Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 1442 Old 01-08-2016, 04:57 AM
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Bottom line: my church needs an ALR screen badly as the video is almost impossible to read (mostly slides of hymn lyrics) due to sunlight flooding in from some glass block windows on a side wall.

Even at night the contrast isn't what it should be because of lighting in the room.

What paint mixture would give me the best visibility and the best gain?

The curves on the first page don't make sense to me as the "recommended" paint for high ambient light seems to have the least gain, or perhaps I'm just reading it incorrectly.

The screen is almost never used in a darkened room, and is typically viewed from quite a distance away.

The first thumbnail shows the image at its absolute best - dark outside and a minimum of light in the room; most Sundays it looks like the second.
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post #752 of 1442 Old 01-08-2016, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Bottom line: my church needs an ALR screen badly as the video is almost impossible to read (mostly slides of hymn lyrics) due to sunlight flooding in from some glass block windows on a side wall.

Even at night the contrast isn't what it should be because of lighting in the room.

What paint mixture would give me the best visibility and the best gain?

The curves on the first page don't make sense to me as the "recommended" paint for high ambient light seems to have the least gain, or perhaps I'm just reading it incorrectly.

The screen is almost never used in a darkened room, and is typically viewed from quite a distance away.

The first thumbnail shows the image at its absolute best - dark outside and a minimum of light in the room; most Sundays it looks like the second.
I agree an ALR screen could help some, and the presentation could help maybe even more. The idea I understand is to be inspirational with the sunrise backgrounds and such but all that really brings the ANSI contrast to its worst. White letters on a light yellow background on a light colored screen with lots of ambient light is stacking the deck against you.

The problem you will have with a gain ALR screen will be your wide seating locations. If you get the center looking better the side seats will suffer.

How many lumens is the projector? What is the screen size? What is the current screen? What settings or presets are you using of the projectors?
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post #753 of 1442 Old 01-08-2016, 07:35 AM
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Very informative thread.

Can you please suggest paint for a dedicated(windowless) media room?

I have Epson 8350 Projector at about 16' from the wall, projecting an image of about 159" diagonally (139" x 77").

Image is currently projected on the plain wall(textured and light beige color). I have noticed that from my seating distance of about 17' I don't see any problems with the texture on the wall when the image is projected and hence don't see a huge need to sand the wall smooth. Color reproduction can improve significantly if I paint the wall though.

Thanks a lot in advance.
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post #754 of 1442 Old 01-08-2016, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Bottom line: my church needs an ALR screen badly as the video is almost impossible to read (mostly slides of hymn lyrics) due to sunlight flooding in from some glass block windows on a side wall.

Even at night the contrast isn't what it should be because of lighting in the room.

What paint mixture would give me the best visibility and the best gain?

The curves on the first page don't make sense to me as the "recommended" paint for high ambient light seems to have the least gain, or perhaps I'm just reading it incorrectly.

The screen is almost never used in a darkened room, and is typically viewed from quite a distance away.

The first thumbnail shows the image at its absolute best - dark outside and a minimum of light in the room; most Sundays it looks like the second.
In addition to what BUD was saying above, I have to ask;
would a dimmer image be okay?..because any current ALR screen is going to result in some dimming at the angle your front/side seats are from the screen.
..and, is the projector ceiling mounted or being used on a rolling cart somewhere low?

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Originally Posted by sainig View Post
Very informative thread.

Can you please suggest paint for a dedicated(windowless) media room?

I have Epson 8350 Projector at about 16' from the wall, projecting an image of about 159" diagonally (139" x 77").

Image is currently projected on the plain wall(textured and light beige color). I have noticed that from my seating distance of about 17' I don't see any problems with the texture on the wall when the image is projected and hence don't see a huge need to sand the wall smooth. Color reproduction can improve significantly if I paint the wall though.

Thanks a lot in advance.
About what color are the walls/ceiling/floor right now?
Can they be painted with dark colors or partly covered in dark fabric like curtains along the two side walls closer to the screen?
If you can treat the room like that OR if you really like the current image and would simply like a little more accurate color-balance and more brightness, I would suggest getting an:
"inexpensive gallon of interior, flat, tintable Light-Base" (which is exactly what you can tell the store) AND tell them you'd like:
"4ounces or 4Y of white pigment or KX added to the gallon" (which costs $0 and will help give the brightest and most neutral white).

A larger amount of texture can still show at that distance when it's been highlighted by a high-gain or ALR screen (instead of a naturally bright interior flat paint that just uses white/KX pigment). If your walls and ceiling are light-colored and will stay that way and you are bothered by reflected light from the image washing back onto the screen, you'll want to give the screen area a really quick sanding (just to knock down any pointy spikes on some bumps) then spend $10-15 on a 4-or-5gallon bucket of "ultralight drywall compound". This specific compound can be spread over your bumpy area like whipped cream and you simply drag something smooth and flat (like a wide putty knife) across it while it's fresh/wet to make sure it's on there good and there isn't a ton of extra. You'll basically be filling in the gaps between the bumps. Let it dry thoroughly and then give the area another quick sanding and marvel at how fast the compound sands smooth while the bump-peaks act as guides for your sanding to be flat/level.
It's dusty and costs a good $15, but there's practically no way your screen won't get noticeably smoother from it..and the stuff sands crazy fast.

Then I'd use something pretty light-colored and high-gain to keep brightness up at that monster size while fighting some of the wall/ceiling image reflection.
I'd suggest buying a whole gallon of the flat-grey you'll use with the metallic so you can first pour 2quarts into a separate container, add about 14-16oz of water into the 2quarts, and roll that onto the smoothed wall following the weird rolling directions in the first post of this thread..the paint may run, so protect the area below where you're painting (I like using tape and cut-open trash bags if I don't have regular plastic handy).
Then after that's dried for a few hours you can apply the mix of metallic and your grey (with no water..running in this mix would be very bad) once again following the rolling instructions from the first post of this thread.

Walmart and 2quarts of their Disney/Glidden magnificent metallic (shaken but no tint added) and ColorPlace flat-grey options would be a little cheaper at $40 altogether, but HomeDepot and a gallon can of their RalphLauren tintable silver metallic (shaken but no tint added) and Glidden pro/professional flat-grey options aren't a lot more expensive at around $60 altogether.

In a separate container, mix 9oz of flat-grey"Veil" with 2quarts of metallic (either 2cans of Walmart/DisneyGlidden metallic or half a gallon of HomeDepot/RalphLauren metallic) which should give you a bright and a little forgiving mix that can subtly fight against the light-colored walls/ceiling reflections.

I would suggest darkened walls/ceiling and plain bright Light-Base +KX painting the screen over smoothing and metallic+grey painting the screen.
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #755 of 1442 Old 01-09-2016, 06:15 AM
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Basically the second photo shows what it looks like now - any improvement over that is what I'm going for.

The projector is an older ceiling-mounted 4:3 NEC NP1150 with a rated output of 3750 lumens and at this point we've got it maxed out for brightness and contrast while still throwing an image that looks something like the original on the monitor of the PC driving it. We have no need for 16:9 as the screen is usually used for slides and the occasional photo, not usually for video and even then letterboxed 4:3 is fine.

The team making the slides has chosen some better combinations of background and text color off and on, but even with good high contrast selections it's not much more legible than what I posted. I suspect brightness isn't really as important as contrast.

The current screen is a normal white Da-Lite; I haven't measured it to find its size but am guessing 10' - 11' diagonal extrapolating from the size of the sound absorbent panels adjacent to it.

If an ALR screen wouldn't help that would be great to know, too.

I don't think a brighter projector is in the budget anytime soon but if that's the only solution, we may just have to deal with people struggling to read the screen for a while, at least until 105" TVs become affordable. ;-)

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post #756 of 1442 Old 01-09-2016, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Basically the second photo shows what it looks like now - any improvement over that is what I'm going for.

The projector is an older ceiling-mounted 4:3 NEC NP1150 with a rated output of 3750 lumens and at this point we've got it maxed out for brightness and contrast while still throwing an image that looks something like the original on the monitor of the PC driving it. We have no need for 16:9 as the screen is usually used for slides and the occasional photo, not usually for video and even then letterboxed 4:3 is fine.

The team making the slides has chosen some better combinations of background and text color off and on, but even with good high contrast selections it's not much more legible than what I posted. I suspect brightness isn't really as important as contrast.

The current screen is a normal white Da-Lite; I haven't measured it to find its size but am guessing 10' - 11' diagonal extrapolating from the size of the sound absorbent panels adjacent to it.

If an ALR screen wouldn't help that would be great to know, too.

I don't think a brighter projector is in the budget anytime soon but if that's the only solution, we may just have to deal with people struggling to read the screen for a while, at least until 105" TVs become affordable. ;-)
I would suggest you try an experiment and get back to us.

Find or make something about the shade of gray shown in the picture below labeled P2 if you paint a piece of cardboard that will work. Nail it to a pole or something so you can lean it up on the screen and see what the image looks like. Ideally a neutral gray about that shade should help. Make sure any paint you get is flat sheen.
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post #757 of 1442 Old 01-09-2016, 08:38 AM
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Hi Ftoast, sorry to bother you again.also forgive my confusing English...

i painted a screen last week, the first coat was good ,while the second coat was a disaster.
I definitely picked a wrong metallic paint.the one I used is a smell paint and very likely not water-based.the paint contains aluminum dust but it's a anti-rust paint. the two paints don't mix so my screen ended up with a lot of silver spots.

last week I was in a hurry and yesterday I did a little search for my next screen.it's frustrating.
when I type metallic paint in China's biggest online market. results are mostly spray paint to repair car scratch. like when I search "metallic" in rustoleum website.
when I type water-based metallic paint , there are very little results,and only for garage kit,it's 6 dollars 35ml,too costy.

do you have any photo of the metallic paint, I think the Chinese name of metallic paint is not directly translated from it's English name, so maybe when I show the paint sellers some photos, they will know what I am looking for.

also I want to ask some questions to find the right product
1.metallic paint really contains metal?
2. are car paints metallic paint .i think metallic paint s are used to increase gain. some Chinese seller call their car paint" metal glitter paint" ,which sounds a similar function paint.
3.are we talking about varnish paint .
4.any product on Amazon to buy , if not allowed to post here,please pm me.
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post #758 of 1442 Old 01-09-2016, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
do you have any photo of the metallic paint,
Ralph Lauren tintable silver metallic:



Disney / Glidden tintable metallic:



Rustoleum Sterling Silver metallic:



Folk Art Sterling Silver metallic:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
also I want to ask some questions to find the right product
1.metallic paint really contains metal?
All the metallics I've used contain mica. The ones that contain metal are often too reflective and look sparkly or glittery when mixed with dark paint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
2. are car paints metallic paint .i think metallic paint s are used to increase gain. some Chinese seller call their car paint" metal glitter paint" ,which sounds a similar function paint.
Many car paints have metallic (either metal or mica). But they are usually oil-base instead of water-base and they can be really thin and runny.

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Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
3.are we talking about varnish paint .
Varnish is usually a clear top layer to protect the surface underneath. The only Varnish metallic I'm seeing is fingernail paints...so I'd say no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nn Wong View Post
4.any product on Amazon to buy , if not allowed to post here,please pm me.
http://www.amazon.com/RALPH-LAUREN-S.../dp/B000GLHWAO
http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Met.../dp/B003EELMY2
http://www.amazon.com/Folk-Art-662-M.../dp/B003W0A90G
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Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #759 of 1442 Old 01-12-2016, 03:29 PM
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lots of great info thanks Ftoast
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post #760 of 1442 Old 01-13-2016, 09:03 AM
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I printed your reply and the pictures that you posted below to take to HomeDepot . Will start this project on the weekend.

Ftoast you have been extremely helpful, thanks a lot!

I will post the before and after pics.
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post #761 of 1442 Old 01-16-2016, 10:21 AM
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ok again I want to say thank you for the help. ok.. so I went with the below paint RL brilliant white and did NOT add any metallic. I this point just looking to get some good contrast and pic on the screen.. before I did the RL I was throwing the picture on a wall with a beige paint .. tan eggshell.. this was the wall in the basement before the build.. I had to say.. it produced a great pic.. almost better than what the RL brilliant white is giving me.. I think this sounds crazy.. but the pic on the screen with the RL brilliant white is almost washed out at higher brightness. have to keep the sony at around 55 % brightness to have good contrast.
contrast seemed better with the tan/beige eggshell paint from behre. does this sound crazy or make any sense at all?
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post #762 of 1442 Old 01-16-2016, 10:24 AM
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here are shots of the old wall used as screen and new one being painted with the RL
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post #763 of 1442 Old 01-16-2016, 01:39 PM - Thread Starter
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ok again I want to say thank you for the help. ok.. so I went with the below paint RL brilliant white and did NOT add any metallic. I this point just looking to get some good contrast and pic on the screen.. before I did the RL I was throwing the picture on a wall with a beige paint .. tan eggshell.. this was the wall in the basement before the build.. I had to say.. it produced a great pic.. almost better than what the RL brilliant white is giving me.. I think this sounds crazy.. but the pic on the screen with the RL brilliant white is almost washed out at higher brightness. have to keep the sony at around 55 % brightness to have good contrast.
contrast seemed better with the tan/beige eggshell paint from behre. does this sound crazy or make any sense at all?
Does the Sony look a little too bright even using Eco-Lamp on the plain bright-white?

How do sports look with the usual lights at the usual levels you'd have them at...washed-out or surprisingly decent?

The beige eggshell would have a bit of directional gain from the gloss and darker-than-white surface, so that's not weird at all.

Depending on how bad that washout from those lights is on sports, it sounds like Glidden "Veil" or the darker Glidden "Granite Grey" in a 5:1 mix (6oz of Glidden flat-grey paint mixed with a quart-can -29.5oz- of "untinted" DisneyGlidden or RalphLauren metallic....or 12oz flat-grey mixed with 2cans of metallic) would keep you at the present brightness but deepen your lights-on blacks a decent ways compared to the beige and give a more balanced color accuracy than the beige as well.

Sorry I keep flip-flopping on this, I just don't want to leave you with something too dim or too grainy.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #764 of 1442 Old 01-16-2016, 11:40 PM
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The idea has definitely crossed my mind. It might work making something that flips similarly to an old chalkboard where there's an outer frame following the actual screen/frame along either the top or bottom and halfway up/down the sides and attaching with a single bolt in the middle of the side so the whole thing can be pulled out from the wall and rotated along those bolts and pushed back to the wall by one person.

Basically just two arms (one on each side) bolted to the middle of the screen's side-frame. Then another attachment, like a pull-through dowell could attach each arm to the screen at a different point to keep it steady while pulling away from the wall. You'd loose something at the top, pull the whole thing down like an oven door, loose the secondary arm attachments to allow the screen to rotate, re-fasten the secondary arm attachments to hold the entire thing solid again, then close it like an oven-door and re-attach to the top.
Something like that perhaps.

I love the idea of strong magnetic attachment points for the top and possible secondary arm points..though I'm not sure that's really workable.
How about 2 separate screens. Screen 1 is white and mounted permanently on the wall for night viewing. Screen 2 is a ambient light rejecting screen on the front and black on the back and covers the white screen during the day. It could lift up from the bottom something like an old one piece garage door, so when it is up the black side is directly over the white screen covering the lighter colored ceiling.
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post #765 of 1442 Old 01-17-2016, 06:14 AM - Thread Starter
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How about 2 separate screens. Screen 1 is white and mounted permanently on the wall for night viewing. Screen 2 is a ambient light rejecting screen on the front and black on the back and covers the white screen during the day. It could lift up from the bottom something like an old one piece garage door, so when it is up the black side is directly over the white screen covering the lighter colored ceiling.
Huh..that would be like 3 birds with one stone.
Has anyone made a really low-profile flip-up screen? I saw one with a really neat GIF before but can't remember who made it.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #766 of 1442 Old 01-17-2016, 07:42 AM
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ftoast thanks for the up date... if I do not care about ambient light.. just want good contrast in a dark light controlled room... the basement... what would you recommend.. I might just put up a flat screen for normal light viewing and leave the big screen for movies only... yep I am flipping back and forth.. thanks for the help


I am going to try glidden flat gray with the RL metallic.. so what would the ration be.. thanks
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post #767 of 1442 Old 01-17-2016, 08:57 AM
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Huh..that would be like 3 birds with one stone.
Has anyone made a really low-profile flip-up screen? I saw one with a really neat GIF before but can't remember who made it.
How about this idea... Build a wooden box a little wider and higher than your screen and maybe 6" or so deep. Have a rectangle hole cut in the front of the box the size of your desired screen and cover the front around the opening with black material. Take two screens a little longer than needed and glue/stitch them together end to end to form a loop. Put 2 round tubes with some grip added to them inside the box on each side with the screen placed on the tubes so they are pulled tight (perhaps springs on top and bottom of one tube to keep the tubes pulling the screen tightly). Put an electric motor on 1 tube and a switch on the side of the box. When you the press the switch the tube spins pulling the screen material around, depress the switch when the entire view inside the frame is entirely white screen or entirely darker screen.

As for the swing up screen I think it would work if the top of the wall mounted screen frame was robust enough to support the hinges for the second frame. The top swinging screen would need to be lightweight yet rigid, perhaps the frame could be built with 1" square aluminum (it's a shame they don't make big screen sized plastic tables). If the screen can be stapled on then 3/8" wood lathe can be attached around the perimeter of the aluminum frame (not sure how you guys mount fabric screens). The black side would be easy, just a light piece of paneling, cardboard, etc covered with something black and screwed on the back.

Damn my brain... Now I have an idea of a bookcase that opens to reveal a hidden screen. Half the bookcase raises up above the screen, the other half lowers below it.

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post #768 of 1442 Old 01-17-2016, 03:16 PM
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ok tried the glidden veil with metallic 5:1 ratio. I noticed the blacks are a little darker but overall the white is still the best.. gray screen makes whites looke gray white.. going back to the white.. question is would adding metallic to the white add anything. . on a side note the picture looks best at 50%.
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post #769 of 1442 Old 01-17-2016, 05:10 PM
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You guys have convinced me to try this! But I need a recommendation on the mixture.
I just purchased the Epson 5030 and my original screen location plans have changed and I want to try a painted screen on the actual wall.

This is going in the basement which has daylight windows. I don't want a completely dark room when entertaining for sporting events, but will control lights for movie watching. Viewing will be mixed: sports, movies (occasional 3D) and possibly some light PS4 gaming. I am going with a 120" screen (I think), viewing from 13' and throw is about 14-14.5'.

Currently I have Sherwin Williams Gateway Gray paint on the wall and the picture was surprisingly good (but it was not great by any means) even with light coming in from the sides and bottom of the blinds on the window that is just inches from, and shines light on, the screen. I will treat this window and the other windows will not directly affect the screen.
So, what would be the recommended mixture?
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post #770 of 1442 Old 01-18-2016, 02:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
ok tried the glidden veil with metallic 5:1 ratio. I noticed the blacks are a little darker but overall the white is still the best.. gray screen makes whites looke gray white.. going back to the white.. question is would adding metallic to the white add anything. . on a side note the picture looks best at 50%.
The original suggestion was a high-gain metallic+white mix. It deepens blacks a little (like the 5:1Veil, but less) and it keeps the brightest overall picture of all the metallic mixes..brighter than white for most seats with a pretty ideal mounting/seating position while far off-axis brightness is dimmer than plain white and brighter than other metallic mixes.
That'd be something like the previous 1quart of metallic plus 1.5oz of flat-white paint OR 2quarts of metallic and 3oz of flat-white paint.
..paint, not KX tint/pigment by the way.

Is the 5:1Veil dimmer than your like, or just making you aware that it's grey when the image is partly on it and partly on a plain white? If you're still painting half the screen instead of the whole thing, it can break the effect of the screen's gain to some extent..testing the grey+metallic will look best either as a whole screen or with the grey at the center rather than the side.

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Originally Posted by murph101 View Post
You guys have convinced me to try this! But I need a recommendation on the mixture.
I just purchased the Epson 5030 and my original screen location plans have changed and I want to try a painted screen on the actual wall.

This is going in the basement which has daylight windows. I don't want a completely dark room when entertaining for sporting events, but will control lights for movie watching. Viewing will be mixed: sports, movies (occasional 3D) and possibly some light PS4 gaming. I am going with a 120" screen (I think), viewing from 13' and throw is about 14-14.5'.

Currently I have Sherwin Williams Gateway Gray paint on the wall and the picture was surprisingly good (but it was not great by any means) even with light coming in from the sides and bottom of the blinds on the window that is just inches from, and shines light on, the screen. I will treat this window and the other windows will not directly affect the screen.
So, what would be the recommended mixture?
Normally with that projector and use and size I'd recommend a pretty high gain (around 1.3) so you can get a bright image with Eco-Lamp and keep it bright for 3D, but if the plain grey already looks pretty nice and you want to, a more modest gain (around or below 1.0) should keep similar brightness as what you have while allowing your screen-color to go a bit darker while still keeping a clean image.

For the higher-gain lighter grey I'd suggest a 6:1 "Granite Grey".
For something closer to your current brightness (or darker depending on the position) and a darker color that can fight more light I'd suggest the 3:1SealGrey....the "1" in either case being the flat-grey.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #771 of 1442 Old 01-18-2016, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Normally with that projector and use and size I'd recommend a pretty high gain (around 1.3) so you can get a bright image with Eco-Lamp and keep it bright for 3D, but if the plain grey already looks pretty nice and you want to, a more modest gain (around or below 1.0) should keep similar brightness as what you have while allowing your screen-color to go a bit darker while still keeping a clean image.

For the higher-gain lighter grey I'd suggest a 6:1 "Granite Grey".
For something closer to your current brightness (or darker depending on the position) and a darker color that can fight more light I'd suggest the 3:1SealGrey....the "1" in either case being the flat-grey.
Thank you FToast. So just to clarify, is the "6" a "flat, tintable Light-Base?" (white pigment or KX)?
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post #772 of 1442 Old 01-19-2016, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by murph101 View Post
Thank you FToast. So just to clarify, is the "6" a "flat, tintable Light-Base?" (white pigment or KX)?
The "6" would be the metallic while the "1" would be the flat-grey ("Granite Grey" in that circumstance).
The color "Granite Grey" is something you can simply tell the person working the paint counter to mix into an inexpensive gallon of either ColorPlace or Glidden or Delux brand interior, flat paint...and it'll show up right in their tinting system.
Typical prices for the inexpensive interior flat gallon are between $10-15 for the ColorPlace or Glidden brands.

Because the quart can of either RalphLauren OR Disney/Glidden metallic doesn't actually have a full 32oz (more like 29.5oz) you'll end up mixing together a can of the metallic and almost 5oz of flat-grey"Granite Grey".

If your surface isn't already white or grey you'll have plenty of extra interior flat-grey to give it a coating which you can also thin with water this one time (in a separate container so you don't thin the whole thing).
Once you have a smooth and plain grey surface that's plenty dry you can give it a quick doublecheck to make sure it's smooth and sand it a bit by hand if it isn't, then paint a coat of the mix onto it...and that's it.

You can use the plain grey coat for some practice at the rolling instructions in the very first post of this thread if you want since they can also help this first coat go on smoothly which might mean you won't have to sand anything at all. That's also why thinning this plain grey coat with about 20%water can help..the metallic mix can't be allowed to run or sag, but the plain coat beneath it can run/sag all it wants as long as it dries smooth.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #773 of 1442 Old 01-23-2016, 11:18 AM
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thought I would post some pics.. These are taken with and with out some ambient light from overhead 4 inch cans ect. the paint on the right is a mix 5:1 Glidden veil gray with RL metallic. one in middle is simply a beige that use to be on the walls and looks pretty good for plain old wall. one on left is the RL brilliant white only. In my effort to try and get more contrast by trying the glidden and RL lost the nice white.. even with the few lights on the white looks better. going back to all white.


Is it better to use just a straight white.. in situation where ambient light is no concern. Do we want to add metallic to the white if the room is dark enough.. in other words don't really need a gain.. just more contrast. would be nice..


thanks
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post #774 of 1442 Old 01-23-2016, 04:21 PM - Thread Starter
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When the room is dark enough, the only benefit the special mixes really can give is the ability to lessen reflections from light-colored walls/ceiling where the image's own light can reflect back and wash itself out.

The ALR mixes will be brighter when put in the center spot (until you move far enough to the side yourself).
Earlier it sounded like you were saying the plain white was a little too bright, but it sounds like you prefer that brightness..but I could be misunderstanding what you said before.

When you ask about getting more contrast, do you feel like the image is getting some washout or are you wishing the projector itself offered higher contrast?

For a screen to fight washout without losing brightness/whites it'll need added gain.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #775 of 1442 Old 01-23-2016, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
thought I would post some pics.. These are taken with and with out some ambient light from overhead 4 inch cans ect. the paint on the right is a mix 5:1 Glidden veil gray with RL metallic. one in middle is simply a beige that use to be on the walls and looks pretty good for plain old wall. one on left is the RL brilliant white only. In my effort to try and get more contrast by trying the glidden and RL lost the nice white.. even with the few lights on the white looks better. going back to all white.


Is it better to use just a straight white.. in situation where ambient light is no concern. Do we want to add metallic to the white if the room is dark enough.. in other words don't really need a gain.. just more contrast. would be nice..


thanks
When you are testing white against gray you cant calibrate your projector for both at the same time. Gray takes more lumens. If you have the brightness set correct for the gray the white will look washed out, if the white is correct the whites in the gray will look too dark. Not to mention when you have two different levels of brightness the brighter one will mess up your perception of contrast on the other. In fact it messes up your camera in the same way.

Bud
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post #776 of 1442 Old 01-23-2016, 08:32 PM
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ok here is what I was saying. when I turn the brightness up on the projector it washes out the contrast. even when contrast is all the way at 100 percent. I turn the brightness down to 50%. and bam there is the contrast back.. does that make sense.. I am talking about the white screen with no ambient light.. Bud16415. I understand what you are saying.. but I have to say... the gray was not looking that good to me.. the whites just were not true white. I guess the more I paint the more I do understand the trade offs now between a gray and white screen.. now I am looking to turn the brightness up on my projector and keep the contrast all the while using a white screen... looking for the paint that would help that request.. thanks again all.
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post #777 of 1442 Old 01-24-2016, 03:45 AM - Thread Starter
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In what way does turning Brightness up washout the contrast..is it causing near-white to crush into white (over-exposing highlights), or is it making the projector raise its own blacks up to more grey, or is it causing more reflections around the room which end up washing the image again?

I don't really subscribe to the calibrate for each type of screen philosophy in this case since the aim was for the grey screen to have enough gain to appear as bright as the white (at least on-axis) and what I suggested ended up falling short.

There are at least three things that can help the grey screen if you're interested and one thing that'll help any screen.
That any-screen thing would be painting the ceiling sections near the screen in darker colors which will help avoid probably the biggest cause of reflections besides the somewhat glossy beams.

The three things that can help the grey screen appear less dull are:
1. Paint the center section instead of the side..that's where most of the brightness will be.
2. View it by itself without the white segment, the white segment having a brighter spot at the center will also break most of the illusion and make you more aware of the grey screen's non-uniform brightness..without the illusion being broken the eyes are very forgiving of subtle non-uniformity.
3. Add more metallic. Something like a 9:1 ratio instead of the 5:1 may hit the brightness you want...maybe.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #778 of 1442 Old 01-24-2016, 04:28 AM
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I agree if you want to do a side by side between a wide dispersion 1.0 gain unity white and a gray with a much tighter dispersion that has been raised back up to a 1.0 gain the comparison would be much more fair samples then should be hung together sharing the common center of the screen as the higher gain gray could show a warm spot as well.

I didn’t feel from looking at the photos the two samples were at the same gain.

I have projected vivid whites off a coal black wide dispersion screen with a gain of about .1, so it is a myth that gray is in any way going to darken whites into a gray white when properly illuminated.

Bud
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post #779 of 1442 Old 01-24-2016, 07:19 AM
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Thank you for the feed back guys... let me explain further yes.. the brightness when I turn it up starts to washout. I would say overexposing highlights. .. I will try and post some pics later to show what I mean.


ok.. so another question.. what is the benefit, in a light controlled room, of doing a screen that is not white.. but rather gray..


thanks
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post #780 of 1442 Old 01-24-2016, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
Thank you for the feed back guys... let me explain further yes.. the brightness when I turn it up starts to washout. I would say overexposing highlights. .. I will try and post some pics later to show what I mean.


ok.. so another question.. what is the benefit, in a light controlled room, of doing a screen that is not white.. but rather gray..


thanks
It sounds like you're leaving the contrast setting too high while turning up the brightness setting.
Normally you'll want to adjust the brightness setting using a simple test pattern so it'll be juuuust high enough that you aren't crushing dark-greys/shadows into black but not any higher (or else you'll end up needlessly lightening your deepest black)..you set it so you can see shadows details but aren't turning the blacks grey.
Then you'll want to set contrast juuuust low enough %using a similar test pattern) that you aren't crushing highlights into white but no lower (or else you'll be needlessly dimming the projector)..you set it so you can see bright details without turning them white when they should be a super light grey on a white background or something.

In a light-controlled room (where reflections are minimized by dark-colored surfaces) the grey screen can be used to tame an overly bright projector..but you're using a large enough screen that few projectors would ever be overly bright.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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