Silver Fire v2.5 N/C vs 3.0 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 28 Old 07-24-2015, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Silver Fire v2.5 N/C ceiling mounted fold up screen

Have a few questions about the current Silver Fire variations. I am going from a 97" RS-MaxxMudd-Retro to a 106" Silver Fire variant. I have a BenQ W1070 and the room is light colored. We only use the PJ at night, 95% movies and 5% sports. With the current screen I notice a little graininess in bright scenes or white areas. I bought all the paints needed for the SF v2.5 3.0 last Fall. Also the 2900 sprayer with 1.0mm needle. Build was put on back-burner for number of reasons. Now have time and will power to complete it. Questions:
1. Reviewing the Official SF v2.5 thread I see there is now a N/C variation. How does this compare in darkness to the colorant-added scale?
2. For the 3.0 screen I was going to added extra UPW to minimize potential for graininess. Would the N/C be a better choice?
3. For a light-colored room and the W1070 / 106" diagonal setup, which would be the better choice?

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?

Last edited by Adult Beverage; 07-27-2015 at 12:19 PM. Reason: more of a build thread so changed title
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post #2 of 28 Old 07-24-2015, 12:21 PM
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Hi.....it's great to see you in the Traces and ready to start the pull toward a upgraded screen.

So let's start horse'n around, shall we?


I would absolutely suggest...without reservation...that you go with Silver Fire v2.5 N/C with an addition 8 oz UPW added.

It's that simple. Or add just 2 oz Colorant for a slightly deeper Grey shading.

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post #3 of 28 Old 07-24-2015, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Hi.....it's great to see you in the Traces and ready to start the pull toward a upgraded screen.

So let's start horse'n around, shall we?


I would absolutely suggest...without reservation...that you go with Silver Fire v2.5 N/C with an addition 8 oz UPW added.

It's that simple. Or add just 2 oz Colorant for a slightly deeper Grey shading.
Thanks for the quick reply. I do like simple. Got enough complications as it is. Have to make a mockup of the needed cut sintra size to see if it will fit in wife's minivan with seats removed. Closest Laird is 2 hours away and quote was $180 last fall. Don't have a pickup anymore and rental rates are high enough to be a no-go on top of sintra price. Had the foresight to take photos of the frame fabrication (hanging aluminum that latches to ceiling) so I can post once final build starts.

Final questions.

1. The N/C calls for 1750 UPW. I have a quart of 1850. Is there a difference?

2. Is the N/C darker gray that the MaxxMudd-Retro? Want nice balance of whitest whites and blackest blacks possible. Not concerned about how good it looks (like TV turned off) when not in use.

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?

Last edited by Adult Beverage; 07-24-2015 at 01:00 PM.
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post #4 of 28 Old 07-24-2015, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post
Thanks for the quick reply. I do like simple. Got enough complications as it is. Have to make a mockup of the needed cut sintra size to see if it will fit in wife's minivan with seats removed. Closest Laird is 2 hours away and quote was $180 last fall. Don't have a pickup anymore and rental rates are high enough to be a no-go on top of sintra price. Had the foresight to take photos of the frame fabrication (hanging aluminum that latches to ceiling) so I can post once final build starts.
Man...ya gotta let me see if I can get you a better quote than $180.00 via my Commercial account. Might save you as much as $70.00. PM me the contact number / size and if I can arrange it, all you'll probably have to do is "Cash & Carry". Or spend the extra saved on Delivery...

Keep in mind Sintra / Komatex in 6 mm will bend quite a bit, so if you have help loading, and you cup / curve the material, it should easily go right into any Mini Van w/no Seats. Removal will simply require the same proceedure in reverse.

Quote:
Final questions.
I've heard that before..................about a zillion times.




Quote:
1. The N/C calls for 1750 UPW. I have a quart of 1850. Is there a difference?
The 1850 is a pure Latex Enamel (discontinued) The 1750 is a Primer Paint...and replaced the 1850. Your all good....I'd use the 1850 all day, everyday iffin' I could.

Quote:
2. Is the N/C darker gray that the MaxxMudd-Retro? Want nice balance of whitest whites and blackest blacks possible. Not concerned about how good it looks (like TV turned off) when not in use.
They are actually pretty close, with an edge to the N/C.

Visual sensitivity to the granularity of mica content varies....those with Lasik 20-5 vison will see a speck of dust on a Screen, while 20-30'ers (...most of us non-altered mutants) can get by with never seeing such. A know fact is....once you see it or its pointed out to you.....you'll always see it from that point on.

Hence the suggestion of adding the additional UPW to mask the mica's reflectivity a bit more by reducing the degree of mix translucency just a bit. Silver Fire v2.5 N/C w/UPW added will still carry the benefits of the Contrast enhancing, Black floor deepening of Silver Fire / RS-MM-Retro, and you'll not see any reduction in White reproduction quality.

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post #5 of 28 Old 07-27-2015, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Man...ya gotta let me see if I can get you a better quote than $180.00 via my Commercial account. Might save you as much as $70.00. PM me the contact number / size and if I can arrange it, all you'll probably have to do is "Cash & Carry". Or spend the extra saved on Delivery...

Keep in mind Sintra / Komatex in 6 mm will bend quite a bit, so if you have help loading, and you cup / curve the material, it should easily go right into any Mini Van w/no Seats. Removal will simply require the same proceedure in reverse.



I've heard that before..................about a zillion times.






The 1850 is a pure Latex Enamel (discontinued) The 1750 is a Primer Paint...and replaced the 1850. Your all good....I'd use the 1850 all day, everyday iffin' I could.



They are actually pretty close, with an edge to the N/C.

Visual sensitivity to the granularity of mica content varies....those with Lasik 20-5 vison will see a speck of dust on a Screen, while 20-30'ers (...most of us non-altered mutants) can get by with never seeing such. A know fact is....once you see it or its pointed out to you.....you'll always see it from that point on.

Hence the suggestion of adding the additional UPW to mask the mica's reflectivity a bit more by reducing the degree of mix translucency just a bit. Silver Fire v2.5 N/C w/UPW added will still carry the benefits of the Contrast enhancing, Black floor deepening of Silver Fire / RS-MM-Retro, and you'll not see any reduction in White reproduction quality.
I am a former Lasik person, still 20-15 at distance. I'm going to mix up the N/C with extra UPW and practice a little with the still-in-box 2900 sprayer to see if I like the shade. And since I have all the time in the world I will mix up the colorant and think about that extra 2 ounces.

Sent PM BTW.

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #6 of 28 Old 07-27-2015, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Photo 1: Horizontal and vertical aluminum frame members. Dual flanges will hold the sintra screen.
Photo 2: Cut interior corner bevels in flanges
Photo 3: Removing flanges from vertical member above screen area. This end will be attached to hinge mounted on ceiling. Screen will fold up and latch when not in use.
Photo 4: Side view of unpainted horizontal and vertical frame members
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Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #7 of 28 Old 07-27-2015, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Photo 5: Bottom corner connectors
Photo 6: Top corner connectors
Photo 7: Top corner assembly
Photo 8: Spring loaded latch to hold frame against ceiling. I use two anchored in joists, each a third the screen width from the corners
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Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #8 of 28 Old 07-27-2015, 12:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Some photos are old and poorly focused. My apologies.

Photo 9: Hinge assembly mounted to ceiling in joist
Photo 10: Hinge assembly and vertical member of screen frame
Photo 11: Screen down
Photo 12: Screen latched to ceiling

It's a very white room and the only place the screen could go was in front of a fireplace. I overcame.
Room will be repainted in the coming months and the fireplace resurfaced in some manner. It will never be considered a light controlled room by any means, but our viewing is only at night so the only ambient light is from the PJ itself and the reflections from it.
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Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #9 of 28 Old 07-27-2015, 03:45 PM
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I'm jealous of your ceiling hang "flush-ness".
Looks really clean.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

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post #10 of 28 Old 07-28-2015, 05:53 AM - Thread Starter
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The "flush-ness" took some trial and error. Still doesn't look great but it is just a family rumpus room. Formal (i.e., grown-up's) living room is upstairs and off limits to my AV tinkering. The first 8 photos are of the current 109" screen build. Photos 9-12 are of the current 97" RS-MaxxMudd Retro screen to be replaced. Currently considering black sintra painted with the SF N/C. Got some help locating that.
HCORE likes this.

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #11 of 28 Old 08-24-2015, 08:33 PM
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So what exactly is the silver fire v2.5 n/c recipe? My phone has a difficult time navigating this forum. If someone could post a clear recipe that would be extremely helpful
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post #12 of 28 Old 08-25-2015, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by LogicalThinker101 View Post
So what exactly is the silver fire v2.5 n/c recipe? My phone has a difficult time navigating this forum. If someone could post a clear recipe that would be extremely helpful
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz.


Relative costs:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...ials-cost.html

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post #13 of 28 Old 07-11-2016, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure if I should resurrect this thread. After a hiatus from these boards I seem to have the time, temperament and resources to continue a replacement screen build. Going to look at the paints I purchased previously to check their condition after storing them for a year (two maybe?) in a cold central NY garage. Based on the advice from MM above, I plan to use Silver Fire v2.5 N/C with 8 oz additional UPW. I may add the 2 oz. of colorant if I can satisfactorily mix it and the N/C looks too light. So, are these still the proper ingredients and proportions?

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz.

If so, would I be adding 24 oz. of UPW, or does the 16 oz. listed already account for the additional 8 oz. recommended?

Lastly, there now appears to be a Curbell Plastics near home. Does anyone have any contacts there or have had dealings with them?


I may not Git-R-Done, but I'm gonna to Git-R-Started.

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #14 of 28 Old 07-12-2016, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post
Not sure if I should resurrect this thread. After a hiatus from these boards I seem to have the time, temperament and resources to continue a replacement screen build. Going to look at the paints I purchased previously to check their condition after storing them for a year (two maybe?) in a cold central NY garage.
Unless you let the Paints freeze, if they were sealed, at most a good, slow speed mixing with the Squirrel Cage mixing tool (...which I KNOW you must have...) will get'em up to squirtin' speed.

The Colorant might be more problematical. It tends to separate more and coagulate.

Quote:
Based on the advice from MM above, I plan to use Silver Fire v2.5 N/C with 8 oz additional UPW. I may add the 2 oz. of colorant if I can satisfactorily mix it and the N/C looks too light.
The Rustoleum Silver serves to make a darker Metallic Base that the older Silver Fire mix possessed. Adding the UPW does not overly lighten the shade as much as it serves to mask the Metallic effect.

A little understood fact is that in fact it is not the brightness of the Metallic Silver's Mica that creates the Graininess, but rather the presence of the Black element within the Silver that tends to highlight the lighter areas. (...one does not as easily see the metallic content in the White Pearl..) A small amount of UPW evens out this tendency toward highlighting, by slightly lightening the dark base while barely reducing the reflective qualities of the Mica. This brings both into a closer proximity of balance.

Adding Colorant (3 oz) will help keep the mix a bit darker while the UPW still does it's job.


Quote:
So, are these still the proper ingredients and proportions?

Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl 24 oz.
Rustoleum Metallic Accents – Sterling Silver 16 oz.
Behr 1750 UPW Flat 16 oz.
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based) 16 oz.
Distilled Water 32 oz.

If so, would I be adding 24 oz. of UPW, or does the 16 oz. listed already account for the additional 8 oz. recommended?
You'll note that the Sterling Silver was reduced, the Pearl increased slightly, and the UPW upped from 10 oz to 16 oz in SF2.5-N/C

To even more greatly reduce the potential for observing grain, add the additional 8 Oz UPW....then add Colorant to taste.

Quote:
Lastly, there now appears to be a Curbell Plastics near home. Does anyone have any contacts there or have had dealings with them?


I may not Git-R-Done, but I'm gonna to Git-R-Started.
Sheesh...I had to go back 10 pages in my PMs (500of 'em) to find out your 2 hours out from Rochester, NY.

Curbell is not a Distributor that tends to offer product at Wholesale, so they are not gonna give you the pricing that Laird will if I intervene.

If renting a Truck / Trailer is prohibitively expensive, as well as delivery options (...the latter might surprise you...) then perhaps Curbell is you best hope.

You can almost bet the Wife's virtue they will be ordering from Laird.

But Hope Floats!

I stopped just now to do some checkin' fur ya!

Laird does service your area with deliveries, and I've put in a call on your behalf to get an approximate price for a 5 x 10 cut to order and delivered to the Onieda, NY area.

We just might nail this after all!

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post #15 of 28 Old 07-16-2016, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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The paints all appear to be in good shape. Going to take a stab at mixing the colorant to check those for sure; and because I bought them so I might as well try; and because I have a pork butt on the smoker for another 10 hours. Besides, I may not need it, and if I think I do, may have a source for it premixed.

The frame materials are cleaned off and ready after being stored for a year and a half (aluminum warps less than wood - even poplar) and a large area in garage has been cleared to put the sintra on an "easel" and paint in a temporary paintbooth. Just gotta remember to take some pictures along the way.

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #16 of 28 Old 07-16-2016, 10:28 AM
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Absewlootly........

Make it happen!

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post #17 of 28 Old 07-25-2016, 11:58 AM
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Adhesive for Sintra to Frame?

Hey, Mississippi! (or anyone else)...

What glue do you recommend to secure a Sintra screen to a poplar frame?
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post #18 of 28 Old 07-25-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by videobear View Post
Hey, Mississippi! (or anyone else)...

What glue do you recommend to secure a Sintra screen to a poplar frame?
Anyone else !!!!



PowerGrab Clear....spread out smoothly so as to cover as much of the wood as possible.

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post #19 of 28 Old 07-26-2016, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Anyone else !!!!



PowerGrab Clear....spread out smoothly so as to cover as much of the wood as possible.
Well...you might've got run over by a bus, or be in Tahiti or something. Thanks, MM!
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post #20 of 28 Old 07-26-2016, 08:28 AM
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Hello,

Noob question. What do you recommend I paint with these formulas of paint? Should I buy a kit like from Carl's with flexiwhite material then paint it?

Thanks
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post #21 of 28 Old 07-26-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Lemon View Post
Hello,

Noob question. What do you recommend I paint with these formulas of paint? Should I buy a kit like from Carl's with flexiwhite material then paint it?

Thanks
Hi Brian!

Welcome to AVS's DIY Screen Forum!

The Flexi-White material makes an excellent Canvass. But the Kits are more oriented to those who need / want an Aluminum Tube Frame that sets up / breaks down.

Almost everyone makes their own Frame if the screen is meant for Indoor use.

Another option is a Silver Ticket Matte White in the size you want, as it comes with a very nice Black Velour Frame. You can reverse the material, spray, and then reverse it again and have a Custom Surfaced Screen with a premium Black Frame.

Here is an example:
https://www.amazon.com/STR-169120-Si...dp/B00CYLOTPK/

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post #22 of 28 Old 04-04-2019, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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This feels like a lifetime ago, but I just reread the thread on my the screen build that fell to the wayside. I need a Spring project and this may do nicely. And the garage is mostly empty. Can anyone point me to the current best-est paint formula?

Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
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post #23 of 28 Old 04-05-2019, 05:34 AM
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This feels like a lifetime ago, but I just reread the thread on my the screen build that fell to the wayside. I need a Spring project and this may do nicely. And the garage is mostly empty. Can anyone point me to the current best-est paint formula?
Well, if the room is the same as 3 years ago....and the Projector is the same as 3 years ago....and the Sprayer you had 3 years ago is still in your possession, then really nothing has changed if you want the best possible results.

Silver Fire and Black Flame (...in one version to the next...) has sat atop the hill for over 14 years for a reason.....done correctly they surpass every other Painted application across so many levels it just isn't going to be replaced by anything simpler. You can use a basic Flat Grey of varying shades dependent upon how many Lumen your PJ produces. However in most every case, while deepening Blacks you get a crushing of detail and a reduction in White vibrancy. Adding an extra component or two to a given Grey can help, but it's almost always guesswork for many.

Commercial "DIY" Screen Paint mixes are usually very expensive, and bereft of actual valid published results....just hyped by their Sellers on YouTube / Ebay /...and now even on Amazon. But you cannot...never can get any real validation as to results. Except for the few posted up on this Forum, which are almost universally negative.

On here, regarding Silver Fire, such testimonials abound....and the positive ones outnumber the negatives by 100-1. But I think you already know that.

All that said, if you just desire some simple, dependable results, so simple you can go to the store, have a Can of paint tinted and come home and roll it onto a wall....Hey...this is the place to get the recommendations and instructions you need. And absolutely, newer, High Lumen / ultra High Contrast PJs can get along / get by with less complex DIY screen solutions. And for many if not most, they will still impress the uninitiated quite handily.

However, and being as unbiased as possible , I have seen what advanced Paint formulas can offer up to those owning even the most expensive Projectors, and they is always an incredible increase in performance above a Matte White screen, and substantial improvements over most Mfg ALR screens as well. And when one adds in the savings and satisfaction garnered by doing a great DIY Screen......well, the feelings one gets can be almost dizzying. And that is what makes is also be so much fun!

Now then...the time has come to decide just how much performance and satisfaction you want for the dollars you spend. Relate any changes you have had occur (PJ - Room - etc.) and I'll respond accordingly with a DIY Mix solution ideally suited for now...and the future.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #24 of 28 Old 04-05-2019, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post
The paints all appear to be in good shape. Going to take a stab at mixing the colorant to check those for sure; and because I bought them so I might as well try; and because I have a pork butt on the smoker for another 10 hours. Besides, I may not need it, and if I think I do, may have a source for it premixed.

The frame materials are cleaned off and ready after being stored for a year and a half (aluminum warps less than wood - even poplar) and a large area in garage has been cleared to put the sintra on an "easel" and paint in a temporary paintbooth. Just gotta remember to take some pictures along the way.

BTW...if you have kept the paint sealed...and that Pork Butt is done cookin', you just might already be most of the way home! A careful and thorough slow mixing can recombine the separated components....so I'd check that out for sure!

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post #25 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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All the paint looks to be in good shape, except the Behr 1850. It looked more like white oatmeal when stirred. The others stirred together nicely, and appear full (no volume loss from evaporation). Silver, pearl, poly, and 1850 photos attached. The tubes of colorant look fine as well. I will be picking up the PPG Diamond flat in the next few days:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/PPG-Diam...0-04/304343528

The SF mix has changed since my initial planning. Looks like more white pearl and less sterling silver. The only difference between the 2.0 and 3.0 is the amount of Liquitex basics gold. With the reduced silver, do you still recommend additional white (PPG) to reduce potential graininess?

Reading over past posts in this thread, I got a little confused over the following discussion of SF N/C:

Quote:
You'll note that the Sterling Silver was reduced, the Pearl increased slightly, and the UPW upped from 10 oz to 16 oz in SF2.5-N/C
To even more greatly reduce the potential for observing grain, add the additional 8 Oz UPW....then add Colorant to taste.
Based on that comment, if I use the N/C mix, can colorant simply be added to it, or do you need to mix the proper v2.5 proportions of viscosity and base components based on the chosen colorant shade (2.0, 3.0, etc)? The v2.5 has Basics Gold while N/C doesn't.

Next up will be practicing with the still in the box Graco 3900 and sourcing the Sintra.
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Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?

Last edited by Adult Beverage; 04-09-2019 at 07:22 AM.
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post #26 of 28 Old 04-09-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Adult Beverage View Post
All the paint looks to be in good shape, except the Behr 1850. It looked more like white oatmeal when stirred. The others stirred together nicely, and appear full (no volume loss from evaporation). Silver, pearl, poly, and 1850 photos attached. The tubes of colorant look fine as well. I will be picking up the PPG Diamond flat in the next few days:

I've never seen the like of the Behr Cottage Cheese. I would take it back for a refund if it was like that upon opening for the first time. All they can say is "No", and if so...let them dispose of the crud.



Quote:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/PPG-Diam...0-04/304343528

The SF mix has changed since my initial planning. Looks like more white pearl and less sterling silver. The only difference between the 2.0 and 3.0 is the amount of Liquitex basics gold. With the reduced silver, do you still recommend additional white (PPG) to reduce potential graininess?

Not so much Graininess as the potential to see the occasion teeny tiny sparkle if the PJ has lots of Lumen output. It is simply an assurance factor.


Quote:
Reading over past posts in this thread, I got a little confused over the following discussion of SF N/C:

You'll note that the Sterling Silver was reduced, the Pearl increased slightly, and the UPW upped from 10 oz to 16 oz in SF2.5-N/C
To even more greatly reduce the potential for observing grain, add the additional 8 Oz UPW....then add Colorant to taste.

Based on that comment, if I use the N/C mix, can colorant simply be added to it, or do you need to mix the proper v2.5 proportions of viscosity and base components based on the chosen colorant shade (2.0, 3.0, etc)? The v2.5 has Basics Gold while N/C doesn't.

You can add colorant to N/C I will be editing out that older Table soon. BTW, the Gold was in the other Formula since there was a higher amount of Silver....silver pushes a bit of Blue, and the Gold was there to correct that.


Quote:
Next up will be practicing with the still in the box Graco 3900 and sourcing the Sintra.

Practice makes perfect. If you like, send me a PM with your adress and I can help source the Sintra for you at the best price possible.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #27 of 28 Old 04-10-2019, 05:19 AM
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tagging along ..
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post #28 of 28 Old 04-10-2019, 06:19 AM
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tagging along ..

Tag....your it! Now git'ter dun!

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