Magnavox 557, 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 63 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1861 of 27974 Old 09-29-2008, 06:07 PM
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I do have a line amp in my attic and yes if i just let the cable just hang out of the back of the recorder I get a amazing signal quality
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post #1862 of 27974 Old 09-29-2008, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pscrzy View Post

I do have a line amp in my attic and yes if i just let the cable just hang out of the back of the recorder I get a amazing signal quality

Not sure what you're saying, but it sounds like a strong digital signal MAY be part or all of the problem?
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post #1863 of 27974 Old 09-29-2008, 06:14 PM
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I also switched the RF Coaxial cable in the back to the on that came with the unit, at first i was using my own cable.
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post #1864 of 27974 Old 09-29-2008, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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In case the "signal too strong" thing could be the culprit, here are two posts (among others) where Flamike ran into a similar situation (much more complex setup, tho), and he eventaully got some cheap attenuators that worked:

Flamike results of "coax-on-a-thread" test.

Flamike results with attenuators.

Note: Flamike was getting "interference" but "blue-screen" can also be a symptom of signal too strong (as well as too weak). From other forums, it seems the optimum, max and min. signal strengths are different depending on the QAM spec the provider is using, and even OTA signals can be too strong.
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post #1865 of 27974 Old 09-30-2008, 01:50 PM
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Has anybody used 16 GB USB flash drive on USB port? Just checking beforfe I buy a 16GB flash drive.

I want to put jpgs and play a slideshow on 3575. I have about 6 GB of photos. I did put those on DVD, but 3575 does not play jpgs from DVDs. It can play from CDs, but that will be too many CDs. 16 GB USB will make me future proof, i.e. to cope with increasing number of photos in future.
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post #1866 of 27974 Old 09-30-2008, 02:32 PM
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I went to SAMs today and they had about 30 of the Philips dvdr 3576. They all had pack dates of Feb 08. Does anybody know if there are any Feb 08 that have the Dtv-s 0x93?
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post #1867 of 27974 Old 09-30-2008, 05:05 PM
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Does anybody have a Feb 08 with the 0x93 or no?
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post #1868 of 27974 Old 09-30-2008, 05:33 PM
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I Believe most of the DVD recorders sold in the US in the past several years will record closed captions if they are present in the video. The issue very few people notice is that a software DVD player such as PowerDVD will not show these Closed captions unless it sees a flag that they are present. I have not seen any regularly used DVD authoring software that will automatically set this flag (you can use IFOEDIT to do it though). Also most of the commerical DVD authoring programs I have seen will strip out the Closed Captions from the MPEG2 video when you use them to make a DVD. By the way GUI for DVDauthor and DVD Shrink DO NOT strip the CC!

The Pioneer series of DVD recorders will capture closed captions with the video (its not mentioned in any of their manuals) but the finalized DVD will not show them in PowerDVD because the Pioneer software does not set the flag. All commercial DVD's I have seen set this flag so that PowerDVD will display them. Most commercial region 1 DVD's also have closed captions.

The interesting thing about the Philips Recorder is that it sets this closed caption flag and they will be visible if you play the DVD with PowerDVD (you have to turn it on in PowerDVD!).
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post #1869 of 27974 Old 09-30-2008, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stick128 View Post

I Believe most of the DVD recorders sold in the US in the past several years will record closed captions if they are present in the video. The issue very few people notice is that a software DVD player such as PowerDVD will not show these Closed captions unless it sees a flag that they are present. I have not seen any regularly used DVD authoring software that will automatically set this flag (you can use IFOEDIT to do it though). Also most of the commerical DVD authoring programs I have seen will strip out the Closed Captions from the MPEG2 video when you use them to make a DVD. By the way GUI for DVDauthor and DVD Shrink DO NOT strip the CC!

The Pioneer series of DVD recorders will capture closed captions with the video (its not mentioned in any of their manuals) but the finalized DVD will not show them in PowerDVD because the Pioneer software does not set the flag. All commercial DVD's I have seen set this flag so that PowerDVD will display them. Most commercial region 1 DVD's also have closed captions.

The interesting thing about the Philips Recorder is that it sets this closed caption flag and they will be visible if you play the DVD with PowerDVD (you have to turn it on in PowerDVD!).


Thanks Stick128


I eluded to this fact about the CC flag being recorded and read from Philips 3576 recordings made to DVD when playing back on Windows Media Player V 11...I guess my post of September 15th/08 got skimmed over in the thread.

Wajo...perhaps you could update your Tips area under CC recording and note that the Philips Does record the CC on digital ATSC broadcasts, it just wont display them when playing back on the Philips machine.

Here is a link to my previous post reporting essentially the same thing that Stick128 has just raised

Thanks All !!

See my post #1733 on pg 58 ....link to page below:
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...940657&page=58
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post #1870 of 27974 Old 09-30-2008, 10:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montward View Post

Thanks Stick128
I eluded to this fact about the CC flag being recorded and read from Philips 3576 recordings made to DVD when playing back on Windows Media Player V 11...I guess my post of September 15th/08 got skimmed over in the thread.

Wajo...perhaps you could update your Tips area under CC recording and note that the Philips Does record the CC on digital ATSC broadcasts, it just wont display them when playing back on the Philips machine.

I don't think Stick128 mentioned that he was seeing DTV CC?

Anything received as an interlaced signal having CC embedded will have its CC recorded by any DVDR since the CC are an integral part of the interlaced pic (in the VBI).

I can't really update that tip on CC cuz the 3575/3576 really doesn't record digital CC... the new Magnavox 2160 added that capability, however... it has an option for DTV CC on or off:

"DTV CC
Recording page 41
ON OFF
Set whether to record the DTV closed caption or not."

That setting is a new addition to the options in the 3575/3576 DTV CC setup menu. The 3575/3576 doesn't have such a setting, only one for setting and customizing a "Type" of DTV CC for display. A note explains that the DTV CC settings have no effect when recording (if viewing a live program with DTV CC set with a Service Type (only other option is OFF), it disappears immediately when you hit the REC button or a timer starts), per this note:

"Note
• Even if you set “DTV CC” to anything other than “OFF”, its effect will temporarily be canceled while recording."

At one time I had seen a short note that "This unit does not record digital CC" or similar but can't find the specific source now.
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post #1871 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I don't think Stick128 mentioned that he was seeing DTV CC?

Anything received as an interlaced signal having CC embedded will have its CC recorded by any DVDR since the CC are an integral part of the interlaced pic (in the VBI).

I can't really update that tip on CC cuz the 3575/3576 really doesn't record digital CC... the new Magnavox 2160 added that capability, however... it has an option for DTV CC on or off:

"DTV CC
Recording page 41
ON OFF
Set whether to record the DTV closed caption or not."

That setting is a new addition to the options in the 3575/3576 DTV CC setup menu. The 3575/3576 doesn't have such a setting, only one for setting and customizing a "Type" of DTV CC for display. A note explains that the DTV CC settings have no effect when recording (if viewing a live program with DTV CC set with a Service Type (only other option is OFF), it disappears immediately when you hit the REC button or a timer starts), per this note:

"Note
Even if you set DTV CC to anything other than OFF, its effect will temporarily be canceled while recording."

At one time I had seen a short note that "This unit does not record digital CC" or similar but can't find the specific source now.

Thanks Wajo, ...just so that I can get my head around this and to make sure I completely understand what you are saying........so, when recording from DTV on the Philips, when I play back the recorded DTV content on my computer through Windows Media Player and select CC to "on" and the CC begins to display during the playback, what Im really seeing is the CC signal/flag which is embedded in the interlaced picture (VBI) from the DTV recording I had made on the Philips ?

So, essentially, it's an analog CC signal/flag that I am seeing ? OR am I totally off base here ?
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post #1872 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pscrzy View Post

Does anybody have a Feb 08 with the 0x93 or no?

My 3575 pack date Feb has 0x90
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post #1873 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montward View Post

Thanks Wajo, ...just so that I can get my head around this and to make sure I completely understand what you are saying........so, when recording from DTV on the Philips, when I play back the recorded DTV content on my computer through Windows Media Player and select CC to "on" and the CC begins to display during the playback, what Im really seeing is the CC signal/flag which is embedded in the interlaced picture (VBI) from the DTV recording I had made on the Philips ?

So, essentially, it's an analog CC signal/flag that I am seeing ? OR am I totally off base here ?

I think you must be seeing an analog VBI CC, like I do here with my basic cable (analog) system.

My LCD TV has separate settings for analog and digital CC, and when I was playing with CC, I noticed my TV wouldn't display digital CC from a recording off one of my "digital" channels when I set digital CC on, but it would when I set analog CC on.

I remember having an "epiphany" and saying to myself, "Self, I bet I'm not getting a "digital" signal on my "digital" channels." And I had to agree with myself after I read this Laura Weinstein blog on cablcecos "cheating" subscribers by sending analog EVEN tho they had subscribed to a "digital cable pkg." So, if people who actually subscribe to a digital cable pkg could still be getting an analog signal, I certainly was getting only an analog signal cuz I wasn't subscribed to a so-called "digital" package.

The final nail in the digital CC coffin, when I "buried" digital CC for good, was when I read a Philips Q&A on the 3575/3576, which reads:

"Question
Why does the closed captions disappear when I start a recording?

Answer
This is most probably due to the recording of digital closed captions. Recording of digital closed captions is not supported on the set therefore, any recording of digital closed captions will cause it to disappear. When the recording is stopped, the closed captions appear again."

This set only supports the recording of analog closed captions so do ensure when you want to record closed captions, that the channel is not broadcasting digital closed captions."

That answer is here, under the last question in the "Recording" section.

THE WHOLE CC AREA IS A BALL OF POISONOUS SNAKES!
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post #1874 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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My 3575's Can Remove Macroblocking!

I've got two of my 3575's passing my basic cable TV coax signal thru its amplified coax circuit to two LCD TVs.

Last night, I was watching House on Fox directly on one LCD and recording at the same time on my 3575. The pic on the TV was macroblocking quite badly, so I switched to the 3575 input to see if it was picking up that macroblocking.

NO MACROBLOCKING AT ALL!

To confirm, I went to our bedroom and watched the same show thru my other 3575 to another LCD. Macroblocking badly on direct TV view, but NO MACROBLOCKING on the 3575's input.

See this post for info on the 357x/2160's outstanding deblocking capabilities that explains this happy result!

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post #1875 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 10:54 AM
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It seems that my 3576 is having trouble keeping the time. Here's what happened.

Bought the 3576 and told it to auto set time. Overnight the clock was set
Immediately, I noticed the clock was always about 20-30 behind so I manually set the clock to the correct time, but left the auto-set turned on.
The very next morning, the clock was off again

What should I do? Do I have a defective unit? I have MANY titles on the unit and I'd really hate to exchange it at this point given there's no backup option.

Is this a common problem?
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post #1876 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The auto-clock depends on an analog time signal from a PBS station at noon and midnight... it "wakes up" briefly to check for that signal at 11:59 twice a day (if off, of course).

IF you are connected in a way that you're not getting an analog signal on the ANT IN coax (or you don't have it connected by coax), like with satellite service instead of an antenna or cable, the unit can't get the required time signal. Also, if the unit is NOT 1st in line on the coax, any upstream component could be blocking the time signal.

IF you can't get a regular analog time signal, you'll have to set the clock manually (1st option in Clock menu) and turn OFF the next two options, Auto Clock and DST. The clocks in my three 3575's run pretty accurately, just going a little ahead over a relatively long time period.

It appears in your system you can't even use the MANUAL option in the auto-clock menu, where you SET the PBS station channel so the unit doesn't have to search for it twice a day, cuz you don't seem to be getting any time signal the way you're set up or the PBS station(s) you have in your channel lineup?
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post #1877 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 11:13 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply.

I can get the signal because it sets the time automatically. Unfortunately it's 30 mins too slow.

I'll set it to manual but I'd really like the auto set feature to work. I think the unit is connected to my TV via coax. I prefer it this way since I get HD channels via QAM to my TV.
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post #1878 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robodude2 View Post

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can get the signal because it sets the time automatically. Unfortunately it's 30 mins too slow.

I'll set it to manual but I'd really like the auto set feature to work. I think the unit is connected to my TV via coax. I prefer it this way since I get HD channels via QAM to my TV.

It's not important how the 3576 is connected to the TV, it's how the 3576 is connected to the incoming cable, and what type of service do you use, Sat, cable, antenna? AND, is the 3576 1st on that incoming cable, or are there any other components in front of the 3576 on that incoming cable.
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post #1879 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 11:22 AM
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wajo Re: macroblocking

Wajo, in my case I feel the 3575 is making my signal better, not worse.
I am OTA only, no cable, and have a Panny 75u plasma ('07 model). What I see is macroblocking on weak channels when using the TV's tuner. I know they are weak because my TV has a signal strength indicator. There are 1 or 2 non-big-network stations (480i but digital broadcasts) that seem to go flaky on me. When I see a signal level 40-60% with some MB, I can turn on my 3575 and watch thru its tuner and the MB is usually gone or greatly reduced. So for me, this indicates the 3575 tuner is more sensitive than the TV's tuner and does better with weak signals.

Now that I've said that, it occurs to me that it could be the amplified passthru is upping the noise from the low signals and actually causing the MBing farther downstream. I have no easy way to do a "side-by-side" by putting the 3575 in parallel with the TV instead of in series to eliminate the 3575 as the root cause.
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post #1880 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Chris, thanks for the info. Apparently, your incoming signal is not "too strong" so the 3575 is amping ut up just enough to create a better digital pic. At least two other people have reported their pic is ~20% better thru the 3575/3576's amp'd passthru... one thru the line inputs.

I haven't heard any regular complaints of macroblocking (MB), but it did occur to me that some of the "blue-screen" problems *could* have been caused by a too-strong digital signal?

I think, and hope, digital signal problems will become less as the stations begin to go all-digital, but then I've just started reading some expert's new concern with FCC rules for something else exotic in the digital signal that can cause "tuner overload" in today's digital tuners... too exotic for me but suggests there might be OTHER new problems coming... arghhh!?

EDIT: Is your 3575 connected directly to the TV or, like me, thru another component (my Pio 640)?
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post #1881 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 11:45 AM
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Has anyone tried to replace a hard drive in the new Philips 3576 yet?

I'm wondering if any special boot CD's, etc. are required to replace the hard drive. I recall reading somewhere that the older 3455 required the firmware CD downloaded from the Philips website to initialize / format the new drive before it would work.

I had a look at the Philips 3576 website but found no useful information or any downloadable software. I'd like to purchase the machine knowing that in the future I could replace the hard drive myself when it fails and we all know it will fail. I don't want to send the unit in for service after the warranty expires.

Please let me know if you happen to have any useful links to related information.
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post #1882 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Is your 3575 connected directly to the TV or, like me, thru another component (my Pio 620)?

Ummm...I know I have an VCR connected either before or after the 3575, I think after, but it's never on. My analog OTA is crappy - which I why I like digital!
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post #1883 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by chrisb0 View Post

Ummm...I know I have an VCR connected either before or after the 3575, I think after, but it's never on. My analog OTA is crappy - which I why I like digital!

I'd remove any components after the 3575 and see whasup!?

I haven't removed my Pio 640 just to see whasup, but I've got to wait for some MB on the TV. If you see "persistent" interference, you might be able to see whasup easier than I can for my MB?
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post #1884 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I meant to post this here but mistakenly posted in the 3575 thread, so I apologize for this double-post.

To anyone seeing macroblocking or other pic artifacts:

I've got my 3575 passing my basic cable TV coax signal thru its amplified coax circuit and on to an inline Pioneer DVR-640H, then on to my LCD TV.

Last night, I was watching House on Fox thru my LCD TV and recording at the same time on my 3575. The pic on the TV was macroblocking, so I switched to the 3575 to see if it was picking up that macroblocking (intending to switch channels if so).

When I switched to the 3575 input on the TV, NO MACROBLOCKING AT ALL!

To confirm, I went to our bedroom and watched the same show thru that 3575 to another, same-brand LCD TV. NO MACROBLOCKING either thru the 3575 or on the TV itself.

SO... have to assume sending an amplified digital-channel signal thru some other device on its way to the TV MAY be a problem in SOME systems.

I emphasized SOME cuz haven't read of this macroblocking from others so far. If anyone sees macroblocking on their TV that's fed with the 3575/3576/2160, check the pic their DVDR is receiving before it hits the TV. If pic is perfect, like mine, check inline components and test w/o any other components between this DVDR and the TV, LIKE I'M GOING TO DO next time I see macroblocking... unfortunatley, gotta wait for it to appear when watching the TV directly, both with this DVDR on and again with it off... not sure it matters since the amplification occurs whether this DVDR is on or off... it was ON and recording at the time I saw my macroblocking.

In what I've read lately on signal strength, digital tuners are sensititve to over-strength signals... can go blue-screen, tile, pixilate, etc..., so it appears my Vizio LCD tuner might be macroblocking from a signal that's too strong, OR my Pio 640 inline after the 3575 is doing something to that signal???

More info on signal strength here, under "Important Note"

Stay tuned?

when I was trying to find the correct amount of attenuation I saw pixilation by weakening a channel too much and by too strong an ota signal, in both cases the pixilation looked the same. I could only tell by what I was doing with the attenuators. My problem was: I'm close to Tampa the signals are strong but not equal among the channels
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post #1885 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robodude2 View Post

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can get the signal because it sets the time automatically. Unfortunately it's 30 mins too slow.

I'll set it to manual but I'd really like the auto set feature to work. I think the unit is connected to my TV via coax. I prefer it this way since I get HD channels via QAM to my TV.

Unless there's a firmware fix the auto clock set feature
will be a thing of the past as of February 17, since these
machines get their time set info from analog PBS stations,
which will cease to exist on that date...
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post #1886 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flamike View Post

when I was trying to find the correct amount of attenuation I saw pixilation by weakening a channel too much and by too strong an ota signal, in both cases the pixilation looked the same. I could only tell by what I was doing with the attenuators. My problem was: I'm close to Tampa the signals are strong but not equal among the channels

We can only wait for 2009 and see if digital station power gets more "stabilized" than now while still in the analog age.
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post #1887 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robodude2 View Post

Thanks for the quick reply.

I can get the signal because it sets the time automatically. Unfortunately it's 30 mins too slow.

I'll set it to manual but I'd really like the auto set feature to work. I think the unit is connected to my TV via coax. I prefer it this way since I get HD channels via QAM to my TV.

It sounds like there is a problem with the time being transmitted by your local PBS station. You should give the station a call and ask the broadcast engineering organization to investigate.

Based on the times that the VCR and Philips recorder display, my local PBS station seems to be off by a few seconds, compared to a digital clock locked to WWV. That leads me to believe that their signal is not locked to the WWV standard, and uses some other reference that is not as accurate, or is manually set.
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post #1888 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 04:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formula 1 View Post

Has anyone tried to replace a hard drive in the new Philips 3576 yet?

I'm wondering if any special boot CD's, etc. are required to replace the hard drive. I recall reading somewhere that the older 3455 required the firmware CD downloaded from the Philips website to initialize / format the new drive before it would work.

I had a look at the Philips 3576 website but found no useful information or any downloadable software. I'd like to purchase the machine knowing that in the future I could replace the hard drive myself when it fails and we all know it will fail. I don't want to send the unit in for service after the warranty expires.

Please let me know if you happen to have any useful links to related information.

Here's the help file on the HDD, bottom of page, with some info that might be useful.

I know one Member, burntpixl, bought a 250GB version of the 3575/3576 HDD and was intending to try a swap, but haven't heard from him in awhile.
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post #1889 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I think you must be seeing an analog VBI CC, like I do here with my basic cable (analog) system.

My LCD TV has separate settings for analog and digital CC, and when I was playing with CC, I noticed my TV wouldn't display digital CC from a recording off one of my "digital" channels when I set digital CC on, but it would when I set analog CC on.

I remember having an "epiphany" and saying to myself, "Self, I bet I'm not getting a "digital" signal on my "digital" channels." And I had to agree with myself after I read this Laura Weinstein blog on cablcecos "cheating" subscribers by sending analog EVEN tho they had subscribed to a "digital cable pkg." So, if people who actually subscribe to a digital cable pkg could still be getting an analog signal, I certainly was getting only an analog signal cuz I wasn't subscribed to a so-called "digital" package.

The final nail in the digital CC coffin, when I "buried" digital CC for good, was when I read a Philips Q&A on the 3575/3576, which reads:

"Question
Why does the closed captions disappear when I start a recording?

Answer
This is most probably due to the recording of digital closed captions. Recording of digital closed captions is not supported on the set therefore, any recording of digital closed captions will cause it to disappear. When the recording is stopped, the closed captions appear again."

This set only supports the recording of analog closed captions so do ensure when you want to record closed captions, that the channel is not broadcasting digital closed captions."

That answer is here, under the last question in the "Recording" section.

THE WHOLE CC AREA IS A BALL OF POISONOUS SNAKES!

Thanks Wajo......appreciate the clarification you have provided of analog vs digital CC recording.... I knew you would know

This forum thread is such a great reference tool for so many . Again, awesome work !!
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post #1890 of 27974 Old 10-01-2008, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by flamike View Post

when I was trying to find the correct amount of attenuation I saw pixilation by weakening a channel too much and by too strong an ota signal, in both cases the pixilation looked the same. I could only tell by what I was doing with the attenuators. My problem was: I'm close to Tampa the signals are strong but not equal among the channels

You are OTA. Have you ever considered you may have FM interference from a strong FM station which can interfere select channels. Take a visit to fmfool.com and find out what FM signals are strong and close by. You may actually need an FM trap. If you are over-driving the tuner the signal meter should be pegged at 100%. Are you seeing that.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

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