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post #1 of 17 Old 11-21-2017, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Best Wireless setup under 1000 for b7 oled

Hi All,

I'm getting the b765 oled for black friday and I'd like to get the best wireless audio surround sound setup for under a 1000. I'd like the system to support Dolby atmos. I'm opting for wireless because im in a small apartment. I'd like to stay away from Bose because its over priced for what you get. Any better wireless packages out there? Please help, thanks
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post #2 of 17 Old 11-22-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Beastmode101 View Post
Hi All,

I'm getting the b765 oled for black friday and I'd like to get the best wireless audio surround sound setup for under a 1000. I'd like the system to support Dolby atmos. I'm opting for wireless because im in a small apartment. I'd like to stay away from Bose because its over priced for what you get. Any better wireless packages out there? Please help, thanks
http://www.enclaveaudio.com/
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post #3 of 17 Old 11-23-2017, 04:22 PM
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ALL WIRELESS Surround Systems are inherently MORE Expensive than hard-wired Systems due to the addition of Wireless Receiver for each Speaker and use of individual Speaker Amplifiers, rather than a more cost-effective COMMON Multi-Channel Amplifier. Hence many AVR's ONLY use Wireless for the Rear/Surround Speakers.

This summary concentrates on ALL WIRELESS products, where I have intentionally AVOIDED mentioning COMPRESSED Bluetooth products, which are lower fidelity and limited range:
https://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-g...over-bluetooth
https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-kno...etooth-3134591
http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/how-...io-at-its-best

So Far, Bluetooth version 5 is mostly a SMART-PHONE broadcasting alternative. Note that Class 1 devices can operate up to 100-m (330-ft) if no walls in the way, Class 2 (the most common kind) operate up to 10-m (33-ft), and Class 3 don't go much beyond 1-m (3.3-ft).:
https://www.whathifi.com/advice/blue...u-need-to-know
https://www.bluetooth.com/specificat...ion/bluetooth5
Sooooo, if you are contemplating using BLUETOOTH, do extensive research to make sure that both TRANSMITTER are capable of using the SAME Bluetooth Version....and whether there are any lossy TRANS-CODING operations required...and whether you want to live with COMPRESSED Audio or want to chose OTHER Alternatives that are capable of LOSS-LESS AUDIO. And I would advise you consider whether the Bluetooth Device you chose supports not just the highest Fidelity Compressed mode(s)....but also support the lower Fidelity, minimum DELAY mode(s) as well in case you have unsolvable LIPSYNC Issues.

============================================
WISA WIRELESS REMOTING STANDARD:

Some of the fol. Systems use WISA (Wireless Speaker Audio Association), an INDUSTRY DIGITAL AUDIO WIRELESS STANDARD with Interoperability Test & Certification Program, which offers the BEST range of choices and Technology (Loss-Less, NOT Compressed, up to 24-bit/196ksps Super-Hi-Rez Audio and is specifically designed for DD7.1 and ATMOS 5.1.2 (but not yet 5.1.4):
http://www.wisaassociation.org
https://www.facebook.com/wisaassociation
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...theater-update

WISA Certified Products Summary: [NOT up to date]
https://www.wisaassociation.org/certified-devices

Way back in 2014, WISA claimed that their Wireless Format could support ATMOS...and invited mfrs to contact them:
http://wisaassociation.tumblr.com/po...ions-for-wisas

Jan 2018 blurb found in fol. release from Axiim sez that WISA Spec supports ATMOS, but limited to 8-Channels (i.e. 5.1.2 with RCA Coax for SW):
https://www.techhive.com/article/324...ss-system.html

Klipsch sorta sez that ATMOS may be supported in their future WISA v.2.0 implementation:
http://www.klipsch.com/blog/faq-klip...speaker-system

2019 CES: LG announces WISA capable LED/OLED TV's....some ATMOS/DTS-X capable....programed to use Summit Wireless's $50 USB WISA Dongle. Klipsch announces less expensive WISA Speaker System...but doesn't claim it's ATMOS capable. Harmon-Kardon shows WISA capable Citation speaker line and WISA DD5.1 System Controller and also Speaker BAR. Summit Wireless also enables numerous other Powered Speaker Systems:
https://www.techhive.com/article/3331246/ces/wisa-plans-to-make-some-noise-at-ces.html
https://www.avsforum.com/klipsch-rel...-wisa-speakers [new Klipsch WISA Speakers]
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...t-Configurable
https://www.harmankardon.com/citatio...itation-series [H-K WISA ADAPT System Controller]
https://www.harmankardon.com/citation-series [H-K WISA Speakers & Sound BAR]
http://www.summitwireless.com [USB Dongle and Development Boards]
https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...al-Launch-WiSA [Add'l Powered Speakers enabled by Summit WISA]

============================================
WISA COMPARED to OTHER FORMATS:

WISA compared to competing WIRELESS "standards"....and limited availability Proprietary Technologies:
https://www.lifewire.com/best-wirele...or-you-3134931
https://www.cnet.com/news/bluetooth-...dio-difference

You also might want to investigate the Proprietary SONUS, Yamaha MUSICCAST, and Denon/Marantz HEOS/H2 Wireless offerings (Marantz now using WISA):
https://www.digitaltrends.com/music/...s-denon-heos/3 [SONOS vs Denon/Marantz HEOS/HD2]
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AEMGGU2 [SONUS SoundBar ($600 at Amazon, NO SW, NO Surrounds, Growth to DD5.1)

Also, Blackfire's FLARECAST (aka FIRECONNECT???) and RED technologies are now available in some Harman Kardon (incl. Omni Speakers???), Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra AVR's and Speakers....check carefully to see which products are truly Interoperable...their specs don't always say which WiFi protocol they are using:
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-i...ire-red-465037 [Incl 7.1-Channels]
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-i...ackfire-417102
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-i...ire-red-465037
https://www.whathifi.com/news/onkyo-...-room-platform
http://www.eu.onkyo.com/en/articles/onkyo-rolls-out-firmware-update-enabling-fireconnect-wireless-multi-room-audio-distribution-138192.html [2006+ Onkyo Firmware Update sez FIRECONNECT, new equipment sez FLARECAST]


FYI: Apple AirPlay uses a LOSS-LESS format via your existing Wi-Fi Network (incl. Repeaters) and will have whatever range that network provides:
https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/usa/e...play-bluetooth



============================================
WIRELESS AUDIO EXTENDERS:

Also note that there are TWO KINDS of Stand-Alone Wireless Audio Extenders that can be used with EXISTING AVRs/Soundbars and either EXISTING Speakers....or in the second case, with POWERED SPEAKERS [or Existing Speaker with an added Amp):

1) There is a class of products that connect to AVR's RCA Output Jacks such as L/R Surround [If NOT available then can connect to SPEAKER OUTPUTS using Rocketfish], sending signals Wirelessly to a Remote Receiver which includes a BUILT-IN Power Amplifier, such as for driving the L/R Surround Speakers. If your room is arranged so that a Single Receiver can drive BOTH Speakers then you only need ONE unit.....and TWO if you need separate Left and Right Channel Amplifiers, such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ampl.../dp/B01ARM0VE0 [80Wx2, 2.4 GHz WiFi, Amphony]
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Digi.../dp/B01ISJLMME [30Wx2, 2.4 GHz WiFi, Rocketfish]
https://www.amazon.com/Rocketfish-Un.../dp/B000VEP3XO[Rocketfish]
https://files.bbystatic.com/VuO9Waw6...Final%2Blr.pdf [Rocketfish Manual]

2) There is also a class of products that simply provide Wireless Extension of the RCA Audio Output Jacks, intended for use with POWERED Speakers, incl. Sub-Woofers (or existing Speaker with an external Amp). Outlaw Audio AWS-4 is one of the popular 2.4 GHz WiFI units where the Transmitter Boxes (3 or 4 at $60 ea) connect to AVR's RCA Audio Output Jacks (3 Transmitter Boxes are needed for L/R, LS/RS & CTR/SW....and one more if DD7.2). Unless Speakers are arranged so that L/R (WHITE/RED) Audio cords can be fed from a common Receiver Box, then each POWERED SPEAKER would require a Receiver Box (up to 6 for DD5.1 and up to 7 for DD7.1 at $60 ea) [SW is presumably direct connect]. [NOT a very cost effective solution....but are well suited for Sub-Woofer Signal Extension]
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/...SABEgI6PfD_BwE [2.4 GHz WiFi]
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...azM2ZQeAQ1w691

Here is essentially the same capability from other mfrs....note that the first two operate in the less crowded 5.8 GHz WiFi Band....note that AUDIO capability is usually included as part of a VIDEO Remoting Capability that you might not need to use:
https://www.amazon.com/SainSonic-SS-.../dp/B00D775SJQ [5.8 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Pat-.../dp/B00W4OHYLS [5.8 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Tran...ofers-Surround [2.4 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/HopCentury-Wi.../dp/B06XJL9646 [2.4 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYZJ0LW [2.4 GHz WiFi]

============================================
PROPRIETARY ATMOS CAPABLE ALL WIRELESS SYSTEM:

UK's DAMSON Wireless Audio System ($650 at Amazon) is the FIRST to support ATMOS [5.1.2], using proprietary JetStreamNet format in [less crowded] 5 GHz Wi-Fi Band...but I'm underwhelmed by their very smallish speakers...and since L/R/LH/RH Speakers are ALL built into the SoundBar, I wouldn't expect very much Stereo Separation or ATMOS effect from the System unless you were VERY close to it, such as in a Desktop Computer Surround Sound set-up. However, Damson counters this by adding some SIGNAL PROCESSING to Enhance the Stereo Separation and ATMOS Effects....oh man, I've heard THOSE kind of Enhancements before, thanks, but no thanks:
https://www.cepro.com/article/damson...ultiroom_audio
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Home.../dp/B0785WH79D
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...s-sound-system [8-Hrs when on BATTERY]
https://www.techradar.com/reviews/damson-s-series
https://thedigitallifestyle.com/w/in...-speakers-ears
https://www.damsonglobal.com/media/w...e-S-Series.pdf [Manual]

============================================
WISA CAPABLE ALL WIRELESS SYSTEMS (NOT ATMOS):

Cinehome Enclave HD5.1 ($800 on Amazon incl 5-Speakers+SW) does NOT support ATMOS, nor does it have Future Growth capability to add more Wireless Speakers for either DD-7.1 [2 more Speakers] nor ATMOS-5.1.2 [2 more] or ATMOS-5.1.4 [4 more]. Also note that ALL of the speakers are a TOO SMALL compromise in order to meet your under $1000 price point.

Marantz ALL-WIRELESS Surround DD7.1 HD-Control Center ($400 on Amazon with NO Speakers) does not [YET] support ATMOS, although it does support DD-7.1 via [Loss-Less, Hi-Rez] WISA Wireless Technologies. So it's an affordable STARTING POINT that can be used with ANY WISA compliant Wireless Speakers....growing into a fully capable DD7.1 system as your budget allows:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RPH...ter.html?cc=07
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RP-Hu.../dp/B01A03KTL6
https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3fb...-Sheet-V03.pdf
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...d9g08Xjg-LOkrH [RP=HUB1 Manual. Bluetooth is INPUT Only from Cellphone]

Least expensive Marantz ALL-WIRELESS DD2.1 [Growth to 7.1] STEREO SYSTEM ($600 on Amazon with 2-MAIN-Speakers+10-in SW) also does NOT support ATMOS, leaving $400 to buy a pair of SMALL LR/RR plus a Center Speaker [any WISA Compatible] for DD5.1...and eventually add another pair of WISA SMALL Speakers (Dipole or Bipolar) for 7.1:
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Refer.../dp/B01BKYZ798

More expensive Marantz ALL-WIRELESS Reference Premiere HD Wireless 3.1/5.1/7.1 Surround Systems require additional L/C/R and Surround Speakers (but does NOT support ATMOS):
https://www.klipsch.com/products/reference-premiere-hd-wireless

Axiim ALL-WIRELESS DD7.1 Surround Media Center Q-UHD-9100MC ($799 Preorder with NO Speakers) also does NOT support ATMOS:
https://axiim.com/products/q-uhd-wir...r-q-uhd-9100mc
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/11/prweb14915449.htm
https://www.lifewire.com/axiim-wirel...system-1847028
https://missingremote.com/review/fir...theater-system [FYI: Marantz Controller or System is much lower cost.]
https://axiim.com
OTOH: Axiim WISA Speakers are already available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Axiim-XM-4211.../dp/B01DOU7VOK
https://www.amazon.com/Axiim-XM-4111.../dp/B01DOV292S
https://www.amazon.com/Axiim-XM-101S.../dp/B01DOUHPMS

Fol. Sharp ALL WIRELESS System Controller includes 3 HDMI Inputs and a built-in BD-Player and WISA Wireless 5.1 Transmitter....unfortunately it has a list price of about $5000:
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...-player-review

FYI: Microsoft just joined WISA,....so....future X-Boxes may support this capability (and maybe current X-Boxes???).
https://www.cepro.com/article/xbox_w...surround_sound

The HARMAN Group also just joined WISA, which includes AKG®, Harman Kardon®, Infinity®, JBL®, Lexicon®, Mark Levinson® and Revel®....so it's catching on BIGLY:
http://www.wisaassociation.org/Docum..._PR_HARMAN.pdf

Four more WISA members, incl., US GoldenEars (popular for the Hearing Challenged) and 3 Euro Hi-Fi Mfrs:
https://www.dealerscope.com/article/...t-launches/all

I also ran across a report that LG makes a USB Dongle that supports up to DD7.1 WISA, obviously intended for PC's....but their Spec Sheet also says it could be connected to a (suitably modified) AVR [interesting info, but that's all I know....]:
http://www.summitwireless.com/summit-usbtx.html

===============================================
PURCHASE STRATEGY:

If you truly want to end up with a DD7.1 or ATMOS-5.1.2 System.....esp. if you care about Speaker QUALITY, you might want to consider buying JUST an ATMOS Capable Wireless CONTROLLER (aka AVR) now [or SoundBar with L/R/C Speakers built in + maybe a QUALITY Sub-Woofer] and then SIMPLY ADD additional Surround/Height Speakers in incremental PAIRS at later date(s), perhaps using a separate Wireless Extender.

IF we assume say $300-$400 for an ALL-WIRELESS HD-Control Center [DD7.1 + NOT ATMOS] and say $300-400 for a [Mediocre] Sub-Woofer, that only leaves $300-$400 in your Budget for Multiple Speakers...which is $60-$80 per Speaker AVERAGE for DD5.1 (L/R/C/LS/RS)....and only $42-$57 per Speaker AVERAGE for DD7.1. Same argument holds for an ATMOS + Wireless Capable AVR (also about $400)....you will have to either give up on ATMOS....or significantly increase your Budget (perhaps over a period of time to GROW the system in to what you WANT it to eventually become.)

===============================================
Another LOWER COST ALTERNATIVE is to look at SOUNDBARS that employ Sophisticated SIGNAL PROCESSING so that an ARRAY of Emitters in the Soundbar (plus external Sub-Woofer) SYNTHESIZES a Sound Field that is SUPPOSED to mimic a REAL Surround (MAY include ATMOS) Sound Field. How WELL they do this is is up to the viewer's opinion....and is usually more effective for Gimmicky Game and Movie Soundtracks, rather than REAL Music Reproduction. Best is likely from YAMAHA, such as the following [S-W IS EXTRA]. Other mfr's are significantly LESS....but also likely not as effective...suggest you do your OWN research:
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YSP-56.../dp/B016B44AP4 [$1300 on Amazon, DD7.1 and ATMOS-7.1.2]
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Last edited by holl_ands; 03-28-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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post #4 of 17 Old 11-25-2017, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your in depth response halls. Sounds like all the wireless options won't support Dolby atoms. I've decided to go with a wired setup. For under 1200 what's the best receiver and speakers I should go for. Kilpsch? Energy? Denon? Thanks!
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post #5 of 17 Old 11-25-2017, 09:14 AM
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I had already done a lot of ALL WIRELESS & WIRELESS SPEAKER research for my son's [hopefully water resistant] Patio System....but I have NOT had the NEED to listen to literally THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of Speakers (and look at a LOT more AVR specs/manuals)....so I do NOT have any specific recommendations for you.

Last edited by holl_ands; 11-25-2017 at 09:29 AM.
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-08-2018, 07:46 PM
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So it doesn't appear much has changed. No single wireless WISA solution for Dolby Atmos
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-09-2018, 09:58 AM
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I doubt that it ever will be. Wireless, including WiSA, requires an active speaker, which means an electrical power source. So basically, if some kind of in-ceiling WiSA Atmos speaker actually came on the market, it would require a licensed electrician to hard-wire it to service, not to mention getting service to the speaker location. And the built-in amplifier and wireless receiver would have to be built to withstand temperature extremes, assuming an attic installation. $$$$$! Don’t see much of a market for this...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post
I doubt that it ever will be. Wireless, including WiSA, requires an active speaker, which means an electrical power source. So basically, if some kind of in-ceiling WiSA Atmos speaker actually came on the market, it would require a licensed electrician to hard-wire it to service, not to mention getting service to the speaker location. And the built-in amplifier and wireless receiver would have to be built to withstand temperature extremes, assuming an attic installation. $$$$$! Don’t see much of a market for this...

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
I have outlets at the right locations. I can plug in speakers.
I just need a WISA solution that supports Atmos and pass through for Dolby Vision.
Axiim said they are working on it but 2019 at the earliest.
Damson speakers are just not powerful enough for my 14x19 room.
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Judging from following Ryan Baker’s posts on this thread, Axiim is long on promises and short on delivery.

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post #10 of 17 Old 09-09-2018, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
ALL WIRELESS Surround Systems are inherently MORE Expensive than hard-wired Systems due to the addition of Wireless Receiver for each Speaker and use of individual Speaker Amplifiers, rather than a more cost-effective COMMON Multi-Channel Amplifier. Hence many AVR's ONLY use Wireless for the Rear/Surround Speakers.

This summary concentrates on ALL WIRELESS products, where I have intentionally AVOIDED mentioning COMPRESSED Bluetooth products, which are lower fidelity and limited range:
https://www.cnet.com/news/can-aptx-g...over-bluetooth
https://www.lifewire.com/what-to-kno...etooth-3134591
http://www.sereneaudio.com/blog/how-...io-at-its-best

So Far, Bluetooth version 5 is mostly a SMART-PHONE broadcasting alternative:
https://www.whathifi.com/advice/blue...u-need-to-know
https://www.bluetooth.com/specificat...ion/bluetooth5
Sooooo, if you are contemplating using BLUETOOTH, do extensive research to make sure that both TRANSMITTER are capable of using the SAME Bluetooth Version....and whether there are any lossy TRANS-CODING operations required...and whether you want to live with COMPRESSED Audio or want to chose OTHER Alternatives that are capable of LOSS-LESS AUDIO.

============================================
WISA WIRELESS REMOTING STANDARD:

Some of the fol. Systems use WISA (Wireless Speaker Audio Association), an INDUSTRY DIGITAL AUDIO WIRELESS STANDARD with Interoperability Test & Certification Program, which offers the BEST range of choices and Technology (Loss-Less, NOT Compressed, up to 24-bit/196ksps Super-Hi-Rez Audio and is specifically designed for DD7.1 and ATMOS 5.1.2 (but not yet 5.1.4):
http://www.wisaassociation.org
https://www.facebook.com/wisaassociation
https://www.soundandvision.com/conte...theater-update

Way back in 2014, WISA claimed that their Wireless Format could support ATMOS...and invited mfrs to contact them:
http://wisaassociation.tumblr.com/po...ions-for-wisas

Jan 2018 blurb found in fol. release from Axiim sez that WISA Spec supports ATMOS, but limited to 8-Channels (i.e. 5.1.2 with RCA Coax for SW):
https://www.techhive.com/article/324...ss-system.html

Klipsch sorta sez that ATMOS may be supported in their future WISA v.2.0 implementation:
http://www.klipsch.com/blog/faq-klip...speaker-system

============================================
WISA COMPARED to OTHER FORMATS:

WISA compared to competing WIRELESS "standards"....and limited availability Proprietary Technologies:
https://www.lifewire.com/best-wirele...or-you-3134931
https://www.cnet.com/news/bluetooth-...dio-difference

You also might want to investigate the Proprietary SONUS, Yamaha MUSICCAST, and Denon/Marantz HEOS/H2 Wireless offerings (Marantz now using WISA):
https://www.digitaltrends.com/music/...s-denon-heos/3 [SONOS vs Denon/Marantz HEOS/HD2]
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AEMGGU2 [SONUS SoundBar ($600 at Amazon, NO SW, NO Surrounds, Growth to DD5.1)

Also, Blackfire's FLARECAST (aka FIRECONNECT???) and RED technologies are now available in some Harman Kardon (incl. Omni Speakers???), Onkyo, Pioneer, and Integra AVR's and Speakers....check carefully to see which products are truly Interoperable...their specs don't always say which WiFi protocol they are using:
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-i...ire-red-465037 [Incl 7.1-Channels]
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-i...ackfire-417102
http://www.avhub.com.au/news/sound-i...ire-red-465037
https://www.whathifi.com/news/onkyo-...-room-platform
http://www.eu.onkyo.com/en/articles/onkyo-rolls-out-firmware-update-enabling-fireconnect-wireless-multi-room-audio-distribution-138192.html [2006+ Onkyl Firmware Update sez FIRECONNECT, new equipment sez FLARECAST]

============================================
WIRELESS AUDIO EXTENDERS:

Also note that there are TWO KINDS of Stand-Alone Wireless Audio Extenders that can be used with EXISTING AVRs/Soundbars and either EXISTING Speakers....or in the second case, with POWERED SPEAKERS [or Existing Speaker with an added Amp):

1) There is a class of products that connect to AVR's RCA Output Jacks such as L/R Surround [If NOT available then can connect to SPEAKER OUTPUTS using Rocketfish], sending signals Wirelessly to a Remote Receiver which includes a built-in Power Amplifier, such as for driving the L/R Surround Speakers. If your room is arranged so that a Single Receiver can drive BOTH Speakers then you only need ONE unit.....and TWO if you need separate Left and Right Channel Amplifiers, such as:
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Ampl.../dp/B01ARM0VE0 [80Wx2, 2.4 GHz WiFi, Amphony]
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Digi.../dp/B01ISJLMME [30Wx2, 2.4 GHz WiFi, Rocketfish]
https://www.amazon.com/Rocketfish-Un.../dp/B000VEP3XO[Rocketfish]
https://files.bbystatic.com/VuO9Waw6...Final%2Blr.pdf [Rocketfish Manual]

2) There is also a class of products that simply provide Wireless Extension of the RCA Audio Output Jacks, intended for use with POWERED Speakers (or existing Speaker with an addition Amp). Outlaw Audio AWS-4 is one of the popular 2.4 GHz WiFI units where the Transmitter Boxes (3 or 4 at $60 ea) connect to AVR's RCA Audio Output Jacks (3 Transmitter Boxes are needed for L/R, LS/RS & CTR/SW....and one more if DD7.2). Unless Speakers are arranged so that L/R (WHITE/RED) Audio cords can be fed from a common Receiver Box, then each POWERED SPEAKER would require a Receiver Box (up to 6 for DD5.1 and up to 7 for DD7.1 at $60 ea) [SW is presumably direct connect]. [NOT a very cost effective solution....but are well suited for Sub-Woofer Signal Extension]
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/...SABEgI6PfD_BwE [2.4 GHz WiFi]
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...azM2ZQeAQ1w691

Here is essentially the same capability from other mfrs....note that the first two operate in the less crowded 5.8 GHz WiFi Band:
https://www.amazon.com/SainSonic-SS-.../dp/B00D775SJQ [5.8 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Pat-.../dp/B00W4OHYLS [5.8 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Tran...ofers-Surround [2.4 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/HopCentury-Wi.../dp/B06XJL9646 [2.4 GHz WiFi]
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MYZJ0LW [2.4 GHz WiFi]

============================================
PROPRIETARY ATMOS CAPABLE SYSTEMS:

UK's DAMSON Wireless Audio System ($800) is the FIRST to support ATMOS [5.1.2], using proprietary JetStreamNet format in [less crowded] 5 GHz Wi-Fi Band:
https://www.cepro.com/article/damson...ultiroom_audio

============================================
WISA CAPABLE SYSTEMS (NOT ATMOS):

Cinehome Enclave HD5.1 ($800 on Amazon incl 5-Speakers+SW) does NOT support ATMOS, nor does it have Future Growth capability to add more Wireless Speakers for either DD-7.1 [2 more Speakers] nor ATMOS-5.1.2 [2 more] or ATMOS-5.1.4 [4 more]. Also note that ALL of the speakers are a TOO SMALL compromise in order to meet your under $1000 price point.

Marantz ALL-WIRELESS Surround DD7.1 HD-Control Center ($295 on Crutchfield, $400 on Amazon with NO Speakers) does not [YET] support ATMOS, although it does support DD-7.1 via [Loss-Less, Hi-Rez] WISA Wireless Technologies. So it's an affordable STARTING POINT that can be used with ANY WISA compliant Wireless Speakers....growing into a fully capable DD7.1 system as your budget allows:
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_714RPH...ter.html?cc=07
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RP-Hu.../dp/B01A03KTL6
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...d9g08Xjg-LOkrH [RP=HUB1 Manual. Bluetooth is INPUT Only from Cellphone]

Least expensive Marantz ALL-WIRELESS DD2.1 [Growth to 7.1] STEREO SYSTEM ($600 on Amazon with 2-MAIN-Speakers+10-in SW) also does NOT support ATMOS, leaving $400 to buy a pair of SMALL LR/RR plus a Center Speaker [any WISA Compatible] for DD5.1...and eventually add another pair of WISA SMALL Speakers (Dipole or Bipolar) for 7.1:
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Refer.../dp/B01BKYZ798

Least expensive Marantz ALL-WIRELESS DD5.1 Surround SYSTEM ($1500 on Amazon with 5-Speakers+SW) also does NOT support ATMOS:
https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Refer.../dp/B01BLQACFE

Axiim ALL-WIRELESS DD7.1 Surround Media Center Q-UHD-9100MC ($799 Preorder with NO Speakers) also does NOT support ATMOS:
https://axiim.com/products/q-uhd-wir...r-q-uhd-9100mc
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2017/11/prweb14915449.htm [AVAILABLE "End of Nov2017"....PREORDER ONLY]
https://www.lifewire.com/axiim-wirel...system-1847028
https://missingremote.com/review/fir...theater-system [FYI: Marantz Controller or System is much lower cost.]
https://axiim.com
OTOH: Axiim WISA Speakers are already available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Axiim-XM-4211.../dp/B01DOU7VOK
https://www.amazon.com/Axiim-XM-4111.../dp/B01DOV292S
https://www.amazon.com/Axiim-XM-101S.../dp/B01DOUHPMS

FYI: Microsoft just joined WISA,....so....future X-Boxes may support this capability (and maybe current X-Boxes???).
https://www.cepro.com/article/xbox_w...surround_sound

The HARMAN Group also just joined WISA, which includes AKG®, Harman Kardon®, Infinity®, JBL®, Lexicon®, Mark Levinson® and Revel®....so it's catching on BIGLY:
http://www.wisaassociation.org/Docum..._PR_HARMAN.pdf


Four more WISA members, incl., US GoldenEars (popular for the Hearing Challenged) and 3 Euro Hi-Fi Mfrs:
https://www.dealerscope.com/article/...t-launches/all



I also ran across a report that LG makes a USB Dongle that supports up to DD7.1 WISA, obviously intended for PC's....but their Spec Sheet also says it could be connected to a (suitably modified) AVR [interesting info, but that's all I know....]:
http://www.summitwireless.com/summit-usbtx.html

===============================================
PURCHASE STRATEGY:

If you truly want to end up with a DD7.1 or ATMOS-5.1.2 System.....esp. if you care about Speaker QUALITY, you might want to consider buying JUST an ATMOS Capable Wireless CONTROLLER (aka AVR) now [or SoundBar with L/R/C Speakers built in + maybe a QUALITY Sub-Woofer] and then SIMPLY ADD additional Surround/Height Speakers in incremental PAIRS at later date(s), perhaps using a separate Wireless Extender.

IF we assume say $300-$400 for an ALL-WIRELESS HD-Control Center [DD7.1 + NOT ATMOS] and say $300-400 for a [Mediocre] Sub-Woofer, that only leaves $300-$400 in your Budget for Multiple Speakers...which is $60-$80 per Speaker AVERAGE for DD5.1 (L/R/C/LS/RS)....and only $42-$57 per Speaker AVERAGE for DD7.1. Same argument holds for an ATMOS + Wireless Capable AVR (also about $400)....you will have to either give up on ATMOS....or significantly increase your Budget (perhaps over a period of time to GROW the system in to what you WANT it to eventually become.)

===============================================
Another LOWER COST ALTERNATIVE is to look at SOUNDBARS that employ Sophisticated SIGNAL PROCESSING so that an ARRAY of Emitters in the Soundbar (plus external Sub-Woofer) SYNTHESIZES a Sound Field that is SUPPOSED to mimic a REAL Surround (MAY include ATMOS) Sound Field. How WELL they do this is is up to the viewer's opinion....and is usually more effective for Gimmicky Game and Movie Soundtracks, rather than REAL Music Reproduction. Best is likely from YAMAHA, such as the following [SW IS EXTRA]. Other mfr's are significantly LESS....but also likely not as effective...suggest you do your OWN research:
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YSP-56.../dp/B016B44AP4 [$1300 on Amazon, DD7.1 and ATMOS-7.1.2]
Thanks a lot, I have been trying to find a transmitter/receiver to send basic sound in our church to another room, this lists definitely has what I need.
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I have a specific use case for my theater in the living room and for various reasons I'm not able to route cables for all my ear level surrounds and rear channels and therefore only a wireless solution is possible. Really looking forward to when WISA transmitters and wireless speakers are mature and more widely available.

Until that time, I've experimented with several options, first thing I realize is that for home theater wireless solutions, latency is important, unlike if it's just audio. Bluetooth is possible but it'll have to be using the AptX-LL (low latency) protocol.

For the surrounds and rears in this theater, I'm currently using two solutions:

1) https://www.trustedreviews.com/reviews/blue-aura-ws80i
2) https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Audi...s%2C369&sr=8-5

transmitting to a

https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Blue...ateway&sr=8-14

connected via aux out to a 2ch Class-D amp to two passive bookshelf speakers

In general they work quite well, except the bluetooth option does have some occasional clicks/pops/dropouts, but for rears or surrounds, it's just about tolerable.

Hope this helps!
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Has anyone ever developed a device that can wireless transmit a 5.1 SPDIF signal? I want to install a 4K projector and Apple TV 4K at one location. 30 feet away is my Sonos Playbar, where there is an optical audio input for 5.1 surround. The best I can do wirelessly is to install a second Apple TV near the Playbar, and use Airplay 2. The problem with that, however, is that Airplay 2 only transmits stereo signals.

To get 5.1, I currently run a 35-foot optical cable across the room to my Playbar. That isn't a long-term solution. What I've been unable to find is a device that can transmit SPDIF 5.1 optical audio from one part of the room to another. There are plenty of wireless HDMI solutions, but most of the reliable ones that are affordable would break up the HDMI 2.0 handshake between my ATV and 4K projector. I've looked into lots of hacks, including converting opticaly-to-coax SPDIF and running over an analog NTSC video transmitter. NTSC analog video uses a 6Mhz channel, as does SPDIF audio. The market for NTSC video transmitters is pretty limited (you see it with car backup cameras), and there aren't a lot of rock solid consumer-grade transmitters as a result.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd really like to avoid cutting into drywall and my ceiling just get 5.1 surround.
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post #13 of 17 Old 06-03-2019, 06:49 PM
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The only 5.1 compatible system I’m aware of is Klipsch’s WiSA controller. However, I think it’s only compatible with Klipsch WiSA speakers. I don’t think there is a separate receiver for the transmiiter.

https://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-RP-Hu.../dp/B01A03KTL6


This might also be a contender.

https://axiim.com/products/q-uhd-wir...=1079261233180

Regards,
Wayne


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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxIn7 View Post
Has anyone ever developed a device that can wireless transmit a 5.1 SPDIF signal? I want to install a 4K projector and Apple TV 4K at one location. 30 feet away is my Sonos Playbar, where there is an optical audio input for 5.1 surround. The best I can do wirelessly is to install a second Apple TV near the Playbar, and use Airplay 2. The problem with that, however, is that Airplay 2 only transmits stereo signals.

To get 5.1, I currently run a 35-foot optical cable across the room to my Playbar. That isn't a long-term solution. What I've been unable to find is a device that can transmit SPDIF 5.1 optical audio from one part of the room to another. There are plenty of wireless HDMI solutions, but most of the reliable ones that are affordable would break up the HDMI 2.0 handshake between my ATV and 4K projector. I've looked into lots of hacks, including converting opticaly-to-coax SPDIF and running over an analog NTSC video transmitter. NTSC analog video uses a 6Mhz channel, as does SPDIF audio. The market for NTSC video transmitters is pretty limited (you see it with car backup cameras), and there aren't a lot of rock solid consumer-grade transmitters as a result.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd really like to avoid cutting into drywall and my ceiling just get 5.1 surround.
I would think you could achieve that with a wireless HDMI transmitter & receiver, along with HDMI audio extractors at each end, and an HDMI to optical audio converter at the receiving end.

Apple TV > HDFury or similar > HDFury video output > projector
HDFury audio HDMI > Wireless HDMI transmitter
Wireless HDMI receiver > HDMI audio extractor
HDMI audio extractor > optical to Sonos

I wasn’t able to find a wireless HDMI receiver that includes an optical output.

Not exactly a cheap solution, but it should work while also preserving the HDMI 2.0 video signal. It’s possible there may be a small delay or lip sync issue though. Try it out and let us know how it goes.
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Originally Posted by Radio81 View Post
I would think you could achieve that with a wireless HDMI transmitter & receiver, along with HDMI audio extractors at each end, and an HDMI to optical audio converter at the receiving end.

Apple TV > HDFury or similar > HDFury video output > projector
HDFury audio HDMI > Wireless HDMI transmitter
Wireless HDMI receiver > HDMI audio extractor
HDMI audio extractor > optical to Sonos

I wasn’t able to find a wireless HDMI receiver that includes an optical output.

Not exactly a cheap solution, but it should work while also preserving the HDMI 2.0 video signal. It’s possible there may be a small delay or lip sync issue though. Try it out and let us know how it goes.
Thanks. That is the direction I'm thinking of going. It's a lot of devices to buy to avoid cutting holes, but worth exploring.

I would think if I were going to do this, I'd want a Wireless HDMI setup that's designed for 1080p if I only want to transmit the audio. The 4K wireless HDMI devices claim wide bands. That means they either use a lot of channels that would interfere with consumer Wifi. And if they're 60ghz, they're really line-of-sight dependent.
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Interestingly, I found that a company in Europe used to make the device I now seek, but I cannot find any available used.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Marmitek-An.../dp/B011RE4HU6
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-07-2019, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoxIn7 View Post
Has anyone ever developed a device that can wireless transmit a 5.1 SPDIF signal? I want to install a 4K projector and Apple TV 4K at one location. 30 feet away is my Sonos Playbar, where there is an optical audio input for 5.1 surround. The best I can do wirelessly is to install a second Apple TV near the Playbar, and use Airplay 2. The problem with that, however, is that Airplay 2 only transmits stereo signals.

To get 5.1, I currently run a 35-foot optical cable across the room to my Playbar. That isn't a long-term solution. What I've been unable to find is a device that can transmit SPDIF 5.1 optical audio from one part of the room to another. There are plenty of wireless HDMI solutions, but most of the reliable ones that are affordable would break up the HDMI 2.0 handshake between my ATV and 4K projector. I've looked into lots of hacks, including converting opticaly-to-coax SPDIF and running over an analog NTSC video transmitter. NTSC analog video uses a 6Mhz channel, as does SPDIF audio. The market for NTSC video transmitters is pretty limited (you see it with car backup cameras), and there aren't a lot of rock solid consumer-grade transmitters as a result.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'd really like to avoid cutting into drywall and my ceiling just get 5.1 surround.
There are numerous "Wireless Audio Video Extenders" with L, R & Composite-Video (White/Red/Yellow) Inputs/Outputs. Some people have reported success in extending the COAX SPDIF Signal via the Video (Yellow) port [although unlikely, there is a possibility that it MAY NOT work with ALL such devices, so be prepared to try more than one unit and send the rest back for refund]. You would have to use an Optical-to-Coax and an Coax-to-Optical Converter at either end:
https://hydrogenaud.io/index.php/topic,40839.0.html
PS: Mfrs don't usually provide a spec for the supported Video Bandwidth...which would most likely be in the range of 5 to 7 MHz.

https://www.amazon.com/Wireless-Tran.../dp/B07MVG9RXD
https://www.amazon.com/Wrieless-Exte.../dp/B07PJR53J5
https://www.amazon.com/Optimal-Shop-.../dp/B00Q1HJW4Q

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=coax+to+o...b_sb_ss_i_1_16

COAX SPDIF is Differential-Manchester-Encoded Data, which means that the RF Spectrum looks like an RF Carrier AT the Bit-Rate Frequency plus modulation "splatter" above and below that Freq:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S/PDIF
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differ...ester_encoding

DD5.1 has a Bit-Rate-Frequency as high as 640 kbps [from Blu-Ray Discs], so SPDIF digital waveform might be somewhat degraded if Max RF Spectrum is less than about 3 x 0.64 MHz...well within the supported Bandwidth of the Video (Yellow) Extender. Dolby Digital Plus [from Blu-Ray Discs, aka E-AC3] has a Bit-Rate-Frequency as high as 1.7 Mbps, so Max RF Spectrum should be about 3 x 1.7 Mbps, again well with the supported Bandwidth of the Video Extender. And for Dolby-Digital-Plus playback from (discontinued) HD-DVD Discs, Max RF Spectrum should be about 3 x 3 MHz...which MIGHT cause reception problems. And of course Dolby TrueHD is NOT supported via SPDIF Coax/Optical Interface due to insufficient digital Bandwidth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_...l#Applications

Last edited by holl_ands; 06-07-2019 at 03:16 PM.
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