Advice on W1070 DIY screen - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Advice on W1070 DIY screen

There is so much info in this section I feel like Alice in Wonderland.

At first I was making compromises in my DIY screen but have decided it is the showcase of the HT experience (duh) so may as well go all out.

Specs -
BenQ W1070 on Cinema Mode @ ~10ft for ~110" screen
Completely light controlled room, no ambient light.

What's the best DIY option out there for me to use? I know this is a bit subjective on my tastes, but I would say I am more of a 'purist' when it comes to these things, trying to exactly reproduce what was meant to be seen. For a base line on my thoughts, my current temp screen was a painted wall using Sherwin Williams paint to the N8.5 scale, I forget if it was eggshell or matte and I forget the shade name, but it is one of the common ones I found on here a couple years ago. It is SLIGHTLY dark, but other than that I find everything else looks nice to my very untrained eye.

I have read a few threads on this exact topic but didn't know how fast thigns change and may be out of date.

Thanks for any and all help!
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post #2 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 08:33 AM
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With the w1070 and it's relatively low contrast, I would strongly suggest using Silver Fire v2.5 N/C (no colorant) w/8 oz additional UPW added, and sprayed on.

If spraying is not possible, then RS-MaxxMudd-LL is the next best solution....as your determination to use Cinema Mode will require that you have gain.

As with any "Rolled On" paint, use proper technique, work a very wet edge, do not do more than 1 "back roll"...and do not go over any areas after you paint until they are absolutely dry.

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Last edited by MississippiMan; 11-25-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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post #3 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MM!! Now when you say sprayed on, sprayed on to what? Is there a best backer to spray on to?
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post #4 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post
Thanks MM!! Now when you say sprayed on, sprayed on to what? Is there a best backer to spray on to?
If the original wall is very smooth, simply spray-prime it until completely white, lightly sand until slippery smooth, then spray onto that. Otherwise, at 110" diagonal, you must consider either Expanded PVC (SINTRA-Komatex) or a Flexi-White Fabric stretched upon a Frame.

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post #5 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MM! Much appreciated!!
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post #6 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 09:42 AM
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At 110" the darkest that w1070 will go will still be over 22ftL..even when the lamp is minutes from death it'll still be making over 13ftL in cinema on eco-lamp with BC off on a flat/matte white! Going over 1.0gain could be too much light for a light-controlled dark theater..then again,
joeybutts, when you say fully light-controlled do you mean no lights shining or do you mean no lights shining PLUS dark-colored non-reflective walls/ceiling?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #7 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 09:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
At 110" the darkest that w1070 will go will still be over 22ftL..even when the lamp is minutes from death it'll still be making over 13ftL in cinema on eco-lamp with BC off on a flat/matte white! Going over 1.0gain could be too much light for a light-controlled dark theater..then again,
joeybutts, when you say fully light-controlled do you mean no lights shining or do you mean no lights shining PLUS dark-colored non-reflective walls/ceiling?
I mean fully treated for the best experience. Pitch black, can't see your hand, triple black velvet masking and trim, blacked out ceiling.

Thinking I should do something different, F?
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post #8 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 10:26 AM
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NO screen application that does not offer an improvement in on-screen contrast while maintaining Gain will be satisfactory with the w1070. And with the w1070, additional tweaks to calibration can both result in both better blacks as well as lower Lamp output.

It seems to be completely overlooked that you can always dim lamp output, but you cannot conjure up needed brightness when there is nothing of the such available. And....the screen is a big part in that equation.

15-16 fl is "reference" for a Theater....not 13 fl.

FT, I don't know how you can state such a thing like "...even minutes from death." and not expect to be called to account for it. All Lamps dim will to nearly an unwatchable state, unless they fail prematurely.

Methinks your trying just a bit too hard to counter my suggestions every time I post a response to an inquiry. Providing other options is great, but they should be rooted in actual-factual experience.

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post #9 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
It seems to be completely overlooked that you can always dim lamp output, but you cannot conjure up needed brightness when there is nothing of the such available. And....the screen is a big part in that equation.
Now that you say that, I do believe I am running in eco-mode.....I'll have to double check.
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post #10 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
1. NO screen application that does not offer an improvement in on-screen contrast while maintaining Gain will be satisfactory with the w1070.

2. And with the w1070, additional tweaks to calibration can both result in both better blacks as well as lower Lamp output.

3.It seems to be completely overlooked that you can always dim lamp output, but you cannot conjure up needed brightness when there is nothing of the such available. And....the screen is a big part in that equation.

4. 15-16 fl is "reference" for a Theater....not 13 fl.

5. FT, I don't know how you can state such a thing like "...even minutes from death." and not expect to be called to account for it. All Lamps dim will to nearly an unwatchable state, unless they fail prematurely.

6. Methinks your trying just a bit too hard to counter my suggestions every time I post a response to an inquiry. Providing other options is great, but they should be rooted in actual-factual experience.
1. The only way any screen can offer improved contrast to anything is by maintaining contrast in a poor room..The OP is using a beautiful room that won't benefit from any specialty screen's contrast maintenance. A dark room can be very satisfying well below spec as it won't be dealing with wall-sconces, walkway lights nor exit signs.

2. A proper brightness/contrast settings adjustment is always recommended, but the w1070 isn't terribly far off out-of-the-box..just one or two clicks.

3. Agreed, but 22ftL in cinema on eco-lamp is nothing to sneeze at.

4. Theater reference was 16ftL using a film projector with no film installed, adding film would take it down to 14ftL at maximum. Not that I'm a huge advocate for that particular spec, just saying added gain isn't required in this case.

5. I can state it after a metric ton of reading about newer DLP lamp-dimming characteristics, particularly the w1070. It's average actual lamp-life as well as its ability to maintain brightness is pretty impressive.

6. Agreed, I'll merrily be your devil's advocate
In this case, it's a perfect projection room and one of the highest actual measured contrast projectors under $1800.SilverFire/MaxxMudd/anything-else cannot add any contrast in such an excellent room and the w1070 is immensely bright at that modest size. A reference N9 flat/matte screen is a fantastic option that will offer the least visual artifacting and the highest chance of full success in application.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #11 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 11:55 AM
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I mean fully treated for the best experience. Pitch black, can't see your hand, triple black velvet masking and trim, blacked out ceiling.

Thinking I should do something different, F?
I believe you won't find anything noticeably better looking than a flat/matte-white or N9-white/grey in your room. "Snow field" or the slightly darker "Silver screen" tints of matte-white should be around N8.5-N9. Do you have any wants for a brighter or darker on-screen image right now, or are you quite happy with current brightness?

That said, the SF with tweaks that MississippiMan is suggesting shouldn't technically hurt anything except it'll bring black-levels up a little brighter with everything else. It's not terribly expensive to mix and who knows? you may really like how it looks. It has the chance to make the screen more visually apparent/noticeable during bright scenes, but a good application onto a smooth surface should make that a non-issue.

It's easy to paint over with matte-N9 if something goes wrong or you don't care for it, so it's probably worth a shot as long as you don't mind.
Sometimes a nice theater project is just good for the soul too.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-25-2014 at 12:04 PM.
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post #12 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you have any wants for a brighter or darker on-screen image right now, or are you quite happy with current brightness?

That said, the SF with tweaks that MississippiMan is suggesting shouldn't technically hurt anything except it'll bring black-levels up a little brighter with everything else. It's not terribly expensive to mix and who knows? you may really like how it looks. It has the chance to make the screen more visually apparent/noticeable during bright scenes, but a good application onto a smooth surface should make that a non-issue.

It's easy to paint over with matte-N9 if something goes wrong or you don't care for it, so it's probably worth a shot as long as you don't mind.
Sometimes a nice theater project is just good for the soul too.
I wouldn't mind a stitch brighter.

So F, what would you recommend?

How does what you are recommending compare to what MM is recommending? Just looking to gain a wee-bit of the knowledge you two possess on the topic.
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post #13 of 24 Old 11-25-2014, 01:25 PM
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I wouldn't mind a stitch brighter.

So F, what would you recommend?

How does what you are recommending compare to what MM is recommending? Just looking to gain a wee-bit of the knowledge you two possess on the topic.
Your N8.5 screen should be around 0.68gain if flat/matte or slightly brighter in the center if it's eggshell (the higher gloss "eggshell would give it a warmspot most likely), so an N9 would take your brightness up to 0.79gain and white would be all the way up to 0.9-1.0 while SF would be in the 1.2-1.3range...probably on the lower end with MississippiMan's suggested changes.
Since a 20% difference in brightness is about the minimum needed to see a difference that's apparent, a flat/matte-white or Mississippi's SF or MMLL would be a good way to step the brightness up.

If your wall is already smooth or you are willing to make it so and you're able to spray, those two specialty paints should yield good results with a step up in brightness over flat-white..and two steps over your existing screen. BUT a botched paintjob or a mark/bumps in the wall will show up on your picture..so you'll want a good surface and don't rush through the painting.

If you use flat/matte-white, surface flaws as well as any messups during painting will be well hidden because flat paint reflects light evenly and doesn't get misdirected by surface flaws. This means you can roll the paint on without worry and are basically guaranteed it will look beautiful under the projector. It'll also be a step up in brightness over your current screen but a step below the brightness if SF or MMLL.
Because it reflects light evenly and is color-neutral, it will give the highest level of perfection when showing your projector's image in a good room.

The specialty screens such as MississippiMan's can give back contrast when it's washed-out from certain angles of light hitting your screen, but they'll do nothing of the sort in a room that isn't lit or reflective. The only things they can do in your dark room that a flat-white cannot is increase overall brightness beyond 1.0gain.

Specialty screens are also unable to fight light coming from a similar angle as the projector or seating, so they aren't particularly useful against a table-lamp near your seating either.

Basically it's $75-$85 and a somewhat careful sprayjob that can add 20%more brightness and the ability to fight near screen-wall angled ambient light in a bad room OR $10-$15 for a perfect reference-white that can be rolled on with nearly guaranteed success.

If you can spray and the $80 doesn't hurt, go for it. When shopping for ingredients, get a gallon of flat-white instead of the quart for about $3 more..that way you'll have a $3 N9.5 screen waiting for you just in case AND you'll be able to see if you prefer the added brightness of SF or MMLL.

If not, take comfort in knowing that a high-end smooth flat-white screen costs $2000+ and will not look any better than your smooth flat-white option.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-25-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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post #14 of 24 Old 11-26-2014, 12:57 AM
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Ftoast,

You are completely and utterly wrong in saying that the screens I advocate do not enhance perceived contrast "on screen" or fail to actually deepen Blacks in a wholly light controlled situation. .

For you to continue to make that assessment without actually making one yourself and determining your own results is tantamount to prejudgement without knowing anything about what your speaking of.

There have been literally years of examples and testimonials expressed by hundreds, all before you ever started posting. And they all actually did screens.

Please...either make the effort to actually see SF in action yourself, or cease making such statements .Instead clarify your comments to state that in your opinion, one does not need to be concerned with trying to inhance contrast or deepen Blacks if a room is wholly light controlled. While that might well be true when one is using a Epson 5030...a SONY VW500-600, or a JVC X500R / 700R, it certainly is NOT true by any stretch when one is saddled with a any "Home Video" PJ such as is limited to 10,000:1 CR I myself have installed SF screedns in Theaters that have every single one of the aforementioned projectors. What's in your wallet?

I mean REALLY! I have personally improved the image quality of "Home Theater" type Projectors that have 50,000:1 CR, and actually have published many stated opinions from those with 120,000:1 CR PJs who plainly state that their images are more dynamic, vivid, have more shadow detail as well as much deeper black levels.

None of the aforementioned is possible, no will happen when using a unity gain Matte White.

Basically, you have to see / experience such a thing to be in a position to comment on such.

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post #15 of 24 Old 11-26-2014, 01:14 AM
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If not, take comfort in knowing that a high-end smooth flat-white screen costs $2000+ and will not look any better than your smooth flat-white option.
Oh, spending money on a high end screen is no guarantee at all. My Vutec Bright White was almost $1,000 13 years ago and was advertised as 1.5 gain. It was actually barely brighter than my homemade BOC screen. I just a few minutes ago set a piece of white plain (non photo) printer paper on my Vutec and it is actually a touch BRIGHTER than the Vutec. I doubt computer printer paper is anywhere close to 1.5 gain. So even a high-end name (which Vutec was) is no guarantee you will get what you think you're buying.

At least with these paints you have many testimonials rather than some manufacturer's lies.

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post #16 of 24 Old 11-26-2014, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, since both of you have supported the use of the SF I'll go that route and see what I think. Thanks fellas for the help and will report back with how it compares!
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post #17 of 24 Old 11-26-2014, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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MM, is this the correct polyurethane? For some reason feeling uncertain....

http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-260...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

And would this sprayer work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wagner-04170...item3a9a5611b4

Last edited by joeybutts; 11-26-2014 at 07:55 AM.
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MississippiMan, how is a 1.3gain surface going to darken blacks when there's nothing washing them out?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-26-2014 at 10:52 AM.
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post #19 of 24 Old 11-26-2014, 10:52 AM
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You are unaware and uninitiated about the dynamics that come into play when one combined the RGBY coloring within a translucent base which has been saturated with reflective elements. It's got to be a see it and experience it situation, or yes for many it doesn't seem possible. But it is and it does exactly what I'm stating.

Ever reference you're making pertains to what screen that range between 1.0 and above, it has no bearing whatsoever on what silverfire can accomplish.

If you would change your mind about swapping mixes... I could send you a Silver Fire 4.0 to make your judgements by. But be advised that not every silver fire application is 1.3 gain.

I really think that that is part of the issue, that you don't seem to understand that over fire is infinitely adjustable, and if somebody wants very deep blacks out of a projector that cannot provide such, then they can be obtained without falling below 1.0 gain.

I fear that without you experiencing exactly what is and is not possible that there will always be a impasse.

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post #20 of 24 Old 11-26-2014, 01:17 PM
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If you would change your mind about swapping mixes... I could send you a Silver Fire 4.0 to make your judgements by. But be advised that not every silver fire application is 1.3 gain.
As I said in the PM, I'd much rather you simply tell me what to purchase and how you'd want it mixed (since it sounded like you would be tweaking the mix somewhat from a normal 4.0). I'm not at all against trying what you're suggesting, I'm against giving out a mailing address online and exchanging cash/items with a person rather than a long-standing company.
You never responded to my message, so I figured you were either busy or against the idea for some reason.

Is there some reason I couldn't make the batch myself? Is it a more..hairy..process than a standard 4.0 build?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-26-2014 at 01:26 PM.
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post #21 of 24 Old 12-01-2014, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Any help?

MM, is this the correct polyurethane? For some reason feeling uncertain....

http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-260...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

And would this sprayer work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wagner-04170...item3a9a5611b4
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post #22 of 24 Old 12-01-2014, 12:27 PM
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Joey,

Your choices are identical to what is suggested.

Polyurethane:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_456846-90-27...d=4570132&Ntt=

Sprayers:
1st Choice http://www.lowes.com/pd_570350-97-HV2901P_4294684405__ with accessory 1.0 mm Tip
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...st-choice.html
all this number for access to 1.0 Needle & Tip Call Sam- 763-553-7081 @ Earlex


2nd Choice
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0417005.../dp/B000DZBP60


BTW...neither of the links you posted the 2nd time work.
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post #23 of 24 Old 12-01-2014, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Joey,

Your choices are identical to what is suggested.

Polyurethane:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_456846-90-27...d=4570132&Ntt=

Sprayers:
1st Choice http://www.lowes.com/pd_570350-97-HV2901P_4294684405__ with accessory 1.0 mm Tip
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...st-choice.html
all this number for access to 1.0 Needle & Tip Call Sam- 763-553-7081 @ Earlex


2nd Choice
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0417005.../dp/B000DZBP60


BTW...neither of the links you posted the 2nd time work.
Thanks MM!!

Yeah, I copied and pasted off the top, not quoted. Whoopsies.

Thanks for all your help and can't wait to get 'er done!
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post #24 of 24 Old 12-01-2014, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeybutts View Post
Thanks MM!!

Yeah, I copied and pasted off the top, not quoted. Whoopsies.

Thanks for all your help and can't wait to get 'er done!
Gleem paint is having a Cyber Monday sale on Wagner select Wagner sprayers and tips! Today only.
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