Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint - Page 25 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 202Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 1446 Old 12-25-2015, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by riddle View Post
Is there are some variant with EU paint? Most of these paint are not available in europe.
Thanks
I believe most/all of these should be available through the Deluxe, Glidden or CIL brand. In the first post with the blue-ish chart there are numbers next to the colors which some places may use instead of the names..like "Seal Grey" might be known as "OONN 25/000" instead. The OONN stays the same and the /000 at the end means it's a neutral shade while the 25/ is the paint's brightness or gain (before adding metallic).
It's a super useful naming system that I wish had more popularity.

The metallic can be harder to find. A good alternative can be finding a water-based pearl or a craftstore which carries the FolkArt metallic paints (they have a nice pearl AND a grey, silver and black metallic which can be used or mixes together) and then mix those with an appropriate color and amount of flat-grey.
The pearl generally works well with the ratios shown but needs a slightly darker color to balance for the pearl's added white tint.
The metallic silver/grey/blacks often need a slightly higher amount of flat added or a smaller amount of metallic used because they tend to have a higher concentration of metallic in those brands.

James_of_AZ has been finding different pearl metallics for folks to use in different regions also.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...son-3600e.html
So that's worth a look either for finding a pearl to use here OR for an entire mix idea as he's been going darker with higher gain recently.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 1446 Old 12-31-2015, 09:29 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Ftoast, thank you for sharing this with everyone.


Have you thought about doing a double sided screen? A thin board with your dark paint on one side and white screen paint on the back. If it is thin enough, it would be easy to take down and switch around with two people. Then you get a perfect daytime screen with the gray, and when you want a extra crisp bright picture for night time movie showings go with the white.


I am pondering the idea myself. A little ingenuity would have to be used for a mounting system, but I really think it would be perfect for a lot of homes. Albeit slightly inconvenient to switch around, but worth it.
H4lfbr33d is offline  
post #723 of 1446 Old 12-31-2015, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by H4lfbr33d View Post
Ftoast, thank you for sharing this with everyone.


Have you thought about doing a double sided screen? A thin board with your dark paint on one side and white screen paint on the back. If it is thin enough, it would be easy to take down and switch around with two people. Then you get a perfect daytime screen with the gray, and when you want a extra crisp bright picture for night time movie showings go with the white.


I am pondering the idea myself. A little ingenuity would have to be used for a mounting system, but I really think it would be perfect for a lot of homes. Albeit slightly inconvenient to switch around, but worth it.
The idea has definitely crossed my mind. It might work making something that flips similarly to an old chalkboard where there's an outer frame following the actual screen/frame along either the top or bottom and halfway up/down the sides and attaching with a single bolt in the middle of the side so the whole thing can be pulled out from the wall and rotated along those bolts and pushed back to the wall by one person.

Basically just two arms (one on each side) bolted to the middle of the screen's side-frame. Then another attachment, like a pull-through dowell could attach each arm to the screen at a different point to keep it steady while pulling away from the wall. You'd loose something at the top, pull the whole thing down like an oven door, loose the secondary arm attachments to allow the screen to rotate, re-fasten the secondary arm attachments to hold the entire thing solid again, then close it like an oven-door and re-attach to the top.
Something like that perhaps.

I love the idea of strong magnetic attachment points for the top and possible secondary arm points..though I'm not sure that's really workable.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #724 of 1446 Old 12-31-2015, 09:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
I'm messing around with the wagner+detail and trying to see how dark yet high-gain things go without issues.
The $50 gun does a really nice job of putting down an even layer without hardly any overspray and basically no mess, but spraying seems to make the entire screen look several shades lighter than I'm used to. The current tester is a 5:1GreyMetal which should be even darker-colored than the 5:1ObsidianGlass panel in one of the outdoor videos, instead I think it's closer to the 3:1GreyTabby. Similarly weird, at that high of a ratio it should be nearing 1.5gain (if it was rolled) but it seems much closer to 1.0gain on-axis.
The worst part is that using the dark color and high metallic still seems to be giving it a grainy appearance even though it isn't giving the same darkness and gain the color and ratio normally would.
I'll have to do some side-by-side comparisons between this sprayed 5:1GreyMetal and the older 5:1ObsidianGlass. Maybe give the sprayed sample a light sanding and one more coat and then try rolling the same mix on half the panel...see if the paint is getting old or weird or something.

Right now I love/hate spraying. :/

EDIT:
Thank goodness I was mostly wrong. It turns out the gain IS closer to where it should be (higher than it appeared) and the gain coupled with that particular room's lighting was largely responsible for making it look lighter-colored.
Also, my first coat went on with too much texture and hopefully I'll be able to blame that for most/all the grainy appearance.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-01-2016 at 08:47 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #725 of 1446 Old 01-01-2016, 09:06 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Thumbs up

thank you for your great thread, Ftoast.

i'm from China and know nothing about paint..
i want to try "a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 12oz-15oz flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" and i'm a little comfused
1. there is a chart for mix choice in your first post ,where every color is flat / matte. While your choice is flat-grey only , does that mean matte color is not an option. Because in delux China web there are only two matte types for grey tebbby OONN 16/000 and delux seems to be the only brand you mentioned and also available in China, so can i use this matte type instead?

2. "UN-TINTED RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden metallic OR a shade of FolkArt/Rustoleum coincides with your flat/matte choice"

does un-tinted means no color ,transparent?
why should use RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden un-tinted while FolkArt/Rustoleum "a shade concides with my flat/matte choice?" (may be my dictionary provide me with wrong explaination, seems transparent color has no shades or here shade means different?)
if i choose grey tebby which shades should i use?
For brands other than RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden FolkArt/Rustoleum ,is there any spec or some ingrediant table (lilke:metal percentage) to make sure my choice of metallic paint functions as close as yours.
Nn Wong is offline  
post #726 of 1446 Old 01-01-2016, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
1. there is a chart for mix choice in your first post ,where every color is flat / matte. While your choice is flat-grey only , does that mean matte color is not an option. Because in delux China web there are only two matte types for grey tebbby OONN 16/000 and delux seems to be the only brand you mentioned and also available in China, so can i use this matte type instead?
In the USA "matte" is usually slightly more glossy than "flat", but not always.
In many other places I've heard "matte" is the same as "flat" and the label matte is used instead of flat.
It sounds like your Delux matte will be the same as my Glidden flat.
Even if they are different, the difference will be very small.
Grey Tabby matte (OONN 16/000) or the slightly lighter Seal Grey matte (OONN 25/000) should work well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
2. "UN-TINTED RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden metallic OR a shade of FolkArt/Rustoleum coincides with your flat/matte choice"

does un-tinted means no color ,transparent?
why should use RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden un-tinted while FolkArt/Rustoleum "a shade concides with my flat/matte choice?" (may be my dictionary provide me with wrong explaination, seems transparent color has no shades or here shade means different?)
if i choose grey tebby which shades should i use?
For brands other than RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden FolkArt/Rustoleum ,is there any spec or some ingrediant table (lilke:metal percentage) to make sure my choice of metallic paint functions as close as yours.
Yes, the untinted RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden will become almost transparent if not mixed with flat/matte-color.
This makes the RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden easier to mix into whatever color you want.
Because the FolkArt/Rustoleum can only be found already colored, you need to balance its color with the flat/matte color to make a specific color.
There are three or four different black/grey/white colors of those metallic and a few different ratios of metallic:matte which makes a lot of testing needed to find how to make all the different colors. I've only tested a couple, so I can only guess.

The FolksArt/Rustoleum is more concentrated, so a 1:1mix (1part FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1part matte-grey) ends up with about the same gain or higher than a 2parts RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden and 1part matte-grey mix.

Which colors of FolkArt/Rustoleum can you get easily?
The 1part SterlingSilver FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1part flat/matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000) mix I painted turned out a bit lighter and higher-gain.
Using 1part FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1.3parts matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000) should make a darker color and lower gain which will look more like the 2:1GreyTabby screen.

Sorry for writing so long. It's probably a pain to translate my rambling.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #727 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 07:48 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
In the USA "matte" is usually slightly more glossy than "flat", but not always.
The 1part SterlingSilver FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1part flat/matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000) mix I painted turned out a bit lighter and higher-gain.
Using 1part FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1.3parts matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000) should make a darker color and lower gain which will look more like the 2:1GreyTabby screen.

Sorry for writing so long. It's probably a pain to translate my rambling.

Thank you again, its very very kind of you .

I went several paint store today,only delux uses 00NN naming system. Nippon uses a different system but after a little search i found no way to covert 00NN colors to Nippon system.
For delux paint, there is a little problem for they dont provide "10/000 grey metal". 07/000 13/000 16/000 20/000 25/000 are all available. And they said the mix process is controled by computer,they can do nothing.

i think i cant directly use the recipe u provided. So i want to make sure i understand your diy concept correctly.

with my goal "2:1GreyTabby screen"

RalphLauren metallic "untinted" 2 and 1 flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" equals to 1part SterlingSilver FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1.3 matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000)

if i change 10/000 to 07/000 deep onyx, i should use less flat/matte more metallic, probably back to 1:1 ratio. Result : darker screen, less gain, better in daylight use.
if i change 10/000 to 13/000, i should use more flat/matte less metallic, 1:1.6 maybe. result : greyer screen, more gain,better in dark room use.
if my metallic paint color is lighter ,more shinning than SterlingSilver , i should add more flat/matte.otherwise,i use less flat/matte.

and a little unit comfusion.
i think you are using USA 1 wet quart = 32 oz = 946 mili-Litre. not UK 1 quart = 40oz = 1136 ml. right?


sorry for bothering u again.
Nn Wong is offline  
post #728 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 08:13 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The idea has definitely crossed my mind. It might work making something that flips similarly to an old chalkboard where there's an outer frame following the actual screen/frame along either the top or bottom and halfway up/down the sides and attaching with a single bolt in the middle of the side so the whole thing can be pulled out from the wall and rotated along those bolts and pushed back to the wall by one person.

Basically just two arms (one on each side) bolted to the middle of the screen's side-frame. Then another attachment, like a pull-through dowell could attach each arm to the screen at a different point to keep it steady while pulling away from the wall. You'd loose something at the top, pull the whole thing down like an oven door, loose the secondary arm attachments to allow the screen to rotate, re-fasten the secondary arm attachments to hold the entire thing solid again, then close it like an oven-door and re-attach to the top.
Something like that perhaps.

I love the idea of strong magnetic attachment points for the top and possible secondary arm points..though I'm not sure that's really workable.
I have an idea in mind... I wont be able to build it for a few months (on deployment). But it should be easy and cheap enough that i think a lot of people will consider it.
H4lfbr33d is offline  
post #729 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
with my goal "2:1GreyTabby screen"

RalphLauren metallic "untinted" 2 and 1 flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" equals to 1part SterlingSilver FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1.3 matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000)

if i change 10/000 to 07/000 deep onyx, i should use less flat/matte more metallic, probably back to 1:1 ratio. Result : darker screen, less gain, better in daylight use.
if i change 10/000 to 13/000, i should use more flat/matte less metallic, 1:1.6 maybe. result : greyer screen, more gain,better in dark room use.
if my metallic paint color is lighter ,more shinning than SterlingSilver , i should add more flat/matte.otherwise,i use less flat/matte.
I've been finding that the darker colors actually need a little less metallic added to reach the same on-axis gain. I think the paint with more white pigment blocks more metallic while the darker paints naturally have less white pigment and allow more metallic to show through.
Everything else you said is correct.
DeepOnyx is especially weird and using "Obsidian Glass" (OONN 13/000) would be safer.

ObsidianGlass OONN13/000 is only a tiny bit lighter than GreyMetal OONN 10/000, so using the same 1:1.3ratio should be alright. I've heard some of the Asian/European paints are very thick, so you might need to slightly water the ObsidianGlass down a little to help it flow more like the rustoleum. You'll probably have to thin BOTH the matte and the metallic if you use FolkArt metallic which is also very thick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
and a little unit comfusion.
i think you are using USA 1 wet quart = 32 oz = 946 mili-Litre. not UK 1 quart = 40oz = 1136 ml. right?
sorry for bothering u again.
Yes, you are right. I'm using 32oz quarts.

It's no problem. I'm just sorry about only being able to guess at most of this. For instance I have no idea how much thinning you'll need to do for the paint to flow nicely but not run or sag on the wall/surface.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #730 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 12:32 PM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
little confused after reading all these pages. looking to do a painted screen in basement theater.


please give me the latests suggested mixes. here is shot of the wall it is going on.


Thank you ..
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Brown walls 1.jpg
Views:	156
Size:	28.8 KB
ID:	1157490   Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls 3.jpg
Views:	149
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	1157498  
chicago66 is offline  
post #731 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
little confused after reading all these pages. looking to do a painted screen in basement theater.

please give me the latests suggested mixes. here is shot of the wall it is going on.

Thank you ..
Will the room be kept pretty bright or fairly dark during most viewing?

About what size screen are you aiming to have?

What projector are you using?

Are you a big 3D fan or a casual 3D-user at most?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #732 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 02:41 PM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
room will be dark most of time.. occasional sports event with low light away from screen.. photo below gives better idea.. screen size is about 150" projector is sony 4k . casual 3d user . third pic down shows other half of basement which is pool table . ping pong ect.


thank you
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls 3.jpg
Views:	113
Size:	29.2 KB
ID:	1157746   Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls left side open.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	24.6 KB
ID:	1157754   Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls left side 2 from stairs.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	37.8 KB
ID:	1157762   Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls left looking to right.jpg
Views:	126
Size:	31.5 KB
ID:	1157770   Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls front looking to rear.jpg
Views:	124
Size:	38.5 KB
ID:	1157778  

Click image for larger version

Name:	brown walls left side looking to right.jpg
Views:	110
Size:	35.3 KB
ID:	1157786  
chicago66 is offline  
post #733 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
room will be dark most of time.. occasional sports event with low light away from screen.. photo below gives better idea.. screen size is about 150" projector is sony 4k . casual 3d user . third pic down shows other half of basement which is pool table . ping pong ect.

thank you
You've got a lot of things in your favor; the room situation is pretty good and that Sony starts around 1050lm/1350lumens (eco-lamp/full-lamp) and hardly loses any of that brightness when mounted farther back..so a 150"/67ft-square screen will be plenty bright at 1.0-1.2gain even in eco-lamp.

Between the occasional 3D movie, the mostly dark viewing, and the want for a 4K projector to look as clean/clear as possible..I'd recommend starting with a bright neutral white.

The white I've been using has been:
-"ColorPlace brand, flat, interior, light-base, with 4ounces/4Y of KX/white-pigment added to the gallon at the store.

This gives a very bright natural white that is perfectly clear and artifact free while also being very forgiving to paint..and it was about $10 for the gallon at walmart. You can ask for the above quoted part and they should know what you want.

Paint this onto the screen area (likely needs two coats over the black) and try it both in the dark and with some sports with the lights you'd like on..leaving the projector in Eco-lamp. KEEP THE UNUSED LEFTOVERS from the gallon...you might need a couple ounces later.

The paint should work great in the dark and well with some lights on, but if you would prefer more light-rejection during sports you'll want a mix painted over this smooth white surface anyway and you'll use the leftovers too..so starting with the flat interior light-base with 4extra ounces of KX added to the gallon will be needed either way.

While you're at walmart grabbing a gallon of the above mentioned paint, ask if they have the Disney/Glidden magnificent metallic nearby..it's one of the better and easier to use inexpensive locally available metallics.
If you try the plain screen and decide you'd prefer a little extra light-fighting ability, get two quarts of the DisneyGlidden metallic and mix them both together along with 2.5oz-3oz of your bright white.
This should give a very bright screen that will also fight some of the sideways incoming light from the game section of the room.

Will you be rolling or spraying the paint?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-03-2016 at 05:47 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #734 of 1446 Old 01-02-2016, 10:00 PM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
will be rolling.. was at HD tonight and was just talking with paint guy.. he mentioned RL is the whitest he knows of.
chicago66 is offline  
post #735 of 1446 Old 01-03-2016, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
will be rolling.. was at HD tonight and was just talking with paint guy.. he mentioned RL is the whitest he knows of.
He was probably talking about a pre-made white..a "grab-and-go" can of white paint which often has a bit of either warm or cool tint and a touch of off-white to help it hide dirt.

The light-base, on the other hand, is used for a starting platform for all light colors so it needs to be pretty neutral and bright to start while also having a little extra room in the can for additional tint..many times if you ask for something white to be color-matched they'll almost always use light-base..now you'll simply be taking that already bright and neutral base and adding some extra KX/titanium-dioxide (one of the brightest and most neutral white pigments available).

HomeDepot sells RalphLauren tintable metallic for about $22/quart or $50/gallon that is a good alternative to the DisneyGlidden metallic if you prefer HomeDepot over Walmart.

I'd still suggest starting with the simple flat tintable light-base and seeing if you have any problems with that.
If you decide you need more ALR, painting over the smoothed white surface will be better in your case than painting over the black wall would've been anyway.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #736 of 1446 Old 01-03-2016, 07:04 AM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
thanks for all he input.. I have a contrators account at HD. I am there almost every other day so.. easier to do than walmart. IS there a specific code or name for the RL tintable. I tried to look it up on line and it comes up simply as the silvers..


Thanks again..
chicago66 is offline  
post #737 of 1446 Old 01-03-2016, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
thanks for all he input.. I have a contrators account at HD. I am there almost every other day so.. easier to do than walmart. IS there a specific code or name for the RL tintable. I tried to look it up on line and it comes up simply as the silvers..

Thanks again..
It's the same metallic tintable base being used, but online HomeDepot only sells it with tint already added to it (which will make it too dark in your case). In the store they sell it only "untinted" and allow you to choose the tint OR simply buy it without any.

Just a heads-up, there's a tintable silver base and a tintable gold base...you'll be using the silver base (which is actually more transparent than anything if you don't mix it with something or tint it).
Buying a whole gallon is almost the same price as buying two quarts, so that may be preferable if you decide to experiment or want a backup amount in case something goes wrong.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #738 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 06:52 AM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
thanks for the info. wow.. I put up the metallic tintable and really noticed specs of light reflection. Not sure if it is better than the start RL white for my needs though.. Then again.. I have to put up the second coat today.. thanks for you help..
chicago66 is offline  
post #739 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
thanks for the info. wow.. I put up the metallic tintable and really noticed specs of light reflection. Not sure if it is better than the start RL white for my needs though.. Then again.. I have to put up the second coat today.. thanks for you help..
You didn't just roll plain tintable-metallic over the black wall did you?
Mixing the tintable metallic with a tiny bit of flat-white/light-base and putting it over a smoothed white surface helps it look cleaner and less sparkly.

Though, if you did end up doing something different than recommend and like the results I'll gladly steal any information you're willing to share.

Can you list what in all you did so far to the screen/wall?

Also, unless you're painting over a very different-colored surface, two coats isn't necessary needed and likely won't change much..so if you aren't happy with how it looks it can be better to tweak the mix of the next coat instead of painting a second coat of the same thing. If that's still an option.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 01-04-2016 at 07:29 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #740 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 07:36 AM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
yep.. painted it right over the existing brown. wall my mistake..


ok so I will prime the wall white and try this again.


I used tintable RL with 3 KXL tint added to the quart that I got. Shown on the right side of the photo. on the left side of the photo is straight RL white .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	two screens.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	23.5 KB
ID:	1160634  
chicago66 is offline  
post #741 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 11:34 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
yep.. painted it right over the existing brown. wall my mistake..

ok so I will prime the wall white and try this again.

I used tintable RL with 3 KXL tint added to the quart that I got. Shown on the right side of the photo. on the left side of the photo is straight RL white .
Wait, don't paint anything yet.

When you say tintable RL with 3KXL do you mean RL light-base or RL silver metallic?

By 3KXL do you mean 3/384'th or 3oz (it'll say on the sticker they put on top of the can)?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #742 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 11:42 AM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
ok.. sorry for confusion..

here is what is on the right side of the screen. . The RL metallic grey (quart) and added in 3 oz of the kx pigment. they now use code kxl at home depot which I understand is the white pigment.
chicago66 is offline  
post #743 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
ok.. sorry for confusion..

here is what is on the right side of the screen. . The RL metallic grey (quart) and added in 3 oz of the kx pigment. they now use code kxl at home depot which I understand is the white pigment.
There's two weird things about that; those cans are usually only meant to hold about 1.5oz extra and can sometimes be overflowing by 3oz (you likely got lucky there..sometimes it gets messy), and HomeDepot doesn't often let you choose your own tint for those (I'm betting you're on good terms with them or maybe they didn't realize, lol).

Anyway, I meant to mix 3oz of flat-white/light-base PAINT with the metallic..not 3oz of concentrated pigment which is more like mixing an entire quart of white paint into the metallic. I also said to mix 3oz of flat-lightbase with 2quarts of metallic (figuring 1quart wouldn't quite be enough to coat the 150" screen) so that'd be 1.5oz of flat-LightBase added to 1quart of RL-metallic (no other tint added to the metallic...just some paint from another can).

Also, the above ratios are assuming you'll be using tintable flat-LightBase with 1ounce of KXL added to the quart OR 4ounces of extra KXL added to the gallon.

HOWEVER, if your RLmetallic used on the one side of the screen is looking too sparkly when projected on, the above suggested mix will look worse..it'll be higher-gain and a little darker off-white/light-grey.

If I'm being confusing, don't hesitate to ask for a clearer answer..I tend to ramble.
If you can project onto your current split-screen..how does each half look in the dark and in the lighting you'll be using it with?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #744 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 12:31 PM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
ok I think I got it.

thanks
chicago66 is offline  
post #745 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 01:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
ok I think I got it.
thanks
If at all possible, let me know how the two current versions you already have look when projected on in the two lighting conditions you'll be using.

If the plain white looks good with brighter/sports content with the limited lights you'd normally use while watching with company over, the white will be nicer in many ways than something using metallic.

If you want quite a lot more light-fighting ability for sports, a slightly darker mix might work better than the 3oz-white into 2quarts untinted RLmetallic..because that mix is very light-grey and relies more on high peak-gain to fight light.

It'll be better to know what you do and don't like with the current paint before trying something else. That way you'll know which direction to go..if darker is better or would be worse.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #746 of 1446 Old 01-04-2016, 01:17 PM
Member
 
chicago66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 162
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 11
will do .. thanks
chicago66 is offline  
post #747 of 1446 Old 01-05-2016, 01:50 PM
Member
 
DonRSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Lots of information in this thread.
1st time projector buyer here (got one a week ago).
I am still putting the image on my grey wall, but the image is washed out during the day. No direct light on the projector or screen, just ambient light. I do have a few questions, if any of you would be kind enough to answer

Do I have to paint the wall or I buy a cheap projector screen (120") and paint over that?

What mix of paint will be the best for a lit up living room? I will use the projector as an everyday living room tv. When I put the image on the grey wall, its not a pretty site during the day. I assume I need a black screen.

Thank God I didn't drop $650 on an Elite Screen & saw this thread.

PSN: DonVCorleone
Xbox Live: DonRSD


The U / NY Mets / NY Giants / Miami Heat
DonRSD is offline  
post #748 of 1446 Old 01-05-2016, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonRSD View Post
Lots of information in this thread.
1st time projector buyer here (got one a week ago).
I am still putting the image on my grey wall, but the image is washed out during the day. No direct light on the projector or screen, just ambient light. I do have a few questions, if any of you would be kind enough to answer

Do I have to paint the wall or I buy a cheap projector screen (120") and paint over that?

What mix of paint will be the best for a lit up living room? I will use the projector as an everyday living room tv. When I put the image on the grey wall, its not a pretty site during the day. I assume I need a black screen.

Thank God I didn't drop $650 on an Elite Screen & saw this thread.
I think painting directly onto the wall tends to be cheaper and can be easier at the larger sizes over 100"-110". Painting onto a smooth screen works too as long as it's either tight enough not to sag as the roller leans on it a little or has something firm behind it to hold it still...spraying works fine without support holding the screen firm, but I'm guessing you'll be rolling?

What projector will you be using? Are you a big 3D fan?
That and the size are the biggest deciders for what gain to aim for.

For deciding what color to go with, darker fights more light but makes a bigger risk of the screen looking textured or dimmer while lighter looks cleaner and will be brighter off-axis bit will be less aggressive against light.

Do you have any idea what color the wall is right now? Would you prefer a brighter image than the wall is giving?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #749 of 1446 Old 01-06-2016, 05:26 PM
Member
 
DonRSD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 83
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonRSD View Post
Lots of information in this thread.
1st time projector buyer here (got one a week ago).
I am still putting the image on my grey wall, but the image is washed out during the day. No direct light on the projector or screen, just ambient light. I do have a few questions, if any of you would be kind enough to answer

Do I have to paint the wall or I buy a cheap projector screen (120") and paint over that?

What mix of paint will be the best for a lit up living room? I will use the projector as an everyday living room tv. When I put the image on the grey wall, its not a pretty site during the day. I assume I need a black screen.

Thank God I didn't drop $650 on an Elite Screen & saw this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I think painting directly onto the wall tends to be cheaper and can be easier at the larger sizes over 100"-110". Painting onto a smooth screen works too as long as it's either tight enough not to sag as the roller leans on it a little or has something firm behind it to hold it still...spraying works fine without support holding the screen firm, but I'm guessing you'll be rolling?

What projector will you be using? Are you a big 3D fan?
That and the size are the biggest deciders for what gain to aim for.

For deciding what color to go with, darker fights more light but makes a bigger risk of the screen looking textured or dimmer while lighter looks cleaner and will be brighter off-axis bit will be less aggressive against light.

Do you have any idea what color the wall is right now? Would you prefer a brighter image than the wall is giving?
My wall is a light grey color. Doesn't really show good blacks during the day.
I have an Epson 2045 (from Best Buy). We watch 3D & I would like that option for when I need it.

How do I decide what type of black I need or the gain I need?
I will paint a 120" screen on the wall.....but where did the OP buy that $8 panel from? Would rather NOT paint the wall.

Im a total newb with projectors & screens, so Im sorry for the non-expert questions

PSN: DonVCorleone
Xbox Live: DonRSD


The U / NY Mets / NY Giants / Miami Heat

Last edited by DonRSD; 01-06-2016 at 05:35 PM.
DonRSD is offline  
post #750 of 1446 Old 01-06-2016, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,566
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2683 Post(s)
Liked: 874
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonRSD View Post
My wall is a light grey color. Doesn't really show good blacks during the day.
I have an Epson 2045 (from Best Buy). We watch 3D & I would like that option for when I need it.

How do I decide what type of black I need or the gain I need?
I will paint a 120" screen on the wall.....but where did the OP buy that $8 panel from? Would rather NOT paint the wall.

Im a total newb with projectors & screens, so Im sorry for the non-expert questions
The gain you'll need is found by knowing your projector and screen-size and then compensating for things like 3D use and the likelihood that you prefer using Eco-lamp with that projector whenever possible since it can be louder than some.
Your projector starts around 1100lm/1600lumens (Eco/Full) in the dimmer more accurate settings and has a great ability for bright 3D.
Dividing that ~1100lumen quieter brightness by a 120" size (almost 43square-feet) gives a still super-bright 25.6ftL on a 1.0gain surface.
For reference, a good commercial theatre runs around 14ftL and your grey wall likely puts you at 15ftL-18ftL right now when you are using Eco-Lamp.
Aiming for the dimmest mode to hit 18-20ftL will keep you about as bright as you are right now and give a good amount of headroom for 3D and lamp-aging.
That'd be a 0.7gain surface at 120" or a lower gain at a smaller size.

With the gain being on the lower side it's easier to use a darker grey and still have the paint turn out smooth and clear when projected on..the bigger you spread the gain (going higher) and the color (going darker) the more likely you are to see problems happen even from tiny little flaws in the surface or paintjob.
Choosing a color that's natural gain is about half that of your screen's peak-gain gives a really clean image that fights light more subtly.
Choosing a darker one around 1/3 of the screen's peak-gain can give a nice balance of light-fighting and still decent odds of it looking clean.
A darker 1/5 or more surface gets really aggressive against light, but drastically increases the odds of showing texture if the paintjob didn't go well and it'll dim more noticeably if you view from the side.
Aiming for a color with a natural gain/reflectivity around 0.25-0.35 should be great for a 0.7gain screen at 120" and the screen will look a decent ways darker-colored than your wall.

I (the OP) bought the panel from HomeDepot, but it's only 4'x8' which limits it to a normal 98"-100" screen OR a 110" screen with the top/bottom 3inches cropped off. Finding a panel for a full 120" can be more difficult and generally pushes the price closer to $80-150....unless you want to build a screen using a 4.5x8 or 5x8 sheetrock panel (which will be cheap but more brittle, obviously).

Do you think you'd prefer the bigger 120" screen at a higher cost or requiring more careful moving or using the wall?
Or would you prefer shrinking down closer to 100" and possibly moving the seats forward a foot or two?

For these different sizes using that 1100+lumen projector I would aim for:
120", 0.7gain-peak and 0.25-0.35gain-color
110", 0.6gain-peak and 0.20-0.30gain-color
98", 0.5gain-peak and 0.16-0.25gain-color

Using the rolling instructions on the very first post in this thread, I would buy a gallon of either Glidden or ColorPlace(walmart brand) flat interior tinted "Seal Grey" and pour about 1quart into a separate container to mix with about 8oz of water and use that for the first coat..let it dry a few hours and then shine a light sideways onto it to check if any areas could use a quick sanding.

Then I would buy a quart can of either RalphLauren metallic silver "untinted" (from HomeDepot) OR a quart can of Disney/Glidden magnificent metallic "untinted" (from Walmart) and have the store shake it up but not add any tint.
Then in a separate container I'd mix the whole can of metallic together with 14oz-15oz of "Seal Grey" from the gallon container (NOT anything that's been thinned with water)..and use the same first-post rolling instructions to roll a coat using this mix.

Watch the video below the instructions too if possible. I like to make sure the roller has a good amount of paint on it for each row because I use practically no pressure while painting even if the surface is up on a wall. Even while loading the roller with paint I never pressure it into the pan..it's all just letting the roller do the work. ..'cause I'm lazy...and it helps avoid roller-marks and texture.

That was a tower of text, feel free to ask questions.
Gadget_girl likes this.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Screen Section

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off