Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 423 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12661 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post



How 'bout a used 3575 for $500!?


Are you saying that it would be hypocritical of me to sell my 3575 on E-bay. Maybe I could turn around and get two 515's.
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post #12662 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by timtofly View Post

Are you saying that it would be hypocritical of me to sell my 3575 on E-bay. Maybe I could turn around and get two 515's.

I can get 3 515's for my 3576 and have change left over to buy a few hundred blank DVD+Rs
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post #12663 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 10:16 AM
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Would it be nasty of me to try and sell my 2nd 3576 (the one that kept getting false anti-copy signals, and hasn't been used in months) on eBay for $500, and describe it as "an excellent DVR that can even transfer many shows to DVD"?
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post #12664 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Would it be nasty of me to try and sell my 2nd 3576 (the one that kept getting false anti-copy signals, and hasn't been used in months) on eBay for $500, and describe it as "an excellent DVR that can even transfer many shows to DVD"?

Used ones are going for that much. Maybe I should sell mine and upgrade and buy the 515. Let meknow if it sells. I also get the anti-copy signals.
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post #12665 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by TalkingRat View Post

The two things on my wish list are #8 and #41 -- dual tuners, and HD recording. Something to do what the CM7000pal DVR does, only better.

The Pal is a hard drive only recorder. Can't burn to DVD.

One of ours, if it didn't down-rez between the tuner and hard drive, wouldn't be able to burn to DVD from a high def recording.

Now, if a Blu-Ray drive was the disc burner...
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post #12666 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by gingus View Post

Used ones are going for that much. Maybe I should sell mine and upgrade and buy the 515. Let meknow if it sells. I also get the anti-copy signals.

Hmmm...

I did a "3576 DVR" search, and found only one for sale. Current price? "$5.50"

GAH!!!
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post #12667 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

AFAIK, China's always been wholly and totally "Communist"?

Actually, only since October 1949.
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post #12668 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 12:02 PM
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Actually, only since October 1949.

I remember when there was always a Red before the word China. Of course something similar could be said for Germany too. It's a strange world.
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post #12669 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

The Pal is a hard drive only recorder. Can't burn to DVD.

One of ours, if it didn't down-rez between the tuner and hard drive, wouldn't be able to burn to DVD from a high def recording.

Now, if a Blu-Ray drive was the disc burner...

I was wondering if this would still be the DVD Recorder Forum if that ever happened. Technically, What he asked for is correct. We only have to use the term "BD" because it won out over HD DVD. DVD has nothing to do with resolution, it is mainly capacity and the dreaded piracy problem. Resolution is handled by the MPEG group. For all practical purposes HD content is too big to fit on a DVD. However those backing HD DVD did have "DVD,s" that were able to contain HD content. For simplicity and to tell them apart, they just added the HD.


Even early BD's used the same MPEG2 standard that is housed on a DVD, they just had decoders that used two streams to convert it back into HD. While MPEG4 is now the main standard of HD and does a better job at decoding than MPEG2 to "shrink" the content, there is still too much content to shrink down to fit on DVD.

So technically you only have to down rez for room, not because of the term DVD. OF course if there is no burner at all, it would still be HD.

@Citibear, hopefully the BD phase will pass quickly like Beta... did and yes the transition from VHS to DVD was easy. I am just curious why Hard Drive and High Definition snuck into the mix?
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post #12670 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

I remember when there was always a Red before the word China. Of course something similar could be said for Germany too. It's a strange world.

No more competition from Russia?
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post #12671 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

The problem with many HD STBs and DVRs is that they insist on letterboxing everything out of their SD outputs. Recording a letterboxed signal greatly reduces the picture quality since you need to zoom the picture upon playback(if using a digital TV). Since you're wasting much of the DVD space recording black bars the picture won't be nearly as good as recording a full screen anamorphic signal.
DVRs and STBs do output wide screen over component which is why one would want to use such a converter. Also note most converters will downscale HD or pass 480i on, so you wouldn't really need to keep changing the resolution. I believe one converter only works if feeding it a HD signal(not 480i) so if you're planing on feeding it SD component you better make sure which converter you get.

Yes, I have an old Philips DVDR75 which has COMPONENT inputs and I record off the 8300's component outputs for that very reason (also to get CCs). Have to adjust the aspect ratio on the 8300 and downscale the video by setting to fixed resolution (rather than its usual "pass" setting) at 480i before recording, though.
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post #12672 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timtofly View Post

I was wondering if this would still be the DVD Recorder Forum if that ever happened. Technically, What he asked for is correct. We only have to use the term "BD" because it won out over HD DVD. DVD has nothing to do with resolution, it is mainly capacity and the dreaded piracy problem. Resolution is handled by the MPEG group. For all practical purposes HD content is too big to fit on a DVD. However those backing HD DVD did have "DVD,s" that were able to contain HD content. For simplicity and to tell them apart, they just added the HD.


Even early BD's used the same MPEG2 standard that is housed on a DVD, they just had decoders that used two streams to convert it back into HD. While MPEG4 is now the main standard of HD and does a better job at decoding than MPEG2 to "shrink" the content, there is still too much content to shrink down to fit on DVD.

So technically you only have to down rez for room, not because of the term DVD. OF course if there is no burner at all, it would still be HD.

@Citibear, hopefully the BD phase will pass quickly like Beta... did and yes the transition from VHS to DVD was easy. I am just curious why Hard Drive and High Definition snuck into the mix?

If any fee-free device could make HD (1080i)/DD5.1 content from cable and OTA save to the HDD would come out, I would buy one for each network. If archival storage (DVD) was only SD/DD2.0 that would be fine with me too. Tuner type isn't important for time shifting. True, the 500gb would only allow 60 hours or so. That's easy to fix. While this forum name is long, it could survive getting longer.

I hope somebody at the Funai home office is making a simple peel-off sticker for the 515H that they place over the DVD tray stating "Run Setup First".
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post #12673 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

...I hope somebody at the Funai home office is making a simple peel-off sticker for the 515H that they place over the DVD tray stating "Run Setup First".

Actually, what's needed is a large sticker that reads "Visit Wajo's Sticky Thread at the AVS Forum."

"A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME WILL SMELL AS SWEET. BUT IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT WHATEVER WE CHOOSE TO CALL A ROSE WILL POSSESS THE ROSE'S FRAGRANCE."

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post #12674 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

Yes, I have an old Philips DVDR75 which has COMPONENT inputs and I record off the 8300's component outputs for that very reason (also to get CCs). Have to adjust the aspect ratio on the 8300 and downscale the video by setting to fixed resolution (rather than its usual "pass" setting) at 480i before recording, though.

I've incorp. your 480i instruction in the help file... thanks.

Is your 8300 running SARA or Passport, and does it make any diff. in that setting. I still have info in the Aspect help file that said you have to send "Stretched" from a SARA 8300 to preserve WS aspect... nothing on 480i?
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post #12675 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DigaDo View Post

Actually, what's needed is a large sticker that reads "Visit Wajo's Sticky Thread at the AVS Forum."

Too many words. If they can't find the manual, I doubt they can find the forum. Yet they find time to post a one star review. I can't figure that one out and it hurts my head to try.
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post #12676 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I've incorp. your 480i instruction in the help file... thanks.

Is your 8300 running SARA or Passport, and does it make any diff. in that setting. I still have info in the Aspect help file that said you have to send "Stretched" from a SARA 8300 to preserve WS aspect... nothing on 480i?

Running SARA. I'm not sure why you'd have a help file for a Philips DVDR75 though (I'm not feeding the output of the Philips into my Maggie DVDR/HDD). I have to feed 480i into the Philips because it's a standard definition machine.

Jim
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post #12677 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

Running SARA. I'm not sure why you'd have a help file for a Philips DVDR75 though (I'm not feeding the output of the Philips into my Maggie DVDR/HDD). I have to feed 480i into the Philips because it's a standard definition machine.

Don't have a help file mentioning the 75. I do have files on SA8300 tho, which was the subject of my question.

Thanks for info.
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post #12678 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by timtofly View Post

I was wondering if this would still be the DVD Recorder Forum if that ever happened. Technically, What he asked for is correct. We only have to use the term "BD" because it won out over HD DVD. DVD has nothing to do with resolution, it is mainly capacity and the dreaded piracy problem. Resolution is handled by the MPEG group. For all practical purposes HD content is too big to fit on a DVD. However those backing HD DVD did have "DVD,s" that were able to contain HD content. For simplicity and to tell them apart, they just added the HD.


Even early BD's used the same MPEG2 standard that is housed on a DVD, they just had decoders that used two streams to convert it back into HD. While MPEG4 is now the main standard of HD and does a better job at decoding than MPEG2 to "shrink" the content, there is still too much content to shrink down to fit on DVD.

So technically you only have to down rez for room, not because of the term DVD. OF course if there is no burner at all, it would still be HD.

@Citibear, hopefully the BD phase will pass quickly like Beta... did and yes the transition from VHS to DVD was easy. I am just curious why Hard Drive and High Definition snuck into the mix?



LOL!

Didn't you just sort of make the same point I did, namely that a standard DVD wouldn't be of real use in burning a HD recording off the hard drive, a high def DVD burner being needed instead? That WAS the point I made.

That, and the fact the Pal recorder has no optical burner drive at all.

Edit:

Do have a question about your idea of 'the BD phase passing quickly'.

What would you suggest in its place as a way of making 'hard copies' of recordings in HD, if not on Blu-Ray discs?
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post #12679 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 04:06 PM
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There is software for a PC that will put HD on a regular DVD, of course you don't get a lot of content because of the limited capacity. The DVD will play on a Blu-Ray player in HD. A DVD player doesn't know what to do with it.
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post #12680 of 27986 Old 01-06-2011, 08:23 PM
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There is software for a PC that will put HD on a regular DVD, of course you don't get a lot of content because of the limited capacity. The DVD will play on a Blu-Ray player in HD. A DVD player doesn't know what to do with it.

Again, this doesn't address the ability to USEFULLY move an HD recording from a hard drive (in a machine otherwise identical to one of "ours") to an optical disc.

THAT's the point we were discussing.
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post #12681 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 12:27 AM
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The SA8300 already has composite (and component and HDMI) outputs, so why do you need the component-to-composite adapter? Additionally, if you're using the component output from the SA, all video on the SA >480i will have to be downscaled to 480i. Of course this can be done, but it's an extra step and you'll need to reset it when you're finished.



now I will have component-to-s video and no letterbox
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post #12682 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Omega_Man View Post



now I will have component-to-s video and no letterbox


Does this guy downconvert automatically to 480i and what is the quality of the downscaling?

Thanks,

Jim
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post #12683 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by gastrof View Post

Again, this doesn't address the ability to USEFULLY move an HD recording from a hard drive (in a machine otherwise identical to one of "ours") to an optical disc.

THAT's the point we were discussing.

Imageburn is freeware that will burn blu-ray and AVCHD to DVD using an ordinary DVD burner. It will only play on a Blu-ray player. By usefully I assume you mean the inconvenience of needing 3 dl DVDs to contain an HD movie without compressing it.. It is not all that impractical.
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post #12684 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 06:46 AM
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LOL!

Didn't you just sort of make the same point I did, namely that a standard DVD wouldn't be of real use in burning a HD recording off the hard drive, a high def DVD burner being needed instead? That WAS the point I made.

That, and the fact the Pal recorder has no optical burner drive at all.

Edit:

Do have a question about your idea of 'the BD phase passing quickly'.

What would you suggest in its place as a way of making 'hard copies' of recordings in HD, if not on Blu-Ray discs?

Well, TalkingRat just asked for dual tuner and HD encoding. He did not mention an optical drive. I was not trying to correct you, just adding facts in a fun way. VHS won the last war and BD won this one. However VHS and HD DVD were more open standards, and Beta.. / BD are more closed. HD DVD was just taking the DVD format to the next level IMO. I have a panasonic camera that will allow me to make HD recordings via AVHCD and I am burning it on a combo HD DVD player/DVD burner. However, it will not play on a BD player nor my HD DVD player. Thanks to the industry for allowing me so much that cannot even work together. I cannot even get a DVDR that will allow me to transfer my recordings to the hard drive and burn DVD's.

Go to any local Electronics store and tell me the percentage of blank BD, DVD, and SD cards there are. While SD cards are being driven by both Camera and Camcorder sales, they are also found in cell phones and MP3/Video players. I doubt you will ever see a BD disc of any form going to be made for these. Then you also have the mentality that everything can be had through the "cloud". That makes DVD or any form of BD recorders a niche group. The next generation are ripping cd's and or getting music and video from the internet; to transport around in players and phones and for added convenience extra storage via SD micro cards. Due to video piracy, Manufacturers have been relunctant to allow video to be transported via SD cards to current offerings of DVDR recorders. You can listen to music and look at pictures only. I think that if the industry had allowed video transfer, there would have been an even higher demand of SD cards.

In five years a 4 meg SD card has dropped from $100.00 to $10.00. While BD's can hold 8-12 times more, they have dropped less of a percentage, however they are in less demand than SD cards. If we had gotten BD recorders, that may have been a different story also. However SD cards are more versatile. They do have one flaw and that is electromagnetic fields. While not really a big issue, it is still there. You cannot ruin a DVD or BD in an electromagnetic field. Also like -RW they are rewritable, but I am sure that most people in this forum already are used to loosing data by accidently recording over a -RW before you moved the data you wanted off of it. If solid state drives take off and replace platter drives, I think that also will bring down the cost and increase the ability of SD cards. The irony of this is now we may have HD on SD instead of SD/HD on HDDVD.

So to answer your question about BD. I do not know. I do know that technology changes fast and since the industry did not push BD recorders, they may have caused them to have only a slight blure in history.
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post #12685 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

Imageburn is freeware that will burn blu-ray and AVCHD to DVD using an ordinary DVD burner. It will only play on a Blu-ray player. By usefully I assume you mean the inconvenience of needing 3 dl DVDs to contain an HD movie without compressing it.. It is not all that impractical.

I think the point is there are added steps to get current SD content from almost enjoyable stand alone DVDR's to a place where they can be fully enjoyed on our new 3DBDHDTV's. Add to the fact that we can now record in full HD/3D on Camcorders and Camera's and unless you use a Computer, there are no Fully Enjoyable Stand Alone Video Recorders, that as a group we have become used to.
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post #12686 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by JimLely View Post

Imageburn is freeware that will burn blu-ray and AVCHD to DVD using an ordinary DVD burner. It will only play on a Blu-ray player. By usefully I assume you mean the inconvenience of needing 3 dl DVDs to contain an HD movie without compressing it.. It is not all that impractical.

Sorry, but I totally disagree.

Needing to put a movie on more than one disc just doesn't cut it. If people would have tolerated that, there'd have been no need to create the Blu-Ray and HD DVD formats to begin with. The thing is, using standard DVDs to hold HD content just doesn't cut it, due to the limitations in how much time the thing will hold.

Again, we're discussing the possibility of a machine like the Philips and Magnavox machines this forum is for, but that can record in HD on the hard drive, and also produce optical discs that hold HD content, but in the same way the present machines do. Sorry, but only about an hour (or less) per disc doesn't fit the bill.

If it did, these recorders wouldn't be made with settings other than "HQ". Thing is, one hour per disc (with a movie stretched out across multiple discs) doesn't cut it, and people wouldn't tolerate it. If you would, that's "nice", but most people wouldn't. It's too "lumpy".
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post #12687 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by timtofly View Post
Well, TalkingRat just asked for dual tuner and HD encoding. He did not mention an optical drive. I was not trying to correct you, just adding facts in a fun way. VHS won the last war and BD won this one. However VHS and HD DVD were more open standards, and Beta.. / BD are more closed. HD DVD was just taking the DVD format to the next level IMO. I have a panasonic camera that will allow me to make HD recordings via AVHCD and I am burning it on a combo HD DVD player/DVD burner. However, it will not play on a BD player nor my HD DVD player. Thanks to the industry for allowing me so much that cannot even work together. I cannot even get a DVDR that will allow me to transfer my recordings to the hard drive and burn DVD's.

Go to any local Electronics store and tell me the percentage of blank BD, DVD, and SD cards there are. While SD cards are being driven by both Camera and Camcorder sales, they are also found in cell phones and MP3/Video players. I doubt you will ever see a BD disc of any form going to be made for these. Then you also have the mentality that everything can be had through the "cloud". That makes DVD or any form of BD recorders a niche group. The next generation are ripping cd's and or getting music and video from the internet; to transport around in players and phones and for added convenience extra storage via SD micro cards. Due to video piracy, Manufacturers have been relunctant to allow video to be transported via SD cards to current offerings of DVDR recorders. You can listen to music and look at pictures only. I think that if the industry had allowed video transfer, there would have been an even higher demand of SD cards.

In five years a 4 meg SD card has dropped from $100.00 to $10.00. While BD's can hold 8-12 times more, they have dropped less of a percentage, however they are in less demand than SD cards. If we had gotten BD recorders, that may have been a different story also. However SD cards are more versatile. They do have one flaw and that is electromagnetic fields. While not really a big issue, it is still there. You cannot ruin a DVD or BD in an electromagnetic field. Also like -RW they are rewritable, but I am sure that most people in this forum already are used to loosing data by accidently recording over a -RW before you moved the data you wanted off of it. If solid state drives take off and replace platter drives, I think that also will bring down the cost and increase the ability of SD cards. The irony of this is now we may have HD on SD instead of SD/HD on HDDVD.

So to answer your question about BD. I do not know. I do know that technology changes fast and since the industry did not push BD recorders, they may have caused them to have only a slight blure in history.
I don't really view us as disagreeing. It'd be a good thing if some format was created that'd work in more than one type of device. The cards, say, working in phones, cameras and even home recorders would be great. Able to record something at home and then watch it on your phone or even the viewing screen of your camera? Neat.

It'd really have to be something different from cards that are vulnerable to magnetics, tho'. Too easy to wreck. I wonder how thumb drives hold data? I've heard some of those "cheap" laptops meant for third world school kids were made without standard hard drives, essentially having internal thumb drives as their hard drives.

For a new media to replace optical discs, maybe something like the cards, but that works the way thumb drives do?

I'd also prefer the option still be there for a "thing" (card, disc, whatever) to be RW or R, so that you could choose to make the final copy permanent, with no chance ever that it'd be erased.

Sorry, everyone. I know this got WAY off topic.
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post #12688 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 12:13 PM
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For a new media to replace optical discs, maybe something like the cards, but that works the way thumb drives do?

I'd also prefer the option still be there for a "thing" (card, disc, whatever) to be RW or R, so that you could choose to make the final copy permanent, with no chance ever that it'd be erased.

Sorry, everyone. I know this got WAY off topic.
A Solid State Drive, SD, and thumb drive are all the same in that they are rewritable memory storage devices and all are to some degree susceptible to electromagnetic influences. The Standard SD has a plastic switch which "locks" so it cannot be recorded to. I do not think the micro SD does. Solid State drives will probably use either a network connection, or some form of SATA. Thumb drives would include anything USB, although USB also incorporates normal Hard Drives. SD's would have a card slot like the Panasonic DVDR's do.

Sorry to say this, but Permanent?????? - never.
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post #12689 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 12:29 PM
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Again, we're discussing the possibility of a machine like the Philips and Magnavox machines this forum is for, but that can record in HD on the hard drive, and also produce optical discs that hold HD content, but in the same way the present machines do. Sorry, but only about an hour (or less) per disc doesn't fit the bill.
Actually full HD is more than twice the size of SD. About 20 minutes of HD would fit on a DVD. AVHCD which seems to be the method of choice actually breaks down the video into seperate 4+ Gig files. Each file able to fit neatly on 1 DVD. With a 25 Gig BDdisk you could get 6 "20" minute segments or roughly 2+ hours.
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post #12690 of 27986 Old 01-07-2011, 02:03 PM
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This is how Funai is listed:

http://ces11.mapyourshow.com/3_0/exh...markcamefrom=y

Interesting.
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