Too low end for component video switching? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 16 Old 03-31-2004, 11:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I intend on spending about $450 on a receiver/speaker surround sound system, either a package or separate receiver + speakers.

I definitely will need at least 2 component video inputs, and am wondering if this is too low end to get a decent signal from the component out. I will have a cable run of about 25 feet from the receiver to my projector.

Thanks for any advice or recommendations.

Harrell
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post #2 of 16 Old 04-01-2004, 10:32 PM
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Hi Harrellh,

You should be able to get component switching at that price. Look at the Yamaha, Onkyo, Panasonic HTB's and possibly the Sony's. I know all of them have enough bandwidth for DVD ( 480p ) but will not really support 720p or 1080p without loss. 1080i will be borderline.

IMHO, generally the Yamaha's have the better receiver, Onkyo the better speakers ( although their receiver is no slouch ).

Also, your 25 foot run will result in a signal loss so use good cables.
A word of warning, resist the lure to buy any 'Monster' brand cables. They are way way way over priced. Use the money towards a better receiver or speakers.

/// Motulal
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post #3 of 16 Old 04-02-2004, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Motulal,

Thanks for the info.

I agree about the Monster cables, unbelievable markup for just a connector.

Unfortunately I will be wanting to watch HD output from cable box at 1080i or 720p, as well as DVDs. I may have to just try one of those units and see how they look.

Harrell
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post #4 of 16 Old 04-04-2004, 03:27 PM
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JVC JX-S111 Google that.

Would that be of any help?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-05-2004, 02:15 AM
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Hi Q, harrellh

The JVC website lists a bandwidth of 10 MHZ for the JVC JX-S111. Thats sufficient for svideo and composite but horribly deficient for HDTV component.

My personal recommendation is a minimum of 100 MHZ of video bandwidth for HDTV signals. Equipment with this rating tend to be expensive. Some of the other people on this forum recommend 200 MHZ although that gets even more expensive.

My Yamaha receiver has 60 MHZ and the Onkyo has 50 MHZ. They will both pass a 480p/720p(?)/1080i signal but there will be a little loss on 1080i and more on 720p/1080p.

Depending on the native resolution of your projector, you may get lucky. Personally, I would try shielded RG-6 or better ( 3 for each of the 3 component connections) as a low cost, high quality method to test the feasibility of the setup.

/// Motulal
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post #6 of 16 Old 04-05-2004, 09:18 AM
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Damn. So you mean to tell me my Xbox would look even better if I get it off that switcher?

I see I have some planning I need to do... ;)

digression:

If I buy one of those genfn DVI switchers, those have good reviews, is that going to do a good job for me HD wise? Does this MHz principle still apply?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #7 of 16 Old 04-05-2004, 10:35 PM
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Hi Q,

Yes, the MHZ principle still applies. I am not familiar with DVI switchers so I have no idea about the genfn brand. Make sure it has plenty of video switching bandwidth.

/// Motulal
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post #8 of 16 Old 04-06-2004, 12:20 PM
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Give me a standard to go by with video switching bandwidth so I don't make anymore mistakes, please! :)

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #9 of 16 Old 04-06-2004, 01:29 PM
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I was told 720p (highest bandwidth HDTV standard) requires about 40 MHZ; however, many of the receivers that spec 30 or 40 MHZ, may only provide 10 or 20 (just like watts of power claims). Folks have said if you get a receiver that specs 100 MHZ, it should at least provide 40 or 50.
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post #10 of 16 Old 04-06-2004, 03:43 PM
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http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/hd-DVI-2x1.htm

Based on all that, your thoughts?

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post #11 of 16 Old 04-07-2004, 12:05 AM
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Hi Guys,

Here you go :-

System Bandwidth Requirements for Video:

NTSC Broadcast and VHS: 4.2 MHz
Laser Disk: 5.3 MHz
Regular NTSC DVD: 7 (6.8) MHz
Progressive Scan NTSC DVD and 480p DTV: 13.5 MHz
1080i HDTV: 37 MHz; 22 MHZ should be fine in practice since it is interlaced
720p HDTV; 37 MHz.


The gotcha is with the receiver. Lets say the receiver has 2 component in's ,1 component out and advertises a video bandwidth of 50MHZ. That comes out to 25MHZ per component-in which is barely enough for 1080i. Further, when they say 50MHZ, they really mean 'might be up to 50MHZ'.

The hd-dvi-2x1 should be plenty.

/// Motulal
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post #12 of 16 Old 04-07-2004, 12:23 AM
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Required video bandwidth for component switching.

Have a look at these web pages :-

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/whyten.htm

http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/bandwid.htm

Basically, you need at least 75 MHZ to push a 37MHZ HDTV signal. That's why I recommend 100 MHZ.

/// Motulal
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post #13 of 16 Old 04-07-2004, 01:12 AM
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So did anyone have any recommendations on HTIB that will handle HD?

I am looking for one < $800 if at all possible.

Time to upgrade my old Kenwood HTIB (I think it was 503HTB or something) because it doesn't have component in/out.

However, I need to make sure it can take my HD box signal and DVD and go to the projector via component.
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post #14 of 16 Old 04-07-2004, 11:35 AM
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Denon 684XP looks promising. Maybe the Sony HT7700D? It comes with pro DVD player as well. The Onkyo 760?

Check 'em out!

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #15 of 16 Old 04-11-2004, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought a Onkyo TXSR501 receiver last weekend. I had no trouble setting it up, and the sound is nice.

I routed both my TW HD cable converter box and my DVD player to the 2 component inputs of the receiver through 3-foot cables. Then I routed the output of the receiver through a 20 foot cable to the component input of my Z2. This cable, by the way, is actually two 10-foot component cables hooked together with 3 RCA barrel adapters -- so this cable is in no way the "ideal" cable, and will eventually be replaced.

The result? The picture quality is excellent. Both for DVD and HD material. I had 2 engineer friends over who both are into HD tv, and they agreed it looked great (and we were looking for problems).

For the DVD material we just looked at image quality (obviously the DVD quality was less than the HD, but still quite good). For the HD material we were comparing against a second TW HD converter box that was connected via DVI with a 6 foot cable, so I could A-B them by switching between the Z2 input 1 and input 2, and it was difficult to tell any difference in quality. All HD was at 1080i to the Z2.

So purely from a practical standpoint, both the Onkyo receiver component switching (rated at 50 MHz) and the hacked cables work really well. Further, while I respect all the comments from experienced users who talk about DVI, I certainly could not see any difference that would warrant going to any trouble to use DVI. Maybe for DVD it might make a difference if it were digital all the way, but I could not see this with HD tv.

Regards,

H
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post #16 of 16 Old 04-14-2004, 10:50 PM
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Hi harrellh,

I agree with you on the DVI. I use RGB and component myself and have not seen any improvement with DVI.

Anyway, Its good to hear that it worked out for you.

/// Motulal
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