Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint - Page 47 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1381 of 1449 Old 04-29-2018, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by descalabro View Post
I know photos can rarely do justice to projected images, but it seems like you've got some good results there. I wonder how these very dark screens respond when you throw images of several very dark shades of grey at them. Because, for many people it isn't just about black levels, is about the subtleties between darker tones. Can you sometime test this with that screen in a dark environment?

here is a short video as well, for reference


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post #1382 of 1449 Old 04-29-2018, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsoncouto View Post
here is a short video as well, for reference


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxGxyk7djkA
Awesome! Thanks.
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post #1383 of 1449 Old 05-23-2018, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hudsoncouto View Post
here is a short video as well, for reference
What projector are you using?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1384 of 1449 Old 05-23-2018, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
What projector are you using?
Optoma HD141X
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post #1385 of 1449 Old 05-28-2018, 04:37 PM
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Hello, my question is whether it is possible to use mica powder with Deep Onyx paint, and if it is, what quantities should be used? In my country, there is no metallics like PPG, Rustoleum, not even FolkArt... and no webshop providing them ships to Hungary...
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post #1386 of 1449 Old 05-28-2018, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fazek_08 View Post
Hello, my question is whether it is possible to use mica powder with Deep Onyx paint, and if it is, what quantities should be used? In my country, there is no metallics like PPG, Rustoleum, not even FolkArt... and no webshop providing them ships to Hungary...
It is possible to use mica powder mixed with colored paint (or clear matte, or both), but there are different sizes and styles of mica powder which works better/worse and will use different quantities.
You might want to check out recent posts by johny1989 in either of these threads. I think he's been experimenting with a few different mica powders with really nice results.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...improve-6.html
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...l#post56250516

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1387 of 1449 Old 06-02-2018, 12:05 PM
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long time lurker who finally decided to register and post. I am looking to create a dark grey or as grey as possible screen using the paint rolling method. I am an amateur all all of this, just need some quick guidance though.

Behr Marquee paint being said sold at HomHomeDepot in Canada, I can get a gallon for free so I am kinda leaning towards that. May I get some direction as to what colour I would need and what I would need to tell them. I can get the rustoleum metallica but I understand they don’t roll on well. I have 2200 lumen data projector which will soon be upgraded by optima to be replaced by epson 2040. The room is a loft with access from stairs and one mid size window. I will be rolling on a thrifty board much like the original ftoast post.

Simple guidance will be greatly appreciated, once I get decent results with rolling I
intend to invest in folkart mettalics and spray but that’s later
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post #1388 of 1449 Old 06-02-2018, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talal Pervez View Post
long time lurker who finally decided to register and post. I am looking to create a dark grey or as grey as possible screen using the paint rolling method. I am an amateur all all of this, just need some quick guidance though.

Behr Marquee paint being said sold at HomHomeDepot in Canada, I can get a gallon for free so I am kinda leaning towards that. May I get some direction as to what colour I would need and what I would need to tell them. I can get the rustoleum metallica but I understand they don’t roll on well. I have 2200 lumen data projector which will soon be upgraded by optima to be replaced by epson 2040. The room is a loft with access from stairs and one mid size window. I will be rolling on a thrifty board much like the original ftoast post.

Simple guidance will be greatly appreciated, once I get decent results with rolling I
intend to invest in folkart mettalics and spray but that’s later
Is the Rustoleum Metallic paint you can get called "Rustoleum Metallic Accents" (usually comes in a clear jar that looks like a large mayonnaise or peanutbutter jar), or is it a different Rustoleum Metallic (usually in a regular metal paint can)?
If it's Rustoleum Metallic Accents, is it pearl or sterlingsilver?
If it's a different Rustoleum Metallic, is it soap+water cleanup or is it oil-based?
If it's oil-based, do you have access to a different metallic paint?

Can you explain (or show using a picture or rough drawing) where the window is inside that room compared to the seats and screen..and roughly how big it is?

Will your projector be mounted on the ceiling or somewhere pretty high, or will you be setting the projector low near the bottom of its image?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1389 of 1449 Old 06-09-2018, 10:09 PM
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I used rustoleum sterling silver with grey tabby using 4 to 1 ratio. I did one coat but seeing hotspots and some sparkles using benq mh680. Before i do second coat is there some thing i should do to the mix to reduce hotspots. I am projecting on painted wall about 130inch screen size.

Last edited by Sonisame; 06-11-2018 at 12:55 PM.
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post #1390 of 1449 Old 06-10-2018, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sonisame View Post
I used rustoleum sterling silver with grey tabby using 4 to 1 ratio. I did one quote but seeing hotspots and some sparkles using benq mh680. Before i do second coat is there some thing i should do to the mix to reduce hotspots. I am projecting on painted wall about 130inch screen size.
The Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver is really potent/concentrated metallic, so a much lower 1:1 ratio can often be plenty...but that'll make a darker-colored mix than your current one, so you might want to either use a lighter shade of grey OR add some flat-white with your GreyTabby and Rustoleum.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1391 of 1449 Old 06-11-2018, 12:54 PM
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Thanks, I played with few combinations, but finally settled with 4:4:2 combination of Rustoleum Sterling Silver/Behr Ultra White matte/Charcoal Black for my kids living room which has some windows and doors. To make rolling easy I mixed 5:1 paint/distill water. The image quality is awesome

For my theater room, I will be replacing my Mits HC3800 today with Optoma UHD51A. The theater room is light-controlled and mostly used during evening/night hours. I probably will go with a slightly darker combination.

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post #1392 of 1449 Old 06-17-2018, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsoncouto View Post
here is a short video as well, for reference


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxGxyk7djkA
That’s really impressive. Is there any point in buying a used hw45es for $950 for my living room with white walls? If I can get those results with a $350 projector, I’m not going to spend the extra cash.
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post #1393 of 1449 Old 06-17-2018, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
That’s really impressive. Is there any point in buying a used hw45es for $950 for my living room with white walls? If I can get those results with a $350 projector, I’m not going to spend the extra cash.
Don't get too overwrought. While the example does show the merits of using a Dark Surface that has gain, it's certainly nothing new or unusual.

Why not?

The Poster was using a 3000 lumen PJ on a 100" diagonal Screen, and even with just 0.7 gain was getting 35 fl. That is an extremely high amount of reflection. The use of such pairings is a well known way to combat adverse conditions, but are in and of themselves limiting factors.

The depth of the black level on screen was / is primarily responsible for whatever resistance to wash out the screen has (...with an slight assist from the Silver Metallic) but make no mistake, screen size and lumen output had everything to do with the shown results.


So duplicate it at /on every point....or your results may...and probably will vary widely, if indeed not wildly.

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post #1394 of 1449 Old 06-17-2018, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
That’s really impressive. Is there any point in buying a used hw45es for $950 for my living room with white walls? If I can get those results with a $350 projector, I’m not going to spend the extra cash.
The SonyHW45 does have 2X higher full-color brightness compared to most of the cheaper Optoma projectors (2X higher color-brightness than most cheap DLPs in general) and it runs quieter at full power than many projector's are in EcoLamp. The Sony's higher contrast won't be very obvious written there's a lot of light in the room, but as the room gets dimmer the Sony's higher contrast will become more noticeable..particularly during darker scenes.

Whether or not that's important to you enough to warrant the price difference is up to you, but the hw45 can be a really nice projector.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1395 of 1449 Old 06-18-2018, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Whether or not that's important to you enough to warrant the price difference is up to you, but the hw45 can be a really nice projector.

........but not nearly as nice if it's pushing onto such a dark screen as described just above by hudsoncouto, unless the screen is like his, sized under 100" diagonal. IE: At 120" only 13 fl will be produced, and while that is somewhat enough for a totally dark room, in the level of ambient light shown it would be terrible.
38 fl vs 13 fl

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post #1396 of 1449 Old 06-18-2018, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The Poster was using a 3000 lumen PJ on a 100" diagonal Screen, and even with just 0.7 gain was getting 35 fl.
Hi MM, could you please walk me through how to get those numbers? If you were using projector central's calculator I'd have to clarify a few things.

I know Optoma lists the HD141x at 3000lm peak white light output, but ProjectorCentral measured it (they have all the gizmos to measure it, I'm not sure how I would verify it) at slightly over 1000lm of colored light. I've actually been kinda looking forward to exhausting the lamp hours so I can upgrade to a higher lumen PJ :P They say some Epsons have higher lumen/lower contrast, which I think might be an acceptable tradeoff with this setup.


More importantly, I'll shamefully admit that I previously had the projector mounted to get a 120" image on the white wall, and I've been too lazy to drill new holes on the ceiling to bring it to the appropriate position for this 100" screen, so for all my examples I was just cropping the image with the PJ's software. Light output should be slightly higher one I bring it closer, but maybe also the hotspotting, we'll see. But then again, I've been lazy/otherwise occupied. So for all my examples please consider it as a "cropped" 120" image, as the PJ is in fact mounted at exactly 4m from the wall.


Also I'm sitting at about 1300 lamp hours on bright mode (Eco mode is too dark with this screen). A brand new PJ would give better results


Sorry I didn't make these disclaimers from the start, as I was just casually posting my results, but if they are going to be used as a reference for future comparison, we might as well get the numbers right.
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post #1397 of 1449 Old 06-18-2018, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hudsoncouto View Post
Hi MM, could you please walk me through how to get those numbers? If you were using projector central's calculator I'd have to clarify a few things.

I know Optoma lists the HD141x at 3000lm peak white light output, but ProjectorCentral measured it (they have all the gizmos to measure it, I'm not sure how I would verify it) at slightly over 1000lm of colored light. I've actually been kinda looking forward to exhausting the lamp hours so I can upgrade to a higher lumen PJ :P They say some Epsons have higher lumen/lower contrast, which I think might be an acceptable tradeoff with this setup.


More importantly, I'll shamefully admit that I previously had the projector mounted to get a 120" image on the white wall, and I've been too lazy to drill new holes on the ceiling to bring it to the appropriate position for this 100" screen, so for all my examples I was just cropping the image with the PJ's software. Light output should be slightly higher one I bring it closer, but maybe also the hotspotting, we'll see. But then again, I've been lazy/otherwise occupied. So for all my examples please consider it as a "cropped" 120" image, as the PJ is in fact mounted at exactly 4m from the wall.


Also I'm sitting at about 1300 lamp hours on bright mode (Eco mode is too dark with this screen). A brand new PJ would give better results


Sorry I didn't make these disclaimers from the start, as I was just casually posting my results, but if they are going to be used as a reference for future comparison, we might as well get the numbers right.
Thanks for sharing the details.
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post #1398 of 1449 Old 06-18-2018, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakapo View Post
Thanks for sharing the details.

@ hudsoncouto,
I second that.......^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^

Yes, I did use PC's Calculator, and yes, those figures are based on best case situations w/New Lamps on Normal Modes, and the Throw distance at Mid-Point or less.

Only seldom do the Reviewers on ever post any visual examples of Ambient Light performance, opting to instead just relate their observations.

Let me say again I appreciate you being forthright about the circumstances and conditions. The solution you posted is very similar to other very dark Screens I've somewhat recently done for people, and when showing those results, I made certain that everything....Warts and Roses were mentioned.

It's just too darn easy to impress the uninitiated (..ie: gullible ) who see something stupendous and say "I gotta get that...NOW!" So being careful to not offer any promises that cannot be kept is important in helping maintain the credibility of DIY Screen making.

I'm jammin' on the screen you made, thinking how great it would do with a 2500 lumen Epson...or even a 2000 lumen JVC...so all in all, ya dun gud!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver is really potent/concentrated metallic, so a much lower 1:1 ratio can often be plenty...but that'll make a darker-colored mix than your current one, so you might want to either use a lighter shade of grey OR add some flat-white with your GreyTabby and Rustoleum.
Thank you!
I painted first coat couple of days ago and have not completed the black border or removed masking tapes.

Colors are as beautiful as they can get. Contrast! wow.
Using Optoma UHD51A

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T2...Rj47qVfUq-q7To

Last edited by Sonisame; 06-18-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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Are these still same recommendations if we are using it on wall as opposed to using a screen ?

I want to keep it a simple project. This is what I posted on SF thread also; bu tall I need to know if ratio and right colors

- Optoma HD131Xe 1080p 2500 Lumen
- 16 ft throw distance
- I have very hard brown carpet and almost brown walls
- Ceiling is off white acoustic panels
- There is little single light come form behind the projector from stairs for kids to not have full dark room
- 140 inch diagonal on wall, base coated twice with white
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post #1401 of 1449 Old 06-19-2018, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Are these still same recommendations if we are using it on wall as opposed to using a screen ?

I want to keep it a simple project. This is what I posted on SF thread also; bu tall I need to know if ratio and right colors

- Optoma HD131Xe 1080p 2500 Lumen
- 16 ft throw distance
- I have very hard brown carpet and almost brown walls
- Ceiling is off white acoustic panels
- There is little single light come form behind the projector from stairs for kids to not have full dark room
- 140 inch diagonal on wall, base coated twice with white
The paints work the same on a wall as they do on a screen, but a textured/bumpy surface will look more textured/bumpy with a metallic mix than it does with plain flat-white paint or plain light flat-grey paint.
Your darker-colored room won't be as much of a problem as a room withwhite walls/floor/ceiling, and your light coming from behind the projector won't be fought well with a light-fighting screen..so I think plain flat-white will likely work best if you want the image as bright as possible, or a light flat-grey (like "Universal Grey" or "OONN 62/000") if you'd prefer a darker overall image and you don't watch 3D movies.

If you're able to use a grey mix or plain flat-grey, painting the rest of the screen-wall white (so it looks like a grey screen on a white wall) can help trick your eyes so the blacks appear a little darker than they look with the whole wall the same color as the grey screen/paint.

If you'd like to use a metallic mix to try and keep brightness higher with a grey screen-color, are you able to get a quart of Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver for a reasonable price or will you be using a different metallic?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1402 of 1449 Old 06-19-2018, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The paints work the same on a wall as they do on a screen, but a textured/bumpy surface will look more textured/bumpy with a metallic mix than it does with plain flat-white paint or plain light flat-grey paint.
Your darker-colored room won't be as much of a problem as a room withwhite walls/floor/ceiling, and your light coming from behind the projector won't be fought well with a light-fighting screen..so I think plain flat-white will likely work best if you want the image as bright as possible, or a light flat-grey (like "Universal Grey" or "OONN 62/000") if you'd prefer a darker overall image and you don't watch 3D movies.

If you're able to use a grey mix or plain flat-grey, painting the rest of the screen-wall white (so it looks like a grey screen on a white wall) can help trick your eyes so the blacks appear a little darker than they look with the whole wall the same color as the grey screen/paint.

If you'd like to use a metallic mix to try and keep brightness higher with a grey screen-color, are you able to get a quart of Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver for a reasonable price or will you be using a different metallic?

Thanks for your quick reply ! I agree with your remarks and appreciate your response

I looked at the PPG Metallic here at home depot Model # PPG4000-04 Internet #301415879 Store SKU #1000047444

But if Rustoleum works fine I will go with that;

So keeping in mind that that is on an existing wall; should I mix far less quantity of metallic and use most rest as flat grey ?

What would you suggest then, keeping in mind we would add very less metallic to give some gain, but not show bumps..? Your ratios will help me
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post #1403 of 1449 Old 06-19-2018, 05:17 PM
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You can't approach any degree of REAL effectiveness with lower Quantities / Ratios per Base unless there is Polyurethane included in the line up.


For it is the translucent properties attributable to Matte Polyurethane that make the multi-layerd coating** glow, but do so over the entire surface. If a Projector has good light uniformity, a well balanced Metallic Mix will look to have virtually perfect light reflection across every square inch. It's not that dead center isn't brighter than the extreme edge....it's that the difference isn't worth noting. (**...multiple Sprayed coats...)



Thank goodness are are far more ways to customize a advanced Metallic mix and notice an appreciable difference at any Gray shaded depth, than there are arguments as to if any of it actually matters.



Those in the know...know better as to just how much of a difference it makes..


PJ choice & placement...Screen choice, and the room itself, all are going to interact, so optimizing each is going to always set one up for success.
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post #1404 of 1449 Old 06-19-2018, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Thanks for your quick reply ! I agree with your remarks and appreciate your response
I looked at the PPG Metallic here at home depot Model # PPG4000-04 Internet #301415879 Store SKU #1000047444

But if Rustoleum works fine I will go with that;
So keeping in mind that that is on an existing wall; should I mix far less quantity of metallic and use most rest as flat grey ?
What would you suggest then, keeping in mind we would add very less metallic to give some gain, but not show bumps..? Your ratios will help me
A 1:1mix of Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver and flat-white paint can give a grey mix with a bit of extra gain (around 1.1gain-1.3gain depending a bit on the paint and how smooth the paintjob is). If you're more concerned about avoiding a textured/bumpy look and less worried about peak-gain a mix as low as 1part Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver and 2parts flat-white can make a slightly lighter-grey screen with roughly 1.0gain.

Are you planning to roll this on or spray it on?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #1405 of 1449 Old 06-20-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
A 1:1mix of Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver and flat-white paint can give a grey mix with a bit of extra gain (around 1.1gain-1.3gain depending a bit on the paint and how smooth the paintjob is). If you're more concerned about avoiding a textured/bumpy look and less worried about peak-gain a mix as low as 1part Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver and 2parts flat-white can make a slightly lighter-grey screen with roughly 1.0gain.

Are you planning to roll this on or spray it on?
Thank You ! I was about to ask silly question again if I should get HomeDepot's PPG or Rustoleum; I read your 1st post again and found the answer that Rustoleum one you mentioned is needed in far less quantity than PPG

Thank you again !

I am onto my project now !
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post #1406 of 1449 Old 06-21-2018, 08:28 AM
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You can't approach any degree of REAL effectiveness with lower Quantities / Ratios per Base unless there is Polyurethane included in the line up.


For it is the translucent properties attributable to Matte Polyurethane that make the multi-layerd coating** glow, but do so over the entire surface. If a Projector has good light uniformity, a well balanced Metallic Mix will look to have virtually perfect light reflection across every square inch. It's not that dead center isn't brighter than the extreme edge....it's that the difference isn't worth noting. (**...multiple Sprayed coats...)
Has anybody tried spraying a CLEAR untinted mettalic + CLEAR matte poly over a pre-painted black surface?

It seems to me that mixing the black with the metallic covers some of the mica particles under the black paint, right? So if we could get a black surface to provide the black contrast levels and a clear matte mettalic coat on top to take care of reflections that might turn out okay?

I know a lot of people have experimented with films and glass and diffuse layers and all kinds of crazy stuff, so maybe you guys can provide some feedback so I don't go on a paint shopping spree again if it's already been done before
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post #1407 of 1449 Old 06-21-2018, 09:18 AM
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I myself tried a similar application using Black Sintra, and S-I-L-V-E-R , a Mix that contained 10% Silver Metallic and 905 Clear Matte Glaze.


It turned out dismally dark, and to even get any amount of reflection, the amount of paint applied on top had to be so dense (thick) that all the rear Black material could do is absorb any light that passed through. Another caveat was greatly increased Graininess...a habitual issue when you try to have higher gain built into a very Dark surface.


Of course that was then and this is now. The Black Sintra / Kometex board is still a great starting point, and the use of the non-tinted metallic is appropriate...along with the Matte Poly.


But the ratios of the two....that takes some consideration.


Just allowing for my experience with S-I-L-V-E-R, I would advise using no more than 15% metallic, and apply the paint/poly the same way as S-I-L-V-E-R ....over the course of 7-8 ultra light Duster Coats with no less than 60% row overlap.


The advantages that the normal S-I-L-V-E-R has is that the White underlying surface is closer by comparison to the color of the S-I-L-V-E-R mix so there is less "speck-u-lation" and more gain.



Give it a try....curiosity and desire is the fuel a DIY'er drives on.

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post #1408 of 1449 Old 06-21-2018, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anybody tried spraying a CLEAR untinted mettalic + CLEAR matte poly over a pre-painted black surface?

It seems to me that mixing the black with the metallic covers some of the mica particles under the black paint, right? So if we could get a black surface to provide the black contrast levels and a clear matte mettalic coat on top to take care of reflections that might turn out okay?

I know a lot of people have experimented with films and glass and diffuse layers and all kinds of crazy stuff, so maybe you guys can provide some feedback so I don't go on a paint shopping spree again if it's already been done before
I tried a couple of clear-over-black experiments (some for the FolkArt mix and some with the tintable metallic). There are a couple videos you might find interesting if I can find them...One is a high-gain tintable metallic over black (if I'm remembering right, little/nothing was added to the metallic except some water for spraying), and the other is a silvery/translucent mix sprayed over a picture (Pepsi logo) to show how it reacts with projected light VS off-axis light.

I didn't like the pure untinted metallic over black because it was picky about getting an even coverage and I think I was pretty new to spraying, but the semi-clear FolkArt mix looked cool and I think a mix of tintable metallic and matte water-based poly might be fun.
I think a mix of 1:1 might have the peak-gain around 1.3 and a 1part metallic plus 2parts poly mix might have around 1.0 peak-gain, but that's some really rough guessing.

I sprayed an 11% mix of the Rustoleum Metallic Accents sterlingsilver mixed with matte clear over a white surface (a 1:8 ratio) which gave a grey screen with around 1.2-1.3gain...so I'm just guessing about the tintable metallic based on the RustSS being about 8X more concentrated, but that's when dealing with colored paint while clear can be a little different.


In short, the black background under a metallic mix thats clear or semi-clear can make the screen look even darker-colored under sideways incoming lights (off-axis light) while leaving similar peak-gain as a lighter-colored underlying surface would..so it can be another way to get a darker-colored screen, but it can make the mix lose off-axis gain faster (meaning both a darker-colored screen in ambient light, but also a narrower viewing-cone and increased risk of hotspotting as your throw-ratio shortens), and it can be extra tricky to avoid looking sparkly.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1409 of 1449 Old 06-21-2018, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick heads-up in case it wasn't mentioned obviously somewhere else, but the tintable/clear metallic DOES still lighten really dark-colored mixes a bit. By itself it dries a milky-clear rather than perfectly clear, so it also somewhat lightens/fogs dark surfaces you spray it over..more as you add more coats.
The poly can help against this, but won't eliminate it entirely.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1410 of 1449 Old 10-21-2018, 08:03 AM
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The last few posts got me thinking to increase off axis viewing while having a dark high gain screen the distance between the "black" and "silver" needs to be minimized. Mixing is the obvious choice, but has issues. Some of those are solved by coating with a matte/clear+metallic mix, but that has other issues the more coats you add (increased gain, but deceased alr)... I'm thinking start with base black, then slowly add in more metallic and clear with each layer until you reach the desired gain while achieving the max ALR for your particular room. Ideally measuring contrast after each coat until it's maximized for your setup. That or maybe a simple:

Layer 1.Black
Layer 2.Black+clear+silver at 2:1:1(ratios to be determined later).
(I think I'm going to be buying a lot of paint in the near future...)

Edit: Will also be bookmarking and rereading this thread when I have the time and get ready to experiment.
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Last edited by Kreationz; 10-21-2018 at 08:42 AM.
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