My LED Backlit "Zero Frame" Project - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 50 Old 08-01-2013, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone,

Just wanted to share some pictures of my DIY zero frame project. It's nearing completion and I think it looks great already! A big shout-out to MississippiMan for posting the inspiration and answering a ton of questions along the way. I may not have followed all his recommendations to the letter on the frame, but I'll update the thread when the thing falls off the wall so he can say "I told you so".

The room is a basement with two small windows on the front and the back of the projection area. The goal was to have a 120" screen about 16' from the primary seating area and for it to be backlit with RGB LED lights so that the color could be changed depending on what's going on in the basement (dim white lights for movies and bright color changing LEDs for parties). I did this with the help of a professional contractor here in Cincinnati as I lack the tools and experience to build wood frames and patch drywall. They were also a huge help fishing cable. If those two things don't bother you, it's definitely DIY! For me I guess it was DIWH (do it with help).

My projector is an Epson 5020ub wired via HDMI to my equipment closet where it connects to my HTPC via a Denon AVR 2113ci receiver. The screen is a Sintra board that will be painted this weekend with Silver Fire V2 3.0. At least for the painting I don't plan on deviating at all from the instructions! The LED lights around the frame are the following: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=073-076

Here's the starting point:


It's a wall with a window. Kind of a crappy place for a projector screen...

We ran all the wires (also included fishing ethernet to the main level via that massive hole in the middle) and ripped off the frame around the window:



A box was put into the window and then a piece of drywall to cover it up. Here's the wall with the holes patched and the window covered:



Then I built the equipment rack (it was a standard server rack from Newegg):


Wired the closet for the video and networking (this is pre-receiver installation). Also realized that the Redmere HDMI cables were DIRECTIONAL and then had to completely re-fish the HDMI cable to the projector. Fun!:



Next I installed the projector mount and shot it at the wall to make sure the measurements would work on the frame and then a wooden frame was built on the wall to wrap the LED lights around along with a recessed power outlet for the power supply.




Here's the video I posted in another thread showing the LED lights and their color fading capability (this was before they were secured to the frame, hence the bottom didn't have lights):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhePFaUF8OY

I should have taken more pictures at this point. What I didn't photograph was the wire channel in the bottom right corner where the LEDs and the LED controller's remote came out to the side of the screen. Also, since we put the frame up on the wall instead of gluing it to the Sintra board, we had to now figure out how to get the Sintra up and straight while still allowing it to be taken down for maintenance if needed. The ultimate solution was the following:

- Build a french cleat out of wood that mounted right inside the top part of the frame and was the entire length of the inside of the frame
- Build a matching cleat for the bottom that parted in the middle for where the outlet is
- Secure the cleat to the Sintra using liquid nails
- Place Velcro along the left and right sides of the Sintra to keep them flat against the wall-mounted frame

So far it appears this solution has worked well. The screen is completely level and is secured to the wall. The only issue is that the right velco came off the wood last night and will need to be glued back on.

Here's the screen with the lights on white mode (and dim) after it's wired up to XBMC:



So far feedback has included statements like "that looks unreal!"

The next step will be masking the whole beast off like Dexter kill room and then I'll spray baby spray!

Thanks again for all the feedback I've recieved throughout this process. I'll continue to post updates throughout the painting process and then a final shot once my basement is cleaned up and ready for action!

Dave

(Edited to add video)
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post #2 of 50 Old 08-01-2013, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, after painting the screen I just want to add that the basement will be painted a neutral grey color for light control...

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post #3 of 50 Old 08-04-2013, 09:46 PM
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Looks awesome. Nice job!
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post #4 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 01:29 AM
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WoW Amazing job

Plz post more pictures with different dimming/content/lighting mix's
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post #5 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 01:30 AM
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& if it is not much to ask kindly post a video guide of the howto walkthrough

I believe many will be ultra-interested in having such a beast
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post #6 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 03:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukurkur View Post

& if it is not much to ask kindly post a video guide of the howto walkthrough

I believe many will be ultra-interested in having such a beast

Well it's probably a little late to take a video of the installation process since it's already done but I'd definitely be happy to answer any questions and will post more pics/videos after all the painting is done.

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post #7 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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So the contractors didn't do as good a job as I'd hoped securing the board to the french cleat (I discovered this while masking it to paint). The good news is that this gave me an excuse to get back under the screen to take pictures of the frame under the screen and the wiring of the LED lights.

Here's the frame under the screen where you can see the upper and lower french cleats. This picture has both the wall-side and screen side cleats currently on the wall since I had removed them from the screen. You can also see the LED power supply wiring and the hole in the dry wall where we've placed the power supply.



Here's a close-up shot of the LED control module and the channel where the power and remote receiver go out to the frame:



And lastly, though its not as relevant to a "DIY Screen" thread, here's the equipment closet with the equipment actually installed:



I also realized that the 1.5mm nozzle that I bought to paint was the wrong model for my sprayer. I've got the new one ordered and it should be in today or tomorrow. Once the screen is back up this afternoon I'll mask it again and then hopefully be painting tomorrow or Wednesday! More pictures to follow of that process and the results.

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post #8 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 08:10 AM
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If you are gluing the Cleat to the board, I suggest you use a thin but completely covered coating of adhesive on the Cleat, press it firmly in place, and let it dry for 24 hours minimum
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post #9 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

If you are gluing the Cleat to the board, I suggest you use a thin but completely covered coating of adhesive on the Cleat, press it firmly in place, and let it dry for 24 hours minimum

Thanks. That's good advice, especially since we didn't do the whole frame on the back of the Sintra as you originally prescribed. I had told my contractor to use liquid nails to secure the cleat to the back of the Sintra and then discovered that whatever genius actually did the work used DOUBLE SIDED TAPE. Jesus, I'm glad I discovered that before I painted or it could have been disastrous (120" board with wet paint flopping onto the basement carpet...). Needless to say they're fixing it for free...

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Dave
Highly appreciate your response
Well since a video is too late:D
How about a step by step summary with some especially the fitting part


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post #11 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks. That's good advice, especially since we didn't do the whole frame on the back of the Sintra as you originally prescribed. I had told my contractor to use liquid nails to secure the cleat to the back of the Sintra and then discovered that whatever genius actually did the work used DOUBLE SIDED TAPE. Jesus, I'm glad I discovered that before I painted or it could have been disastrous (120" board with wet paint flopping onto the basement carpet...). Needless to say they're fixing it for free...

Now I cannot speak for Him, but if "The Man Who Stilled The Water" was dispensing DIY Screen making advice, I'm pretty sure he'd tell you that beside sayin' a little prayer, you should use Double Sided Tape to adhere the rest of the Sintra FIRMLY to the Frame. Pieces placed at least every 12"

Personally, I would agree with that assessment, but hey...I'm not in his league. smile.gif

...................but I do humbly try.redface.gif

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post #12 of 50 Old 08-05-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Now I cannot speak for Him, but if "The Man Who Stilled The Water" was dispensing DIY Screen making advice, I'm pretty sure he'd tell you that beside sayin' a little prayer, you should use Double Sided Tape to adhere the rest of the Sintra FIRMLY to the Frame. Pieces placed at least every 12"

Personally, I would agree with that assessment, but hey...I'm not in his league. smile.gif

...................but I do humbly try.redface.gif

So the screen is back up now! Liquid nails was used to adhere the Sintra to the cleats and then a more powerful double sided tape is being used along the vertical frame bars to keep the sides secure (and also help out the liquid nails). Fingers crossed that this is a much more secure solution! It sounds pretty close to what you just recommended at least.

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post #13 of 50 Old 08-06-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by davemex View Post

So the screen is back up now! Liquid nails was used to adhere the Sintra to the cleats and then a more powerful double sided tape is being used along the vertical frame bars to keep the sides secure (and also help out the liquid nails). Fingers crossed that this is a much more secure solution! It sounds pretty close to what you just recommended at least.

I take no credit for divine guidance.

..............all my advice comes from far less lofty climes. biggrin.gif

Not Subterranean though..... eek.gif

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post #14 of 50 Old 08-06-2013, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I take no credit for divine guidance.

..............all my advice comes from far less lofty climes. biggrin.gif

Not Subterranean though..... eek.gif

If you're still in NOLA for the time being, I think technically you're below sea level at least. That might qualify as subterranean depending on where you're sitting wink.gif

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post #15 of 50 Old 08-06-2013, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, two more real quick questions:

1. Can you confirm the order in which the Silver Fire ingredients need to be mixed or does it not matter?

2. I have seen this question a couple times but do I need to sand between coats?

Thanks!

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post #16 of 50 Old 08-06-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by davemex View Post

Also, two more real quick questions:

1. Can you confirm the order in which the Silver Fire ingredients need to be mixed or does it not matter?

Poly / 1/2 req.Water first then / UPW / Silver / Pearl /Gold......in that order in a clean Gallon Can
Colorant components mixed into Water, then added into the combined Viscosity / Reflective mix in the required "ounce" amount to achieve the Gray Level needed
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2. I have seen this question a couple times but do I need to sand between coats?

Thanks!

Usually no, if the spraying goes on correctly and no Texture develops between the 3rd / 4th coat...but if you do sand the 4th coat very lightly, then you go even further toward achieving a virtually glass smooth finish. Two very light Dusters t6opping off such a sanding is all that is needed.

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post #17 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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When mixing the colors before adding them, are you just mixing them in a small bowl with a standard paint stirrer or is their a better way to mix those outside of the 2 gallon bucket?

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post #18 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 01:33 PM
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If your referring to theColorant Tints, yes, you mix them into a small, steep-sided container that's easy to scrape off stuck deposits.

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post #19 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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So after mixing all the paint in that order, I put together my colorant. The colorant was a dark brown. I mixed it into the base and it turned almost a light lavender purple. Is that right? Did I screw up?

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post #20 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 06:15 PM
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I love the pictures you given us so far, can't wait to see the end result. Thanks for sharing! Any way you can snap a picture of your mix as it is now to see what color you're at?
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post #21 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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It's really hard to tell from my crappy cellphone shots. Here's one on the screen and one in the bucket:





I added 3 "drops" of the green paint to the mix to cut the red down but it still looks purple on the wall. It's very very faint so it's hard to tell if it's crappy lighting or if it really is that purple. I've done the first two duster coats, am going to let it dry and then do more in the morning. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks

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post #22 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 06:45 PM
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Looks from the pictures like it might need more yellow, but I'm sure by the morning Mississippi Man will have any changes all sorted out so I wouldn't sweat it..
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post #23 of 50 Old 08-07-2013, 08:15 PM
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The Colorant should look very Dark Brown...almost Black when light isn't shining on it. But mixed into the Base / Viscosity Mix it should run into a Silvery Gray hue. You need to add Liquitex Gold....no more Yellow. The Yellow is too Bright.

Mix 2 0z of gold with 1/2 oz. of water, then add 1 oz of the gold, mix...observe, and continue if needed by adding 1 teaspoon at a time until the mix "Grays up".

Personally, on my LCD Monitor, the mix looks more Silver Gray than it does Purple.

If the mix still pushes into Red, relate such and how much and we'll correct from there.

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post #24 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The Colorant should look very Dark Brown...almost Black when light isn't shining on it. But mixed into the Base / Viscosity Mix it should run into a Silvery Gray hue. You need to add Liquitex Gold....no more Yellow. The Yellow is too Bright.

Mix 2 0z of gold with 1/2 oz. of water, then add 1 oz of the gold, mix...observe, and continue if needed by adding 1 teaspoon at a time until the mix "Grays up".

Personally, on my LCD Monitor, the mix looks more Silver Gray than it does Purple.

If the mix still pushes into Red, relate such and how much and we'll correct from there.

When I added the colorant it was brown but still a bit reddish. I must have waaaay overshot the red. I should have bought better measuring devices. I added all the gold in this morning and swear it still looks purple. Put another coat on the screen to see how it would dry. If it is indeed still purple, what would be the next course of action?

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post #25 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 06:12 AM
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Tears mostly....

I've sent out a plea to PM_Maxxx. He's a "Horse of a different color" in these parts, and you've certainly got a different color.

Meanwhile, your going to need to sand that screen and DO NOT spray anymore coats until you get corrective instructions, lest you have to start completely over because you do not have enough corrected mix to cover.

All be advised, if the Mix looks skewed toward red or blue, don't attempt a wishful coating...wait until it is corrected.

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post #26 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I've stopped for now. I got 2 coats with the original and 2 with the added gold mix. I probably have at least half my paint left. I will lightly sand it tonight and hope we have enough to fix it! eek.gif

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post #27 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I've stopped for now. I got 2 coats with the original and 2 with the added gold mix. I probably have at least half my paint left. I will lightly sand it tonight and hope we have enough to fix it! eek.gif

PB_Maxxx prescribed a bit more green "Green is what you need. Mix 1/2 oz in a couple ounces of water... slowly add 5 or so drops until ur mix loses its purple lean". I'm going to give that a shot tonight and hope that it neutralizes my pretty purple screen.

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post #28 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 02:17 PM
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How about that ???!!!

That is exactly what I was going to suggest had he not intervened. No question about it..... rolleyes.gif

Dude knows how to restore balance to errant SF Mixes, and fur shur yours was heading south on a fast horse.tongue.gif

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post #29 of 50 Old 08-08-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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A little green appears to have done me some good (for once)! The mix is now grey. I sanded and then applied two coats of the corrected paint and now my screen is no longer purple! I think I went a little heavy (trying to cover up the purple) which left some texture. I'm going to let it dry over night, lightly sand it one more time if needed, and then apply two more light coats and then hopefully she'll be done!

Thanks again for the help so far.

LG 65EF9500 /Denon AVR-2113ci / Darbee DVP5000/Definitive Tech SM 350 + Mythos 3 Center + 2 Klipsch RW-12D Subs / Custom 20TB Ubuntu Server + Win 10 HTPC/ Xbox 360 / OUYA / iRule Pro
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post #30 of 50 Old 08-09-2013, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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aaand we're done! Here everything is put back together. Keep in mind there is a window directly facing the screen so there is quite a bit of ambient light. I did expect slightly more ambient light rejection but I guess that's hard with the window pretty much facing the screen. I guess that's what blinds are for. Also the backlighting is set to full brightness in these shots which will not be the case for watching movies.






I'll be painting the room grey later this month but this at least gets the point across for the "DIY Screens" thread smile.gif

LG 65EF9500 /Denon AVR-2113ci / Darbee DVP5000/Definitive Tech SM 350 + Mythos 3 Center + 2 Klipsch RW-12D Subs / Custom 20TB Ubuntu Server + Win 10 HTPC/ Xbox 360 / OUYA / iRule Pro
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