Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 362 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10831 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 11:43 AM
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apparently missed it again. One more time

 

Title Index Screen.doc 424k . file

 

Titling Screen.doc 322.5k . file
Attached Files
File Type: doc Titling Screen.doc (322.5 KB, 38 views)
File Type: doc Title Index Screen.doc (424.0 KB, 42 views)
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post #10832 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Maybe you can use this post to see what might be different. Here's my intro text, and I've Attached a file from my computer using the Manage Attachments button. Notice "Valid File Extensions" (mine is a jpg)... might be something there?

Oops, I'll bet it's a filesize issue... note max file size for each type of image.

Thanks...may have been a file issue...more likely my problem as I didn't click on the 'submit reply' on the manage attachments page.

wajo....I'm concerned that the post where I explained the procedure for 'titling' of a recording and the suggested 'title index' may have gotten lost in the translation due to the lack of the sketches. Let me know if I need to re-post again with the sketches AND text as part of the attachment, and review if possible my post and see if it needs to be revised.
Thanks.
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post #10833 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hollandboy View Post

Thanks...may have been a file issue...more likely my problem as I didn't click on the 'submit reply' on the manage attachments page.

wajo....I'm concerned that the post where I explained the procedure for 'titling' of a recording and the suggested 'title index' may have gotten lost in the translation due to the lack of the sketches. Let me know if I need to re-post again with the sketches AND text as part of the attachment, and review if possible my post and see if it needs to be revised.
Thanks.

Just click the Edit button and I think you can add the Attacnment(s) in that menu same as on an original post.

If those attachments are from your computer, you can use the first Browse boxes to paste them directly in the post? Might be better than URLs or "click to download" images?
I see now they're Word files? You can, however, Browse to the images in your computer and paste thise directly using the top ATtachment Browse boxes. Handle text separately?

ONCE WE GET THIS RIGHT< we might both want to go back and Delete our superfluous posts... confusing?
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post #10834 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Not necessarily true. People have reported here that they have only an STB and not a DVR and they can still select programs to "Record" as if they did have a DVR as described in these Tips for STB Users.

People with STBs w/o DVRs: Check your manual and menus for a "RECORD" function like those described in the Tips linked above and see if you, like many others, can use that to set up "phantom" recordings for unattended copying to the DVDR via a coordinated timer rec program. The STB does the scheduling of viewing or recording so it's possible that virtually *EVERY* STB has a view/record scheduling feature.

Wajo, My VIP211K doesn't have a DVR. In the menu setup there is an option to enable VCR. With that enabled it is so simple to set up timed recordings. I just go into the Timer section and input the channel(s) and time(s) that i want to record and that's all there is to it.The Sat. receiver box turns on for the scheduled time(s),tunes the channel for that time period specified then turns itself off. If there are multiple channels and times,it turns itself on and off for each time and channel entered in to it. There are actually several ways to enter a timed session but it's to difficult for me to explain in a typewritten post. G.
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post #10835 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hollandboy View Post

Or you can switch to a cable provider and purchase a DVR (TiVo) that will record the programs for you, then afterward transfer them to the Mag.

You also need a Cable Card that requires a monthly cableco fee.

Quote:


Although I'm also not happy to pay any provider for a DVR, it's not as horrible as you might think. If they charge $7/mnth that equates to $84/yr. No idea what TiVo or Moxi costs these days, but the last time I looked they were around $250. That's 3 years of the provider's DVR,

Unfortunately, it is not $7/mth DVR anywhere that I am aware of, certainly not around where I live. It's hard to find out the real costs because the provider websites tend to obscure the costs as much as possible.

Ignoring short term promotions, the lowest I could find earlier this year was $12/month. Direct TV is $7/month for DVR service PLUS a monthly fee per outlet which is $5. Comcast charges a flat $15/month per outlet, so if you have more than one DVR the fees rise faster. These are SD prices, HD costs more. Dual tuner 160GB Premiere TiVos can be bought from TiVo for $200, older models are sometimes available for less.

Quote:


and then it's unlikely that the TiVo or Moxi would be able to record multiple channels at the same time.

C'mon..., TiVo started the DVR industry and has had two tuners since way back when. Providers introduced their own DVRs to compete with TiVo, although not immediately. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_di...ideo_recorders for the history e.g. the Series 1 was introduced March 31, 1999 and that the "Series 1 DirecTV....have two tuners, DirecTiVos are able to record two programs at once."

Making comparisons is difficult, you really do need to do a lot of research to cut through the obfuscation.
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post #10836 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greaser View Post

Wajo, My VIP211K doesn't have a DVR. In the menu setup there is an option to enable VCR. With that enabled it is so simple to set up timed recordings. I just go into the Timer section and input the channel(s) and time(s) that i want to record and that's all there is to it.The Sat. receiver box turns on for the scheduled time(s),tunes the channel for that time period specified then turns itself off. If there are multiple channels and times,it turns itself on and off for each time and channel entered in to it. There are actually several ways to enter a timed session but it's to difficult for me to explain in a typewritten post. G.

Greaser, I'll change my help file link to your latest post (10838 above) for info. If you can or want to, Edit THAT post to add any other helpful info for people who might click on that link in the help file, i.e., trying to keep everything in one post for ease of ref.?
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post #10837 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 View Post

Dear gastrof,

I appreciate that I could study US regulation.

It is completely viseversa against Japan system.
Current Japanese DVD recorder and TV contains BS/CS tuner and we can contract payment on their OSD.

It means we do not need to have satelite STB in house.
However, if your RF in comes from cable company (not antenna), you need cable company's STB to decrypt.

Sorry my less knowledge.
I already asked to develop DVD recorder for cable card few month ago. But it was refused because of my mentioned reason.

gastrof, could you please indicate where I can find such regulation. Is there any US official document search?
When I understand it well, I will talk this suggestion to our top level management because it is important but difficult mission.
(Of course, I am not sure whether it will be accepted or not...)

234

Re-post

Please let me have any evidence that cable provider MUST release decrypt code to unit manufacturer.
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post #10838 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 01:16 PM
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True or false: an NTSC cable analog channel can not supply a data stream in the VBI that contains the PSIP tables. My research says no, that it's a ATSC/digital signal property. Any comments?
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post #10839 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

True or false: an NTSC cable analog channel can not supply a data stream in the VBI that contains the PSIP tables. My research says no, that it's a ATSC/digital signal property. Any comments?

Joe, correct. From Wiki:

"The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is the protocol used in the ATSC digital television system for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast MPEG transport stream of a TV station and for publishing information about television programs so that viewers can select what to watch by title and description."
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post #10840 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 View Post

Re-post

Please let me have any evidence that cable provider MUST release decrypt code to unit manufacturer.

I don't think they have to give you anything. I think he was talking about CableCard.

A CableCARD is a device that plugs into customer owned equipment. The CableCARD decodes scrambled cable channels. The CableCARD is owned by the cable company.

I think I found the document that contains this regulation.
Download the Telecommunications Act of 1996 from the FCC (PDF) here. Go to page 85 and read:
SEC. 304. COMPETITIVE AVAILABILITY OF NAVIGATION DEVICES.

I hope this is what you are looking for.
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post #10841 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Joe, correct. From Wiki:

"The Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) is the protocol used in the ATSC digital television system for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast MPEG transport stream of a TV station and for publishing information about television programs so that viewers can select what to watch by title and description."

Thank you. Since Mr. 234 has stated that PSIP carries the time signal for the 2150, and I only get cable, I can only believe that bad time comes from PBS playing with an unknown factor that makes my clock go nuts. I get no PSIP data on any digital channel and I have submitted a complaint to the FCC.

I hated to do that since my little cable company has decided to drop 12 more analog channels next month. Their BBS channel has published this and both the cable box channels of the dropped channels, like 562, but also the clear QAM channels, like 26.xxx for use by people without boxes. Like me. Life is amazing.
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post #10842 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Thank you. Since Mr. 234 has stated that PSIP carries the time signal for the 2150, and I only get cable, I can only believe that bad time comes from PBS playing with an unknown factor that makes my clock go nuts. I get no PSIP data on any digital channel and I have submitted a complaint to the FCC.

I hated to do that since my little cable company has decided to drop 12 more analog channels next month. Their BBS channel has published this and both the cable box channels of the dropped channels, like 562, but also the clear QAM channels, like 26.xxx for use by people without boxes. Like me. Life is amazing.

I could be mistaken, but I've read that cablecos are "supposed" to or "encouraged" to pass on PSIP data but I don't think that's a "law" or "punishable rule." Therein might be the crux of the problem for cable subs... I suspect the cablecos have at least one Senator in their pocket, and we know it only takes one!
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post #10843 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sydyen View Post

You also need a Cable Card that requires a monthly cableco fee.

Unfortunately, it is not $7/mth DVR anywhere that I am aware of, certainly not around where I live. It's hard to find out the real costs because the provider websites tend to obscure the costs as much as possible.

Ignoring short term promotions, the lowest I could find earlier this year was $12/month. Direct TV is $7/month for DVR service PLUS a monthly fee per outlet which is $5. Comcast charges a flat $15/month per outlet, so if you have more than one DVR the fees rise faster. These are SD prices, HD costs more. Dual tuner 160GB Premiere TiVos can be bought from TiVo for $200, older models are sometimes available for less.


C'mon..., TiVo started the DVR industry and has had two tuners since way back when. Providers introduced their own DVRs to compete with TiVo, although not immediately. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiVo_di...ideo_recorders for the history e.g. the Series 1 was introduced March 31, 1999 and that the "Series 1 DirecTV....have two tuners, DirecTiVos are able to record two programs at once."

Making comparisons is difficult, you really do need to do a lot of research to cut through the obfuscation.


I know that TiVo had multiple tuner models, but since I'm not familiar with current TiVo costs, I was referring to the lowest priced TiVo which I assumed wouldn't have multiple tuners (maybe they all do now).
If DirectTV is $7, for the DVR, that's spot on. The additional STBs may not be necessary. So $200 for the TiVo, plus ? cost fee per month, plus the warranty costs (90 days???).....Bottom line it's probably a wash between getting the DVR upgrade from STB or cablecard vs a standalone TiVo.
Agree that comparisons are difficult as it's definitely all over the place. If a person is subscribing to something more than just basic channels (local channels and a few extra channels) then it may be worth adding the cost of a provider DVR. If you're getting the basic stuff with a cable card...maybe not.
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post #10844 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I could be mistaken, but I've read that cablecos are "supposed" to or "encouraged" to pass on PSIP data but I don't think that's a "law" or "punishable rule." Therein might be the crux of the problem for cable subs... I suspect the cablecos have at least one Senator in their pocket, and we know it only takes one!

I hate to tell you 'I told you so'.....but.....cable cos and satellite cos charge what the market will bear. They will also 'scramble/encrypt/whatever' any signals, so that they can sell/lease you their product to view programs. It makes their suppliers (the channels) happier when they do that because the channels hope to sell their DVD programs to you, and the broadcast providers hope to make some money on the rent/lease of their equipment.
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post #10845 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by hollandboy View Post

I hate to tell you 'I told you so'.....but.....cable cos and satellite cos charge what the market will bear. They will also 'scramble/encrypt/whatever' any signals, so that they can sell/lease you their product to view programs. It makes their suppliers (the channels) happier when they do that because the channels hope to sell their DVD programs to you, and the broadcast providers hope to make some money on the rent/lease of their equipment.

Most cable network revenue comes from the sale of advertising. With cable networks that have commercials "viewership ratings" determines rates changed for advertising. The higher the viewership the more the cable network charges for advertising.

The attachment breaks down 2009 cable network monthly revenue per subscriber.
Cable companies also sell advertising for insertion into cable network programming.

According to this document our household paid $0.26 per month during 2009 for Turner Classic Movies. This is the amount our local Comcast franchise paid per month per subscriber to carry Turner Classic Movies.

Turner Classic Movies presents movies "uncut and commercial free" so there is no revenue from advertising and no competition for "ratings."
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post #10846 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Most cable network revenue comes from the sale of advertising. With cable networks that have commercials "viewership ratings" determines rates changed for advertising. The higher the viewership the more the cable network charges for advertising.

The attachment breaks down 2009 cable network monthly revenue per subscriber.
Cable companies also sell advertising for insertion into cable network programming.

According to this document our household paid $0.26 per month during 2009 for Turner Classic Movies. This is the amount our local Comcast franchise paid per month per subscriber to carry Turner Classic Movies.

Turner Classic Movies presents movies "uncut and commercial free" so there is no revenue from advertising and no competition for "ratings."

I'm on your side. Cable companies have fewer subs the more they fiddle with their feeds. I have to look at crawls all day telling me how many subs you can reach by advertising on my cable feed. True, they are dropping most analog channels to add more HD channels, but this is an SD type forum and I still get the DMA specific networks in HD on my TV. On the other side though, I know a lot of my cable bill goes to the mouse ears due to 4 ESPN channels that I never watch. Some days are better than others I guess.
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post #10847 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

I don't think they have to give you anything. I think he was talking about CableCard.

A CableCARD is a device that plugs into customer owned equipment. The CableCARD decodes scrambled cable channels. The CableCARD is owned by the cable company.

I think I found the document that contains this regulation.
Download the Telecommunications Act of 1996 from the FCC (PDF) here. Go to page 85 and read:
SEC. 304. COMPETITIVE AVAILABILITY OF NAVIGATION DEVICES.

I hope this is what you are looking for.

Dear ken,

Thank you for your advide.
As it is something difficult for me to understand enough to have confidence, I looked for some page.

"FCC 76.1201" looks important for this issue. (But I could not find the regulation itself.)
And I wonder that below page shows something...

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2008/DA-08-2299A1.html

I need to have enough evidence to persuade them.
But because of my English ability, it takes much time to look for target description.
I appreciate if you could advice me the law.
Thank you everyone.
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post #10848 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by single_digit View Post

I just want TiVo type functionality without paying a subscription...

You can pay a set, upfront, lifetime fee with TiVo, to avoid having to pay a monthly charge.
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post #10849 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Most cable network revenue comes from the sale of advertising. With cable networks that have commercials "viewership ratings" determines rates changed for advertising. The higher the viewership the more the cable network charges for advertising.

No argument that advertising pays for a percentage of the money providers make. Lately, however, advertisers are questioning the value of their commercials when those who have DVRs and HDDs, most likely are skipping through them.
In addition, the days of 10 or even 30 channels is long gone. That 1 dollar spread over 10 channels 50 years ago, is now having to spread over 100+ channels today. That's why every 'mom & pop' retailer or manuf. can now advertise on TV. The providers are getting their money wherever they can. Don't know anyone around my area whose cable/satellite bill has gone down from 10 years ago. I know mine hasn't (20% increase from 2008).
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post #10850 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 View Post

Dear ken,

Thank you for your advide.
As it is something difficult for me to understand enough to have confidence, I looked for some page.

"FCC 76.1201" looks important for this issue. (But I could not find the regulation itself.)
And I wonder that below page shows something...

http://www.fcc.gov/eb/Orders/2008/DA-08-2299A1.html

I need to have enough evidence to persuade them.
But because of my English ability, it takes much time to look for target description.
I appreciate if you could advice me the law.
Thank you everyone.

Dear 234,

You might want to read this fairly recent article* on how the FCC is "fed up" with cable cards and is seeking a new way to deliver TV service from multi-channel provideers. (*Google search entry has Apr 1 2010 date.)

Specifically, that article says this:

"CableCARD was an attempt by the FCC to create competition in the market for set-top boxes and DVRs by making it easy for third-party devices to access cable's video streams, even those that were encrypted. In this, it failed. We've noted for years that almost no one used the devices and that nearly all CableCARDs actually ended up in cable's own set-top boxes instead of in competing third-party products."

The end paragraph says this:

"So, even as the industry kicks off its "tru2way" platform, the FCC has decided to wade in once more, patch the CableCARD program, and get to work on something to replace it."

I'm wondering if we should wait on delving into cable cards too deeply and spending $$$ (Yen) on a technology that *might* be going away fairly soon?
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post #10851 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

You can pay a set, upfront, lifetime fee with TiVo, to avoid having to pay a monthly charge.

A friend of mine bought the 'lifetime' service...his TiVo broke down after almost 3 years and he wanted to get another one. Guess what?... the 'lifetime subscription' he got doesn't apply to another TiVo. It's only good for 'that' particular TiVo. So in essence, the TiVo cost him around $600/3 years. That was four years ago so I don't know what TiVo is doing these days.
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post #10852 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:43 PM
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I am assuming the picture quality is downgraded to DVD quality before going to the HDD of the MDR513H (as opposed to only downgrading prior to burning a DVD.

I purchased my H2160MW9A last October. I was using a VCR up to that point. And I don't know how I got along without my Magnavox. It is so nice having a hard drive DVR over a VCR. I like the ability to archive and edit down the videos.

You are right, this DVR does everything in standard def. HQ is about the same quality as DVD with the other modes less so. It depends on the content how much the picture quality degrades. Very little movement things like presidential speeches can be recorded at almost any setting and I don't think you would know the difference. I have my Magnavox hooked up to a 30 inch high def tube TV over the HDMI cable. It looks very good for my setup.

If your looking to save a few dollars, J&R gets referbs from time to time. Usually someone posts about their arrival so you can get one that way. Just monitor this thread. Most of the referbs have been reported to be in very good to almost new condition. I bought my unit from Walmart online and have been very happy with it.
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post #10853 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hollandboy View Post

A friend of mine bought the 'lifetime' service...his TiVo broke down after almost 3 years and he wanted to get another one. Guess what?... the 'lifetime subscription' he got doesn't apply to another TiVo. It's only good for 'that' particular TiVo. So in essence, the TiVo cost him around $600/3 years. That was four years ago so I don't know what TiVo is doing these days.

it's my understanding that if you return the unit to Tivo for repair (even if out of warranty) and they replace it with another unit of the same model, the lifetime will transfer to the new unit.

BTW: the Moxi will record 3 programs. The Ceton card for a windows media center pc will handle 4 and you can put multiple cards in a pc.
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post #10854 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 06:17 PM
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it's my understanding that if you return the unit to Tivo for repair (even if out of warranty) and they replace it with another unit of the same model, the lifetime will transfer to the new unit.

BTW: the Moxi will record 3 programs. The Ceton card for a windows media center pc will handle 4 and you can put multiple cards in a pc.

Neighbor has a Moxi...thought they paid $500 or so for theirs, but no monthly fees. Biggest benefit, they say, it will playback in user controlled slow motion (from frame x frame and up). Have had to replace one that they've had for 4 years though.
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post #10855 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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post #10856 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hollandboy View Post

A friend of mine bought the 'lifetime' service...his TiVo broke down after almost 3 years and he wanted to get another one. Guess what?... the 'lifetime subscription' he got doesn't apply to another TiVo. It's only good for 'that' particular TiVo. So in essence, the TiVo cost him around $600/3 years. That was four years ago so I don't know what TiVo is doing these days.

A few month back, at a nearby Costco Warehouse, the price sign for a Tivo stated (in small print) "....price shown is for "lease" of this equipment, not ownership". (Price: in the $200+ range.)

Moral: Always read the fine print.

ww
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post #10857 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post



For Newbies who might be getting confused:

Tivo HD-DVR thread is here.

Moxi HD-DVR thread is here.

DTVPal HD-DVR thread is here.


Thanks! enough about Tivo already
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post #10858 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 234 View Post

Re-post

Please let me have any evidence that cable provider MUST release decrypt code to unit manufacturer.

They don't.

Please notice it was said they must cooperate with cable card devices, and provide cable cards that will work with such devices.

This means they must allow a customer to use their own equipment, interacting with the cable system by use of cable cards.

They do NOT release their codes to manufacturers. What they MUST do is provide cable cards that will allow TVs and recorders to work without an external cable box.
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post #10859 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 07:42 PM
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Ah, sorry but "they" does not mean cable provider but my boss...
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post #10860 of 27986 Old 09-02-2010, 10:22 PM
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234,
Did you see my post re: Titling of recordings, and Title Screen? One post has the text, a couple of posts later has the sketches of how the screens for each look.

If its too confusing, let me know and maybe I can post again with sketch and text together.
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