Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint - Page 46 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1351 of 1449 Old 10-04-2017, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Spoiler!
Brookstone has made some cool inexpensive projectors before, and that ~$300 price has my attention. Thanks for pointing this PJ out.

The bad news:
The ultra short throw's extreme (and upward) angle means NO painted screens can add a significant amount of gain...not with metallic, nor pearl, nor glass, poly, or any combination of those.

The good-ish news:
A painted screen can still work, it just won't be able to boost gain which means you'll have to stick toward light shades of flat-finish grey to keep a bright image (or white, depending on screen-size and your brightness preferences). At 80" you probably won't want to go darker than the color "SnowField" or "Universal Grey".
A light-grey screen/paint can still help blacks and contrast look a little better, especially if the rest of the wall around the screen itself is white...this can make a helpful optical illusion where the grey screen can appear a little darker-colored than it would if the rest of the screen-wall was a similar grey or any darker color.

An UltraShortThrow will want a nicely smooth wall/surface in order to look its best.
Your screen-size does make it pretty easy to cut down a $10-$15 sheet of ThriftyWhite, woodglue some 1x3 poplar boards to its back, then you could have a really smooth surface to paint and even mount some LED lights behind for that cool glowing backlight effect (which can also help make contrast appear better).

If you have a bit higher budget, you might want to look at the new ShortThrow light-fighting screen material from carlofet.com although I'm not sure if it'll help with an UltraShortThrow or just ShortThrow. Manufactured screens like this can add gain by using very special micro-shaping and internal lensing that paint cannot. Most UltraShortThrow screens cost a lot (around $800-1500), but the Carl's material is quite a ways below that so it might just squeeze into budget...and samples from them are around $1 if you decide it's worth checking out.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 10-04-2017 at 06:12 AM.
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post #1352 of 1449 Old 10-04-2017, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The good-ish news:
A painted screen can still work, it just won't be able to boost gain which means you'll have to stick toward light shades of flat-finish grey to keep a bright image (or white, depending on screen-size and your brightness preferences). At 80" you probably won't want to go darker than the color "SnowField" or "Universal Grey".
A light-grey screen/paint can still help blacks and contrast look a little better, especially if the rest of the wall around the screen itself is white...this can make a helpful optical illusion where the grey screen can appear a little darker-colored than it would if the rest of the screen-wall was a similar grey or any darker color.

If you have a bit higher budget, you might want to look at the new ShortThrow light-fighting screen material from carlofet.com although I'm not sure if it'll help with an UltraShortThrow or just ShortThrow. Manufactured screens like this can add gain by using very special micro-shaping and internal lensing that paint cannot. Most UltraShortThrow screens cost a lot (around $800-1500), but the Carl's material is quite a ways below that so it might just squeeze into budget...and samples from them are around $1 if you decide it's worth checking out.
I kind of figured that was the case but thanks for confirming. I looked at Black Diamond and Elite Screens Aeon CLR screens but they're in the $1-3k range which is overkill for a $199 projector. I seen the Carl's screen before but it appears to be more designed for short throw projectors with less of an angle than a UST. I looked at the SnowField and Universal Grey colors you suggested and they seem nearly white. I know the projector is only 200 lumens but from the examples I seen it's bright enough where it's washing out some of the color and details. That's why I was looking for a darker screen, to tone that down and for deeper blacks. I was thinking of either Saturn Gray or Grey Tabby in color with eggshell sheen. It would be interesting to see how the projector does with the same color as your paint mix but without the silver metallic. I have a feeling that it should work well because 200 lumens at 18" should be brighter than a 1000 lumens projector at +10 feet.

The Brookstone Big Shot Ultra Short Throw Smart Projector is a no-brainer at $199 for a second room, it's on sale now - typically sells for $299. There's nothing on the market that has it's features even at 3-5x the cost. That's not to say it's the end all be all of projectors but for the price/feature value it's hard to beat.

Feature List:
  • Built in Android w/about 5GB of free storage for apps
  • Auto focus correction
  • Auto keystone correction
  • LED (20,000 hours life)
  • DLP w/1280x720 resolution (720p)
  • Built in 2x8 watt JBL speakers with bass boost subwoofer
  • Ultra short throw (60" at 13" from wall, 80" at 18", 100" at 25", 120" at 30")
  • WiFi
  • USB input
  • 3 HDMI inputs
  • RCA subwoofer out
  • 3.5mm audio out

Last edited by Lucid69; 10-04-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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post #1353 of 1449 Old 10-05-2017, 12:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Eggshell finish can have the same kinds of problems as metallic, pearl, or poly, except the problems are usually worse with eggshell. Eggshell gets its added gain from its slightly glossy shine..which is very directional (so it doesn't work well with UltraShortThrow projection) and the eggshell finish will be less forgiving to paint with than flat-finish because it'll highlight small imperfections.

A projector's brightness/lumens are measured at a longer throw for standard projectors and a shorter throw for UST projectors, so the UST isn't any brighter just because it uses a shorter throw-ratio...it's brighter because it's likely a little above its claimed lumen spec while the LG and many others fall short of their claims. It also might be using a brighter gamma setting along with a clipped/overexposed contrast and color setting to give a less accurate and less detailed BUT brighter-looking image.
These are things people can easily see once they know to look for them, but I've seen more than one YouTube reviewer getting fooled.

I'm not saying it isn't a good projector (it sounds pretty nice, particularly at that sale price), but I don't want you or anyone else to get duped into unrealistic expectations, believing it'll be better than it actually is because of some accidentally wrong information given from inexperienced reviewers.
Gamma tricks and clipping can be used with most displays to make any of them appear brighter...it's the real-world peak brightness of white, red, green and blue (at acceptable accuracies) that really matters.
These can be roughly compared by eye pretty easily, but the reviewer needs to know about it and then actually bother to do it (which isn't difficult and it only takes a minute or two).

If you have an empty space of white wall that you can try projecting onto (once you've got the projector), you can keep moving the projector back until you find exactly how big it can go on the white wall (likely spilling the image all over) while still giving enough brightness for you. If you can measure the image's width at that size, I should be able to tell you what shade of grey can provide about the same amount of brightness on an 80" diagonal screen.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 10-05-2017 at 12:36 AM.
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post #1354 of 1449 Old 10-05-2017, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Eggshell finish can have the same kinds of problems as metallic, pearl, or poly, except the problems are usually worse with eggshell. Eggshell gets its added gain from its slightly glossy shine..which is very directional (so it doesn't work well with UltraShortThrow projection) and the eggshell finish will be less forgiving to paint with than flat-finish because it'll highlight small imperfections.
Good info here, thanks. From what I've read most were recommending eggshell as a middle ground because it's in between Satin and Matte/flat. But based on what you've stated it doesn't appear to be a good choice for UST projectors. From what I've read low gain screens are recommended for UST. Well unless one invests $1-3k for one of those screens specially designed for UST.

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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It also might be using a brighter gamma setting along with a clipped/overexposed contrast and color setting to give a less accurate and less detailed BUT brighter-looking image.
I think the cause is because the projector is doing little to no processing of the projected image. From what I saw at the store the only adjustment is a "vivid mode" which increases brightness and contrast. One can calibrate the color, tint/hue, and brightness/contrast if using a PC as the video source. I don't know if the same can be done with an Android app/hack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I'm not saying it isn't a good projector (it sounds pretty nice, particularly at that sale price), but I don't want you or anyone else to get duped into unrealistic expectations, believing it'll be better than it actually is because of some accidentally wrong information given from inexperienced reviewers.
I'm not expecting an amazing projector for $199, it's 720p after all. The real selling point of this projector is that it's an all in one system: Android (apps) + good strong/usable audio + UST. The closest projector I could find with these key features was the Sony LSPX-P1 at $1k which is 5x the cost of the Brookstone Big Shot projector. For the price and the all in one features I think it's ideal place is in a spare room or bedroom for casual viewing and/or gaming. The projector can also be used solely as a speaker for general room audio (radio/audio streaming/etc.) which is a nice touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
If you have an empty space of white wall that you can try projecting onto (once you've got the projector), you can keep moving the projector back until you find exactly how big it can go on the white wall (likely spilling the image all over) while still giving enough brightness for you. If you can measure the image's width at that size, I should be able to tell you what shade of grey can provide about the same amount of brightness on an 80" diagonal screen.
I have a feeling the ideal screen size for this projector will be in the 70-80" range given the manufacture recommended range of 60-100". It's 720p so one doesn't want too large of a screen unless they're going to be sitting a good clip away from the screen. My unit arrives next Tuesday so I'll be able to report back then on those details.

Looks like the projector at this price was a hot deal since they're out of stock until early next month.
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post #1355 of 1449 Old 10-06-2017, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
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Good info here, thanks. From what I've read most were recommending eggshell as a middle ground because it's in between Satin and Matte/flat. But based on what you've stated it doesn't appear to be a good choice for UST projectors. From what I've read low gain screens are recommended for UST. Well unless one invests $1-3k for one of those screens specially designed for UST.


I think the cause is because the projector is doing little to no processing of the projected image. From what I saw at the store the only adjustment is a "vivid mode" which increases brightness and contrast. One can calibrate the color, tint/hue, and brightness/contrast if using a PC as the video source. I don't know if the same can be done with an Android app/hack.


I'm not expecting an amazing projector for $199, it's 720p after all. The real selling point of this projector is that it's an all in one system: Android (apps) + good strong/usable audio + UST. The closest projector I could find with these key features was the Sony LSPX-P1 at $1k which is 5x the cost of the Brookstone Big Shot projector. For the price and the all in one features I think it's ideal place is in a spare room or bedroom for casual viewing and/or gaming. The projector can also be used solely as a speaker for general room audio (radio/audio streaming/etc.) which is a nice touch.


I have a feeling the ideal screen size for this projector will be in the 70-80" range given the manufacture recommended range of 60-100". It's 720p so one doesn't want too large of a screen unless they're going to be sitting a good clip away from the screen. My unit arrives next Tuesday so I'll be able to report back then on those details.

Looks like the projector at this price was a hot deal since they're out of stock until early next month.
I found a Brookstone store at the mall that had a couple in stock.
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post #1356 of 1449 Old 10-06-2017, 03:17 PM
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I found a Brookstone store at the mall that had a couple in stock.
My local Brookstone was sold out so I had to order it online. I checked the projector out a few weeks ago at the store when it was $299 but decided to wait for a sale. Didn't expect it to drop to $199 though.
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post #1357 of 1449 Old 10-23-2017, 10:21 PM
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If you have an empty space of white wall that you can try projecting onto (once you've got the projector), you can keep moving the projector back until you find exactly how big it can go on the white wall (likely spilling the image all over) while still giving enough brightness for you. If you can measure the image's width at that size, I should be able to tell you what shade of grey can provide about the same amount of brightness on an 80" diagonal screen.
After giving this some thought I decided to go with a Silver Ticket 92" screen. Was originally going to put the screen at the foot of the bed about 13' away but decided to put it at the side of the bed with the screen being 7'-9' away from the viewing spot. From what I've read ultra short throw projectors need a smooth surface to avoid showing imperfections of the projection surface. While I could make my own screen, the cost would be nearly the same after paint, equipment, and materials. Likewise it won't be as smooth as a tension screen - well at least considering I'm a noob at making screens so bound to have imperfections on the first attempt. Likewise sub $200 for a delivered screen isn't breaking the bank for an overall better finished product, at least if I'm the one creating it. lol

As for the Brookstone Big Shot projector it's a solid purchase for $200. The audio from the unit is great, no need for another audio source if used for casual viewing. My only complaints are with it not having tint/hue/brightness adjustment (have to make those adjustments at the source video feed -> PC), no timed turn off (I use a WiFi plug adapter to solve this), and fan noise at low volumes (it uses a small fan - would have to replace with larger fan or add another fan - half speed but same CFM), fan doesn't stay on after it's shut off since it uses LED for light source. Though I will say that the color calibration of the unit is very good and for most doesn't need any tweaking. But I'm a tweaker so it bothers me a bit and the only solution is to use a PC as the source to resolve my tweaking fixation.

Otherwise it's a great projector for it's price/limits. For 720p the quality is really good. In comparison to 1080p I would say that foreground content is close to 1080p quality. But background (depth of field) content is clearly softer vs. 1080p. I'll take that difference giving the low price and the fact that the key point with projectors is large screens/viewing angle. And in the bedroom at the distances/screen size I mentioned it nails that. Would I use such a device in a dedicated home theater room, probably not. But I wouldn't be suffering too much if I did and my wallet would thank me. Most people over extend and get a nice video projector/TV and then forget about the audio. In this case, using the savings to get a good 5.1 audio system would offer more bang for buck vs having the 1080p resolution, especially if one is on a budget. It's a shame they're no longer selling the Brookstone Big Shot, hope they decide to upgrade it to 1080p and offer it again. Even at double/triple the sale price ($400-600) it would be a winner in the ultra short throw market.

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post #1358 of 1449 Old 01-25-2018, 05:10 PM
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Anyone in the UK been able to source paints that would work for this project?
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post #1359 of 1449 Old 02-27-2018, 07:54 AM
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I just bought a viva bright GP100 (not the projector in the pic) and I want to put up a screen but I dont have allot of extra.
I am seeing several things here about panting an MDF panel.
What have you guys found as the best paint to offer the best color reproduction?

I included some pics to give you an idea of what I have now this is just projecting onto a grey wall in my townhome.
Thank you for any help.
BTW the pics dont do it well the pic is not as bad as it looks here. ITs not great but its not horrible either.
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post #1360 of 1449 Old 02-27-2018, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I just bought a viva bright GP100 (not the projector in the pic) and I want to put up a screen but I dont have allot of extra.
I am seeing several things here about panting an MDF panel.
What have you guys found as the best paint to offer the best color reproduction?

I included some pics to give you an idea of what I have now this is just projecting onto a grey wall in my townhome.
Thank you for any help.
BTW the pics dont do it well the pic is not as bad as it looks here. ITs not great but its not horrible either.
A grey wall can work well in its own and even provide fantastic color reproduction if it's a neutral grey instead of a warm/cool/tinted grey.

Compared to your wall, can you describe the kinds of changes you'd prefer to see?...For example:
-I'd prefer the image to be; warmer or cooler, brighter or darker, larger or smaller..
-I'd like the screen to be; able to fight a little light or really forgiving to paint, something I can hang on the wall and move around or something I can paint directly onto the wall and later repaint over to match the rest of the wall again..
Things like that.

Great color reproduction just needs a neutral color, but how light/dark, forgiving/light-fighting, mobile/low-profile it'll be can still be important to choose...and some people prefer their screen warmer/cooler tinted because of either personal preference/habit OR because their projector puts out a tinted image that becomes more neutral on a screen tinted the opposite direction..so you might first want to decide on that if you haven't already thought about it.
The main reason I bring it up is because I've seen folks who've become used to their image on a warmly colored surface complain about things looking too cool/blue on a more neutral screen, and I've seen some low-budget projectors giving strongly tinted images which may benefit from a screen tinted the opposite direction to help neutralize the image a bit.
Not a huge thing, but maybe something to doublecheck while you're planning.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1361 of 1449 Old 02-27-2018, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
A grey wall can work well in its own and even provide fantastic color reproduction if it's a neutral grey instead of a warm/cool/tinted grey.

Compared to your wall, can you describe the kinds of changes you'd prefer to see?...For example:
-I'd prefer the image to be; warmer or cooler, brighter or darker, larger or smaller..
-I'd like the screen to be; able to fight a little light or really forgiving to paint, something I can hang on the wall and move around or something I can paint directly onto the wall and later repaint over to match the rest of the wall again..
Things like that.

Great color reproduction just needs a neutral color, but how light/dark, forgiving/light-fighting, mobile/low-profile it'll be can still be important to choose...and some people prefer their screen warmer/cooler tinted because of either personal preference/habit OR because their projector puts out a tinted image that becomes more neutral on a screen tinted the opposite direction..so you might first want to decide on that if you haven't already thought about it.
The main reason I bring it up is because I've seen folks who've become used to their image on a warmly colored surface complain about things looking too cool/blue on a more neutral screen, and I've seen some low-budget projectors giving strongly tinted images which may benefit from a screen tinted the opposite direction to help neutralize the image a bit.
Not a huge thing, but maybe something to doublecheck while you're planning.

Its a pretty natural grey wall maybe ill see how the viva bright does. I have some generic 1024X768 resolution projector my new one is supposed to be here tomorrow. So moving to 1280X800 should help

Id love to move to a full 1080P but they are all out of my budget right now.

-Id prefer the image to be a little light forgiving right now its not at all. Mainly so if im eating watching a movie I can have some basic light just not on the screen while I eat.
Id like to see better color representation and a better contrast between colors
Id like to use the board as I dont own this so id rather not paint the wall.
Id love to just paint on the wall but it just seems like a hassle to repaint over in a year.
I figure a screen that is smooth would also give better pic the wall has a rough surface one of those new where they add just a little so its not just flat.
Problem I guess with a board is that my screen size is pretty big so I would likely have to put several together as I doubt they come in the size I have projected. IM not even sure how bit it is.
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post #1362 of 1449 Old 02-28-2018, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Its a pretty natural grey wall maybe ill see how the viva bright does. I have some generic 1024X768 resolution projector my new one is supposed to be here tomorrow. So moving to 1280X800 should help

Id love to move to a full 1080P but they are all out of my budget right now.

-Id prefer the image to be a little light forgiving right now its not at all. Mainly so if im eating watching a movie I can have some basic light just not on the screen while I eat.
Id like to see better color representation and a better contrast between colors
Id like to use the board as I dont own this so id rather not paint the wall.
Id love to just paint on the wall but it just seems like a hassle to repaint over in a year.
I figure a screen that is smooth would also give better pic the wall has a rough surface one of those new where they add just a little so its not just flat.
Problem I guess with a board is that my screen size is pretty big so I would likely have to put several together as I doubt they come in the size I have projected. IM not even sure how bit it is.
I've heard good things about the ViewSonic pjd7827 which is bright, accurate, flexible and full 1080p at around $500, but I don't think you can find 1080p at much under that price-range.

Your plain grey wall is naturally decent at taming reflections and about as good as it gets against lights coming from near the projector/seats since lights in those places can't be fought effectively by a screen without it also fighting the projector at the same time by dimming the image.
A light-fighting/ALR screen (one that isn't just plain flat/matte grey) is mostly good at fighting lights hitting it at angles such as lights coming in from the sides and steeply above/below..so you might need to keep low expectations for what a screen can do for a low-lumen projector with lights near the seats/projector.
It can still help, but likely less than you'd like or expect it to.

Because your wall/screen is already pretty neutral and dark-colored, you'll mostly get improvements in color accuracy and contrast from a more accurate and higher-contrast projector (usually easiest with an RGB DLP because non-RGB DLPs are less accurate and affordable LCDs are lower-contrast).

It's harder and more expensive finding panels over larger than 48inch x 96inch (about as tall as a 100"-diagonal 16:9 screen or wide as a 110"-diagonal 16:9)..so painting the wall may be something to consider if you want to go larger than that for very little money. Usually the next cheapest option is either 5x8 or 5x10 drywall (which is pretty heavy and brittle) or a wooden/poplar frame and BlackOutCloth..but BlackOutCloth is often only available at only 54inches-tall unless you pay a lot extra for a specialty size.
A very non-shiny/flat-finish paint can make a textured wall/surface look surprisingly smooth, but you're right that a smooth surface can be even sharper, AND you'll need a smooth surface (and smooth paintjob) if you decide to use a mix that helps against off-axis lights (like a metallic or metallic and poly mix with paint).

For metallic paints, I'm familiar with Rustoleum Metallic Accents(sterlingsilver and pearl, etc), RalphLauren and PPG tintable silver metallic and FolkArt..but the FolkArt which works great sprayed, I haven't had much luck rolling it on..and I'm guessing you're rolling instead of spraying.

Let me know if you find your new projector to be brighter or dimmer than your old one (brighter will definitely help when watching with lights near the seats), and try to measure your image-size...and see if any of those metallics I listed above are available at a liveable price or if you'll need to use something random and more local if you decide to make the screen more aggressive against off-axis lights (lights farther from the projector/seats).

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 02-28-2018 at 11:09 AM.
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post #1363 of 1449 Old 03-05-2018, 01:58 PM
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Hello all,

I just buzz-sawed through this entire post and joined the website. There's a lot of information but I think I have a plan to do a painted screen; I wanted your opinions as I probably almost certainly missed a few things. First my setup:

Projector: Vivibright (SimpleBeamer) GP100 on ceiling upside down.
Throw distance: 10 - 11 ft
Screen size: 85"

Before you make fun of my projector we had an Acer K132 (400 lms) that we liked alot but the LED overheated and damaged the chip and melted the lens.... so we bought this projector new for $240 Canadian on a budget and it does the job. (after adjusting gamma and RGB values to compensate for terrible contrast and overly red color, its fine until we can spend more in a few years)

I did a quick test roll on 2ft by 2ft square of 1:1 Rustoleum Metallic Accents Silverscreen and CIL Granite Grey in Eggshell.(Got a tester for 2 bucks) When looked at head on in the middle of the screen I really liked that it looked brighter then my off-white wall yet had slightly deeper blacks. Whites are brighter and white instead of off-white, color popped and yet looked more natural. My bad roller technique meant you could see the roller lines to the point of distraction, and moving 2-3 feet to the left or right the whole image looks alot darker. In the afternoon the room gets ALOT of sunlight and it looks way better on the painted square then the off-white wall. I would like to try spraying this if it will end up smoother.

My first question is should I use matte instead of eggshell for the granite grey? My second question is do you recommend based on my test results a different formulation besides 1:1 or different paint color? The third question is, if spraying, would this formula be proper or do I have something out of balance?

1 Part Rustoleum SS
1 Part Granite Grey Paint
1 Part Matte Poly
1 Part Water

Thanks in advance for any help or advice, I appreciate it greatly.
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post #1364 of 1449 Old 03-05-2018, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloDiablo1211 View Post
Hello all,


Projector: Vivibright (SimpleBeamer) GP100 on ceiling upside down.
Throw distance: 10 - 11 ft
Screen size: 85"



I did a quick test roll on 2ft by 2ft square of 1:1 Rustoleum Metallic Accents Silverscreen and CIL Granite Grey in Eggshell.(Got a tester for 2 bucks) When looked at head on in the middle of the screen I really liked that it looked brighter then my off-white wall yet had slightly deeper blacks. Whites are brighter and white instead of off-white, color popped and yet looked more natural. My bad roller technique meant you could see the roller lines to the point of distraction, and moving 2-3 feet to the left or right the whole image looks alot darker. In the afternoon the room gets ALOT of sunlight and it looks way better on the painted square then the off-white wall. I would like to try spraying this if it will end up smoother.

My first question is should I use matte instead of eggshell for the granite grey? My second question is do you recommend based on my test results a different formulation besides 1:1 or different paint color? The third question is, if spraying, would this formula be proper or do I have something out of balance?

1 Part Rustoleum SS
1 Part Granite Grey Paint
1 Part Matte Poly
1 Part Water

Thanks in advance for any help or advice, I appreciate it greatly.
What did you adjust your settings to? I have worked on it with my GP100 for days and I still cant get my contrast and red right drives me crazy.
I also bought a Fugetek FG-857 and same thing overly red and high contrast.
I thought it was my wall but its a a basic grey. I attached a pic here. I think you can see the texture.

Anyway im debating.
I am just going to buy a refurb epson 2040 I found for just about $400. I thought Its a 3LCD full 1080P and gets rave reviews but im worried as 2 projectors both dont look good. Could it be my wall?
I am thinking of panting the wall but then someone said its about as netural as it gets.
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post #1365 of 1449 Old 03-05-2018, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PabloDiablo1211 View Post
Hello all,

I just buzz-sawed through this entire post and joined the website. There's a lot of information but I think I have a plan to do a painted screen; I wanted your opinions as I probably almost certainly missed a few things. First my setup:


I did a quick test roll on 2ft by 2ft square of 1:1 Rustoleum Metallic Accents Silverscreen and CIL Granite Grey in Eggshell.(Got a tester for 2 bucks) When looked at head on in the middle of the screen I really liked that it looked brighter then my off-white wall yet had slightly deeper blacks. Whites are brighter and white instead of off-white, color popped and yet looked more natural. My bad roller technique meant you could see the roller lines to the point of distraction, and moving 2-3 feet to the left or right the whole image looks alot darker. In the afternoon the room gets ALOT of sunlight and it looks way better on the painted square then the off-white wall. I would like to try spraying this if it will end up smoother.

My first question is should I use matte instead of eggshell for the granite grey? My second question is do you recommend based on my test results a different formulation besides 1:1 or different paint color? The third question is, if spraying, would this formula be proper or do I have something out of balance?

1 Part Rustoleum SS
1 Part Granite Grey Paint
1 Part Matte Poly
1 Part Water

Thanks in advance for any help or advice, I appreciate it greatly.
Yes! Switch to Matte/Flat in a Interior Enamel
Go with a slightly lighter shade of Neutral Gray
Spray for certain

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post #1366 of 1449 Old 03-05-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morepowerTV View Post
What did you adjust your settings to? I have worked on it with my GP100 for days and I still cant get my contrast and red right drives me crazy.
I also bought a Fugetek FG-857 and same thing overly red and high contrast.
I thought it was my wall but its a a basic grey. I attached a pic here. I think you can see the texture.

Anyway im debating.
I am just going to buy a refurb epson 2040 I found for just about $400. I thought Its a 3LCD full 1080P and gets rave reviews but im worried as 2 projectors both dont look good. Could it be my wall?
I am thinking of panting the wall but then someone said its about as netural as it gets.
It is your current Projector....no question

Once you get an true "1080p w/real contrast" image up using the stupidly brighter 2040, you will kick that GP100 to the Curb.

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post #1367 of 1449 Old 03-05-2018, 06:58 PM
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Thanks MM. I will try that.

Morepower I am plugged into a laptop and used the windows color correction to drop gamma by about 40 percent to compisate for whites that are blown outand have zero detail and then dropped the red value by about 12 percent to make color more balanced. If you adjust the rgb on the projector it doesn't have the same affect. You can also use free gamma adjustment programs to also adjust brightness and contrast. Its no where close to a "real" projector, but good enough for us now.
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post #1368 of 1449 Old 03-05-2018, 07:05 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
It is your current Projector....no question

Once you get an true "1080p w/real contrast" image up using the stupidly brighter 2040, you will kick that GP100 to the Curb.
are you saying the 2040 is good or bad?
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The viva bright is what I have but its going back to amazon tomorrow
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post #1370 of 1449 Old 04-23-2018, 11:44 AM
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Hi all

I guess this thread has stagnated a bit, but even so, I just wanted to share a result I got from following some of the recommendations here

The mix I did was a full quart of Deep Onyx flat base with 1/3 quart of Rustoleum Sterling Silver and 3/4 quart of Varathane Mettalic Silver. I painted over a cheap 100" matte white screen I had before.

I initially tried several combinations just with the matte black and the Rustoleum, but doing some test panels I found that the silver just does not like to be tinted at all. I would start with a drop of Rustoleum and slowly add black, but by the time I got to the desired shade there was almost no metallic overall. So I went to home depot and asked if they had any untinted metallic and they came up with this Varathane paint

Now I've never seen the Varathane mentioned here, but it was the only metallic they had aside from the Rustoleum, so I thought what the hell. And like I mentioned, it's untinted, so I could add as much as needed while keeping the overall black shade. However, it is also kinda glossy, so I added back some of the Rustoleum to flatten things out a bit.

Overall I'm very happy with the colors and contrast. I get some moderately nice whites, even though the picture is a bit dark at full daylight. But hey, at least I'm getting a watchable picture, which is more than I had before Turning down the lights I get solid blacks with plenty of gain, so I'm very happy.

The major downside is I can clearly see the texture from the roller, and also got some visible banding. I see most people have moved on to spraying these mixes, and I guess I'll follow that route for the next try.

Anyway, here are some sample pictures for reference. Cheers
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post #1371 of 1449 Old 04-23-2018, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Spoiler!

First, thanks for sharing the details of the mix you used plus the reasons you used what you used..some very cool information in there. That's a super dark-colored screen and it sounds like that was your plan, so that added extra enjoyment getting to read how you managed it with the ingredients you could find.
I'll have to ask my nearest HomeDepot's if they're planning to carry a Varathane tintable metallic (although I kind of hope they don't if it's somewhat glossy).

I'll be happy to help with any questions you might have.
A quick warning (even though you probably already know), you'll need a really smooth surface to spray paint onto if you decide to go that route...Otherwise the surface's texture can cause similar problems as the roll-on-paint texture even when you spray.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1372 of 1449 Old 04-24-2018, 02:17 AM
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I have really enjoyed reading all the post. I am looking to install two projectors inside of a night club to project videos as the songs are played. The interior of the clubs walls are black and would like to create screens above the two stages that are also black and will not stand out when not in use. I understand the darker screens are for brightly lit areas but could they be used in a dimmer club setting. The club will not be as dark as a movie theater. The progectors will be 3200 to 4000 lumens one being a Benq sp840. Looking at approx 150" screen I have read the first 100 post and will gradually read them all but thought I would reach out and see if you had suggestions
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post #1373 of 1449 Old 04-24-2018, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Spoiler!

There was a fellow painting a couple of huge screens inside a church who made a pair of screens that appeared to blend in with the building's black walls..that was a mixture of flat-black paint and a gallon of tintable silver RalphLauren (now tintable silver PPG from HomeDepot)...I think it was a gallon of tintable metallic (left untinted) mixed with 2quarts of flat interior paint tinted-"Deep Onyx", but I'll have to doublecheck.


If you're going for a large super dark-colored screen, keep in mind the image will look more evenly bright with the projector mounted farther away...around 16.5ft back or farther if possible. Mounting closer can make it more likely to hotspot and appear glossy/shiny.
A darker-colored screen will also lose gain/brightness faster than a light-colored screen when viewed farther off-axis..so only going as dark-colored as you have to can help keep an overall brighter image for people watching from more awkward directions.

I'm going to go digging for that church screen posting.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1374 of 1449 Old 04-24-2018, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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For once I'm not terrible with the search function! This was spread between pages 15-17 I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payneboy View Post
Here is how it turned out: The color is a really dark metallic silver/gray, but not too much different than the black that was there before. I have attached a couple of pics to show low light and full light. I am pretty impressed with it so far and I think we will try it this Sunday. Thanks again Ftoast for all your help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Payneboy View Post
The smaller center screen has been there for 8 years, it is flat white and has served us well until we started growing. The 2 new screens are the left and right ones. The walls were built at angles for us to use them as screens at some point. They both have rooms behind them as we were originally thinking rear projection, but changed our minds. The walls were painted originally with Flat Black Dry-Fall from Sherwin Williams.

I just followed your percentages and used a 2:1 ratio of Ralph Lauren Metallic untinted and Behr Onyx Black. I rolled both walls after mixing a full gallon of Metallic with a half gallon of the Onyx Black; each wall is around 250 sq. ft. The only thing I did to the Epson 8350 was change it to Dynamic from Living Room in the settings. That made the picture MUCH brighter and I think it is going to work fine for us. We will use them for the first time on Sunday.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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Thank you so much for the info. Exactly what I am looking for. We do have 17' from mounting location to back wall. How would you suggest to build the screens? What is the best/economical solution to build 150"+ screen? I want the best possible look without breaking the bank. Is there a link to someone that has built a similar screen? Again thank you so much for your reply and help
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post #1376 of 1449 Old 04-24-2018, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gregory Place View Post
Thank you so much for the info. Exactly what I am looking for. We do have 17' from mounting location to back wall. How would you suggest to build the screens? What is the best/economical solution to build 150"+ screen? I want the best possible look without breaking the bank. Is there a link to someone that has built a similar screen? Again thank you so much for your reply and help
Is this a screen you'll need to build and hang, or would you be able to paint directly onto the walls you'd be projecting on? If you have a decently blank wall where you plan to hang a screen, it's almost always cheaper to paint the screen onto the wall instead of creating a separate surface to paint or stretch material over.

Building a pair of smooth and lightweight/hanging screens also tends to make it pretty difficult to roll the paint on because you'll be dealing with a somewhat stretchy/flexible surface instead of a hard wall..so a painted wall can usually be rolled on, but a separate hanging screen will be a LOT easier if you spray.
The common FlexiWhite material would cost around $200 for a pair of 150" screens (plus wood for the frames, around $50 for a sprayer, plus around $60 For paints).
At that point you might also want to think about Carl's ALR material which would be stretched over a wooden frame without any need for paint+sprayer, but it D
DOES raise the overall cost even higher (about $500 +wood for a frame VS ~$310 +wood for a frame using FlexiWhite and paint)..I'm not sure if either of these is within your budget.

If you can paint the walls directly (like the 15ft-wide church screens), that'll save a few hundred dollars.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 04-26-2018 at 02:13 PM.
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post #1377 of 1449 Old 04-25-2018, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsoncouto View Post
Hi all

I guess this thread has stagnated a bit, but even so, I just wanted to share a result I got from following some of the recommendations here

The mix I did was a full quart of Deep Onyx flat base with 1/3 quart of Rustoleum Sterling Silver and 3/4 quart of Varathane Mettalic Silver. I painted over a cheap 100" matte white screen I had before.

I initially tried several combinations just with the matte black and the Rustoleum, but doing some test panels I found that the silver just does not like to be tinted at all. I would start with a drop of Rustoleum and slowly add black, but by the time I got to the desired shade there was almost no metallic overall. So I went to home depot and asked if they had any untinted metallic and they came up with this Varathane paint

Now I've never seen the Varathane mentioned here, but it was the only metallic they had aside from the Rustoleum, so I thought what the hell. And like I mentioned, it's untinted, so I could add as much as needed while keeping the overall black shade. However, it is also kinda glossy, so I added back some of the Rustoleum to flatten things out a bit.

Overall I'm very happy with the colors and contrast. I get some moderately nice whites, even though the picture is a bit dark at full daylight. But hey, at least I'm getting a watchable picture, which is more than I had before Turning down the lights I get solid blacks with plenty of gain, so I'm very happy.

The major downside is I can clearly see the texture from the roller, and also got some visible banding. I see most people have moved on to spraying these mixes, and I guess I'll follow that route for the next try.

Anyway, here are some sample pictures for reference. Cheers
I know photos can rarely do justice to projected images, but it seems like you've got some good results there. I wonder how these very dark screens respond when you throw images of several very dark shades of grey at them. Because, for many people it isn't just about black levels, is about the subtleties between darker tones. Can you sometime test this with that screen in a dark environment?

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post #1378 of 1449 Old 04-28-2018, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by descalabro View Post
I know photos can rarely do justice to projected images, but it seems like you've got some good results there. I wonder how these very dark screens respond when you throw images of several very dark shades of grey at them. Because, for many people it isn't just about black levels, is about the subtleties between darker tones. Can you sometime test this with that screen in a dark environment?
see a few puctures attached. in my opinion, the main problem is the texture and banding from the roller, and obviously all the weaves from the screen not being tensioned properly XD

but keep in mind i'm no picture purist, and certainly a lot of people would scoff at the results not being up to par, but I only care about it looking good to me, and it does
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post #1379 of 1449 Old 04-28-2018, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsoncouto View Post
see a few puctures attached. in my opinion, the main problem is the texture and banding from the roller, and obviously all the weaves from the screen not being tensioned properly XD

but keep in mind i'm no picture purist, and certainly a lot of people would scoff at the results not being up to par, but I only care about it looking good to me, and it does
Thanks a lot for the photos. That's probably going to look phenomenal once you apply it to a final screen without any kind of marks. Great job!

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post #1380 of 1449 Old 04-29-2018, 10:53 AM
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@Ftoast

Based on you rexperience with spraying, would you say there would be any issues with a smooth mdf panel or does the base material need to be slightly more texture to add some grip to the paint?
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