that have DD5.1. Do I need to use the digital coax to my AVR to obtain DD5.1 or is there a setting to get DD5.1 through HDMI?

All MTS audio that goes thru the DVDR's tuner gets processed into L and R channels, then output the same way. So anything you watch thru the DVDR's tuner will be only stereo.

The digital coax audio output will send DD5.1 from a DVD disc to a receiver.

I believe the coax passthru will send whatever audio is in the signal thru to the downstream components (STB, AV, TV)?
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post #6518 of 27999 Old 09-11-2009, 11:56 PM
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Gastrof:

> Was watching EUReKA on SyFy thru my J&R 2160, and suddenly the picture
> froze. Then, it all went black. Other digital channels were also gone.
>
> I switched to my other recorder's feed (older, no digital tuner) and
> SyFy was coming thru fine on analog.
>
> Checked out a few channels on the 2160, and the OTAs were there. Got up
> to a certain point, and began finding the actual cable channels were
> there. Went back up to SyFy, and it was back.

It has happened a half-dozen times in the last year. My first instinct was to blame Comcast, but am now more inclined to blame the recorder. It may be a glitch in the Comcast signal that initiates the freeze and going black, but another recorder receiving the same channel with the same glitch does not go black if it is not recording. Three days ago my Philips froze while I was chase watching during the recording of tennis, but in the other room where my wife was watching live through her Philips everything was okay. The problem has never happened on an analog channel, but since analog is the minority modus operandi that is not an absolute certainty.

The first few times it happened was during play, the screen would freeze and stay black until the timer had run out. Catching it within minutes has happened a couple of times.

The effect of going black lingers for a few minutes. If I catch it happening, I stop recording, switch to analog, then back to another digital bank and then retune the lost station. Using CH+/- does not work, the tuner does not seem able to lock on anything, in fact it does not even try. Maybe switching to analog has the effect of a reboot of digital tuning.
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post #6519 of 27999 Old 09-12-2009, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

I'm not sure how you did the 34 hours of recording, but what you mention is always going to be a problem in a situation like that.

If you want to do a series of recordings over a certain period, it's a nightmare to get it to stop and start right on the money, that is "between shows". (Especially if you're doing it by way of the timer.)

I'm surprised you only lost a few frames.

I recorded portions of a Twilight Zone marathon for a friend once, and simply broke things up by leaving out episodes that weren't wanted. I started each long timer recording three minutes early, and stopped each a few minutes late. Made sure to get the whole thing, of the episodes that were wanted. Trim off the beginning and end bits, and you're done. Then split the recording at the cut off points.

Any recordings that are split like that need to be dubbed to DVD in real time, tho'. Otherwise, despite your having managed perfect splits, the dubs won't be perfect. You'll get "frame leftovers" from before or after the split.

Dub in real time and the discs will turn out with the perfect cuts you know you made on the hard drive.

Gastroff, it was 16-2 hour recordings and 2-1 hour recordings, all back to back to back. In some instances I lost 5-10 seconds of the end of my recordings, in these cases, all recaps of stuff previously shown in the game, or the cheering crowds at the end. I did manage to get all the important stuff in every recording so I am happy, just not enthralled, by my results.

As far as "splits, wherever I can I split right in the middle of however many "dark" frames are available to me.
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post #6520 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 01:08 AM
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Gastrof:

Another random peculiarity of these DVRs on playback is a burst of static in the audio stream and the show goes silent.

Press Replay and the same scenes play with no sound loss.
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post #6521 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 08:08 AM
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J&R got something back in stock yesterday. I know cause I bought one from walmart around 10 minutes before I heard J & R was selling again! Assume it's the 2160a, but .... you never know.

I'm amazed by these comcast tales. Here they even take away channels like AMC and TCM and you have to have the box to get those. The direct cable feed for the 'lower channels' is much softer than via the motorola box. It'll be interesting to see what the 2160 picks up - I'll let you know. I'm betting I need to go the antenna + cable box to L1 route, but I'll give the direct coax a try. Oh, btw, they didn't give me "one free" here.... might have to call comcast and wrangle another cable box. The guy I spoke to didn't even want to rent me the first one when I switched to 'digital starter' - he told me I didn't need one. Crazy, huh?
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post #6522 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorM View Post

Comcast in my area, while having significantly fewer digital channels I can tune, has about a half dozen exact duplicates.
There's not much you can do about it.

I have a similar situation here, but they are not exact duplicates when viewed on the TV -- the channel that comes in on the lower number is lower quality -- not sure if it's due to the way they're compressing for analog viewers to force them to digital ? But, for example 24 (NBC) comes in at 117-1 over the coax, but the latter is significantly better (hd?). The higher number channels (* just a note-- in some cases it's fed via a lower number, for example Fox comes in at 25 'regular' and also at 15.2 with a 'hd" signal on the tv) So it's not totally 'location based'.

On my older recorder and tv I was stuck with diluted channel 24, but with the HD tv I see the better signal. Presumably the 2160 tuner will also capture the in the clear signals ... so, should I plan to record those (or wont it make any difference, given the SD recording ?) It's easier to record 24 than 117-1 , etc, but I'm thinking one sshould go for the best input quality regardless of the recorder's ultimate ability to capture it. I'll know more when it arrives - but I am curious if any of you already using this machine have seen significant differences in quality when recording with the 'identical'-but-not stations.
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post #6523 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

On my older recorder and tv I was stuck with diluted channel 24, but with the HD tv I see the better signal. Presumably the 2160 tuner will also capture the in the clear signals ... so, should I plan to record those (or wont it make any difference, given the SD recording ?) It's easier to record 24 than 117-1 , etc, but I'm thinking one sshould go for the best input quality regardless of the recorder's ultimate ability to capture it. I'll know more when it arrives - but I am curious if any of you already using this machine have seen significant differences in quality when recording with the 'identical'-but-not stations.

OMG! The difference between recording an HD program on a digital channel vs anything on an analog channel is like the difference between life and death!
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post #6524 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I added a new subject to Section 1 - General titled "Major Difference between a VCR and a DVDR."

It's designed to give an old VCR user some basic info on the diff. he/she will see if/when moving up to a DVDR.

I recently went back to using a VCR for temp. recording in a separate room and couldn't believe how barbaric it was... even forgot to load the tape for my first recording!

Any suggestions for additional items, w/o getting too technical... this is for long-time VCR people cautiously exploring what's new in the 21st Century?

Interesting list...thanks! I have used DVD recorders for many years but never a DVR -- there are still a few mildly confusing items in transitioning. The hardest thing for me making the switch from VCR to DVD recorder was to remember to turn OFF the recorder for scheduled timer recordings -- maybe that's brand specific, but it was annoying at first. At least that problem seems to have alleviated here!

My suggestions for things still somewhat unclear to VHS transitioners are:

1) Coax connection thru this DVDR is strictly a passthru of the incoming signal, and
Does that mean there is no degradation of the signal as it passes through? If so, it might be useful to mention it, since they may wish to string together multiple machines (even the old vcr to get the cable signal). I've always hesitated to do a coax passthrough, since I assumed it would compromise the quality.... but this sounds as though the signal passes through intact. It could in theory go from recorder to tv that way without loss (but better to split the coax so you can watch tv while the recorder is getting something else. That's the kind of option that VCR people might be familiar with.

6) could you offer a time estimate for best quality. for example, on a 160 gb using highest quality setting -- how many 'hours' does that translate to? People with VCRs are accustomed to thinking about this in terms of time vs gb. Does 160 GB = 40 hours, 80 hours, etc at speed x y z (like tape calculations)

Is it better to leave the machine on all the time, or turn it off when not in use? I have a vhs that I left on all the time cause I was using it as a tuner for an old TV - they may not be familiar with a drive that's constantly recording.


The other thing that might be confusing is how a recorder like this differentiates between displaying (and buffering) stuff that's on now on whatever channel (or input source?) it's tuned to-- and if that's the case, how do you then tell it to "save " vs just having it zip by into the buffer and disappear. Manual record? If so, will it record the stuff you may have missed that's still in the buffer?

Also, if you are recording a channel, how do you keep recording and still select another HD recording on the drive. I think VHS people can distinguish between watching tape and watching a TV show, but this seems to offer the extra option to watch/chase something you are NOT planning to keep, watch something as you are recording it for the HDD to save, watch something you've previously recorded to the HDD, and/or watch something playing on the DVD drive while you are recording something else on the HDD (or just buffering something else on the HDD). That's the cool (but mindboggling part) that might confuse new users coming to this from old media. Do you have to RECORD in order to 'pause and chase, or is it kind of an automatic process as it flows into the buffer. Is the buffered content separated from the RECORDED content, and if so, how is it distinguished. How much can you retrieve (e.g. If you missed the first 20 minutes of the show, can you backtrack to watch it? More impt , can you backtrack to "SAVE" to hd ? Sometimes you're watching a show and dont think you want to keep it, then realize it's great and you wish you had taped it. Can this go back and get the first part? VCR users would be delighted, if that's the case.

Most of this, of course, would be revealed in the manual, but .... people thinking of making the transition might not think they could do it (I wanted to get one for my mom, for example, who has *finally* mastered Roku!) .

Thanks for making this effort to ease-the transition... very helpful!
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post #6525 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

OMG! The difference between a recording from a digital vs analog channel is like the difference between life and eath!

Agree! But wasn't sure that difference would be recorded since there were many disclaimers about not receiving HD on the 2160 - glad to hear it can grab the gusto! Comcast box to L1 gives two more options coming in at a different channel number - and quality from the other two (analog and digital via box, vs analog and digital via coax), so I'm basically getting four iterations of the same channel ... hard to tell what's best, since they're going into similar but different model tvs, and if you add OTA, I suppose that would be a fifth (probably the best of the bunch!)

Would an antenna toggle to combine OTA and coax make sense for the 2160, since it apparently is quite good at displaying OTA content? Or would it compromise the 'quality' of the feed?
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post #6526 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Artwire, very excellent suggestions!

While some of the details might be already covered in the help files in this list, I'm going to spend some time to make sure the VCR>DVD file includes at least the basic info in yoru suggestions... might even expand it with more detail!

My original thought was to give an old VCRer some "nuggets" to differentiate VCR and DVDR ops, but it might be more valuable with some of the details, even tho repeated in the longer help files?

Thanks again.
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post #6527 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

Agree! But wasn't sure that difference would be recorded since there were many disclaimers about not receiving HD on the 2160 - glad to hear it can grab the gusto! Comcast box to L1 gives two more options coming in at a different channel number - and quality from the other two (analog and digital via box, vs analog and digital via coax), so I'm basically getting four iterations of the same channel ... hard to tell what's best, since they're going into similar but different model tvs, and if you add OTA, I suppose that would be a fifth (probably the best of the bunch!)

Would an antenna toggle to combine OTA and coax make sense for the 2160, since it apparently is quite good at displaying OTA content? Or would it compromise the 'quality' of the feed?

From what I've read, combining OTA antenna and cable channels with one tuner is difficult-ro-impossible cuz the frequencies of the two channel types can "clash."

However, the main impediment to concurrent OTA/Cable tuning in the 2160 is the Auto Channel Preset (scan) function... it overwrites an antenna auto-scan with a cable auto-scan, and vice versa.

People with rotating antennas can auto-scan for chennls in one direction, rotate the antenna to other directions and enter tunable channels from those directions as well by using the Manual Preset menu.

You can combine OTA and cable channel tuning if you use an external converter box (CECB) connected to a line input on the 2160. The CECB tunes the OTA channels so the 2160 tuner can be used solely for cable.

Sudden thought: Not sure anyone has tried using a toggle switch with two coax inputs and doing a Cable (Analog/Digital) auto-scan FIRST, then switch to an OTA antenna input and do a MANUAL scan for those channels.

I suppose there might be something in the 2160's TV/DTV switch that prevents the machine from subsequently placing OTA channels in memory after a Cable scan (like the channel-memory "function"), or there's a machine-based clash (like the auto-scan determines the type of signals (RF/QAM) that can be memorized by any method, auto or manual), or... but maybe not?

Maybe the worst case is an OTA channel wants a Cable channel's slot, but the user could just not enter some OTA channels in that case... ???
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post #6528 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

I have a similar situation here, but they are not exact duplicates when viewed on the TV -- the channel that comes in on the lower number is lower quality -- not sure if it's due to the way they're compressing for analog viewers to force them to digital ? But, for example 24 (NBC) comes in at 117-1 over the coax, but the latter is significantly better (hd?). The higher number channels (* just a note-- in some cases it's fed via a lower number, for example Fox comes in at 25 'regular' and also at 15.2 with a 'hd" signal on the tv) So it's not totally 'location based'.

On my older recorder and tv I was stuck with diluted channel 24, but with the HD tv I see the better signal. Presumably the 2160 tuner will also capture the in the clear signals ... so, should I plan to record those (or wont it make any difference, given the SD recording ?) It's easier to record 24 than 117-1 , etc, but I'm thinking one sshould go for the best input quality regardless of the recorder's ultimate ability to capture it. I'll know more when it arrives - but I am curious if any of you already using this machine have seen significant differences in quality when recording with the 'identical'-but-not stations.

The FCC is requiring cable companies to provide an analog feed of local stations thru 2012 (there is 1 exception, if the cable is all digital with NO analog). Most cable feeds will have 3 versions of the same network (local) program.
1. SD analog
2. SD digital
3. HD digital

If you tune channel 3 on your TV you get the SD analog, but if you use a cable box it will give you the SD digital on channel 3.
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post #6529 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Artwire, very excellent suggestions!

While some of the details might be already covered in the help files in this list, I'm going to spend some time to make sure the VCR>DVD file includes at least the basic info in yoru suggestions... might even expand it with more detail!

My original thought was to give an old VCRer some "nuggets" to differentiate VCR and DVDR ops, but it might be more valuable with some of the details, even tho repeated in the longer help files?

Thanks again.

right you are, I hadn't seen that section, only the part about VHS users. You've already covered a gazillion things! Should've known....

If it's useful to anyone I can experiment with the dual tuning of coax vs OTA when my 2160 arrives - but you're right, the CECB solution is probably easier for occasional OTA shows (I wasn't sure if the quality is reduced by going through the converter box vs direct antenna input for OTA ) I have an extra channel master that's pretty strong, so that's probably what I'll end up using for those stations that comcast stopped carrying, but which still come in through the air. Thanks for the idea
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post #6530 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

right you are, I hadn't seen that section, only the part about VHS users. You've already covered a gazillion things! Should've known....

If it's useful to anyone I can experiment with the dual tuning of coax vs OTA when my 2160 arrives - but you're right, the CECB solution is probably easier for occasional OTA shows (I wasn't sure if the quality is reduced by going through the converter box vs direct antenna input for OTA ) I have an extra channel master that's pretty strong, so that's probably what I'll end up using for those stations that comcast stopped carrying, but which still come in through the air. Thanks for the idea

unless someone chimes in and says they've already tried my "Sudden Thought" method, I'd be VERY interested in your testing that.

If successful, it might be a "boon" to MANY people!
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post #6531 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 12:05 PM
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Hi

I have a Philips 3576 that I installed a Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKB 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive
recently

I formatted the new drive with the Skip 079 procedure and everything worked OK for a while.

Recently on some occasions when I shut off the Philips 3576 it does not power down and displays load on the screen.

The on/off button will not shut down the unit.

If I pull the power plug for about a minute and plug it back in the unit starts with load display and remains there and I'm unable to do anything with the unit ir even shut it down with the on/off button.

If I unplug the unit for 6 minutes, it starts up normally however I have to set time and date and reprogram any timed recordings that I had previously.

I do not loose any of the programs that are on the hard drive and the unit works properly for a while (sometimes a few days) until it repeats the load problem again.

When I restart the unit after a 6 minute removal from power source and use the Skip 079 code everything reads OK.

Just asking if anyone has had this problem or has a solution for it.

Doug
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post #6532 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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dpippin, Not sure what's going on with your upgraded HDD or the unit. Someone may come up with an answer or theory in the near future... I have no good clues right now.

However, in doing a quick test of SKIP 123 to see if that'd be a simpler and quicker way to reset your machine... so you didn't have to unplug it... I ran into a POSSIBLY "NEAT" FEATURE THAT MIGHT HELP IN "CHANNEL DISCOVERY," i.e., trying to find EXACTLY what channels can be tuned.

*******************

A NEAT FEATURE FOR USE IN "CHANNEL DISCOVERY"... MAYBE?

If you've got a situation that requires a "blind-search" for channels in your area, this DVDR (my 3575 anyway) has a neat feature related to the SKIP 123 code that we use to view FW Versions.

As you know, pressing OK on the SKIP 123 menu resets the OSD Language, Clock and custom settings and deletes Timer Rec Programs. It also retains analog channels but deletes digital channels from CH+/- memory.

One additional, "new-to-me" benefit is that the CH+/- button will now go thru ALL channels in the analog and digital tuners, 1-125 or 1-135.

To me, this gives the SKIP 123 + OK combo a new use: (1) reset the machine to factory defaults, AND (2) search ALL channels for tunability or not (blue-screen). In other words,

YOU CAN SEARCH ALL ANALOG CHANNELS WITH CH+/- BUTTON, from 1-125. Those analog channels already in memory will still be there, and the previously blank channels will show a pic or blue screen, depending on whether they're tunable or not. No need to use the much-slower Manual Preset menu just to "discover" if any new analog channels are available.

The only drawback on analog is that ALL channels still "tune" with CH+/-, even blue-screens... HOWEVER, another cool thing: deleting analog channels with the Manual Preset menu is incredibly easy since the channels ratchet from one to the other AUTOMATICALLY, so all you have to do is switch to Delete > press OK and the next channel in sequence is auto-tuned. (This is true for an ADD as well.) That is, just keep pressing down-arrow > OK to Delete and let the machine switch to next channel. I deleted my 64 blank channels (62-125) in 2 minutes or less. Mine were all in sequence, but if you have blanks interspersed with good channels with "Add" checked, pressing OK is all you need to skip that channel and continue the auto-sequencing.

YOU CAN ALSO SEARCH ALL DIGITAL CHANNELS, from 1-135. Your previously memorized digital channels will look like they're "gone," but they'll still tune with CH+/- or direct entry. The remaining, previously NOT memorized digital channels will show a pic or blue screen with CH+/-. (Except for the typical skipping of a digital channel group if XX.1 is scrambled, as described here.) The "drawback" mentioned above for analog channels does NOT apply to digital.

Here's also where the "all-or-none" digital tuning in this DVDR HELPS you... while surfing all digital channels with CH+/-, if a channel tunes (takes a few sec), selecting Add tunes ALL subchannels in that group... don't have to separately "find" the subchannels since they'll ALL tune as a group!

This new-to-me feature provides a simple way (CH+/-) to determine which of the 1-125 or 1-135 channels are tunable in that system!

I know this works on a unit that has at least one successful auto channel scan, meaning that it found AT LEAST ONE channel per tuner... not sure if same on a new unit with no previous channel memory. However, it might still work the same if one of the first acts in setting up a new machine (or one that channel memory is wiped out like after a HDD format) is the SKIP 123 + OK procedure???
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post #6533 of 27999 Old 09-13-2009, 01:53 PM
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Just want to clarify in the event someone has an answer to my problem.

Once the unit locks up with the load message on the front panel none of the keys on the unit or the remote are functional, so I cannot get the Skip ??? procedure to work until I pull the plug on the unit for at least 6 minutes and then it requires resetting everything.

Doug


[quote=wajo;17172304]dpippin, Not sure what's going on with your upgraded HDD or the unit. Someone may come up with an answer or theory in the near future... I have no good clues right now.

However, in doing a quick test of SKIP 123 to see if that'd be a simpler and quicker way to reset your machine... so you didn't have to unplug it... I ran into a POSSIBLY "NEAT" FEATURE THAT MIGHT HELP IN "CHANNEL DISCOVERY," i.e., trying to find EXACTLY what channels can be tuned.
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post #6534 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 08:28 AM
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I just had this lockup problem happen to me too. I upgraded my 3576s and a couple of my 2160s to the same 500GB drive you have. I had just finished watching the last of some summer shows, did the skip 079 to reformat, and it locked up. Once I unplugged and brought it back up, there has been no problem. Didn't have this problem when I first upgraded and it has happened on a couple that I had had unplugged for a while. Strange. But as long as it comes back up, I won't worry about it--will just do a reformat once before each new season. Maybe it just doesn't like being unplugged and unused all summer.

Another problem I had was when I was setting everything up for the new season. I plugged one 2160 in that had been unplugged all summer, upgraded to a 500GB drive, was test recording, and it got extremely hot. I pulled the drive, put it in a 3576 and it did the same thing. Got pissed off, pulled the drive, set it aside, and replaced the old drive. Had time the next day so reloaded the new drive into the 3576 again. This time it ran cool just like all the others. I know I connected everything correctly, so don't know what happened.
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post #6535 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippin View Post

I have a Philips 3576 that I installed a Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKB 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive recently. I formatted the new drive with the Skip 079 procedure and everything worked OK for a while... on some occasions when I shut off the Philips 3576 it does not power down and displays load on the screen... on/off button will not shut down the unit... If I pull the power plug for about a minute and plug it back in the unit starts with load display and remains there and I'm unable to do anything with the unit ir even shut it down with the on/off button... If I unplug the unit for 6 minutes, it starts up normally however I have to set time and date and reprogram any timed recordings that I had previously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mreedelp View Post

I just had this lockup problem happen to me too. I upgraded my 3576s and a couple of my 2160s to the same 500GB drive you have. I had just finished watching the last of some summer shows, did the skip 079 to reformat, and it locked up. Once I unplugged and brought it back up, there has been no problem. Didn't have this problem when I first upgraded and it has happened on a couple that I had had unplugged for a while. Strange. But as long as it comes back up, I won't worry about it--will just do a reformat once before each new season. Maybe it just doesn't like being unplugged and unused all summer.

Another problem I had was when I was setting everything up for the new season. I plugged one 2160 in that had been unplugged all summer, upgraded to a 500GB drive, was test recording, and it got extremely hot. I pulled the drive, put it in a 3576 and it did the same thing. Got pissed off, pulled the drive, set it aside, and replaced the old drive. Had time the next day so reloaded the new drive into the 3576 again. This time it ran cool just like all the others. I know I connected everything correctly, so don't know what happened.

Based on two reports of problems with the same WD 500GB HDD, it's tempting to think of putting a note in the SKIP 079 file, suggesting that WD drive might not be a good one for upgrade?

In 2008, one tech forum did start with the OP wanting info on WD drive failure rates from other tech guys cuz he's heard from many installers that they replace more WDs than any other brand.

However, a quick check of responses to that OP's query suggests WD and Seagate are liked about equally, esp. for longevity?

In the SKIP 079 file, I do have the story of Google testing all HDDs and having a list of the most reliable, but they won't publish the specific stats... only clue, and a good one, is that they did admit they run Hitachi in some of their servers, which we only know cuz that was the only semi-specific detail squeezed out of Google by the article writer/reporter... in fact, they might have volunteered it!?

Maybe we should be sticking to power-hog Seagates or the Google-tested-and-preferred (and cool-running) Hitachi, both originals in these DVDRs?
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post #6536 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 11:53 AM
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I would verify that the power requirements of the hard drives are similair to the previous drives.

My lockup experience was due to poor solder connections on the IDE adapter that mated to the hard drive. The flux and solder were burnt! After debating on whether to send the unit back for repair (for parts warranty as it was after 95 days for full warranty) I decided to unsolder/resolder the connections.
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post #6537 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 12:10 PM
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WD's do get hot. They were made for the cooler inside of a computer. Unless you get the AV drives as opposed to the AA drives, you may be taking your chances. WD5000AAKB = PC ; WD5000AVJB = Video equipment.
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post #6538 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timtofly View Post

WD's do get hot. They were made for the cooler inside of a computer. Unless you get the AV drives as opposed to the AA drives, you may be taking your chances. WD5000AAKB = PC ; WD5000AVJB = Video equipment.

Now that's some great info that needs to be in the help file!

Thanks!
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post #6539 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 08:08 PM
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> WD's do get hot. They were made for the cooler inside of a computer.
> Unless you get the AV drives as opposed to the AA drives, you may be
> taking your chances. WD5000AAKB = PC ; WD5000AVJB = Video equipment.

You can reconfigure WD5000AAKB/PC drives to behave like WD5000AVJB/Video equipment drives.

When it comes to hard drives, models within a family are physically identical other than being configured for specific environments. Manufacturers used to rely on special utilities to configure drives but now they use the Set Features command instead.

The Hitachi FT (Feature Tool) allows you to set many of the generic operational parameters of the ATA Set Features command. FT works on just about any manufacturer's drives except Samsung (which has its own utility).

ATA-6 added a Set Feature called Automatic Acoustic Management. AAM allows 128 granular settings but only the vendor knows what levels of change there are between values, and as I recall, FT lets you choose Off, Loud, Medium or Almost Silent. The side effect of 'quiet' mode that you really care about is that Almost Silent can result in up to a 20% drop in operational power consumption. That equates to less heat and a lower draw on the power supply.

http://www.hitachigst.com/hdd/support/download.htm
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post #6540 of 27999 Old 09-14-2009, 11:06 PM
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Sorry to pop in in the middle of a hard drive transplant discussion ... I was reading Wajo's help files regarding best media choices for this recorder, but I didn't see any mention of double layer discs. Will DL work in this machine? I have a handful of Verbatim dual layer DVD+R (almost all of my other blank media is -R or RAM for the panasonic.) I will order some regular media once I get a better idea of how much I'll be dubbing, and whether I'll need +RW or +R for it, but since I already have these and they're my only + type (avoiding drugstore stuff), I was wondering if the 2 layer (up to 6x) would trigger some type of problem. Maybe too fast/hot? The manual doesn't mention DL, so I'm guessing that it's not a good idea -- but if it isn't, maybe you could add it (DO NOT USE DUAL LAYER DISCS) to the help file Thanks!


edited for inexcusable typo! (blame it on touch screen itis) Sorry WAjo
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