Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 1446 Old 12-09-2015, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fa11ou7 View Post
Sorry for the double post but apparently I can't edit yet.
The website has been doing that for a while now..it's weird.

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I will give this a shot, I was holding it off center to get an idea of what it would look like and it just looked darker all around.
At the edge of a projected image the projected light hits the screen at more of an angle..so it gets partly rejected just like angled incoming ambient light.Whether the light is from a projector a lamp or the sun, the sharper the angle the more it'll get rejected and the straighter it hits the screen (like a source slightly above or behind your seated head) the less it will get rejected and it'll instead get sent mostly toward the seated viewers.
Because light from the projector hits the screen like like a widening cone/pyramid, only the center is super straight..the rest is more and more angled.
The only saving grace is when it's a whole screen and there isn't any brighter surface sharing the image, your eyes tend not to notice that the screen is dimming as it goes toward the sides..Instead your eyes tend to notice the brightness toward the center and as long as the dimming toward the sides isn't too jarring or extreme/fast, they'll ignore it for the most part.

Quote:
I think the issue might be that I don't need an ALR screen at all because the source of any light in the room is either coming from the projector or from ceiling LEDs on the other side of the wall that we are projecting on to.
It sounds like you have been doing fine without one, so you're likely right. A more subtle one might be able to help a little without dimming as much, but that may end up being a needless expense if you're already quite happy with the current screen.
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I'll take some shots and post them tonight when I get home.
I'm looking forward to seeing how this looks. I don't think there are any screenshots showing this particular mix yet.
Quote:
It seemed way to dim, pretty much like it was sucking a good portion of the lumens out of the image. Honestly it didn't even seem to reject light much better either but maybe that was because there is no direct lighting in that room. Hmmm, the ceilings are vaulted so maybe that is why the light colored walls don't seem to be affected by it much, pictures should help.
The larger room will make the light-colored surfaces matter less..they'll do less harm because they're farther away.
The edges of the image/screen don't reject nearly as much light as the center, but even then the 3:1SealGrey isn't a super aggressive mix.
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The lighter wall paint does washout blacks some but color is quite vivid on it.
This is why you might still benefit from a lighter-colored ALR mix, but it sounds like getting an inexpensive surface (without a fight) is a challenge.
Quote:
No, thank you for putting this thread together. I only used a fraction of the two quarts that I bought so if I can get a larger piece of cardboard to paint on I can use it up making a bigger sample. I actually have some sheetrock mud that I could use to smooth the wall out but my wife would kill me if I painted over the wall as it is our main living room. She wouldn't even let me put gaff tape on the wall to frame the screen.
If you can get a big enough piece, try projecting on it so the image doesn't overfill and spill onto anything lighter.
I wonder why hanging a screen (I'm assuming putting some mounting holes in the wall) would be less of an issue than some tape and/or paint that could be removed or painted over..either way while it's there there's going to be a big rectangle on the wall.
I wonder which part she doesn't like.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #692 of 1446 Old 12-09-2015, 07:07 PM
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Well thanks to my double post and this one I will be able to post links/images so I thought I should just comment about what a pain in the rear it is to get images online when you don't have it all set up already.

Also, I think I understand what you were talking about Ftoast when you mentioned that it looks better as a full screen instead of just a piece. I could tell that some of my bias is just from being so used to the blank wall for so long, I think it would look much better if I could do the whole thing.
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post #693 of 1446 Old 12-09-2015, 07:18 PM
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I'm not sure how to add the images since the 'insert image' button doesn't seem to like the google link....

I'll just put them in a google+ link for now, hopefully that works. If you guys know a better way please fill me in.

https://plus.google.com/+PhilJJimene...ts/dh9QTZgw12A
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post #694 of 1446 Old 12-09-2015, 07:28 PM
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I think I got it now...

I have a few more I can add if wanted, it seems to only allow 6.
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post #695 of 1446 Old 12-09-2015, 07:45 PM
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I guess some variety would be good.
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post #696 of 1446 Old 12-10-2015, 05:40 PM
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Exclamation Paint Ratios

Please tell me what "PART" means? 1 Part = 1 oz, cup, quart, or gallon?
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post #697 of 1446 Old 12-10-2015, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lebryant91 View Post
Please tell me what "PART" means? 1 Part = 1 oz, cup, quart, or gallon?
The "part" is scalable to make the math ratios more straightforward, independent of the screen-size.
For example the 2:1GreyTabby could be 28oz metallic and 14oz flat-GreyTabby which would be about enough for a 120"-diagonal screen, OR it could be 2quarts of metallic and 1quart of flat-GreyTabby for a 150"+diagonal screen.

Usually it'll end up being a quart of metallic (which is usually 30oz instead of the full 32oz of a normal quart can) and some fraction of that in flat-grey.
Some examples:
2:1 would be 30oz metallic (the whole can) and 15oz flat-grey.
3:1 would be 30oz metallic and 10oz flat-grey.
4:1 would be 30oz and 7.5oz
5:1 is 30 and 6
...and so on..

For extra large screens you'd get two ~30oz cans of metallic (about 59oz total) and likewise double the amount of flat-grey since you're doubling the amount of metallic.
2:1 now being 59oz metallic and 30oz flat-grey.
3:1 becoming 59oz metallic and 20oz flat-grey.

Despite the relatively small amount of flat-grey used, its usually only a couple dollars extra to buy a whole gallon of inexpensive interior flat paint instead of a smaller size...and you'll likely need the extra flat-grey to give whatever you're making into a screen a quick plain grey coating which gives the mix something dark and flat/matte to stick to. I've found this to work a bit better than painting two coats of mix..instead you paint one coat using just the plain grey (consider giving it a quick sanding for the ever-important smoothness) and then paint just one coat using the mix.
This gives a cleaner-looking result AND uses half as much metallic. Win/win.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #698 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 04:41 AM
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Thank you for your explanation. I can get the answer but I have to study a bit so I'm still cloudy about what you explained.

I was interested in the 18:1 white mixture. Can you please break the numbers down for a 110" diagnal screen?

Thank You
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post #699 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebryant91 View Post
Thank you for your explanation. I can get the answer but I have to study a bit so I'm still cloudy about what you explained.

I was interested in the 18:1 white mixture. Can you please break the numbers down for a 110" diagnal screen?

Thank You
That'd be a can of metallic and 1.6oz-1.7oz of flat white.

A 110" screen should only need around 1quart of mix to cover.
A ~30oz can of either Disney/Glidden metallic (from Walmart) OR a ~30oz can of RalphLauren metallic (from HomeDepot) ..you won't have the metallic tinted at the store, but you should still have them shake all your paints before leaving.
It also helps to give your mix a nice stir-stick stirring right before pouring it into your paint-pan..this both assures it's still mixed thoroughly AND helps get rid of any stubborn bubbles. I usually shake my metallic and flat-grey/white together to mix them and this makes bubbles happen, stirring after hand-shaking is a good idea.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 12-11-2015 at 06:46 AM.
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post #700 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 10:05 AM
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I too am jumping into the DIY projector screen world. I'm using a Epson 2045 that is about 9.5ft away (ceiling mounted) in a fairly light controlled room, but there is still going to be some ambient light (walls are light grey/blue). The screen I am making is going to be about 92-6" diagonal and I plan on building a frame to go around it.

What I'm wondering is what paints I should be using and I was thinking of a 1.0 gain ratio. I was having trouble identifying the recommended paints you listed, could you perhaps provide some model numbers or links to home depot for instance?

Also what suggestions are there for wrapping my frame in a black felt or something non reflective?

My construction would be MDF screen that's custom painted. 2 inch custom frame with black felt (not sure where to get this yet) wrapped around.

Thanks for your time!
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post #701 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 11:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drealit View Post
I too am jumping into the DIY projector screen world. I'm using a Epson 2045 that is about 9.5ft away (ceiling mounted) in a fairly light controlled room, but there is still going to be some ambient light (walls are light grey/blue). The screen I am making is going to be about 92-6" diagonal and I plan on building a frame to go around it.

What I'm wondering is what paints I should be using and I was thinking of a 1.0 gain ratio. I was having trouble identifying the recommended paints you listed, could you perhaps provide some model numbers or links to home depot for instance?

Also what suggestions are there for wrapping my frame in a black felt or something non reflective?

My construction would be MDF screen that's custom painted. 2 inch custom frame with black felt (not sure where to get this yet) wrapped around.

Thanks for your time!
Your 2040 will start around 1000lumens in its dimmest settings, so a 92"-98" screen (being about 25-30ft-square worth of image-size) will leave your darkest image at a blistering 35-40ftL...about 2X brighter than you'd generally aim for in a dark/dim room. A screen with quite a lot lower gain would likely be best.
I'd also suggest a keeping to a grey that isn't a ton lower than the peak-gain because it will still help with wall/ceiling reflections (along with the lower overall gain) and it'll keep a cleaner-looking image that's also more forgiving to paint.

A quart of the Disney/Glidden or RalphLauren metallic (untinted, but still shaken) mixed with 15oz-18oz flat-grey tinted "Seal Grey" should provide a well-behaved screen that will fight surface reflections and lower the projector's brightness closer to that of a good professional cinema.

Alternatively, you could just use plain flat-grey tinted "Veil" which wouldn't quite fight as much room reflection, but it would cost even less and be practically invincible against mistakes in both painting and the surface.

Either way:
-If you're buying from Walmart I'd suggest asking for a gallon of flat interior ColorPlace tinted to "Seal Grey". And grab a quart of Disney/Glidden metallic and have them shake both.
-If you're buying from HomeDepot I'd suggest asking for a gallon of flat interior Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide tinted to "Seal Grey". And grab a quart of RalphLauren metallic (it says silver along the top of the can but you'll be using it untinted) have the store shake them both.
-If you decide to skip the metallic and go for the lighter plain grey you can ask for a gallon of interior flat tinted "Veil" using the same inexpensive ColorPlace or Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide paints.

The ~$10 ColorPlace (Walmart) and ~$12 Glidden Professional UH (HomeDepot) paints show up at their store's respective website, but the colors are usually only available in-store because it'll be tinted right there in front of you..it's rarely available pre-made online.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #702 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Your 2040 will start around 1000lumens in its dimmest settings, so a 92"-98" screen (being about 25-30ft-square worth of image-size) will leave your darkest image at a blistering 35-40ftL...about 2X brighter than you'd generally aim for in a dark/dim room. A screen with quite a lot lower gain would.....
Excellent thank you very much. Any suggestions for the frame? Is there something I can paint with rather than stretching felt or some other non reflective material?
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post #703 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent thank you very much. Any suggestions for the frame? Is there something I can paint with rather than stretching felt or some other non reflective material?
Carl's online sells a black-felt tape which I've heard makes an excellent screen border..it's around $30-45 I think. Maybe lower for a 92"-98" screen.

My only bordered screen is using double-sided black Velcro (almost and inch wide) where I cut off a bunch of squares and stapled then to the wall and then stuck lengths of the Velcro to itself connect-the-dots style. The Velcro looks surprisingly good and was only $6 for each 12ft roll, but the it pulls the tabs+staples right off the wall if I try to remove it.
The velvet tape should be even easier to use and look even better without costing much more.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 12-11-2015 at 01:09 PM.
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post #704 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 02:25 PM
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FToast, first off thank you for all your work and dedication to screen paints and this tread! Great info here!

I am moving into a new house, and want to place a TV above my fireplace in the attached picture. The placement of a TV there would be awkwardly high though, and I don't want to put a TV in a corner or on a different wall. So I are looking to get a drop-down projector screen for the room that will go over the fireplace. I have been reading this thread and Tiddler's thread on painting a retractable screen (sorry I'm not allowed to post links yet). I hope to combine the two to basically use the colors shown in this thread, but with an outdoor-based paint that has more flexibility. Do you think this would work? Would the formulas need to be tweaked, or would the results be pretty much the same?

We will be using this screen both at night and during the day (preferably with lights on and windows open - the windows are north facing). My plan is to go as dark as possible with the paint (looking at the Deep Onyx color), then gain back the brightness with a 3200 white and color lumen projector (Epson EX9200). I know these formulas were made with less lumens in mind, so I was wondering if I should alter them for this kind of projector? Maybe less metallic? The screen would be 120".

Thank you!
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post #705 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 02:41 PM
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BTW, I should mention I do have a spray gun so I'm not too afraid of painting pretty dark.
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post #706 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by komcdo View Post
I have been reading this thread and Tiddler's thread on painting a retractable screen (sorry I'm not allowed to post links yet). I hope to combine the two to basically use the colors shown in this thread, but with an outdoor-based paint that has more flexibility. Do you think this would work? Would the formulas need to be tweaked, or would the results be pretty much the same?
I don't think that will change the formula too much..though I've heard the added mildew/mold resistant ingredients in exterior paints can be unhealthy indoors, and I've heard people report indoor paints working fine on rollup screens.
Quote:
We will be using this screen both at night and during the day (preferably with lights on and windows open - the windows are north facing). My plan is to go as dark as possible with the paint (looking at the Deep Onyx color), then gain back the brightness with a 3200 white and color lumen projector (Epson EX9200). I know these formulas were made with less lumens in mind, so I was wondering if I should alter them for this kind of projector? Maybe less metallic? The screen would be 120".

Thank you!
Less metallic would definitely be a good plan with such a bright projector.
You could probably aim for 0.6gain and still have plenty of brightness while using the projector in EcoLamp.

I would suggest using the color "Obsidian Glass" (usually only available with Glidden paints) instead of "Deep Onyx"..it'll still be very dark, but it will help minimize sparkling or texture which people have mentioned with spraying the deepest blacks.
A 1:1 or 1.5:1 (1.5parts metallic) mix should easily keep you around 20ftL+ in the quieter presets.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #707 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 04:32 PM
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I don't think that will change the formula too much..though I've heard the added mildew/mold resistant ingredients in exterior paints can be unhealthy indoors, and I've heard people report indoor paints working fine on rollup screens.
Thanks for the feedback! I will probably use the indoor paint then.

Quote:
Plenty of brightness while using the projector in EcoLamp.
Do you know how to find the minimum brightness of a projector? I've been searching but can't find any info for the eco mode.

Quote:
I would suggest using the color "Obsidian Glass" (usually only available with Glidden paints) instead of "Deep Onyx"..it'll still be very dark, but it will help minimize sparkling or texture which people have mentioned with spraying the deepest blacks.
A 1:1 or 1.5:1 (1.5parts metallic) mix should easily keep you around 20ftL+ in the quieter presets.
What if I used the projector on full 3200 lumen power, but reduced the metallic to get a screen gain around 0.33 gain to end up around the 20ftL+ range? Then I would have a very black screen for day use, but also with low metallic content to minimize sparkling.

Thank you so much for the response! You've already changed the direction I've been planning for the past 1+ month!
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post #708 of 1446 Old 12-11-2015, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback! I will probably use the indoor paint then.



Do you know how to find the minimum brightness of a projector? I've been searching but can't find any info for the eco mode.



What if I used the projector on full 3200 lumen power, but reduced the metallic to get a screen gain around 0.33 gain to end up around the 20ftL+ range? Then I would have a very black screen for day use, but also with low metallic content to minimize sparkling.

Thank you so much for the response! You've already changed the direction I've been planning for the past 1+ month!
EcoLamp is very often about 70% as bright as Full.

As long as the louder fan-volume isn't a problem and 3D isn't important, that's another valid way to do it.
The color "Granite Grey" is around 0.35-0.37gain in flat.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #709 of 1446 Old 12-13-2015, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
A treated family room and a new JVC...I'm drooling a little in jealousy.

With a 120"-diagonal 16:9 (or did you mean 2.39?) screen slightly under 1.0gain you'll be able to keep 14-20ftL in Eco-lamp with the iris slightly to moderately clamped.
During the brighter times you'll have TWICE as many ftL available if the PJ can actually hit its numbers..so a gentler ALR mix is likely all that'll be needed and will also keep a cleaner image which is a bit more forgiving to paint.

The previously mentioned 3parts metallic mixed with 1part flat-grey tinted-"Icon Grey" should be a good match for a particularly clean image that's able to reject a modest amount of light while also relying on the projector's own horsepower to push through brighter days.

It's been 2 weeks and still don't have the projector - AARGH !! Anyways it gives me time to finish the room. Yesterday I painted the first coat of this Havana Brown color that meets WAF.

http://www.behr.com/consumer/colors/test/N210-7

Unable to find the 5x10 boards locally, so I'll just sand & paint the wall. Craig (AVS) recommends a white screen instead of a grey one for the Rs 500 with 1800 lumens, so in this case can you please tell me exactly what I need for the 120" 16:9 screen that is white with ALR?
I am not very good at math or much of anything else... Thanks
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post #710 of 1446 Old 12-13-2015, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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It's been 2 weeks and still don't have the projector - AARGH !! Anyways it gives me time to finish the room. Yesterday I painted the first coat of this Havana Brown color that meets WAF.

http://www.behr.com/consumer/colors/test/N210-7

Unable to find the 5x10 boards locally, so I'll just sand & paint the wall. Craig (AVS) recommends a white screen instead of a grey one for the Rs 500 with 1800 lumens, so in this case can you please tell me exactly what I need for the 120" 16:9 screen that is white with ALR?
I am not very good at math or much of anything else... Thanks
Well Craig means a white screen in the sense of it being white AND without any metallic or gloss or any other additives. A plain bright neutral white...essentially the most perfectly crisp and artifact-free screen/paint there is.

You CAN make a white or slightly off-white/light-grey which rejects some ambient light, BUT it will not be quite as perfectly clean as a plain white or plain light-grey.

With the JVC being able to get so bright and your room getting treated with darker colors, I do agree that a plain white or plain light-grey would be a good way to go.
It's dirt-cheap, basically impossible to mess up because of how forgiving plain flat/matte paint is, and if you DO decide to try something with metallic you can simply apply right over the flat/matte paint.

If you go to Walmart and tell them you'd like:
-"a gallon of flat interior ColorPlace "LIGHT BASE"..Please add 4ounces or 4Y of KX white-pigment into the gallon can",
it'll only cost about $10 and can be rolled right onto the wall.
That will give a flat/lambertian neutral ~1.0gain screen which should rival any good white screen.

Although this particular paint won't need it, it's still a good idea to try and smooth the wall nicely before painting to have everything prepared for if you later decide to try a mix using some metallic..because that will definitely want a smooth wall.

Otherwise you can try a metallic mix first and simply paint over using the above-mentioned paint if you see artifacts or anything you don't like.
Will you be shopping at Walmart or HomeDepot or are neither available?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #711 of 1446 Old 12-15-2015, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
-"a gallon of flat interior ColorPlace "LIGHT BASE"..Please add 4ounces or 4Y of KX white-pigment into the gallon can",
it'll only cost about $10 and can be rolled right onto the wall.
That will give a flat/lambertian neutral ~1.0gain screen which should rival any good white screen.


Will you be shopping at Walmart or HomeDepot or are neither available?
Do I buy that 4Y or KX pigment separately or will they know what it is and add it in? I will be getting it at Home Depot since I have a 24/7 Walmart and it's always a nightmare for parking.

So last night I finished the first coat of the brown I mentioned (pics).

I will be using your idea of black fabric on the ceiling since I am renting and have popcorn ceilings.

From what I have read, the other Rs 500 owners have had to reduce output brightness due to their high gain 2.4 and 2.8 screens so this 1.0 will be good I suppose. I know Silver Ticket has a 1.0 gain 120" screen but your formulation will save me more than $250 and the possible headache of my cats jumping up and damaging it. Thankfully my dogs aren't so crazy.
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post #712 of 1446 Old 12-15-2015, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Do I buy that 4Y or KX pigment separately or will they know what it is and add it in? I will be getting it at Home Depot since I have a 24/7 Walmart and it's always a nightmare for parking.
They'll know what it is. It doesn't cost anything extra. HomeDepot doesn't call ounces "Y's", they actually call them ounces..so you'll just ask them to add 4ounces of KX into a gallon of interior tint-able, flat light-base. Your choice of what brand paint to use is basically wide open, so you can pay as little as $12 for the Glidden Pro or Behr Pro or anywhere up to $40+ for a different version of those brands.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #713 of 1446 Old 12-16-2015, 02:01 AM
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OK thanks for your help. I will paint the 2nd brown coat right after I sand down the screen area a little, and then off to HD to get the white paint. Hopefully I get the projector soon to test it out and post some pictures.
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post #714 of 1446 Old 12-16-2015, 09:08 PM
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Ftoast Great write up I really appreciate it. I am very new to the world of projectors and screens. I just picked up my first projector an older sanyo plv-z2000. It has a relatively low output at 1200 lumens (most reviews say 400 to 500 lumens in the real world) I am using it in a semi dedicated basement room with minimal to low light most of the time with a 100" screen. I am currently projecting on a matte white wall and the colors do not seem very vivid. Whit low lighting the problem becomes even worse. Hence why I am here looking for screen recommendations. From reading your write up and other recommendations in the posts I am thinking of trying seal grey mixed at 3:1. Just wondering if I am headed in the right direction here.
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post #715 of 1446 Old 12-17-2015, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Ftoast Great write up I really appreciate it. I am very new to the world of projectors and screens. I just picked up my first projector an older sanyo plv-z2000. It has a relatively low output at 1200 lumens (most reviews say 400 to 500 lumens in the real world) I am using it in a semi dedicated basement room with minimal to low light most of the time with a 100" screen. I am currently projecting on a matte white wall and the colors do not seem very vivid. Whit low lighting the problem becomes even worse. Hence why I am here looking for screen recommendations. From reading your write up and other recommendations in the posts I am thinking of trying seal grey mixed at 3:1. Just wondering if I am headed in the right direction here.
If you're okay with the image being a little darker than it is on a bright, white wall the 3:1SealGrey should be a good option.
Otherwise, if you'd prefer keeping a bit more brightness and because your lighting is low most of the time, you could also go with something lighter-colored and a little higher-gain...5:1 (5parts metallic and 1part "Granite Grey") would give a lighter-grey screen with a little over 1.0gain on-axis and even less dimming toward the sides, BUT it won't fight as much light.

If you need to keep brightness about where it is, I'd suggest 5:1GraniteGrey.
If you can stand the image getting somewhat darker, the 3:1SealGrey is a good option which can fight ambient light better.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #716 of 1446 Old 12-17-2015, 01:46 PM
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Just to throw my 2 cents in since I've been working on one of these screens since Sunday. My projector is a ~13,000 hour Optoma HD66 (1,500 hours or so on lamp #3 ). It's projected onto a 16:10 115" screen (wall).

My first attempt was a ~2.2:1 mix of walmart paints tinted to seal gray (a truly medium gray, though most would describe it as a dark gray). The black levels were fantastic, colors and contrasts were good. The screen itself looked good. However, in ambient light my projector choked on it. It couldn't produce anywhere close to an acceptably bright picture. A higher metallic content might have helped.

Back to walmart I went and found that they have a silverscreen color. I applied a ~3.5:1 mix of silverscreen and wow, talk about brilliant white levels. Pure whites practically glowed. Blacks aren't bad either in low light. Color reproduction and black/white level contrast was very accurate with this mix. However, I was still unhappy with the ambient light performance. Everything just looked too washed out.

Last night I went to try Veil, since it's pretty close to being in between Seal Gray and Silverscreen, and the lady mixing the paint mixed up Universal Gray instead (which is in between Veil and Silverscreen). PS - Veil at walmart is Pebble Gray.

I just finished a second coat of 3:1 Universal Gray a little bit ago and so far I think I have a keeper. I haven't got to watch it in low light yet but it's performing far better in ambient light than the other two mixes I sampled. I have been taking pictures along the way so I may post them up later when I'm satisfied with the end result.
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post #717 of 1446 Old 12-18-2015, 06:27 AM
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I'm going to stop at two coats of 3:1 Universal Gray. Some more notes: Walmart's silverscreen tint is considerably lighter than the Behr Silverscreen that was a long time favorite amongst DIYers. The Behr Silverscreen is actually extremely close to Universal Gray (which does seem to be a fairly uniform tint amongst brands). So ultimately I landed on an old school silverscreen with improved gain.

Strangely enough, and for the first time since I've owned the projector, a preset mode looked better than anything I was able to wrangle out of the custom settings. sRGB offered good contrast, fair bright white/deep black levels, and good color reproduction in low light. The blackboard preset offered a brighter picture with better color than anything I was able to come up with on my own in high ambient light situations.

I'm pretty happy with the end result. I have the screen trimmed out with velvet tape and more importantly, my wife is pleased with the aesthetics of it all.
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post #718 of 1446 Old 12-18-2015, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I wonder what the hd66 does differently in those presets that makes the difference.

Thanks for the extensive write-up and color searching.

Once you can post pictures, can you also post some showing the room and where the worst ambient-light is coming from?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #719 of 1446 Old 12-22-2015, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
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I wonder what the hd66 does differently in those presets that makes the difference.
I don't know. That's one of my few gripes about my trusty old Optoma. It doesn't show me what values it's using in the preset modes.

Pictures are hopefully attached.

The entire room is painted in a flat antique white, including the ceiling.

Pic 1: Image projected onto prepped wall
Pic 2: First coat of 1:2.2 Seal Gray (just mixed two quarts together, one 1:2.2 and the other 2.2:1 metallic/flat). Roller marks were visible
Pic 3: Second coat of 2.2:1 Seal Gray. Nice uniform paint, no obvious defects/texture. This was medium ambient light which still looked pretty decent to the camera.
Pic 4: After two coats of 3.5:1 Silver Screen. I got a little sloppy with the painting as I rushed it a little compared to the first go around and I ended up with some noticeable hot spot areas. This picture had a lot of sunlight coming in the windows to the left along with artificial lighting to the right. To my eyes it was a little better than the seal gray in similar lighting but too washed out vs. too dim.
Pic 5: First coat of 3:1 Universal Gray. Roller marks were visible as well as a few areas that didn't dry with complete coverage so I had the sparkly Silver Screen showing underneath. Not a good effect.
Pic 6: Second coat of 3:1 Universal Gray. Some roller marks left on right side of screen but they aren't noticeable unless you're watching from an angle. I'm content to stop here as it's providing good day and night viewing. Lots of artificial light present in this picture.
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post #720 of 1446 Old 12-25-2015, 01:20 AM
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Is there are some variant with EU paint? Most of these paint are not available in europe.
Thanks
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