Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 27974 Old 05-02-2008, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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New 3575 user playing commercial movies reported a "dark pic" with HDMI on his 1080p LCD and some checks found his 3575's HDMI Format was set for the default "RGB" (analog Component) and his HDMI "RGB Range" was set for "Enhanced" prob. from his intial setup testing. Setting the RGB Range back to the default "Normal" made his HDMI pic "brighter than Component."

A reminder, suggested by this user: Don't mess with the RGB Range settings unless you know what you're doing cuz he didn't initially see much of a diff. in the menu page when he played with his RGB Range setting, so he didn't think twice about leaving it on Enhanced, but it made a BIG diff. when he watched DVDs with dark scenes.

In our dicussions, I recommended he set HDMI Format for YCbCr, instead of the default RGB, and see if his TV auto-sets for YCbCr like mine does (i.e., it's YCbCr compatible). He did that and his 52" Samsung LCD showed an immediate and "dramatic" change... it went black for at least 1-2 seconds before the picture came back up as YCbCr digital Component. (My Vizio 47" LCD doesn't do that.) This gave him his best pic for playing his commercial DVDs. He also left his Component connection to the TV cuz he gets a better pic from his cable box thru Component on his key channels.

If you want to try YCbCr for your HDMI connection, you can use the RGB Range menu to tell if your TV is compatible with YCbCr. If it IS compatible, there will be NO visible change in the RGB Range menu pic on screen when you switch between Normal and Enhanced. If NOT compatible, the 3575/76 reverts to the default RGB, and changing the setting for RGB Range between Normal and Enhanced DOES make a slight diff. in the menu pic on screen.

Per the Reminder above, there won't be a BIG change in the menu pic if your TV is NOT YCbCr compatible, so make sure you set RGB Range back to Normal before leaving the HDMI menus. That way, you won't run into darker-than-dark scenes in your movies.
CAUTION: MAKE SURE YOU'VE SELECTED THE HDMI CONNECTION ON YOUR TV before doing the RGB Range test since you CAN make changes in that menu while on OTHER connections (Composite, S-Video or Component) and, OBVIOUSLY, the RBG Range menu will have no effect on the menu pic. After making the correct settings, this user also found little, if any, diff. between HDMI and Component for normal TV watching... they were both good... but that prob. depends on your source and total system, so you'll have to experiment if you want the best PQ from every source in your system. (I get my best all-around TV/HDD watching pic with digital Composite cable cuz my analog cable feed is Composite.)

You can use QVC shopping channel for PQ comparisons of live TV since they have studio lighting, static shots, and text always on screen.

This user's TV ALSO has a setting for YCbCr but setting the TV's YCbCr ON made regular TV watching thru his cable box worse. Besides, his TV was auto-setting for YCbCr from the 3575 for his DVDs, which is what he wanted anyway.
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post #752 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Telecon with a Philips "Tech. Specialist" just now confirms no hardware changes in the 3576 compared to the 3575, only the new Front-End (FE) Firmware (FW).

He said they weren't repackaging returned 3575s in the new 3576 case.
In fact, see next post.
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post #753 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #754 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Telecon with a Philips "Tech. Specialist" just now confirms no hardware changes in the 3576 compared to the 3575, only the new Front-End (FE) Firmware (FW).

He said they weren't repackaging returned 3575s in the new 3576 case.
In fact, see next post.

What does the new FE-FW give you.

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post #755 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Telecon with a Philips "Tech. Specialist" just now confirms no hardware changes in the 3576 compared to the 3575, only the new Front-End (FE) Firmware (FW).

He said they weren't repackaging returned 3575s in the new 3576 case.
In fact, see next post.

Did you happen to ask the "Tech. Specialist" about the "DTV-S" value?
It would be nice to know for sure what it means and whether it can be updated by a file on a disk like the FE and BE versions. I believe you mentioned in another thread that it appears to have been changed when you installed the on-line update to one of your machines. I don't believe the post indicated that you were absolutely certain that it was "0x8D" prior to the update. As I recall the post, it did indicate that the value for the updated unit is now "0x90" like the DVDR3576 and the latest DVDR3575s.

Did the "Tech. Specialist" happen to explain the significance of the firmware updates available on-line and incuded in the newest machines?
It sure is nice when companies make available to the customers all of the issues addressed by each revision of firmare amnd/or software.
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post #756 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken, the TS didn't know exactly what the FE did, so I didn't ask about the DTV-S, but my post above on the DTV-S appearing straightforward when already left on a digital channel, but being blank then fuzzy for several sec when on an analog channel suggests it's going to the digital tuner to check it's status.

The one unit I updated was 0x8D before the update and 0x90 after... it's my original unit.

It would be nice if they released this same FE FW for the 3575 cuz that might be the only way they'd actually write something (in the instructions) about what it does?
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post #757 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 03:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by wajo

Telecon with a Philips "Tech. Specialist" just now confirms no hardware changes in the 3576 compared to the 3575, only the new Front-End (FE) Firmware (FW).

I guess that explains why I have the blue screen issue with both the new and old unit.

MiamiV
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post #758 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 04:25 PM
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Ubid has another auction on the 3575. I scored one for $160 shipped the last time.


http://www.ubid.com/Philips_DVDR3575...a11260279.html
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post #759 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 09:09 PM
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^^They have 52 up for auction. Does that mean that the first 52 people in that list will get one when the auction's over? Or just the top bidder gets one?

Dazed and confused over high tech.

Sigh...Concrap. The Internet Overlord Cometh
They're not com-tastic!
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post #760 of 27974 Old 05-06-2008, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post

^^They have 52 up for auction. Does that mean that the first 52 people in that list will get one when the auction's over? Or just the top bidder gets one?


The first 52 win. So there's a pretty good chance to get one.
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post #761 of 27974 Old 05-07-2008, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Alternate Frozen-Channel Escape

Note: The manual has two incorrect statements (pp 28-29): only analog channels can be added, and deleted digital channels can't be recovered. BOTH ARE WRONG! The secret is you have to FIRST do an Auto Channel Preset > Cable (Analog/Digital) and let it at least START on the digital channels. You can cancel with the BACK button anywhere in the digital channel scan (like on 2.1 or a frozen channel), then you can enter digital channels with a Manual Channel Preset anytime after that. You can also delete and recover channels. I do both all the time in testing various ops and problems with both previously scanned and factory-fresh units.

This describes a new way to escape from a frozen digital channel WITHOUT disconnecting the coax... just tryin' to be lazy and find an easy way out!

Procedure for a Previously Scanned Unit
  1. If/when the Auto Channel Preset scan "freezes" on a problem digital channel, press the BACK/RETURN button once, which *should* bring up the starting auto-scan menu over a blue screen. If it doesn't, unplug unit for a couple of sec, then BACK/RETURN out of the scan if it reappears (prob. will).
  2. Keep BACK/RETURNing out of the menus to a TV channel, which may bounce back to the problem channel... DON'T DESPAIR, IT'S ONLY TEMPORARY! In a few sec, it should switch to the first digital channel successfully tuned.
  3. IF you KNOW you have more digital channels than were scanned in, go to Setup > General Settings > Channel > Manual Channel Preset. Enter basic 2-digit digital channel number(s) directly with number keys and, if a channel tunes, change checkbox to Add (takes a few sec). That adds ALL tunable subchannels in that group. Don't enter the problem Channel number with the number keys or you'll be stuck in perpetual scanning! (However, if it ever happens, just press the BACK/RETURN button again.)
  4. When done, BACK/RETURN out to TV pic.
Anyway, most if not all people have reported their tunable digital channels are all below 100 in the 3575/76. Stopping the scan as described above seems to hold the channels it's already tuned during the scan, and any higher channels can be added with a Manual Preset. Check channel numbers vs. your digital TV they might be the same if you're lucky!

Procedure for a NEW Unit Not Previously Scanned (or After a FW Update)

I also used the procedure described above after a FW update, which makes the unit "factory fresh" again, so you have to start SETUP from scratch just like a brand new unit. You also lose your timer programs.

With a "new" unit starting from scratch, stopping the Auto Channel Preset with the BACK/RETURN button won't scan in or retain any digital channels like it does for an already scanned unit. However, it does allow you to enter digital channels manually.

Luckily, I already knew the channels that are tunable in my system so, after the a FW update, my auto channel scan froze on Ch, 91, I BACK/RETURNed out to a TV pic, then used the Manual Channel Preset menu as described above to manually enter my 9 tunable digital channels.

If you have a new unit, or have just installed a FW update, and have a ref. for the digital channels you SHOULD receive, like a TV with digital tuner, you can use Manual Channel Preset to enter the same digital channels your TV receives... don't worry about the numbers after a dash or period, you just need to enter the main/primary number like 83, which will tune all subchannels that are tunable in that group.

If you don't have a digital-tunered TV and/or don't have a clue about your digital channels, you might be better served to use the "pull-the-coax" method described here. That method will give you digital channels up to the point the scan freezes since it lets the scan complete its job... and your unit might not have any problem channels and sail right thru!? Also check for hidden channels as described in that post.
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post #762 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Had to change the post above on escaping from a frozen digital channel during an auto-scan... found out you can wait until it actually does freeze before pressing the BACK button... even better!

ALSO, found a BONUS described above!
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post #763 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 02:58 PM
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I recently bought the Philips DVDR3576H from Sam's.

I have a Sony 34XBR960N HD TV, a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR and am using Time Warner Cable.

I have seen some great information on this forum in reference to the Philips Model DVDR3576 but I'm still having a problem viewing the signal through the 3576 on my TV - the HD channels are always in letterboxed format no matter what I try - black bar on top and bottom.

I tried a couple of different types of connections - first the one suggested with the 3576 being first in line and then with the DVR first in line and I even hooked up the unit according to Philip's instructions in their "Quick Start Guide."

With the first connection mentioned above I used the S-video out w/audio cables from the DVR to the recorder (E1) and the HDMI cable out of the recorder to the TV. I also used S-video in and HDMI out for the other two configurations.

The analog channels show in full screen but the HD channels are letterboxed.

How do I get that format to a full screen 16:9 image?

I have some PBS programs on my DVR recorded in full screen that I would like to copy to the HD of the 3576 to give me some room on my DVR, and possibly copy them later to a DVD, but when I go through the DVDR the result is letterboxed as well as when I try to copy to the HD or a DVD-R/W disc.

I've gone through the setup for the 3576 trying to change the ratio as well as the DVR, with no luck. The only way to affect the screen image is by using the TV remote which I can change to zoom, vertical stretch or horizontal stretch. The only change that comes close to improving to full screen is vertical stretch.

Thanks for any help.

Robert
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post #764 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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rmelone, your best setup is with the 3576 1st on the coax, then coax run to SA box, then on to TV.

Scan for channels and see how many the 3576 can tune by itself. For the future, you can then record these directly in WS by setting the Video > TV Aspect to 16:9 Wide.

For the WS stuff already on the DVR, there are many boxes that WILL NOT send a WS signal thru their analog outputs (S-Video). Not sure if the SA8300 is one of those, but it sounds like it is.

(That's why there are no North American recorders with Component inputs, which WILL transfer a WS signal, but that would give you too good a pic for the Hollywood weazels and weenie-heads... it'd give them severe heartburn!)

One way to know for sure is send the 3576 a WS program from the box via the S-Video cable, then while on that WS channel, set the 3576 Video > TV Aspect to 16:9 Wide and see what the pic looks like. Then you can switrch to 4:3 Letter Box just to compare.

The 3575/76 is a WYSIWYG machine, so whatever setting you make in that TV Aspect menu you SHOULD see on the TV UNLESS the 3576 isn't receiving a WS program due to the analog thing mentioned above.

If your box can't send the WS signal thru analog to the 3576, you won't be able to get the WS programs into the 3576 that way. However, future WS programs that you can record directly with the 3576 1st on the coax will be in WS if you set the TV Aspect for 16:9.

You may already have read this post on WS Recording?
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post #765 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

For the WS stuff already on the DVR, there are many boxes that WILL NOT send a WS signal thru their analog outputs (S-Video). Not sure if the SA8300 is one of those, but it sounds like it is.

(That's why there are no North American recorders with Component inputs, which WILL transfer a WS signal, but that would give you too good a pic for the Hollywood weazels and weenie-heads... it'd give them severe heartburn!)

It would seem to me that the decision to not output a widescreen image over S-Video is a decision of the cable company alone. All the CECB's (converter boxes) being sold to convert digital OTA to analog, output anamorphic widescreen format over composite video.

- kelson h

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post #766 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmelone View Post

I recently bought the Philips DVDR3576H from Sam's.

I have a Sony 34XBR960N HD TV, a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR and am using Time Warner Cable.

I have seen some great information on this forum in reference to the Philips Model DVDR3576 but I'm still having a problem viewing the signal through the 3576 on my TV - the HD channels are always in letterboxed format no matter what I try - black bar on top and bottom.

In trying to find a good source of hands-on info on STBs sending WS over analog, I found this post on your specific box by Nextoo, who's done lots of experimenting with getting WS to a DVDR... the SA8300D has to be running SARA SW, which is only a "small subset" of those boxes, according to Nextoo in this link.

Westgate just above Nextoo's post says he used the SA8300 HD to do what you want, but he has to set it to "stretch mode." Nextoo responds to that with the SARA note.

Lots of other posts above and below that might be interesting to you?
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post #767 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

After 2600 posts in the original thread, it's probably difficult for new people to find basic info on the 3575 without a lot of digging... even hard to find your OWN posts now!

Since some of the subjects apply to any DVDR, people just starting out with other brands might find something useful in their setup and op. as well?


Terrific post on the 3575. Considering working it into our emergency response system design for LA City, but cannot find "QAM tuner" info anywhere in the product literature. I see the ATSC and NTSC referenced cited. I must ask...are you sure this demods clear QAM? Thanks...
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post #768 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SVI View Post

Terrific post on the 3575. Considering working it into our emergency response system design for LA City, but cannot find "QAM tuner" info anywhere in the product literature. I see the ATSC and NTSC referenced cited. I must ask...are you sure this demods clear QAM? Thanks...

Absolutely sure! I get 8 of my cableco's digital HD channels in the clear in my basic analog cable subscription, and many other users report even more digital channels than that.
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post #769 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Absolutely sure! I get 8 of my cableco's digital HD channels in the clear in my basic analog cable subscription, and many other users report even more digital channels than that.

Sounds good!
current system design will deliver 135 channels of clear QAM in a mixed bag of OTA ATSC transcoded to clear QAM, some internally generated clear QAM from fancy PC's and various Sat channels encoded/modulated to clear QAM 1080i. So my next step is to test this box in our lab to see it deliver the goods across the entire range. Think it can demod QAM across the entire range? Where would you recommend finding one of these in the LA area?
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post #770 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVI View Post

Sounds good!
current system design will deliver 135 channels of clear QAM in a mixed bag of OTA ATSC transcoded to clear QAM, some internally generated clear QAM from fancy PC's and various Sat channels encoded/modulated to clear QAM 1080i. So my next step is to test this box in our lab to see it deliver the goods across the entire range. Think it can demod QAM across the entire range? Where would you recommend finding one of these in the LA area?

The "sweet-spot" for the 3575/76 in digital reception/tuning is OTA ATSC. Not sure how it'll react to the other "mixed-bag."

Best place for a 3576, the new model, is Sam's Club. Best price of $248.28 and best return policy by far.

57 Sam's Clubs in LA area, listed here.
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post #771 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 05:37 PM
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We will find out how it works on our 135-lane QAM freeway. I'll have one in the lab tomorrow. thanks for your advice.
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post #772 of 27974 Old 05-08-2008, 05:54 PM
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A lot of people would be interested in your lab results. Please come and give back to the community -- post your findings.

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post #773 of 27974 Old 05-09-2008, 05:41 AM
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Thanks for the information.

I hope to have time to check things out in the next day or so and let you know how I make out.

Robert
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post #774 of 27974 Old 05-09-2008, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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This little note in the 3575/76 manual:

"Also, due to compatibility with progressive video
(525p/480p), you can experience higher-density picture
than that in interlace (525i/480i)."

Made me think of the dark pic some people are experiencing with their 1366x768 (720p) TVs.

Someone experiencing dark pic with one of those TVs (usually 32" and smaller") should try a HDMI setting of 1080i.

Just curious if sending an interlaced pic would preclude any darkening effect from a progressive setting, i.e., the "higher-density picture" as noted in the manual?

Also, one 768p TV user found a setting on his TV that brightened the pic up... he had "DVD' and "DTV" settings and switching to DTV (I think) helped his pic's brightness.
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post #775 of 27974 Old 05-09-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Just curious if sending an interlaced pic would preclude any darkening effect from a progressive setting, i.e., the "higher-density picture" as noted in the manual?

Not in my case. Been sending 1080i to my 768p Panny plasma for months, still seems darker.
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post #776 of 27974 Old 05-09-2008, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb0 View Post

Not in my case. Been sending 1080i to my 768p Panny plasma for months, still seems darker.

Have you checked for a TV setting for DVD or DTV, or similar (a plasma might not have such)?

Also, have you set the HDMI Format to YCbCr, then sent 480p to the TV?
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post #777 of 27974 Old 05-09-2008, 01:43 PM
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Initial results show the 3576H/37 supports demodulating and recording/burning from the following sources, which are all RF combined and presented on one RG6 coaxial cable as different channels:
1-QAM from Mpeg2HD encoder (Adtec Media Hub encoder with BT agile QAM modulator)
2-QAM transcoded from ATSC, three channels from Mt Wilson in Los Angeles (via Blonder Tongue AQT's)
3-NTSC via low-cost RF modulator.
This thing works. Hope they keep it on the market.
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post #778 of 27974 Old 05-09-2008, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:

Original series of inquiries on 5/8/08 on whether the Philips DVDR3576H/37 actually had a QAM tuner, and whether it could tune the entire 135-channel range of QAM signals:

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVI View Post

Terrific post on the 3575. Considering working it into our emergency response system design for LA City, but cannot find "QAM tuner" info anywhere in the product literature. I see the ATSC and NTSC referenced cited. I must ask...are you sure this demods clear QAM? Thanks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVI View Post

Sounds good!
current system design will deliver 135 channels of clear QAM in a mixed bag of OTA ATSC transcoded to clear QAM, some internally generated clear QAM from fancy PC's and various Sat channels encoded/modulated to clear QAM 1080i. So my next step is to test this box in our lab to see it deliver the goods across the entire range. Think it can demod QAM across the entire range? Where would you recommend finding one of these in the LA area?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVI View Post

We will find out how it works on our 135-lane QAM freeway. I'll have one in the lab tomorrow. thanks for your advice.

 

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Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

A lot of people would be interested in your lab results. Please come and give back to the community -- post your findings.

 

Report on test results 5/9/08 with a 3576 obtained from Sams Club.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVI View Post

Initial results show the 3576H/37 supports demodulating and recording/burning from the following sources, which are all RF combined and presented on one RG6 coaxial cable as different channels:
1-QAM from Mpeg2HD encoder (Adtec Media Hub encoder with BT agile QAM modulator)
2-QAM transcoded from ATSC, three channels from Mt Wilson in Los Angeles (via Blonder Tongue AQT's)
3-NTSC via low-cost RF modulator.
This thing works. Hope they keep it on the market

 

Kelson, where are you? He reported his results in response to your personal request. Did you lose interest? Oh, wait. You were hoping for failure, as usual, and couldn't be bothered to post something positive. Sad!

 

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post #779 of 27974 Old 05-10-2008, 12:47 PM
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A couple of things since my post a couple of days ago about the aspect ratio problem I'm experiencing.

1.
Quote:


For the WS stuff already on the DVR, there are many boxes that WILL NOT send a WS signal thru their analog outputs (S-Video). Not sure if the SA8300 is one of those, but it sounds like it is.

I checked with Scientific Atlanta about the 8300HD and the S-video out can, at best, provide 480i output. I verified this by connecting the S-video out directly to the HD TV and saw the bars - top and bottom compared to the full screen output with the component video output I normally use.

The SA people suggested a firmware update but Time Warner only replaces DVRs if there's a problem; they don't do firmware updates to DVRs currently in use.

2.
Quote:


One way to know for sure is send the 3576 a WS program from the box via the S-Video cable, then while on that WS channel, set the 3576 Video > TV Aspect to 16:9 Wide and see what the pic looks like. Then you can switrch to 4:3 Letter Box just to compare.

When doing the above there is no change in the output no matter which TV Aspect is chosen - the picture stays the same - letterboxed.

3.
Quote:


The 3575/76 is a WYSIWYG machine, so whatever setting you make in that TV Aspect menu you SHOULD see on the TV UNLESS the 3576 isn't receiving a WS program due to the analog thing mentioned above.

So, I guess there isn't anything I can do to get a full screen picture as long as I use the S-video out (or the compsite video out) as they are the only two inputs to the DVDR I can use.

That brings up the question - what DVRs send a WS signal through their S-video outputs?

4.
Quote:


If your box can't send the WS signal thru analog to the 3576, you won't be able to get the WS programs into the 3576 that way. However, future WS programs that you can record directly with the 3576 1st on the coax will be in WS if you set the TV Aspect for 16:9.

Right now the only channels I can record directly with the 3576 are the channels between 2 and 99 - which, as far as I know (in my case) are all analog. Most of those channels going through the 3576 are full screen.

5.
Quote:


In trying to find a good source of hands-on info on STBs sending WS over analog, I found this post on your specific box by Nextoo, who's done lots of experimenting with getting WS to a DVDR... the SA8300D has to be running SARA SW, which is only a "small subset" of those boxes, according to Nextoo in this link.

I called SA about the SARA software and they said any software is controlled by the cable company - right now I have Passport SW. I haven't been in contact with the cable company yet but I don't have a feeling of confidence even when I do.

You were right about the "Nextoo" post above in that there's some good information about the SA8300 and I'll keep going through that in case there's something that might help my problem.

6. Is there any difference to the output signal if I record to a DVD and then finalize it? I probably misunderstood but I got the impression somewhere that after finalization the output might go back to full screen (probably wishful thinking.)

Robert
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post #780 of 27974 Old 05-10-2008, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmelone View Post

Right now the only channels I can record directly with the 3576 are the channels between 2 and 99 - which, as far as I know (in my case) are all analog. Most of those channels going through the 3576 are full screen.

I hope you've got the 3576 1st on the coax, then coax to the STB? If so, did you do an Auto Channel Preset > Cable (Analog/Digital), which is the 3rd option in that menu?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmelone View Post

6. Is there any difference to the output signal if I record to a DVD and then finalize it? I probably misunderstood but I got the impression somewhere that after finalization the output might go back to full screen (probably wishful thinking.)

No difference. Finalizing doesn't change aspect, just makes DVD playable in other recorders/players.
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