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post #1 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Help me pick materials for dyi screen

Just picked up the sony es350.

Looking to do a larger screen 2:35:1
150 inch

Not sure exactly of the final configuratin of the room.

So would like to do a dyi screen first.
Suggestions spandex or paint
Room low ambient light. In basement

I am comfortable doing a frame painting ect.


Thank you
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post #2 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 06:02 AM
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Painting will give a brighter screen than spandex, which could be a major plus with a screen approaching 12ft wide.
Flexi-white stretched over a well supported poplar frame would work well by itself OR painted upon.

Of course, if you already have a smooth wall or are able to make it so, painting the wall directly and adding a simple frame or masking might be worth considering. ..after you've decided on a good layout.

For painting, will you be rolling or is spraying a possibility?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #3 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 08:10 AM
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No doubt about it....you will need gain to offset the size screen and the SONY's lower lumen output.

Also, with the 350 being native 4K, you'll want a pristine surface to shoot onto.

As mentioned above, the best starting point would be Flexi-White. It comes in at 1.1 gain.
Unless your wall is absolutely perfect...or your willing to spend the time making it so...I'd not consider using the Drywall as your screen....heresy for me to say...I know...but what I'm willing and able to do and what others can and/or want to go through can be a wide gulf indeed. Still, the satisfaction index of making something like a Wall become a excellent 4K surface cannot be discounted, so there is that aspect to consider.

With the screen size you want and the SONY's output, ambient light would have to be decidedly low. The SONY is a perfect PJ for a dedicated Theater room with excellent light control. Not so very much for rooms with ambient light existing during Viewing content.

Now that can be mitigated by observing meticulous Surface prep, such as making all surfaces surrounding the screen non-reflective....as well as directing all light away from the screen. You also want to optimize PJ placement (Throw) by installing the SONY at 16' -6"

And something few consider out of hand. The best viewing with 4K comes when you sit 1:1 screen width to seating distance. This both because of wanting to benefit from the fine detail in resolution, and the fact that virtually all 4K PJs simply are not that bright.

If you need some small amount of additional help with ambient light, something that will help you maintain black levels "and" gain without dirtying up the screen, you can spray on a coating of RS-Maxx Mudd LL. (150" - 1.3 gain @ 16'-6" + 13 fl) But I would suggest trying the Flexi-White for a bit first if your room's viewing conditions are ideal. (150" - 1.1 gain @ 16'-6" + 11 fl)

So there we are. Obviously, by reducing your screen another 10" diagonally in 2.39:1 format you'd only gain 1fl on each level, so why bother...bigger is better.
You don't want to go with anything with a higher gain that would introduce artifacts either, so you are effectively at the maximum limits with your PJ.

As stated, the absolute best thing you could...and should do is to make your viewing conditions as ideally suited as possible. The correct room paint scheme....directional lighting....optimized PJ placement. Bluntly stated, anyone who spends $9000.00+ for a 4K PJ should not hesitate spending a wee bit more money & effort on the appropriate decor scheme.

However if WAF comes into play, or any / all of the suggested fixes cannot be considered, then reducing screen size would be the only viable alternative. Otherwise you'll wind up with non-acceptable performance.

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post #4 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Thanks for all the info .. I can controll the light in the room. When I use dedicated for theater. How ever at times may want to do some sporting events which might then have some low level,lighting. Along with a non projection tv on an adjacent wall.

Right now trying to figure out the best size screen. Ans as you mentioned not push beyond the boundaries of the 350 itself.

Room i area Is 23 deep. 20 wide.

Flexi-white sounds like a good choice is that better than Prowhite? One has to be streched ,, Other does not. Isthis bette rchoice than the spandex route?

Are we talking about the screen material sold by Carl's dyi?

Better than painting I assume. Better than screen goo.

Newbie here trying to learn the ropes. Ouch. Thanks for your help.
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
Wow. Thanks for all the info .. I can controll the light in the room. When I use dedicated for theater. How ever at times may want to do some sporting events which might then have some low level,lighting. Along with a non projection tv on an adjacent wall.
You'll have to face up to an immutable fact; any real degree of ambient light present in the room with both a 150" screen of anything at/under 1.3 gain, and the SONY will result in a degraded image.

Making a conscious effort toward "aiming" light onto specific seating areas (via Spot lamps and Lighting Shields...) will go far to help alleviate those issues.

But "eliminate"? Sadly..... No.

Quote:
Right now trying to figure out the best size screen. Ans as you mentioned not push beyond the boundaries of the 350 itself.
You'll have to go down to 130" or so to make any real significant difference, and even then you still need to practice effective light control since a high gain / high contrast screen is not in "the picture".

Room i area Is 23 deep. 20 wide.

Quote:
Flexi-white sounds like a good choice is that better than Prowhite? One has to be streched ,, Other does not. Isthis bette rchoice than the spandex route?
For your application Spandex is not even a consideration. Flexi-White is a Ultra Smooth material. Pro-White is not. You'll want the smoothest possible surface for your 4K imagery. And being so smooth starting out it is ideally suited as a "Canvass" to accept a advanced DIY Screen paint solution.

Quote:
Are we talking about the screen material sold by Carl's dyi?
Yep.....and when you order, be absolutely certain it comes in a "Roll", not folded into a Box.

Quote:
Better than painting I assume.
Not as far as obtaining optimal performance....but it's a good starting reference to make judgements by.

Quote:
Better than screen goo.
GOO has been out of the "Picture" as a viable choice, both performance and price-wise for a good many years. There are simply so many great alternative choices that are equally proficient and that come in well under 1/2 the cost that makes it's really a non-subject.

Quote:
Newbie here trying to learn the ropes. Ouch. Thanks for your help.
We all started out as Noobs. No "owwie" apologies necessary.

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post #6 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again. So my game plan. Is.. As I like to always tweak a and upgrade my interests will be to start off with the flexi white.

What size screen would you recommend then for room this size. Open to suggestions.

Yes. Will remove all flood lights use spots. In other words eventually changing the ceiling. Paint. Adding in visual effects black out ceiling ect. So bottom line will be making efforts to controll the lightning.


I'm lookin to start playing with this system and would like to get a screen to start diving in.
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post #7 of 14 Old 04-04-2015, 12:53 PM
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Well....the room is 20' wide, so a screen that is 10'-10" wide (130" @ 2:39:1) will leave 49" on each side. Not too bad

That size, using just the Flexi "raw" will give you 15 fl (17 fl) @ 14'-8" Throw. NOW your up in fl enough to have both a worthy dynamic image and a modicum of resistance to low non-directed ambient light

135" @ 2.39:1 would be 14 fl with a 14' -8" throw (17 fl)

Later....or sooner, should you decide to up the performance level with RS-MM-LL that would make all the above numbers change respectfully. (red)
Obviously, the 135"er is teetering right on the border of dropping to 16 fl while the 130"er is almost topping out at 18 fl.

Those figures are optimum values based on a brand new lamp and "best Cinema" Mode. It's best to use them as being "Best case" examples, and factor in at minimum 2-3 fl drop as the lamp ages.

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post #8 of 14 Old 04-05-2015, 01:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. What is ts-mm-ll. ?

I plan on eventually having a Motorized black curtains to adjust to different screen sizes depending on source. So do I want to go with 2:39:1. .? So then when watching 16:9. I use the curtains to go to a slightly smaller screen?
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-05-2015, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
Ok. What is ts-mm-ll. ?

I plan on eventually having a Motorized black curtains to adjust to different screen sizes depending on source. So do I want to go with 2:39:1. .? So then when watching 16:9. I use the curtains to go to a slightly smaller screen?

RS-MM-LL = Radiant Silvre Maxx Mudd Low Lumen -or- RS-MaxxMudd LL

Suggested to you because of the SONY's lower Lumen output and your desired Screen size needs a positive gain surface, and the SONY's already great Contrast & Blacks can be maintained even in low ambient light without the Whites suffering.

A variable Black Velvet or very Dark Black Curtain mask that simply pulls in to cover the unused 2.39:1 area when you switch over to 16:9 or 4:3 is the simplest way to go, and such a system is called "Constant Image Height" or CHI

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post #10 of 14 Old 04-05-2015, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again. Great info.

Of course I have some more " last questions. ". Will probably have more. Sorry. But your info is clearing up a lot of confusion.

Is 2:35:1. Same as 2:39:1

I looked at the Carl site and a little confused on which roll of flexi white to order.
Suggestions on which one. .?

Do I order the custom roll or is there a standard roll size for 2:39:1 I should order.

Where do I order this spray. And can I spray it on the screen lets say a week or so after I have the screen up and running. Or am I Better. Laying the screen in the garage falt and spraying it or better yet in basement which will have less dust particular. Howlong to dry. Maybe better off to spray while hanging on wall ?

When I change from 2:39:1 to 16:9 viewing what will be the screen size. I Di do a search on dimensions. do I want a 71x 151 then jus shorten sides to accomadte 16:9? Although i have ten foot ceiling I think that is the max height I could do in a basement.



Thanks again

Last edited by chicago66; 04-05-2015 at 11:56 AM.
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post #11 of 14 Old 04-05-2015, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post
Thanks again. Great info.

Of course I have some more " last questions. ". Will probably have more. Sorry. But your info is clearing up a lot of confusion.

Is 2:35:1. Same as 2:39:1
When "Cinema" format first became more common as far as being the referenced content material as shot by the Studio, it was almost always in 2.35:1, and DVD packaging stated such. As time went forward, that format slightly expanded to 2.39:1 (...or 2.40:1 - a miniscule difference) and if you look on any DVD that is listed as true Cinema, the package will state either of those figures. (...more often these days it is the latter...)

So when making / buying a screen, any DIY'er or purchaser should look to a screen that is formatted to the most common denominator.

[quote]I looked at the Carl site and a little confused on which roll of flexi white to order.
Suggestions on which one. .?

Do I order the custom roll or is there a standard roll size for 2:39:1 I should order. [QUOTE]

In going with a 135" 2.39:1 <Diagonal> ( 120" x 50") you should order this size: 53" x 126" (2.35:1) shipped in a roll.
The Flexi-White needs to be stretched equally over the constructed frame, at least 6" past the edges, and then stapled in place using 1/4" T50 Staples

Use this diagram when stapling:



Space the positions out a bit, of course, and add more when / if necessary. Spacing between staples should be no more than 1.5"

Here is a Image of such a Frame / screen.

You will note I used additional bracing inside to make certain the narrower Frame would be perfectly straight. The Frame consisted of 1 x 3s on edge around the Perimeter, and 1 x 3s ripped lengthwise to 2.25" and placed on edge for the central braces. I used a $99.99 Kreg Pocket Jig / Pocket Screws to fasten the assembly together, so all joints were square cut....no need to Miter cut corners.

Quote:
Where do I order this spray. And can I spray it on the screen lets say a week or so after I have the screen up and running. Or am I Better. Laying the screen in the garage flat and spraying it or better yet in basement which will have less dust particular. How long to dry. Maybe better off to spray while hanging on wall ?
ALWAYS spray vertically, and in place if possible.

Here are links to Spraying / Mixing Videos, some of which ...most actually...) are on different materials but essentially it's always using the same process.


110" SF v2.1 - 3.0 Floating Sintra Screen w/ Backlighting (Videos too!)

(Videos at the Bottom of the post)
Painting Onto A 106" Tab Tensioned Screen with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0

128" 2.35:1 Theater Project w/3 week Time Limit. "Warp Factor 9.5 -Engage..."

Up and Coming craziness...........Big doin's in the Big Easy!

Paint Straining Examples out the Kazoo

Small Bonus Room with 2.35:1 Screen and Panny 8000

Wagner Control Spray "PLUS" spray Application Videos

156" BOC Screen. The Ecstasy & The Agony

Simple Bonus Room Theater w/110" Gatorboard Foam SF Screen

Videos of Stirring, Straining, Spraying, and Cleaning up after you spray Silver Fire

(...Using a Conventional HVLP Rig...note how much slower I must go...)
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Miss...ay1B2.flv.html


122" Silver Fire v2.5 5.0 Screen on Barbados

Quote:
When I change from 2:39:1 to 16:9 viewing what will be the screen size. I Di do a search on dimensions. do I want a 71x 151 then just shorten sides to accommodate 16:9? Although i have ten foot ceiling I think that is the max height I could do in a basement.
As can often happen with a Noob, you mistakenly grabbed a hold of the diagonal Width as being the actual inches "wide" With the SONY it would be entirely impossible for you to go with a 2.39:1 screen that would be 151" wide (151" x 63" = 164" diagonal) because that size would 1st require a 18.5' throw, and would only provide at the uttermost 11 fl of brightness on a 1.3 gain surface.

Now it would be possible to stretch you available size to this point:
133" x 55" = 144" diagonal @ 2.39:1 and still clock in a 14 fl level with 1.3 gain

You's want to then order Flexi-White in the 63" x 151" size and trim it down to 142" long before stretching to make it easier to handle while doing so. Of course at the end you'll have to trim away all the excess material left after pulling, equal to the bottom edge of the edge-wise 1x 3 frame.

but be advised that going that much bigger puts you back to a place I was trying to avoid....your having much less screen brightness to help offset ambient light. Yes....you will gain between 20" to 24" additional screen width and between 9" to 14" additional diagonal. That size (144" diagonal) increase will up the size of your 16:9 image from what a 50" to 55" high screen would be.

But foot lambert brightness will take a good size hit.

Something else to touch on that is relevant. The 350ES is native 1.9:1 not 16:9 I rethinking things, it might be best for you to get the PJ mounted first, and shine actual 2.39:1 content on the wall, as well as 16:9 content.

The 350ES has a few features working for you. Power Zoom and shift, and a type of Image Size memory that allows you to black out unused pixels. It might be well advised to do some watching and adjusting first and then build your screen based on what you observe your size parameters are. Once you have some concrete measurements, we can more effectively advise you on what sizing to use/ how to build your screen frame...and lastly, what type / style of Masking would be most effective.

Quote:
Thanks again
Sending you a PM with a contact number should you need any real time advice during your trying to factor in your screen size adjustment.

Good luck...and get started!

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post #12 of 14 Old 04-05-2015, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow. Thanks for all the info. Really goood stuff.
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post #13 of 14 Old 04-05-2015, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. Re reading all your info. If I wanted to paint the wall. Just to play around with screen sizes as you mentioned above. What paint would you recommend from home depot or other. From there I can get. Feel for things I guess. . . .?
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post #14 of 14 Old 04-06-2015, 05:18 AM
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Ok. Re reading all your info. If I wanted to paint the wall. Just to play around with screen sizes as you mentioned above. What paint would you recommend from home depot or other. From there I can get. Feel for things I guess. . . .?
Pretty much any plain flat/matte white interior wallpaint will give a bright, neutral surface to test different sizes on. It's also inexpensive and accepts paint well for later if/when you repaint it to match the other walls.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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