The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread. - Page 90 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2671 of 2687 Old 05-24-2019, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by home4sale2 View Post
Thanks Mississippiman, this is very helpful. A few more questions:

1. Do I also need 10oz of PPG Diamond Flat from HD as well in addition to Varathane Clear Matte Poly, White pearl and Sterling Silver?

Yes....I didn't include that because that component is a given.....it is always included, although some increase the amount to as much as 16 oz for Low Lumen/ Dark Room Theaters that require no Colorant...or very low amounts. Also, increasing the amount of White (Diamond) and reducing the Water by half makes the Mix "Roll-able".....but I don't recommend that since rolling carries withit several caveats, the least is using more paint and putting it up too thickly. The concept of Silver Fire is based upon the Mix being translucent, allowing a percentage of the projected light to pass through and react to the underlying White surface. That helps mainting original White balance and dynamic colors, both that would otherwise be dampened by projecting onto a solidly opaque Grey surface.



2. In terms of colorant, I would need 3 ounces (which is 88 ml) so use this chart and get the appropriate amounts (ex. 88% of 50ml of crimson red and so on)? 88ml of distilled water

100ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils
50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
14ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
10ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

In truth.....you don't want to try to reduce measurements that are already so small....it's better to actually increase the amounts. Smaller amounts have less leeway in measuring. The difference between too much or too little of any specific Tint becomes far more an issue at smaller proportions. Just the opposite, when you measuring out ounces, a slight variation of a couple Milliliters isn't going to push the Colorant into a overly Red or Blue hue. Consider this....I mix the Black Flame commercial version of colorant in "Multiple Quart" amounts each, so I can be 1/2 a ounce off on a given amount and it not matter. Of course that doesn't happen

Having a lot of colorant left isn't any issue to worry about....you have to buy the individual Tints in Tubes of at least 4 oz tubes anyway. Each 4 oz Tube is just a tiny amount over 118 Milliliters! Shoot...whenever I am traveling to do a Screen and need more Colorant... I can turn to the Liquitex version, do the math and mix larger proportionate amounts of all the components (...including the Water used for rinsing...that is mixed in too...) together. It's not Rocket Science or Brain Surgery....at the larger amounts it becomes "Cave Man Easy". And not any more expensive.


3. For viscosity? Do I also need 24-36 oz of distilled water? Or is this not needed for this mix?

The varying amount is needed......required actually, as it thins the Mix to a point that it will flow easily through the HVLP Gun to enable the Dusting technique to do it's job of making the painting be virtually error free. The "24-36" variable is to accommodate different Guns that have different sized Needles (hopefully not) and/or lower pressure output. Smaller Needles (1.0 mm) need a very thinned mix. As mentioned above, if Rolling is the absolute ONLY application method that can be used, the Water Content drops, and Diamond White content is increased.



4. Lowes must not carry it or the link is not valid. I found this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Ole...-304774684-_-N
Would this do?


No. That version has too large Mica particles I have no problem using the link. It is available from Lowes. Used to be that the Silver could only be ordered in 2 Quart quantities, but they seem to have dropped that requirement. Try the link below:
Click Here



4. I am assuming I mix the appropriate components (don't whip it up, take it slow etc) and paint away (saw notes on application techniques and have no questions on that yet).


The Poly and Water are mixed together 1st. Then the Diamond. (...the thin viscosity mix helps thin the White out...) the The Pearl....then the Silver. Colorant (if used) goes in last and requires a longer (...but still slow...) stirring using the appropriate "Cyclone Squirrel Cage" Mixer. Only use a slow speed, moving the Mixing Wand around the Can. High speeds introduce air (bubbles).


Thank you.

You betcha!


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post #2672 of 2687 Old 05-25-2019, 03:14 PM
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The Official Silver Fire V.2 Thread.

Ok, so here's my final list and actions, v2.5 3.0 colorant. can you please confirm? Thank you.



16 oz of Varathane clear matte polyurethane (for viscosity), with some distilled water (mix this first)

10oz of PPG Diamond Flat from HD (then mix this)

32 oz of Rust-Oleum White pearl metallic accents (satin) Note: White pearl metallic interior paint is not available in my area but it appears others have used metallic accents and you approve? (mix this next)

16 oz of Rust-Oeum Sterling Silver metallic accents (gloss) (mix this next)



Colorant section (mix this last, slower):

100ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils

50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red

25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green

14ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue

10ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

2 oz of Liquitex Basics Gold as well?



By the way, I will be rolling this on (I know you recommend spray paint but I can roll great, never spray painted, maybe when I do my rev2). Will sand the wall etc. prior.

Last edited by home4sale2; 05-25-2019 at 04:40 PM.
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post #2673 of 2687 Old 05-25-2019, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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A Real Nail Biter this'n.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by home4sale2 View Post
Ok, so here's my final list and actions, v2.5 3.0 colorant. can you please confirm? Thank you.


16 oz of Varathane clear matte polyurethane (for viscosity), with some distilled water (mix this first) Start out with 16 oz Distilled or Filtered (Bottled Water is fine) when Rolling the mix must be thicker.

10oz of PPG Diamond Flat from HD (then mix this) Nope...if your going to Roll, increase the PPG to 20 oz.

32 oz of Rust-Oleum White pearl metallic accents (satin) Note: White pearl metallic interior paint is not available in my area but it appears others have used metallic accents and you approve? (mix this next)
I should....the specified type / name has always been Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents White Pearl...and it only comes in 32 oz Plastic Jars. Not sure at all how you mistook the stated name?


10 oz of Rust-Oeum Sterling Silver metallic accents (gloss) (mix this next)


Colorant section (mix this last, slower): All the items below are all mixed together SEPARATELY into one container....rinse water is included. THEN it is mixed into the Viscosity / Reflective Base mix slowly but thoroughly

100ml - filtered/distilled water for rinsing color components from utensils

50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red

25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green

14ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue

10ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

2 oz of Liquitex Basics Gold as well? (Not needed except when higher amounts of Silver Metallic are used. The use of Gold is to counteract any potential Bluing caused by the Silver Metallic. That isn't any concern here....only if you desire a "Warmer" look to the image. Hey....that 2 oz has a big effect on a almost 1 Gallon Mix. Powerful stuff.



By the way, I will be rolling this on (I know you recommend spray paint but I can roll great, never spray painted, maybe when I do my rev2). Will sand the wall etc. prior.

Ya Roll Great, eh? Then you'll know what I'm talking about when I say:
  • Use only a Free Spinning Roller Wand (Ball Bearing type is best) and high quality Roller Covers. No Shed 3/8" Nap
  • Load the Roller to just before the point of immediate drip-page when taken away from the Pan
  • Do not over-roll an area trying to "get the most out of" the paint load. Up once, then ONE Back Roll. Keep a wet edge going and always come into it first with the next Row.
  • If the surface seems over loaded (...but not running or sliding...) you can go back to the start and do ONE Vertical Back Roll, doing them all evenly. ONLY ONE per Downward Roll. (...doing this will help to prevent any Orange Peel)
It is also highly advisable to use a large "clean" Fan set about 8' in front of and centered on the Screen so as to dry the paint as quickly as possible. Doing so helps shrink the surface...flattening it out,,,,and eliminating very slight Roller Marks (...Gawd forbid! )

I gave up trying to guide Noobs through the rolling process long ago...then the mixes changed enough to make Rolling 95% impossible. Spraying is MUCH easier...and virtually assures that even a rank Noob can achieve perfection.** (...and I've run up on some pretty "Rank" Noobs. )





**.......if he follows directions, of course.
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Last edited by MississippiMan; 05-25-2019 at 09:09 PM.
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post #2674 of 2687 Old 06-07-2019, 10:41 AM
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Hello,
I would like to spray my white fixed frame pvc screen with metallic paint mix, but I’m unable to get metallic ingrediences for SF in Europe. However, I was able to order cheap Folkart metallic on Amazon so got this idea.

I wonder if I could use Folkart paints instead of Rustoleum metallics and try to recreate SF N/C mix:
2 parts Folkart silver metallic
1 part flat latex paint
1 part water based poly

I’m projecting from 10ft onto 110” screen using Benq HT2050, mostly during night in room with white walls. Image is quite washed out, so I want to increase contrast.

I already practiced spraying using my cheap HVLP gun with 1.5mm nozzle with some other cheap metallics mixes onto sample boards. Surface looks good, but projected image shows lot of grain.

I hope FA metallic can do better, but maybe I just have too high expectations.

Anyway, I would be greatful for any opinion
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post #2675 of 2687 Old 06-07-2019, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Too much Silver. That alone is the biggest factor in seeing Grain



a 1:1:1 ratio would be better 0.75:1;1 even better. Then there is the Water needed to thin the paint before straining. No less than a 0.5 part



If you decide you want an exact duplicate of Silver Fire v2.5, just PM me and I can show you where you can get the components. Others have done so...and using something wellvetted and known to work is what is goingf to give you the results you hope for. Where in the EU are you located?



Lastly, using a 1.5 mm Needle.nozzle requires getting the viscosity right, and spraying Dusters correctly. Straining the paint is also critical.
I don't see / haven't seen any interaction or descriptions, so I cannot judge just how close or how far away you are from doing things right.


That always makes me nervous, because out of a lack of real knowledge can come.....despair.

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post #2676 of 2687 Old 06-10-2019, 09:14 AM
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Hi Everyone,

I am planning to paint about 16x10 wall.Just wondering how much paint I would need to paint the complete wall.

Thanks in advance.
JK
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post #2677 of 2687 Old 06-10-2019, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Everyone,

I am planning to paint about 16x10 wall.Just wondering how much paint I would need to paint the complete wall.

Thanks in advance.
JK

If Cut in correctly and Sprayed correctly using the Duster Method with a prescribed HVLP Gun......1.25 Gallon (leaving several oz. in reserve for touch-up)

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post #2678 of 2687 Old 06-10-2019, 10:56 AM
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If Cut in correctly and Sprayed correctly using the Duster Method with a prescribed HVLP Gun......1.25 Gallon (leaving several oz. in reserve for touch-up)
Thank you, Man!.

Currently, I got textured wall!. Is there a better way to flatten it out and remove texture or just get a new drywall and paint it over!
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post #2679 of 2687 Old 06-10-2019, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, Man!.

Currently, I got textured wall!. Is there a better way to flatten it out and remove texture or just get a new drywall and paint it over!

If the Texture is just Texas Knockdown or something similar, go over it with a stiff 6" scraper (lightly) to really flatten out risen peaks, then skim coating (2x minimum) it with Lightweight Drywall Compound makes the most sense. Even if you started out with a new veneer of Drywall, there is enough smoothing required anyway to make covering the existing Drywall with a new Layer of the same redundant.


Now of course if the existing Wall is in absolutely horrid condition, that would be different. In that case, unless the wall had noticeable framing issues, I would use 3/8" Drywall laid out so that the primary screen area has as few joints as possible.....say a 2' Rip across the Bottom, then 2 stacked 48"ers....with two of those Centered on the Wall.
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post #2680 of 2687 Old 06-14-2019, 06:33 AM
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Greetings! Especially to MississippiMan! Been a while since I have been back here. You helped me build out a stretched FlexiWhite screen a couple of years back. Had some difficulty with creases since I saved some $ by buying the remnant. (Actually saved a fair chunk of change on that decision.) Anyway, over time all those creases came out from the pressure of the stretch alone. Time did what a hairdryer couldn't.

I am finally going to paint the sucker. I've done the spray job a couple of times before. Pure duster coating. The last one I did was 3 or 4 coats of dusted primer and 13+ coats of dusting. Worked beautifully. Still deciding whether to buy the Wagner Control or Wagner HVLP. Thought I would rent a Greco from HD, but the closest one with the sprayer for rent is about 30 minutes away. 2 trips? Not worth it.

Anyway. Went back through my notes and was having a little trouble making sense of them. Read through this thread a bit and it seems the recommended mix may have changed a bit. Here's my list for Silver Fire 2.5/3.0 (I assume that is gain?):

Colorant
50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
14ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
10ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue


Viscosity
Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethance Matte Finish - 16oz

Reflective
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl - 22oz
Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver - 22oz
Behr 1850 UPW Flat - 10oz
Liquitex Basics Gold - 2 oz

I have no notes on water content. Projector is a BenQ 1070. About 12 feet away and the image/ screen is ~122 inches/ 68 inches. Image is actually a couple of inches inside of that all around.

Advice appreciated before I do something stupid.
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post #2681 of 2687 Old 06-14-2019, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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@OldSade



Hello again!


  • Don't but a Wagner...get a Earlex 2901 and the additional 1 mm Tip Sprayer
  • 1mm Needle Kit 1.0 mm Needle Conversion Kit Part # 2353925 @ 800-328-8251 Ask for "Direct Sales" The Kit fits all Earlex Electric HVLP Guns
  • Unless you need significant Ambient Light Resistance, the Silver Metallic drops to 12 oz and the Pearl ups to 32 oz. The Behr UPW has been replaced with 16 oz of PPG Diamond Flat from HD
  • No Gold is necessary unless one specifically wants a warmer toned image
  • Water Added is 24-32 oz dependent upon Needle used. 1.0 mm? 32 oz is required for a Full Mix
  • Never...EVER assume with Silver Fire! The 3.0 numerical designation refers to 3 oz of added Colorant. Higher number means more added...lower number, less added
  • Silver Fire N/C is a Mix that has "No Colorant" added.

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Last edited by MississippiMan; 06-25-2019 at 12:41 PM.
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post #2682 of 2687 Old 06-15-2019, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
@OldSade



Hello again!


  • Don't but a Wagner...get a Earlex 2901 and the additional 1 mm Tip Sprayer
  • 1mm Needle Kit 1.0 mm Needle Conversion Kit Part # OHVACV1 @ 800-328-8251 Ask for "Direct Sales"
  • Unless you need significant Ambient Light Resistance, the Silver Metallic drops to 12 oz and the Pearl ups to 32 oz. The Behr UPW has been replaced with 16 oz of PPG Diamond Flat from HD
  • No Gold is necessary unless one specifically wants a warmer toned image
  • Water Added is 24-32 oz dependent upon Needle used. 1.0 mm? 32 oz is required for a Full Mix
  • Never...EVER assume with Silver Fire! The 3.0 numerical designation refers to 3 oz of added Colorant. Higher number means more added...lower number, less added
  • Silver Fire N/C is a Mix that has "No Colorant" added.
So glad I asked. As usual. Still giving screen advice to the masses I see!

I will adjust the recipe accordingly. (below)

Unfortunately there is no way I can afford the Earlex. My budget for this, including trim materials is going to be around $250. The Earlex would be 60% of that budget. Looks like the paint alone is going to run about $125. Lowes, Home Depot, Amazon and Michaels. Paint price has gone up about 25% since I last did these numbers. $5 for the strainer and $11 for the squirrel cage. Bout' ~$110 left to buy/ rent the gun and get trim materials (~ $50). I would have to exceed my budget just to buy the Wagner. Renting the Graco seems to be about my only realistic option.

Is this self priming with the PPG? Or will I need to prime first?

New Recipe:

Colorant

50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
14ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
10ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue

Viscosity

Rustoleum Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish - 16oz - ? Link

Reflective
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl - 32oz
Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver - 12oz
PPG Diamond Flat - 16oz (Unfortunately smallest size is a gallon. Annoying that is.)
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post #2683 of 2687 Old 06-15-2019, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I could send you a 2901 Gun / Turbine to use if you cover the USPS Freight ea. way. No most cost than a rental, and it will be the ideal sprayer. Least I could do!


Let's do it right....it might could be /will be your "Forever Screen" ya know?


PS...
When SF is mixed up, it's "quality" exceeds the very best Primer - Paint combos. As long as the substrate is bright white or a1.0+ Gain screen surface, it's get'ter dun time!

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post #2684 of 2687 Old 06-16-2019, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
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I could send you a 2901 Gun / Turbine to use if you cover the USPS Freight ea. way. No most cost than a rental, and it will be the ideal sprayer. Least I could do!


Let's do it right....it might could be /will be your "Forever Screen" ya know?


PS...
When SF is mixed up, it's "quality" exceeds the very best Primer - Paint combos. As long as the substrate is bright white or a1.0+ Gain screen surface, it's get'ter dun time!
That is a stunningly generous offer I have been struggling with a response for. Thank you. I recall you were offering me colorant last time because I was looking at the cost of the paint and struggling with it. First thing is first. I have in-laws here now and my family coming through in a couple of weeks. Trying to get interior painting done before their arrival. Not that easy with my and my wife's physical limitations at this point. I will start collecting the paint locally and see where I am in the next few days.

If I accept I would want to insure it for the return journey. I may cave and just buy it.
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post #2685 of 2687 Old 06-16-2019, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSade View Post
That is a stunningly generous offer I have been struggling with a response for. Thank you. I recall you were offering me colorant last time because I was looking at the cost of the paint and struggling with it. First thing is first. I have in-laws here now and my family coming through in a couple of weeks. Trying to get interior painting done before their arrival. Not that easy with my and my wife's physical limitations at this point. I will start collecting the paint locally and see where I am in the next few days.

If I accept I would want to insure it for the return journey. I may cave and just buy it.
Another option...if your into "cave-in' ". I have a Earlex 3500 w/Hose but no Gun. That unit I can let go for a song (...but no dance...) so purchasing that and a replacement Gun with 1 mm Tip Kit would amount to just over 65-70% of a new Sprayer. But no more.

I also have at least "3" Wagner Control Spray Max Turbines w/Hoses just sitting down below in the Barn collecting Mississippi dust bunnies. They would of course work fairly well with a Wagner Finish Head (1.8mm) My own rig is a Hybrid of a Control Spray Max w/a 20' Hose that is spline-d to a Earlex 15' Hose and Gun. I need the extra power of the CSM when I do really humongous sized screens, and the 2 Hoses together give me a 35' reach. That is great for sticking the Turbine off outside a room and spraying in near blissful quiet. Keeps the Filter cleaner longer too!

Time I gave all the extra gear some loving homes....and since it wouldn't be kosher to sell one's kids for too much........I can spread the love out thinly.

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post #2686 of 2687 Old 06-18-2019, 06:44 PM
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Hi OldSade and MM!

Thanks to MM for such helpful and plentiful advice.

FYI-Home Depot near me has Varathane Ultimate Polyurethane (Water based) "Crystal Clear Matte"

Thank you very much

FURY
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post #2687 of 2687 Old 06-25-2019, 06:22 AM
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Hello Guys,

I am Mario and I live in germany. I bought my first projector as a replacement for our living room TV and while looking for a screen option, I stumbled upon the name "Silver Fire". After little research I found this forum and this thread as the only source of information about it.

The whole idea of not having any screen and just using a clean wall, not needing to mess aroung with different formats etc., seem like a very nice thing. Now I wondered, is there any possibility, to recreate this paint here in germany? I tried to find the needed components, but could not find many of it.

Maybe anyone could and would help me, enjoy this beautiful screen experience?
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