Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 370 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11071 of 27974 Old 09-11-2010, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Artwire, thanks for that info, and it appears to be the same as ylou already posted here, which I point to in the Tips section of the Rec to HDD help file.
Except there, I say the 3200 has a "Reminder" feature, which seems to be NOT the right word? Is this where the other guy just "highlights the R"?

Another question I think you said above: the 3200 dows allow you to select multiple programs to "Record"?
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post #11072 of 27974 Old 09-11-2010, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Gotta go now. BACK TO THE FUTURE PART TWO is on, and I want to see what life in the U.S. will be like in the distant future year of 2015.

All I know is we have less than 5 years to invent hoverboards...
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post #11073 of 27974 Old 09-11-2010, 01:28 PM
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Let me look again.....


you click the program in the guide, then you click icon with "R" on it which is subtitled "Set or Cancel a VCR recording" (confusing!), then you click "R" again to Record to VCR, and to set the timer to start earlier/later than the exact time of the show you click "View Recording Settings for this program" (a wrench icon), which gives you choice to set it to record once (or daily, weekly, m-f), to start on time (or toggle for 5 mins early, 15 mins late,etc), end time , then you hit R again to "record with these settings or the cancel icon to not record. Then.... you're ready to fiddle with the actual recorder!

You can set several programs, and schedule repeat programs as well ( though I haven't tried that), I've never tested the maximum but have set three or four different programs at a time.

The REMINDER feature has a bell icon... different function. " Set or cancel a reminder" and when you click the choices are Remind, dont remind and (wrench) view reminder settings.... (same options as the recorder, but ... I dont think REMINDER actually changes channels, just tells you a show is coming up. I used to fiddle with reminder to set the time early so as to NOT interfere with recordings that I'd already set up, but otherwise generally dont use it. There's no way to turn it off, as far as I can tell, and the reminder comes on if you set the recorder. Pretty convoluted process!
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post #11074 of 27974 Old 09-11-2010, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Artwire, thanks for the details. I'll add your post to the help file for people to see "the detailed procedure" if they're interested.
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post #11075 of 27974 Old 09-11-2010, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Can do what?

What you were talking about.

1. press info and look for setup VCR or recording
2 highlight the " R " and you are done
3 set the recorder to record from external source making sure you can see the Tv show thats being played thru the unit.
4. Set the time on the recorder and you are done



Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

What box is he talking about and what is it he can do by just "highlighting the R and you're done"?

As mentioned, I don't recall which cable box model this works with.

I did say that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Is he highlighting the R in a guide or other menu?

1. press info and look for setup VCR or recording
2 highlight the " R " and you are done


If you've pressed "info" and there's something you can then look for, it sounds like a change of onscreen info or controls to me!
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post #11076 of 27974 Old 09-11-2010, 08:51 PM
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The 3200 works with the record function and so does the 700 or whatever the crappy cable box they give you for free along with your twp DTA boxes.
I know becuase I've had both and they do the exact same thing as far as record to VCR goes.
Nice thing is the DCH-3200 also outputs whatever your watching in SD through the Svideo cable so I can at least record the HD version to my 3575 in SD and analog sound even if I'm watching the HD channel.
Bad part is the damned reminder screen and it wont turn itself on to record like a VCR or DVD recorder does so you have to leave it on to record anything.
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post #11077 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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?

Copy One HDD to Another?

On Videohelp.com, vbdani has two Philips 3455's and successfully copied a "bad" HDD to a new one using the Linux dd command. His drives were FAT32.

He started his copy project by following some advice to partition the "bad" HDD, but that didn't work. His "good" drive had NO partitions, suggesting our drives also might be FAT32 wtihout partitions? I've seen several other refs to FAT32 for USB memory sticks, etc.
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post #11078 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

?

Copy One HDD to Another?

On Videohelp.com, vbdani has two Philips 3455's and successfully copied a "bad" HDD to a new one using the Linux dd command. His drives were FAT32.

He started his copy project by following some advice to partition the "bad" HDD, but that didn't work. His "good" drive had NO partitions, suggesting our drives also might be FAT32 wtihout partitions? I've seen several other refs to FAT32 for USB memory sticks, etc.

Assuming Philips/Funai used the same Linux file system in our original 357x and follow-on 2160/513, could this be the holy grail we've been looking for?

?

What I got from it was that he removed the HDD from both of his 3455s and put them in a PC. He used a Linux CD to boot the PC, then copied the contents of the working recorder's drive to the non-working recorder's drive with the dd command. He then removed the drives from the PC and re-installed them back into their original places. The non-working recorder then worked again and it had a copy of all of the recordings from the other machine.

He said:
"someone said you need to partition a drive as fat32, then load the firmware via cd. tried it, didn't work for me. when i boot with linux cd and look at both drives (we will just call them good and bad), the good drive shows no partitions and the bad drive shows a fat32 partition. that makes me wonder if a fat32 partition will really work with this dvdr."

I think that means his 3455 did not work with a FAT32 partition. When he copied the working drive to the non working drive with dd I believe the FAT32 partition was removed in the process.
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post #11079 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

...suggesting our drives also might be FAT32 wtihout partitions?

Isn't FAT32 a type of partition?
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post #11080 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Isn't FAT32 a type of partition?


it's my understanding that when you format a drive and create partition(s), the volume(s) can be set to use the FAT32 file allocation structure or another file structure. Technically an 'unpartitioned' drive that is formatted already has one volume (itself), but I generally use the term when I want to make multiple partitions on a drive ( each partition can boot or at least be mounted separately)

So, ... not exactly equal, but if you've formatted it as a FAT32 partition, the end result is the same . On my mac drives, for example, I use the GUID Partition Table , but if I wanted to use windows on that drive, as well, I could use bootcamp to create a FAT32 partition. I generally only use FAT32 on removable media (usb sticks, for example) so, hardly an expert on this topic!

However, I think maximum file size limit on a FAT32 volume is just under 4 GB. For larger file transfers, don't people use NTFS ?
Maybe that's why the nonFAT32("good drive") in the above example worked?
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post #11081 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

He started his copy project by following some advice to partition the "bad" HDD, but that didn't work. His "good" drive had NO partitions, suggesting our drives also might be FAT32 wtihout partitions? I've seen several other refs to FAT32 for USB memory sticks, etc.

Some additional info I forgot was already in the help files on FAT32 are some links to Wiki on that subject that seem to confirm FAT32 is the "normal" HDD file system and UDF is the "normal" DVD file system.
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post #11082 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 09:45 AM
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Might be useful if anyone is playing with linux

http://www.ehow.com/how_1000631_hard-drive-linux.html
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post #11083 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 11:10 AM
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many operating systems support the concept of "raw", meaning that an application can write/read to a drive in any way it chooses. its most likely that these boxes don't have an OS, just an application program(s). many of the older database managers used "raw", mainly for performance reasons.
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post #11084 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

?

Copy One HDD to Another?

On Videohelp.com, vbdani has two Philips 3455's and successfully copied a "bad" HDD to a new one using the Linux dd command. His drives were FAT32.

He started his copy project by following some advice to partition the "bad" HDD, but that didn't work. His "good" drive had NO partitions, suggesting our drives also might be FAT32 wtihout partitions? I've seen several other refs to FAT32 for USB memory sticks, etc.

Assuming Philips/Funai used the same Linux file system in our original 357x and follow-on 2160/513, could this be the holy grail we've been looking for?

Important note?

The Philips 3455 was a 2006 machine, and the Philips 3575 and the Mag series started in 2007.

This timing is encouraging since it could mean that Philips continued with Linux in the 357x and, if not, then Funai might have done so separately in the 1st of the Mag series (2080) or any of its follow-on units (2160, 2160A and 513).

Basically, this means we shouldn't ass-u-me that if one brand/model didn't follow the Linux format, none of them did.

No, there is no file system or partition on the disk. The Linux command basically just copying the entire disk raw.

I've also tried suggestion from scott967 to use UFS Explorer to look at the disk. It also reported the same thing, no partition, no file system. However, one thing I've found interesting was UFS explorer was able to scan the disk for video files, and report about 5,000 fragments of Mpeg videos I've extracted them, but can't play them at all. I think they will have to be put together in correct Mpeg format files before we can play.

So the bottom line is: no partition, no file system. We will have to know how FUNAI FW reads/writes the sectors to be able to extract the video files.
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post #11085 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhi78 View Post

So the bottom line is: no partition, no file system. We will have to know how FUNAI FW reads/writes the sectors to be able to extract the video files.

While some might want a way to "extract video files," others might just want to copy one HDD content to another (new) one in a "raw" process so it's playable and recordable, without having to "extract" or address each file.

Is that what you tried to do with the Linux dd command?

If so, what unit(s)?
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post #11086 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

While some might want a way to "extract video files," others might just want to copy one HDD content to another (new) one in a "raw" process so it's playable and recordable, without having to "extract" or address each file.

Is that what you tried to do with the Linux dd command?

If so, what unit(s)?

Wajo,

I did not try the Linux dd command to copy the disk. I was trying to read the video files only. I know the Linux dd command allow users to copy raw data by duplicating an entire partition to a different disk.

For me, it's a big hassle to open the player, and pull out the disk and archive it that way. So I just dup the recorded programs to DVD+RW to archive them on USB hard disk. My experiments were only for possible contribution here, I actually don't have a need for it
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post #11087 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhi78 View Post

Wajo,

I did not try the Linux dd command to copy the disk. I was trying to read the video files only. I know the Linux dd command allow users to copy raw data by duplicating an entire partition to a different disk.

For me, it's a big hassle to open the player, and pull out the disk and archive it that way. So I just dup the recorded programs to DVD+RW to archive them on USB hard disk. My experiments were only for possible contribution here, I actually don't have a need for it

I'm still hoping some Linux user can try that dd command since many people who are upgrading from a 80 or 160GB drive could use it to copy their files to the new 500GB (or whatever size) new drive in one raw copy op... they won't have to copy each title to DVD, copy back to HDD, etc.

* * * * * * *
Here's the latest info on this subject in the help file on file systems, etc.:

HDD Copy

A Philips 3455 user copied the entire contents of one HDD to another using the Linux dd command ("copy and convert a file"), and the new HDD operated normally, as described here.

He mentions FAT32 in the link above, but later here he says the HDD that worked showed NO formatting using gparted Live CD. The "no-formatting" sounds right since I believe new HDDs we buy don't have a specific formatting cuz they need to be able to be formatted for all kinds of uses and operating systems.

The Linux dd command is a "raw" process that doesn't involve addressing and extracting each individual file one at a time. It's does a "global" copy from one HDD to another. (File extraction for title recovery is discussed in the next subject below.)

Since the 3455 was built in 2006 and our 357x and Mag series started in 2007, it's quite likely that our HDDs can also be copied to other HDDs with the Linux dd command.

Funai mfg'd all these units but since they only had complete "control" over the Mags, so we need to check each brand.

Here's a short tutorial on how to copy an entire HDD with the Linux dd command.

Here's another tutorial that describes how to use Linux to copy a smaller HDD to a larger one, like 160GB to 500GB as we like to do, and retain ALL the space of the larger one. SInce that specific command might be hard to find, here's the statement from the tutorial:

"If you duplicate a smaller partition to a larger one, using dd, the larger one will now be formatted the same as the smaller one. And there will be no space left on the drive. The way around this is to use rsync."
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post #11088 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

A Philips 3455 user copied files from one HDD to another using the Linux dd command ("copy and convert a file"), as described here. He confirmed that the 3455 HDD was FAT 32 with no partitions.

Where did he confirm the 3455 HDD was FAT32 with no partitions? He said he tried FAT32 and it did not work.
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post #11089 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 05:53 PM
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If speed or simplicity is needed, raw partitions is the way to go. There is quite a bit of overhead with file systems.

If there is a FAT32 file system running without a valid partition. No computer will recognize it. It would not be hard to move it to a valid partition on another drive and see what is on it. You won't need to is make a partition on a larger hard drive and then use dd or a disk imaging software to copy after the beginning of the partition. You would have to modify the boot sector at location 0x1c for the new location. All the other sector number are reference from here so that is the only one that needs to be modified. For more information check out the Wiki.

I wonder what is on byte 0x03 and on of the drive. It would be text of some sort identifying the file system if it is FAT. You just might drive me to mount my old 160 Gig hard drive to see what I can find on it.
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post #11090 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I'm still hoping some Linux user can try that dd command since many people who are upgrading from a 80 or 160GB drive could use it to copy their files to the new 500GB (or whatever size) new drive in one raw copy op... they won't have to copy each title to DVD, copy back to HDD, etc.

The problem here is that you'll still wind up with a destination disk which believes it is only the size of the original drive. DD will copy the disk, block by block, including the partition table and sizes, thus you'll end up with a 500 GB drive thinking it is only a 160 GB drive (assuming you copied a 160 GB drive to a 500 GB drive).

There needs to be way to increase the size of the "data" partition (assuming there is one). On the TiVo front, they use "MFSTools" in order to backup, restore and EXPAND the partition sizes. The expansion is the piece missing here (the ability to have all available disk space actually be available for recordings).
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post #11091 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Where did he confirm the 3455 HDD was FAT32 with no partitions? He said he tried FAT32 and it did not work.

He said he tried a FAT32 WITH a partition and that didn't work, but the nonpartitioned FAT32 did work.
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post #11092 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

He said he tried a FAT32 WITH a partition and that didn't work, but the nonpartitioned FAT32 did work.

He said the FAT32 drive worked after cloning a non FAT32 drive with dd. That would have removed FAT32 from the drive.
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post #11093 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I'm still hoping some Linux user can try that dd command since many people who are upgrading from a 80 or 160GB drive could use it to copy their files to the new 500GB (or whatever size) new drive in one raw copy op... they won't have to copy each title to DVD, copy back to HDD, etc...............

Possibly Funai also uses the same Linux Ext2/Ext3 file system as used in the DUNE HD MAX and DUNE PRIME DVR's. They require an Ext2 File System Driver be installed on a Windows PC system in order to read/format a drive outside the unit.

Dune HD Max Quick Start PFD Guide (pgs.9-10):
http://dune-hd.com/uploads/manuals/D...tart_guide.pdf

Ext2Fsd Driver:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/



ww
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post #11094 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Collins View Post

The problem here is that you'll still wind up with a destination disk which believes it is only the size of the original drive. DD will copy the disk, block by block, including the partition table and sizes, thus you'll end up with a 500 GB drive thinking it is only a 160 GB drive (assuming you copied a 160 GB drive to a 500 GB drive).

There needs to be way to increase the size of the "data" partition (assuming there is one). On the TiVo front, they use "MFSTools" in order to backup, restore and EXPAND the partition sizes. The expansion is the piece missing here (the ability to have all available disk space actually be available for recordings).

Lots of info on the web about using dd command, including how to copy a smaller drive to a larger one and not have the larger one take the size of the smaller one, as in:

"If you duplicate a smaller partition to a larger one, using dd, the larger one will now be formatted the same as the smaller one. And there will be no space left on the drive. The way around this is to use "rsync"

which is part of this tutorial, just one of many.

Of course, I only learned to spell "Linux" an hour ago!
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post #11095 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Lots of info on the web about using dd command, including how to copy a smaller drive to a larger one and not have the larger one take the size of the smaller one, as in:

"If you duplicate a smaller partition to a larger one, using dd, the larger one will now be formatted the same as the smaller one. And there will be no space left on the drive. The way around this is to use "rsync"

which is part of this tutorial, just one of many.

Of course, I only learned to spell "Linux" an hour ago!

Unfortunately, saying "there will be no space left on the drive" isn't necessarily the same as saying that whatever you're trying to clone will actually use all of the space on the new larger drive.

Even proprietary partition schemes almost certainly have to store a partition size somewhere, probably near the front of the drive. Cloning to a larger drive may be possible with Linux utilities or utilities like Ghost or Acronis or Easeus Todo Backup, but to get the DVR (or whatever) to actually use the increased space you must know the exact location and format of that partition size so you can adjust it appropriately.
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post #11096 of 27974 Old 09-12-2010, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waldwolf View Post

Possibly Funai also uses the same Linux Ext2/Ext3 file system as used in the DUNE HD MAX and DUNE PRIME DVR's. They require an Ext2 File System Driver be installed on a Windows PC system in order to read/format a drive outside the unit.

Dune HD Max Quick Start PFD Guide (pgs.9-10):
http://dune-hd.com/uploads/manuals/D...tart_guide.pdf

Ext2Fsd Driver:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ext2fsd/



ww

It does not use any of these partition types. I've used Ubuntu to look at the disk. It's not any of the more obscure partition types like Jfs or rfs,... either!

Currently, the work around for users who are upgrading to larger drive, e.g. 500GB, would be to clone it to the larger drive, install it in the Mag/Philips and use it as 160GB until all titles have been watched and deleted, or archived and deleted. And then do a SKIP command to format it. After formatting with SKIP, it should be 500GB.
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post #11097 of 27974 Old 09-13-2010, 07:53 AM
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off topic a little but..

DANG!!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

400 bucks?

i got mine for 160..

dang..

some one is being gouged..
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post #11098 of 27974 Old 09-13-2010, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Need Curious Volunteer for a Simple Test

The 2160/513 manuals say they won't record the date/time display from a DV camera thru a firewire conneciton (L3). However, the manual has been wrong on a number of other things.

Since the 2160/513 can record digital CC, I'm wondering if they can see and record date/time if Digital CC is turned ON.

I know, lots of theories why this shouldn't work, but I'm hoping someone with a DV camcorder and a 2160, 2160A or 513 will do a simple test to prove it one way or another... and who knows, maybe someone already has, altho prob. not since the manual says it won't work?

You don't have to record anything, just set up for a DV>HDD copy (help here if needed).

Make sure you also:
  1. Turn the 2160/513's Display > DTV CC "Caption Service" to Service 1 and "Recording" to ON.
  2. Set the camcorder for Video mode.
  3. Turn the camera's date/time display ON. You may need to confirm it's on (since it's so important) by viewing thru a diff. connection type to your TV?
Play the DV tape and see if your TV shows the date/time display. If it does, record a short section just to prove that it not only displays the info but can record it. If it doesn't display, you're done.

You won't need any TV CC settings for this.
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post #11099 of 27974 Old 09-13-2010, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuzzo View Post

off topic a little but..

DANG!!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listi...&condition=new

400 bucks?

i got mine for 160..

dang..

some one is being gouged..

Some folks never bother to browse around. They just naturally go to Amazon first--dumb, very dumb.

Folks that browse around are "Smart, Very Smart." (I seem to have heard that phrase somewhere.)

There are lots of folks never finding their way to Wajo's "answers" at the walmart.com Q&A or Wajo's AVS sticky thread. Such folks often return their Maggies--dumb, very dumb. Of course, that's good for others, the smart, very smart, purchasing like-new "refurbs" at J&R for $160.

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

--Benjamin Breckinridge Warfield (1917)
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post #11100 of 27974 Old 09-13-2010, 02:59 PM
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I guess that it is just because there is quite low stock in US.
The last shipment of H2160 was done about half year ago because we switched to MDR513H.

And I think not so much new items are stocked in any US warehouse.
There is no stock in our warehouse also, except refurbish.
I think not only Funai item but other brand item price also shifts like this. (price cycle)

for example)
$200 New item
$180 Few weeks later
$150 Competition
$140 Product final stage (last shipment)
$180 Not much stock any more
S500 Hall of Fame...
We always skip first 2 steps and goes into competition price from the first.

I do not think you have any reason to buy old item in spite of higher price.
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