Carl's Ambient Light Rejecting? - Page 10 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 54Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #271 of 294 Old 10-30-2017, 06:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Funny how people have different opinions.

Check this out. ALR produces awfull tint, and whites are completelly messed up,not to mention hot spot and vignetting, along with bad viewing angles.

Fyi,I just threw a white bed sheet over left side.
Gabre is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #272 of 294 Old 11-24-2017, 10:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Hi,
I got Sony VPL-45 and considering to buy a paint ALR or this Carl's material.
I see that whites are dimmed also on the sample I buyed of this paint at my store.
But blacks are better and also the dark scenes.
So what do you recommend?
radek0582 is offline  
post #273 of 294 Old 11-24-2017, 11:19 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,090
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3688 Post(s)
Liked: 1703
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabre View Post
Funny how people have different opinions.

Check this out. ALR produces awfull tint, and whites are completelly messed up,not to mention hot spot and vignetting, along with bad viewing angles.

Fyi,I just threw a white bed sheet over left side.
Opinions are one thing.....the eyes do not lie.

The real issue is how some refer people to this particular material for the wrong reasons: "Easy"...."Affordable"..."Effective" when asked about DIY ALR choices. But they also seem to willfully ignore the well known caveats.

I've suggested otherwise, because of the above stated issues and others too, for quite a while, but usually get shouted down (..yeah, that CAN happen.. )

Now don't take me wrong...I'm a advocate and supporter of Carl's, but there a few items that are sold that just do not measure up to the standards I have become accustomed to adhering to and suggesting to be considered as a "minimum" purveyor of image quality.

radek0582, there are DIY paints that can, and will do better. Some advanced, truly higher performance paints cost more, and require spraying, but some DIY paints that cost less than Carl's ALR do as good or better a job of ALR'ing but do it without the Color Shifts and dulling Whites. And...they'll not have the hot spotting, severe vignetting, or bad viewing angles. And some of those can be rolled on.

That's about all I can / should say on a Thread dedicated to Carl's ALR, so judge your decision making process accordingly.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #274 of 294 Old 11-24-2017, 11:25 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,090
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3688 Post(s)
Liked: 1703
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Gabre,

Last Mid-June you posted a much more favorable evaluation of C-ALR.

Was it the employment of a White Reference material (Bed Sheet) that opened your eyes, or the inability to calibrate in an except-able image?

That information would be an important addition...and help to others when considering their options.

radek0582,
What Paint did you buy / have Tinted?

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #275 of 294 Old 11-24-2017, 11:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
The upper area of the comparison images appears very closely matched in many if those pictures, so it looks like the projector isn't ideally positioned for a lght-fighting screen this aggressive..the projector appears to be mounted too close and a little too high (or screen screen is a little too low).

A screen or paint with a wider viewing-cone (sadly also means a less aggressive light-fighter) can pair with more forgiveness despite a non-ideal projector mounting position. A lighter-grey screen or a dark-colored screen with less gain can be more forgiving.


The vpl45 is a solidly bright projector that's capable of a 1.5:1 throw-ratio without issues, so pairing it along with a reasonably-sized screen can work very well with Carl's ALR material while still providing a very bright image.
What screen-size are you aiming for and about how close or far back can you mount the projector?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-24-2017 at 12:31 PM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #276 of 294 Old 11-24-2017, 11:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
Gabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Mississippi man, I share your opinion now after using it for a while.

And for my change of opinion, simply couldn't get the image to my liking.

When I first got it,I was impressed with black levels and boost in contrast. But after using it, drawbacks keep coming in more and more.
Simply; whites, details in shadow, dimmer image, hot spotting, and vignetting... To many to count.

Too many to count... I have to work on reflections in the room.
I am using white screen now, and I'm back to problems with washed out image at bright scenes

Will try going back to ALR and make my decision...
I did try a smaller light grey, and that might be actually a good balance.
Gabre is online now  
post #277 of 294 Old 11-24-2017, 04:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
The paint sample I have is Evo High Contrast (or Evo MIXPAINT).
My projector is about 5 meters (16 feet) from the wall and screen size I would like to have is 120-130 inches.
Maybe I have to add some black borders to my screen. It is currently just the wall painted with gray matt paint.
radek0582 is offline  
post #278 of 294 Old 11-25-2017, 06:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
As I discovered for now the best results for this pj (VPL-45) are on max 125 inches from about 15-16 feet, since the white is strong enough (the lumens) and black or contrast is still good (while using my sample EVO paint) . Ofcourse on high lamp mode the white is also stronger than on low mode. On high mode maybe there could be 10 inches more (130-135").

Last edited by radek0582; 11-25-2017 at 06:28 AM.
radek0582 is offline  
post #279 of 294 Old 11-25-2017, 12:35 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by radek0582 View Post
As I discovered for now the best results for this pj (VPL-45) are on max 125 inches from about 15-16 feet, since the white is strong enough (the lumens) and black or contrast is still good (while using my sample EVO paint) . Ofcourse on high lamp mode the white is also stronger than on low mode. On high mode maybe there could be 10 inches more (130-135").
Would you also be able to create a new thread about this Evo paint you used?
I don't believe there is one yet, and that could be a cool place to talk about this paint more in-depth while also making it easier for others to search that brand/name to ask questions about it from real users like you.

EDIT: It would also be a good place for posting comparison pictures of your Evo paint sample next to other paints or samples you are able to put together.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415

Last edited by Ftoast; 11-26-2017 at 05:48 AM.
Ftoast is offline  
post #280 of 294 Old 11-26-2017, 05:45 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,090
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3688 Post(s)
Liked: 1703
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Would you also be able to create a new thread about this Evo paint you used?
I don't believe there is one yet, and that could be a cool place to talk about this paint more in-depth while also making it easier for others to search that brand/name to ask questions about it from real users like you. It would also be a good place for posting pictures of your new Evo screen.
Read a little closer....

radek0582 has only tried a sample of the Evo, and found it had properties he did not care for. He doesn't have a "Evo Screen" and he's asking fo ither suggestions. As for Evo paint, it's really just another attempt at someone trying to market another high contrast Screen paint, and the only examples to be seen "anywhere" are again...you guessed it....on YouTube. It apparently has managed to get some shelf space abroad, (...we know not where as of yet...) but without any real vetting and effective evaluation, it seems to be a bit of a moot, or rather premature in the least, request to ask for a Thread to be authored on a product whose only singular exposure has garnered a negative evaluation.

All that may change of course should radek0582 decide to use the Evo paint for his full sized screen, of course. He does state that the appearance of the Whites look somewhat better when Full Lamp mode is used....as might well be expected.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #281 of 294 Old 11-26-2017, 11:41 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Yes, currently I just got the sample of that Evo and consider buying the 0,5 L to paint 120" screen. The costs are about 300$ for half-liter at my store. They say that one painting is enough for 120 inches screen.
When I buy that Evo and paint, for sure I will make some thread with pictures.
radek0582 is offline  
post #282 of 294 Old 11-26-2017, 03:32 PM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,090
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3688 Post(s)
Liked: 1703
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
$300 per 1/2 liter !!!!! That's $600.00 a Quart!

And some few talk about the cost of Silver Fire or Black Flame as being "high".

Of course they say you can paint a 120"er with 1/2 Liter...(16 oz) once in your stuck...and all you can do is cough up more money.

I tell ya something...you could "US" source every component for Silver Fire, and pay for International Economy shipping...all the Duties and Taxes, and you'd wind up with 3 QUARTs ( 2.8 Liters ) of paint...pay less than $300.00, and have more than enough to share with another person and cut your lower expenses by another 1/2 anyway!

Man...I feel sick. I shipped a lot of paint to exotic locations abroad in 3 qt quantities, and it never amounted to being more than $300+, or if so, only a few dollars extra.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #283 of 294 Old 11-27-2017, 02:57 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
Silver Fire is also a good paint? What about Black Widow, which I read about somewhere on this forum?
Today I will take some photos with my EVO sample and post them in new thread.
radek0582 is offline  
post #284 of 294 Old 11-27-2017, 03:59 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by radek0582 View Post
Silver Fire is also a good paint? What about Black Widow, which I read about somewhere on this forum?
Today I will take some photos with my EVO sample and post them in new thread.
SilverFire can be a good paintmix; it's roughly the same gain as Carl's ALR but a lighter shade of grey which means SilverFire doesn't hold blacks as deep against ambient light but it does hold brightness higher when viewed off-center.

BlackWidow can also be a good paintmix; it's lower-gain than Carl's ALR and lighter-grey than both Carl's and SilverFire which means it doesn't fight light as aggressively as either of those but it holds better brightness uniformity even with a shorter-than-ideal throw-ratio, and it holds the most consistent brightness off-center.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #285 of 294 Old 11-27-2017, 01:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
So I think, maybe I would try the Silver Fire (Black Flame).
Just need the ingredients.
radek0582 is offline  
post #286 of 294 Old 11-27-2017, 02:49 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by radek0582 View Post
So I think, maybe I would try the Silver Fire (Black Flame).
Just need the ingredients.
If you haven't already visited it, here's the official SilverFire thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-di...-2-thread.html

The first post in there lists the ingredients, amounts used, and where to find them as well as other important information for mixing it up. Feel free to ask questions if anything is confusing or unclear.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #287 of 294 Old 11-28-2017, 11:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 30
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 4
I wonder where I could buy the ingredients.
Maybe I will choose Silver grey instead of Black widow coz of probably deeper blacks. I want to watch movies without any lights, but I dont have dedicated theater room (light blue walls and ceiling, wooden floor).
I am in Europe, so dont know if there could be some proper shops with exactly that ingrediets.

Or I will look for recipe for Black Pearl, I like that screen results.

Last edited by radek0582; 11-28-2017 at 01:15 PM.
radek0582 is offline  
post #288 of 294 Old 07-17-2018, 12:52 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Does Carl's ALR need to be raised above the frame? I read it's not completely opaque. Carl's instructions don't say you need to, but they are also not specifically for the ALR.
Tuomas Salokanto is offline  
post #289 of 294 Old 07-17-2018, 12:00 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomas Salokanto View Post
Does Carl's ALR need to be raised above the frame? I read it's not completely opaque. Carl's instructions don't say you need to, but they are also not specifically for the ALR.
It's pretty opaque (though thin enough that strong sunlight can somewhat come through if you're trying to cover an otherwise uncovered window during the day).
You don't want screen material (especially light-fighting or high-gain material) resting against a frame's internal/middle supports or anything like that because those can ever so slightly push out a line or bump against the screen which can show particularly during brighter projected scenes because the screen isn't laying perfectly smooth and flat with that slight bump/line pushing against it.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #290 of 294 Old 07-18-2018, 03:42 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
It's pretty opaque (though thin enough that strong sunlight can somewhat come through if you're trying to cover an otherwise uncovered window during the day).
You don't want screen material (especially light-fighting or high-gain material) resting against a frame's internal/middle supports or anything like that because those can ever so slightly push out a line or bump against the screen which can show particularly during brighter projected scenes because the screen isn't laying perfectly smooth and flat with that slight bump/line pushing against it.
I was planning to use little thinner middle supports for this. But still it would rest against outer frame. I don't want very thick border so I bought 2" felt tape, so it won't cover the whole 4" frame. Will this be a problem? Basically my plan is this: carlofet.com/images/howTo/cross-view.png (sorry, not allowed to link) It's suggested there but I don't want to rely on one opinion! Thanks!
Tuomas Salokanto is offline  
post #291 of 294 Old 07-18-2018, 05:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 6,576
Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2688 Post(s)
Liked: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomas Salokanto View Post
I was planning to use little thinner middle supports for this. But still it would rest against outer frame. I don't want very thick border so I bought 2" felt tape, so it won't cover the whole 4" frame. Will this be a problem? Basically my plan is this: carlofet.com/images/howTo/cross-view.png (sorry, not allowed to link) It's suggested there but I don't want to rely on one opinion! Thanks!
Instead of using a wider border or a stand-off around the frame's front, would you prefer to build the frame with the edges and supports rotated to look thin while standing farther off the wall (like a shadow-box instead of a picture frame)?
This is another pretty common way to build a frame, but it does automatically mean the screen will stick out from the wall about 2.5"-3.5" (depending if you use 1x3's or 1x4"s).

Or you might be able to router or sand a flat/picture-frame style frame's edges so they slope inward/downward toward the middle and get thicker at the outer edges like a built in stand-off...kind of like trim or window frames/trim are commonly designed.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is offline  
post #292 of 294 Old 07-18-2018, 06:34 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 3
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Instead of using a wider border or a stand-off around the frame's front, would you prefer to build the frame with the edges and supports rotated to look thin while standing farther off the wall (like a shadow-box instead of a picture frame)?
This is another pretty common way to build a frame, but it does automatically mean the screen will stick out from the wall about 2.5"-3.5" (depending if you use 1x3's or 1x4"s).

Or you might be able to router or sand a flat/picture-frame style frame's edges so they slope inward/downward toward the middle and get thicker at the outer edges like a built in stand-off...kind of like trim or window frames/trim are commonly designed.
I prefer slimmer look. I think I will go with that idea, try to sand the edges inwards to make sure nothing touches the fabric. Good idea, thanks!
Tuomas Salokanto is offline  
post #293 of 294 Old 07-18-2018, 08:14 AM
DIY Granddad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 22,090
Mentioned: 267 Post(s)
Tagged: 6 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3688 Post(s)
Liked: 1703
Send a message via Skype™ to MississippiMan
The amount of reduction (...done perfectly even all around the 3.5" frame...) would have to be at least 1/4" and be at least 2" wide, and still you'd have at least 1.5" at 3/4" high.....and then your Tape will not be sitting flat...... It's not really a workable solution...not nearly so as using Quarter Round as the Stand-off.

What you really need is to make the Frame in the most correct manner possible....on edge using 1x3s for the Perimeter, and 1x3s laid Flat, flush to the rear of the on-edge frame. Then, you can wrap the Black Tape over and around the 3/4" perimeter edge. You don't need to sand or plane down the inside edge of a 1x3...it will be fully covered by the Tape anyway.

That is how I would advise you do it, because that is how I would do it...and I've done more than a few in that manner.

.....but that's me...and I don't like poor results.

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
HAS Advanced Audio and Imaging Solutions...Audio Transducers & Projection Screen Coatings
MississippiMan is online now  
post #294 of 294 Old 07-26-2018, 09:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
Gabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 569
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked: 71
If theres anyone from Canada reading here, I wanna sell mine, possibly with frame that I made....
Gabre is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Screen Section

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off