HTIB, but not neccesarily low-end ($500-1000) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 17 Old 03-30-2004, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Robberbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Naperville IL
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, newbie-lurker type here chiming in, so bear with me.... I intend to gore no man's oxen.

After reading the various threads here until my eyes actually ached, I've come to three conclusions:

(1) Buy decent speakers. Start there.
(2) Your receiver should be about 1/3rd the cost of your speakers.
(3) Wait for a decent DVI DVD player (*availablity TBD)

I've also learned that the sony "dream" systems are garbage, at least for music, and that Bose systems are mostly just hype.

So where does that leave me?

I'm buying (in the next 10 days or so) a 50'' Sammy DLP (might get a sony kf50we610, but that's a different thread) and I want a decent surround sound system to go with it. 5.1, 6.1, 7.1, Dolby EX, Dolby IIx, THX-certified, are the buzzwords, but since the content is almost all in 5.1, I'm not sure if it matters. What I (and I'm guessing many other first-time RPTV buyers) need to know ifs what to look for and what to avoid.

Here's what I've learned....

1. For HTIBs -- that is, all-in-one systems that include speakers, reciever, and a DVD player -- the systems to look at include the onkyo 760 and the Yamaha YHT-740. There are new and improved all-in-ones coming from sammy and panny, but not sure they're out yet.

2. It *might* be better to start with a speaker system, like the Hsu Ventriloquist vt-12 + Hsu sub, or Infinity TSS-750, or Polk RM6700 (or others) and *then* buy a decent receiver (Yama RX-v1400?) and just WAIT for a proper DVD player, such as a Bravo d2, or the upcoming sammy, or others that will have DVI out.

Look, I'm not an audiophile; the last time I bough audio gear was in college, and I got taken for one of those "Home Theatre Research" scam sets (white van sale). I suspect there are others like me, who just want to get a decent base system we can work off of. Help me obi-wan kenobi(s), you are my only hope! I promise, I'll upgrade my centers and buy monster cables later.
Robberbar is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 03-30-2004, 11:26 PM
Member
 
motulal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

You will not regret the purchase of the Onkyo or the Yamaha HTB's you mentioned. I have a YHT-800 and Onkyo HTB (forgot which model). The Onkyo set has better speakers and the Yamaha set has the better receiver. The Yamaha speakers are a lot smaller though and blend in much better.

Could you tell us what happened with the '"Home Theatre Research" scam sets (white van sale).'. I have been approached several times by guys in a Van purporting to sell Bose speaker. What's the angle?


/// Motulal
motulal is offline  
post #3 of 17 Old 03-31-2004, 03:18 AM
Senior Member
 
kq6ea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SoCal / Long Beach
Posts: 320
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You generally get a "Factory Sealed" box with bricks in it instead of speakers!

You Buy 'Em, We Fly 'Em!
kq6ea is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 17 Old 03-31-2004, 07:38 AM
Senior Member
 
mhe4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I have a Denon ADV-1000 in the bedroom and am quite happy with it. The speakers are not bad and the unit is easy to use/setup. It has 2 optical inputs for audio as well as 3 video inputs (TV/Aux/VCR). It has a built-in progressive scan DVD player with component out (for the DVD only). It comes with an unpowered sub, but has an output for a powered one to be added.

Mark
mhe4 is offline  
post #5 of 17 Old 03-31-2004, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Robberbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Naperville IL
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The 'home research theater' speakers scam has been going on for years. They are real speakers (with bad components in a nice-looking veneer case) that the van guys try to portray as 'stolen' or 'overstock'. They'll claim these are $2500 speakers but they'll let them 'fall off the truck' for $200 or whatever. There's a couple big discussions about the scam over at the ecoustics forum. As for a bose scam, I'm not familiar. This is probably a 'bricks-in-the-box' scam, as mentioned earlier.


So, scams aside, does anyone have some advice about the HTIB-vs-medium-end speaker set debate (which may be raging in my mind alone)?
Robberbar is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 03-31-2004, 12:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
lespurgeon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 2,537
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 52
The Onkyo and Yamaha HTIBs are pretty darn good now and have everything nicely in the box. But, if you are at all like me you get something good enough and just start wanting a little better. I am still using old HTIB speakers as surrounds, but have new receiver, fronts, center, and sub in the last year.

I'd look at a Panasonic XR50 receiver that is due out any day now as an update to the XR45. Do a little sampling of speakers and buy 2 mains and a center that you really like. Plan on adding a sub and surrounds later. If you can still get a set of JBL S-series on clearance someplace that can be a very good deal (might get full surround system cheap that way).

For well under $1,000 you can have a quite good sounding starter system that can easily be added to rather than replaced.
lespurgeon is offline  
post #7 of 17 Old 03-31-2004, 02:14 PM
Senior Member
 
weedeater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Sterling, VA
Posts: 413
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 21
TechTV recommended a Panasonic system for around $500 They really liked the 'bang for the buck'.

I don't understand why you stated 'the receiver price should be 1/3 of the speaker price'. I've usually found that they should be about the same price or maybe more. That is, if I spend $500 on speakers, then I look for a $500 receiver.

If anybody knows, I'm looking for a system where the rear channel speakers are wireless. I've heard they are out there but I haven't seen any.
weedeater is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 04-01-2004, 05:39 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
RalphArch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Rockville MD
Posts: 2,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I bought a Pioneer HTIB system about two years ago (driven by a Pioneer 810 receiver - loved it) This year for my new HT room I bought a Pioneer 814 receiver and separately bought the HSU ventriloquest speakers and an STF-2 subwoofer.

There is a tremendous improvement in my sound system with the HSU speakers/sub compared with the straight Pioneer system, and it was only several hundred more. Pretty sure the difference is the speakers and not the receiver difference.
RalphArch is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 04-01-2004, 10:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
wdrazek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 762
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 11
<<LONG>>


I have a Samsung SK-6 which features Klipsch Quintet speakers and sub. The DVD/Receiver is a good looking unit with blue floreschent lighting and aluminum finish. It outputs a decent PQ although my current TV isn't really the best to judge that on. The radio is decent but as a CD player it doesn't cut it. There are a few ergonomic foibles, too.

Overall, the sound is with pleasant with nice whallop out of the 10" sub. The system will fill a mid sized LR with enough power for almost anyone. That said, it does not sound as good as the Onkyo's or the better Pioneer's. And it lacks wireless rear speakers which are the cat's meow and should become standard on every unit in this category. That is a much more important feature than more channels for this class of machine.

The finish and form factor overall are pretty nice overall. Each of the 5 matching satellite speakers has a built-in stand and can either disappear or easily placed in a room. The wiring is cheap but if that matters to you there is always Monster or whatever else you like to try out. The system is good enough to benefit from improved wiring.

At some point it would be fun to pick up an improved DVD/Receiver like the Onkyo to partner with the Klipsch Quintet speakers. That setup would really rock. And it would be a killer small room system. But I don't know which one to select between Pioneer, Onkyo and the 3rd generation digital amplifiers from Sharp. I have never tested any of these. Anyone know?

Although on its own it gives up some on sound quality and ergonomics the looks, the form factor and all in one convenience of the Samsung SK6 are compelling.
wdrazek is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 04-01-2004, 10:20 PM
Member
 
JoshKaner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HTIB's are great- I helped two friends find one that suited them (they had absolutely no clue what they were doing). They were amazed with HT. Anyway, I am ridiculously surprised that there has not been any backlash with the monster speaker cable comments made in this thread. So. In my experience, Monster Cables provide absolutely no better quality than generic radioshack (for speaker cable). And those Acoustic Research (??) ones at BB are cheap as dirt too, check those out before you pay $75 for a set of monster component video cables...

My first set up was kind of lumped together, but I am overall pleased with the sound. I picked up the Primus HT pack from inifinity, with the PS-8 powered sub, and an old sony strde925 reciever that is more than adequate for my living room. As i hope to upgrade, this will be moved to the bedroom (whenever i get around to it). The cost you ask? the 4 sats and center channel can be had for around $400 MSRP, plus the sub. I say go for some matching lower-range speakers from manfucaturer X, get a decent reciever (check out audigon for some used ones), and get a separate DVD player ( for the same reason that a pre/pro + amp will yield better sound than a reciever with all else being equal).

Josh
JoshKaner is offline  
post #11 of 17 Old 04-01-2004, 11:13 PM
Member
 
motulal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 164
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

Thanks for the info on the scams. I knew better than to fall for them but was still curious about the 'scam'.

I am in the same boat as 'lespurgeon'. The Yamaha and Onkyo HTB's that I have are great but still have the itch for something better. Probably go with an RX-V2400 or something similar and a good matched set of speakers. The only question mark is the sub.

Yup, monster cables are extremely over priced although some of radio shacks 'high end' cables are just as bad. The problem is that radio shacks cheap cables are really bad. So, I personally prefer to shop around for a good quality cable that is low on the marketing buzz.


/// Motulal.
motulal is offline  
post #12 of 17 Old 04-03-2004, 12:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
9volt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by weedeater
I don't understand why you stated 'the receiver price should be 1/3 of the speaker price'. I've usually found that they should be about the same price or maybe more. That is, if I spend $500 on speakers, then I look for a $500 receiver.
If I had a $1k budget for speakers and a receiver, I'd spend $250-300 on the receiver and 700-850 on speakers. You get more bang for you buck that way.
9volt is offline  
post #13 of 17 Old 04-04-2004, 10:10 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
THe Monster cables made a difference for me in this case. Mind you, Monster has different grades: You don't have to use the $80 super high end ones.

Here's what happened. Cable STB. I was using the cable company's cheapie cables for video and sound, and the sound was actually buzzing and was hideous.

For laughs, I had some stray monsters hanging around. Swapped them out, and noticed a difference in both video and audio immediately. The audio was restored to perfection.

So yes, there's some hype, but... if you can get yourself maybe the $30-ish Monster cables, you might see a difference.

And yes, cables overall are overpriced.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #14 of 17 Old 04-04-2004, 04:28 PM
Member
 
akai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Call the 800 number and you may get for only $699 plus free shipping. The system comes with VT-12 and a10" sub from HSU research. The speaker system alone is worth $600. Then you get a Sherwood R903, all digital receiver 6.1 (listed $599-$699). Then you also get Sherwood V903 DVD progressive scan which outputs 480p (listed $299). The PQ on my Panny PWD6 from the Sherwood V903 is as good as my Bravo D1. I have both. Take a good look at this system. This system is a steal. No DVI on DVD player but PQ is unbelievable. The KAS 303 listed $899 on the website. Please call the 800 number instead and the salesperson may give you the deal. I paid $699 plus tax, free shipping.
mp
akai is offline  
post #15 of 17 Old 04-04-2004, 05:34 PM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Q of BanditZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: blurayoasis.com
Posts: 15,715
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Impressive! :)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
Q of BanditZ is offline  
post #16 of 17 Old 04-04-2004, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Robberbar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Naperville IL
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's a great price for that system, but I called and they had no idea what I was talking about. at $900 it's not that great; at $700 I'd jump for it.
Robberbar is offline  
post #17 of 17 Old 04-07-2004, 12:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
Till's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 645
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Robberbar, I second 9volt! Spend $300 on receiver and $700 on speakers and wait for nice DVI to come out as you said yourself in your suggestion no. 2.

For receiver I'd go with Pio 912, will soon be replaced with 914, so good deals might be had. It even has pre-outs for all channels so that you can use it as a pre-pro and build up on it, just as you intended. For speakers, I think the HSU you mention might be good. Also check Rocket ELT or Tyke + subwoofer. this will give you better sound right away for the same price as HTiB plus you'll be able to upgrade. It's a no-brainer partuclarly for someone like you who has already done good research it seems. YOur little scam failure shall be forgiven.

Till
Till is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread Home Theater In A Box

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off